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Chaotic Flame posted:I would reconsider trying to use an offer to negotiate a party bump at your current place, especially as someone so new. This thread loves to talk about it putting a target on your back, lack of loyalty, etc. but if you're only six months in, I REALLY can't see that working in your favor.
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Sep 18, 2021 03:08
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Vegetable posted:This is a bad idea IMO. It shows that you've been actively interviewing even after starting a new role with them. Even if they match or surpass the offer you'll have a target board on your back.
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Sep 18, 2021 06:05
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I have an offer from Amazon - my first FAANG offer ever. Without any negotiation on my part, it is worth roughly 35% more than my current compensation. I want to ask for more. Help me please: Current situation: I get a base salary and a profit share bonus with a 5 year vest of 20% per year. However! I actually quit after several years and was then rehired less than a year later, eliminating my unvested gains and resetting the clock back to zero. I will be eligible for profit share once again at the end of 2022. So this year, I am basically just making my base salary. Amazon doesn't know that - since I quit in March of 2020 and was rehired in April of 2021, my resume lists both employment periods with this one employer as a single uninterrupted stretch with several title increase (e.g. 2019-2020 Junior Chicken Rancher, 2021-present Chicken Rancher). Amazon made an offer that is roughly a 35% increase from my current pay. They only ("only") offered 32 RSU shares over their 4 year vesting schedule. If I say something like "Look, I have partially vested profit share that is roughly equal to [x years of overlapping step functions worth of profit share in line with what my resume implies it would be], I have displayed growth at all of my other jobs, clearly I'm hungry and looking to be my best, help me out here", is that the way to go? It is absolutely false that I have any profit share, since I quit and was rehired and the clock was reset, so if in some weird twist they say "show us your profit sharing plan that proves what you claim", I would absolutely not have anything to go on. That seems unlikely, but to be caught in such a lie would be embarrassing at best. I think, but have to double check the math, that given 5 years of profit share (i.e. if the clock hadn't reset and I was getting the most I could out of the profit share), base+profit share is roughly equal to the Amazon total offer, so not any raise at all. My BATNA is to stay at my current boring job. I dont really want to do that. If they said "we will not budge one inch on this offer" I would take it anyway. The offer letter says it expires on Tuesday. I assume thats boilerplate and I could stretch it out if I wanted. If that's true, then I could sign up for the levels.fyi guaranteed negotiation package which costs $1k and guarantees +$10k in first year pay. Or you all could just tell me what to do. What should I do?
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Sep 19, 2021 15:15
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Happiness Commando posted:I have an offer from Amazon - my first FAANG offer ever. Without any negotiation on my part, it is worth roughly 35% more than my current compensation. I want to ask for more. Help me please: Ask for 15-20% more and accept 0-10% increase in response I guess
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Sep 19, 2021 16:03
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Happiness Commando posted:I have an offer from Amazon - my first FAANG offer ever. Without any negotiation on my part, it is worth roughly 35% more than my current compensation. I want to ask for more. Help me please: You don’t need to tell them why you want more money, just tell them you want more money and be prepared for them to say no. Don’t misrepresent your current pay, you have no real upside for doing so.
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Sep 19, 2021 16:27
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I’m about to accept an offer I’m happy with but the one thing that is throwing a wrench into things is the whole drat pandemic. I won’t have to be on-site til January at the earliest (and who knows they might push that at this rate) but my plan was to rent a small place near the office for the in office days and then commute back home for weekends and 2 wfh days a week. (Plus 4 weeks wfh). However I would have to cross the Canada/US border and with how the border crossings are and having to get covid tests this seems like a real potential hassle. I’m thinking of just accepting and doing the remote work for now and then seeing how it is going both in the work and the covid situation, and if the border is going to be a real problem address it then and possibly look for another local job at that point. I don’t think it would be too hard finding something local so not a major concern. If the border crossing wasn’t a big deal it would be a slam dunk but I can’t relocate the family now and definitely wouldn’t want to be away for long stretches of time. Anyway just thinking out loud here. Perhaps it may turn out that remote works well for most of the time anyway and I only have to come down for 1 week a month or something, which would be fine. Hard to know, it’s a new team. I’m bored of my current work, the pay is low and I’m ready to try something new anyway!
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Sep 19, 2021 17:51
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Happiness Commando posted:What should I do? Stop lying for no reason, for one. Why did you think you needed to give them all that info?
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Sep 19, 2021 19:06
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Lying to FAANG companies is particularly unwise. Anything about you they care to know, they in all probability already know.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:58
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moana posted:I think you misunderstood the poster's use of the word "reconsider". 
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Sep 20, 2021 10:31
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Ugh, I'm so sick of trying to negotiate with this company. Prior to this current role, I turned down two offers because the salary was too low. I told the current recruiter this, and even gave my floor for a new position. I was told it wasn't a problem, went through four interviews, and the offer came in $10,000 under the floor I gave. Why waste everyone's time like this? Time to blacklist this company I think.
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Sep 20, 2021 23:25
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Deadite posted:Ugh, I'm so sick of trying to negotiate with this company. Prior to this current role, I turned down two offers because the salary was too low. I told the current recruiter this, and even gave my floor for a new position. I was told it wasn't a problem, went through four interviews, and the offer came in $10,000 under the floor I gave. Why waste everyone's time like this? Name it so I can blacklist it too
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Sep 20, 2021 23:41
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Several people dunking on me posted:Dont lie, just ask for more money I didn't lie, did ask for more money. Got a 6% increase by saying "Can you help me get to [+25%]?". He clicked around a bit, said "oh, wait, it won't let me... hmm.." And then offered what he could. Maybe he could have done more, maybe not. But the offer went from obscene to obscene so thanks thread.
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Sep 21, 2021 01:26
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Not sure if this is the right thread for this but it's the closest I could think of. Hi negotiation thread. Seeking advice here. My new employer was supposed to pay us Friday. The pay period ended on the 10th. I live in Utah. been doing some reading about Utah labor laws. https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title34/Chapter28/34-28-S3.html?v=C34-28-S3_2014040320140513 quote:
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title34/Chapter28/34-28-S9.html quote:
The pay period ended on the 10th. this seems to say that they now owe me 5% of the late wages extra, with 2.5% going to the state. Is my reading of this correct? I'm extremely pissed off about this and am 100% willing to go into the training zoom call tomorrow and immediately bring this up to my trainer if that's what the right move is. I want my loving money and I'm going to make it a problem until they pay me, and if they owe me extra because of this then they're going to pay me extra. Any help is appreciated, i am extremely poor and do not appreciate my first check being so late.
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Sep 21, 2021 01:32
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empty whippet box posted:Not sure if this is the right thread for this but it's the closest I could think of. Talk to a lawyer
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Sep 21, 2021 01:39
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leper khan posted:Talk to a lawyer I’d start with the appropriate state agency before getting a lawyer involved https://laborcommission.utah.gov/divisions/utah-antidiscrimination-and-labor-uald/wage-claim/
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Sep 21, 2021 01:44
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skipdogg posted:I’d start with the appropriate state agency before getting a lawyer involved If you go to the DOL it will create a shitstorm that will take forever to fix. Simply bringing up that you are thinking about calling the DOL will scare the poo poo out of them. I did some googling and neither the company you work for or the payroll company they use are reporting any widespread I ssues
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Sep 21, 2021 03:45
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Don't attribute to malice what can reasonably be attributed to incompetence. Someone hosed up, ask them what happened and they'll more than likely fix it really quickly. No one wants to deal with DOL.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:43
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Wibla posted:Don't attribute to malice what can reasonably be attributed to incompetence. We've been asking them nicely to fix it for several days now.
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Sep 21, 2021 12:46
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My feeling is that anything they would consider a threat would get you a very nice place in the list of people to get rid of soon, so be careful if you can't afford it. E: but absolutely gently caress them and you should get your money. Just don't get so angry that you end up kicking yourself in the teeth.
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Sep 21, 2021 20:20
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BonHair posted:My feeling is that anything they would consider a threat would get you a very nice place in the list of people to get rid of soon, so be careful if you can't afford it. What he can't afford is to keep working for free I think.
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Sep 21, 2021 20:46
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Coming at this from the other side - im hiring my first person and they disclosed their range where the top end is about 10% less than what i have approved. (An example of never give a number i guess, but also i dont know if he would have made it through screening since our recruiter asks for it to (her words) “make sure shes not wasting my or the candidates time). Assuming i make an offer should I A: offer the low end and expect an acceptance or counter at the top of the range B: offer the top end and expect acceptance (if they countered for more do i get annoyed?) C: offer the budgeted amount which is based on market rate but 10% over their stated top range As far as priorities I dont care about the difference in pay - it makes no impact to my budget. I want to get and retain someone good and dont care if it costs more.
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Sep 21, 2021 21:20
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If you pay them below the pay band it will only be a matter of time until they figure that out at which point they'll become massively resentful and you won't be able to fix the situation because now all raises have to be approved by HR. If it's no skin off your back make sure they are at least inside your budgeted range
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Sep 21, 2021 21:38
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How's that even a question?  There are only upsides with going with option C. Paying people a decent wage is a huge part of getting people to stick around. Offering higher than what they asked for is a big plus and as you already mentioned, doesn't affect your budget anyway. It also short-circuits that onerous and dumb pay negotiation game before it starts, which is cool and good.
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Sep 21, 2021 21:42
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Wibla posted:How's that even a question? You ever hire someone in this situation? HR loves to question you for offering over the applicants requested number.
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Sep 21, 2021 21:45
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spwrozek posted:You ever hire someone in this situation? HR loves to question you for offering over the applicants requested number. Can you not strike a middle ground of offering the candidate C - some value that is above their range? HR saves money, you get an employee that is happy. I think you should definitely start with C. It's not your money so why don't you care if the company saves the 10% and perversely having staff that gets paid more can look good.
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Sep 22, 2021 01:04
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asur posted:Can you not strike a middle ground of offering the candidate C - some value that is above their range? HR saves money, you get an employee that is happy. You totally can and I would personally offer in the salary range where I believe the person should fall in comparison to others on the team (in this case that is option C). HR typically hasn't been a fan of that but once my boss sees it is in the range and signs off things usually go my way. E: the last guy I hired asked for $70K and I offered him $72K. HR was weird about it but he accepted right away.
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Sep 22, 2021 03:47
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Wibla posted:How's that even a question? A few things - and these are questions so take them as such. Not disagreeing, just curious on the threads opinion from the other side of the game. If the answer to offer is always counter offer + x, am i not better off offering what they already said as top of the range just in case of a counter? If i instead offer top of my range (which is 10+% over their top) do i have risk of them countering higher? This is excluding the politics with hr. Also if it matters this is a smallish private company - not a FAANG with rigid pay bands and levels. Tbh the first market rate i got from hr i sent back as bullshit and said change the job description until it meets x (about 25% higher). This was pre interviews. Has anyone experienced the other side where you ask for x and the offer side takes pity and offers you more?
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Sep 22, 2021 04:18
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Keystoned posted:A few things - and these are questions so take them as such. Not disagreeing, just curious on the threads opinion from the other side of the game. It's not uncommon in FAANG. Happened to a friend of mine because he was an idiot. He accepted pretty much on the spot. I would be surprised if they counter offer, but if they do just say no and remind them that you're offering 10% above the top of their range.
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Sep 22, 2021 04:22
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Keystoned posted:A few things - and these are questions so take them as such. Not disagreeing, just curious on the threads opinion from the other side of the game. It depends on what your goals are. If you are solely looking to hire someone at the cheapest possible rate, then you take their offer as the upper bound and try to negotiate down from there. Just like, as prospective employees, we try to force the company to make an offer, and then use that as the lower bound and argue up. Whoever names a number first is anchoring the discussion, and therefore at a disadvantage. When I'm hiring artists for my game, I will sometimes tell them that their prices are too low, and offer them more money than they were asking for. That's because I value my own self-esteem, which would be damaged if I thought I was taking advantage of others. That's an extra goal that throws a wrinkle into the usual negotiation process. Wibla and PIZZA.BAT are making arguments that if you hire the employee at the rate they asked for, they will be unhappy / less productive -- they're trying to get you to extend your goals to not just "hire this person at the lowest rate" but "get the best value for your money". That might entail paying more money to get more value...it's also extraordinarily hard to accurately predict the value return of a new hire.
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Sep 22, 2021 04:27
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Happiness Commando posted:I, did ask for more money. Got +25% the offer went from obscene to obscene so thanks thread. 
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Sep 22, 2021 04:39
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Happiness Commando posted:I didn't lie, did ask for more money. Got a 6% increase by saying "Can you help me get to [+25%]?". He clicked around a bit, said "oh, wait, it won't let me... hmm.." And then offered what he could. Maybe he could have done more, maybe not. But the offer went from obscene to obscene so thanks thread. Congrats as well, add to the OP google sheets link if you're cool with it.
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Sep 22, 2021 04:52
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Keystoned posted:Coming at this from the other side - im hiring my first person and they disclosed their range where the top end is about 10% less than what i have approved. But a subsequent post made me realize their top is 10% below the top of your approved range. Depending on how your approved range aligns with whatever your company uses as pay bands, I could see not just offering your max to whoever you want. Better to have the new employee appropriately placed in their pay range along with their peers with similar responsibilities/experience/abilities. It could also be that you don't have a range at all and just have a number. In that case, I suppose go all out and offer that number to whoever you think the best candidate is. If they ask for more, you can honestly say that you can not give them a higher offer.
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Sep 22, 2021 05:22
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Thanks to this thread I just scored a 54% raise switching jobs. Always negotiate.
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Sep 22, 2021 08:04
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How do I negotiate a better redundancy payout? My job is being made redundant soon, and our payouts are clearly defined in our workplace agreement and are pretty generous (6 months pay plus 2 weeks per year of working there). However HR have calculated my payout at an 80% basis because I just came back from mat leave in July, temporarily working 4 days a week before increasing to full time in January. I tried to increase to full time a few weeks ago and it was approved by HR but then they revoked it. I think this is bullshit because I'm clearly easing back into full time work, I've worked full time for the last six years, and there's $15k difference between an 80% payout and 100%. HR have said they're calculating it based on the time fraction I'm working when I leave, but considering they are restricting how much I can work, it seems blatantly unfair. I don't know if I have a legal leg to stand on, but any tips for getting a fair amount of money would be great. Edit: in Australia if that's relevant Jumpsuit fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 10:21
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Jumpsuit posted:How do I negotiate a better redundancy payout?
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Sep 22, 2021 11:12
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Can you share why you were out? Medical leave? Injured on the job? Maternity/Paternity leave? Caring for a family member? Sabbatical? Everything except the last is probably a protected status in your country. How long did you work there before you took time off
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Sep 22, 2021 11:14
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She said mat leave, which to me screams “talk to a lawyer”.
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Sep 22, 2021 11:44
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It's not related to mat leave or me personally (which would probably make it easier to argue), it's a business wide restructure. Over 200 roles are being removed. University, if that helps. My alternative is just accepting the payout offer, but I feel like I'm leaving money on the table by not fighting for a 100% payout. The policy is indirectly discriminatory to women.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:13
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15k seems like a lawyering amount to me too.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:22
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This is not something you should do alone. Start by talking to your union/employee representative if you have such a thing. If you don't have them or you sense the slightest hint of hesitation from them, talk to a lawyer immediately.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:57
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