|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:They're almost certainly going to revisit this, since *everyone* else in the world is already doing boosters. Since Im a computer toucher and have returned to isolating I feel good that they'll approve boosters by the time my 8mos past 2nd dose have passed. If not, "This is my first shot" seems to unlock those doors. Are they? I can't think of any countries doing third boosters outside of the super old and immunocompromised/cancer patients, etc...
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 01:43 |
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Sorry to all the essential workers being thrown into the pit of Moloch. Homers can kiss my gasping rear end
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:36
|
|
|
Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Are they? I can't think of any countries doing third boosters outside of the super old and immunocompromised/cancer patients, etc... Fair. Israel is offering boosters to everyone, rest of the world is still doing old/immunocompromised.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:36
|
|
|
Yikes, the FDA vote against was 16 to 2, basically overwhelmingly turning down EUA of boosters for the general population. The FDA advisers criticized Pfizer for presenting data that was not peer reviewed nor previously submitted for FDA review, and for conflating "protection" with the presence of antibodies, which would be a massive oversimplification. Apparently the data they presented showed that the 2 dose regimen is still extremely effective at preventing severe illness in the general population, with the exception of old or immunocompromised people. They then voted unanimously for EUA boosters for old people and other at risk groups, apparently the data showed a clear benefit there but not in most other adults.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Fair. Israel is offering boosters to everyone, rest of the world is still doing old/immunocompromised. Yeah Israel is the one exception. It's also not guaranteed everyone else does, or does at the same time. A lot of places outside of the US/Israel didn't follow the shot schedule the same way. Like up here in Canada the average time between doses was 2-4 months, we mixed AZ and mRNA, hell we used the two mRNA shots interchangeably for most of the summer. The effects on immunity could vary by a fair bit and it wouldn't really make sense to immediately jump on the Israel data and assume it'll follow the same trajectory everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
If in most people boosters really aren't more effective than 2 doses after 8 months then that's actually really good news.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:If in most people boosters really aren't more effective than 2 doses after 8 months then that's actually really good news. Not if the efficacy of two doses at eight months is itself not great.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:52
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Not if the efficacy of two doses at eight months is itself not great. That's fair, more specifically the FDA pointed out that the efficacy was already really great at 8 months, but not if you're old.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:If in most people boosters really aren't more effective than 2 doses after 8 months then that's actually really good news. "" posted:In a presentation Friday, Dr. Sharon Elroy-Preiss of Israel’s Health Ministry argued that if officials there had not begun distributing boosters at the end of July, the nation likely would have exceeded its hospital capacity. Health officials began to see a trend, she said, of individuals in their 40s and 50s who were fully vaccinated become critically ill with Covid. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/17/fda-panel-begins-voting-on-pfizers-covid-booster-doses-rejecting-shots-for-general-public.html I know I'm Veruca Salt'ing here, but I WANT IT I WANT IT
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:01
|
|
|
It's very likely that non-olds don't need the boost. Simpson's paradox is hard at work in all these efficacy reports, illustrated very nicely in this worked example showing (i) you have to stratify by age to understand what's going on, and (ii) the boosters really do help old people and don't really do anything for young people: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-new-israeli-data-say-about-effect-of-vaccines-boosters-vs-death-critical-severe-disease. It's based on the Israeli data. Also lol at the goons already scheming to get an explicitly non-FDA approved COVID prophylactic. Where have we seen that kind of behavior before??
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:06
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:Yikes, the FDA vote against was 16 to 2, basically overwhelmingly turning down EUA of boosters for the general population. The FDA advisers criticized Pfizer for presenting data that was not peer reviewed nor previously submitted for FDA review, and for conflating "protection" with the presence of antibodies, which would be a massive oversimplification. Apparently the data they presented showed that the 2 dose regimen is still extremely effective at preventing severe illness in the general population, with the exception of old or immunocompromised people. I posted in the CSPAM thread but to clarify this. It's an advisory panel made of a bunch of different "experts" raging from University Professors to some members of different HHS Agencies: https://www.fda.gov/advisory-commit...isory-committee They vote to provide recommendations on the EUA/Full approval for vaccine related products. In this case the 3rd booster from Pfizer. Hilariously enough the FDA's CBER Director, Peter Marks (the guy who actually approves the booster) reminded the committee that the FDA does not need to follow their recommendations. I tried to find some stats on how often the FDA follows the recommendations and it's around ~75%. The most recent big time the agency ignored the advisory committee's recommendations was when they approved the Alzheimer's drug.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:09
|
|
|
It’s an advisory of an advisory. Comirnaty is a fully approved pharmaceutical product. Doctors can and do use their knowledge of medicine and their patients to prescribe drugs off-label all the time. One fifth of all prescriptions in the U.S. are written for off-label uses.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:16
|
|
|
Big City Drinkin posted:It's very likely that non-olds don't need the boost. Simpson's paradox is hard at work in all these efficacy reports, illustrated very nicely in this worked example showing (i) you have to stratify by age to understand what's going on, and (ii) the boosters really do help old people and don't really do anything for young people: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-new-israeli-data-say-about-effect-of-vaccines-boosters-vs-death-critical-severe-disease. It's based on the Israeli data. Good call out, but deaths aren't the only metric to consider given the prevalence of long covid in even mild infections. I'm not worried that I need a booster to not die, or stay out of the hospital. My best bet there is to stay healthy and exercise. Avoiding long cv is my big goal, at least until there are some decent anti-virals on the market.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:40
|
|
|
Why would you get the vaccine when you are the picture of health? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:42
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Avoiding long cv is my big goal, at least until there are some decent anti-virals on the market.  Also avoiding making my newborn sick with it. The NICU nurse in the healthcare stories thread posted an X-Ray of a severe covid kid’s lungs a few weeks ago and got a litany of “holy gently caress” responses. I can’t read X-Rays but would like healthcare professionals not to say “holy gently caress” if they ever see test results from my kid.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:50
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izbLrN41BBA
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 22:51
|
|
|
so how are those schools doing?
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2021 23:41
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:They're almost certainly going to revisit this, since *everyone* else in the world is already doing boosters. Rest of the "First World" you mean? I can assure you Latin America has absolutely not granted 3rd doses to anyone, including olds/immunocompromised. They haven't even finished vaccinating eligible adults. I don't think they've even approved 12-17 year olds, even, and at least the Mexican president said they're not going to vaccinate children under 12, because Big Pharma is bad or something (I think they don't want to spend money). And when epidemiologists are saying like 70-80% of the world has not had a single dose, I'm not sure who you're referring to
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 00:12
|
|
|
ben shapino posted:so how are those schools doing? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 00:14
|
|
|
Harminoff posted:My town decided to go maskless this year. A kid in middle school died from covid last week. Now they are doing masks again (for the next 3 weeks at least) kind of grim it had to come to that. "let's not intentionally kill any kids for a few weeks"
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:1500 people died of-or-with-Covid today… in Florida alone And that number from Florida probably isn't even the real number
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 00:39
|
|
|
Got my Pfizer booster today and am so grateful. I SO HOPE that a year from now this thread gets back to like page 6 etc Please please
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 00:59
|
|
|
When they’re talking about approving boosters are they referring to a 3rd shot of the original vaccine or giving people something that has been tailored to newer variants?
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:06
|
|
|
I believe just third of regular. Haven't read about any new vaccines approved here in the us.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:10
|
|
|
gay picnic defence posted:When they’re talking about approving boosters are they referring to a 3rd shot of the original vaccine or giving people something that has been tailored to newer variants? They’re talking about the former. The latter is in clinical trials in various forms, not under FDA discussion yet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:10
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Not if the efficacy of two doses at eight months is itself not great. https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1429878195420024832 An extremely long Twitter thread about exactly this. TLDR - efficacy against severe illness is still holding up although against moderate (and possibly asymptomatic) is fading, and fading faster for mRNA than for AstraZeneca. Also as official FRONTLINE MEDICAL STAFF - i.e. I point people at chairs in a vaccination clinic - I apparently qualify for a booster, so that'll be fun.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:17
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1429878195420024832 I'm gonna finagle my way into a booster, don't get me wrong, but "these two extrapolations cross in the future" just ain't a headline.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
So what Im seeing is "go get hosed up on more vaccines all the time"
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:56
|
|
|
Lord Decimus Barnacle posted:Now that 5G has been rolled out all over the nation, Biden is waiting for the deep state to signal. and witha flip of the switch -boom- instant giant swollen balls for every vaccinated man jokes on him I already got a couple of grapefruits hanging. ladies love my huge balls
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
My second shot was a 3 and a half day humdinger. Wonder what a third booster will feel like ^^^^im just here waiting like a chump for the switch to flip
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
These are Pfizer boosters only by the way. Moderna is still up for discussion at some nebulous future date. Same with J&J folks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:07
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Good call out, but deaths aren't the only metric to consider given the prevalence of long covid in even mild infections. I'm not worried that I need a booster to not die, or stay out of the hospital. My best bet there is to stay healthy and exercise. That page also looks at serious and critical cases; when you split up the age groups people younger than 60 saw basically no benefit to a booster when it came to serious, critical, or deadly infection. They saw massive benefits from the primary 2 doses, but not from a booster. The page doesn't look at mild or asymptomatic cases but there's reason to believe that this trend would hold for those classifications as well, e.g. that a booster probably wouldn't be beneficial for most people
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:09
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Oh man. Making conclusions based on questionable extrapolations like that is just very bad practice. I don't think anyone is saying that Pfizer is definitely less protection than AZ v infection, just that it may possibly become so based on the trajectories. I haven't finished reading through the thread, but I'd like to note that this part is definitely incorrect: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1429878213086482434 "Leaky" vs "all-or-nothing" vaccine processes do have implications for population-level dynamics and long-term attack rates, but they definitely don't show up as declining vaccine efficacy (at least not on this scale of time). Vaccine efficacy is almost always defined and modeled over short intervals of time (or as an instantaneous risk with survival analysis models). That goes double for looking at changes in VE over time! E: The quoted CS professor's explanation is nonsense because either way more and more people are going to getting COVID as exposures continue, same with unvaccinated people. VE is just the ratio of the rates at which that happens. Stickman fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Sep 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:13
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1438661912363950080
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:These are Pfizer boosters only by the way. Moderna is still up for discussion at some nebulous future date. Same with J&J folks. The agency doesn't have to have an advisory committee discussion over every approval. I doubt they'll have one for Moderna if Pfizer's booster is approved.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:23
|
|
|
Why are they rolling this contagious guy out without a mask on? Did they get into the ambulance with him like that? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:27
|
|
|
rt4 posted:Why are they rolling this contagious guy out without a mask on? Did they get into the ambulance with him like that?
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:28
|
|
|
Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:https://twitter.com/JoeMyGod/status/1439010557034598401?s=20 This guy sux
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 01:43 |
|
|
Stickman posted:E: The quoted CS professor's explanation is nonsense because either way more and more people are going to getting COVID as exposures continue, same with unvaccinated people. VE is just the ratio of the rates at which that happens.  It degrades the “only 0.00000000042069% of vaccinated persons have tested positive!” numbers that the usual suspects were fond of repeating till recently, but those numbers were always worthless.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2021 02:30
|
|