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Broken Cog posted:If you kill or harm someone, even in the case of self-defense, you are responsible for those actions, though obviously there are mitigating circumstances. This exchange makes me sad that they could have teed up a Trolley Problem joke in Fatherlands Follies. A slow moving Small World ride is approaching two war criminals with imposed/self-imposed dementia. If you pull the lever, it will allow you to spare them. If you don't, the ride will bonk into them and Ford/Nona will give a generic "ow" sound. The choice is yours
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Sep 17, 2021 17:03
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Broken Cog posted:If you kill or harm someone, even in the case of self-defense, you are responsible for those actions, though obviously there are mitigating circumstances. So intent does factor in then? Like, say, Being a psychologically-vulnerable young woman tormented into performing said killing actions rather than doing them of their own free will? 
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Sep 18, 2021 03:33
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It is kind of insane how much moral ambiguity there is with these psychic wizards and their ability to gently caress with people's brains (INCLUDING their own). How do you even BEGIN to hold these people accountable? These are questions that Psychonauts is clearly not going to answer with anything but jokes and vague hints (such as what Gristol's fate will be), so I think the most we'll ever see is how the affected people feel about it. Like Raz' dad about Nona. I sure hope about DLC for our final missing Otto, I bet there's TONS of delicious shady stuff in there
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Sep 18, 2021 13:06
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Neddy Seagoon posted:So intent does factor in then? Like, say, Being a psychologically-vulnerable young woman tormented into performing said killing actions rather than doing them of their own free will? Only semi-relevant to what you're talking about, but this reminds me that Maligula wasn't a "young woman" when she did what she did, either, any more than Ford was a young man. Nona looks to be very elderly now, 70 or 80 at least. She would've been 50 when poo poo was going down. Psychologically vulnerable, maybe, but she was a grown-rear end woman with more than half a lifetime of experience behind her already.
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Sep 18, 2021 16:58
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Was there a purpose of the clairvoyance on the bacon dude? Most of the ones in the game led to psitanium but that one was just weird.
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Sep 18, 2021 22:45
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Man just loves bacon
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Sep 18, 2021 22:57
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mastajake posted:Was there a purpose of the clairvoyance on the bacon dude? Most of the ones in the game led to psitanium but that one was just weird. I think it's supposed to be a background story thing with the coworker who is in love with him, then they fall in love.
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Sep 18, 2021 23:03
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Okay, thanks. I got that but wondered if I was missing something else.
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Sep 18, 2021 23:14
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Working on collectibles after beating the game. Very, very much enjoyed it. I'm missing 1 figment in the Sensorium though and it's driving me absolutely batty. Did I remember seeing someone link a figment list in spreadsheet format before while I was lurking around before I finished the game? Don't particularly feel like watching a 45m video just to find one treble clef. EDIT: Oh I found it, was only 2 pages back. Real glad someone out in the world had the presence of mind to make a list grouped by figment type. YoshiOfYellow fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 19, 2021 00:07
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LostRook posted:I think it's supposed to be a background story thing with the coworker who is in love with him, then they fall in love. Yeah, postgame he's had his bacon and isn't hungry anymore, and now when he looks at his co-worker he gets the same hearts in his vision that she does when she looks at him 
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Sep 19, 2021 01:13
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Only semi-relevant to what you're talking about, but this reminds me that Maligula wasn't a "young woman" when she did what she did, either, any more than Ford was a young man. Nona looks to be very elderly now, 70 or 80 at least. She would've been 50 when poo poo was going down. Psychologically vulnerable, maybe, but she was a grown-rear end woman with more than half a lifetime of experience behind her already. as i've said before the timeline makes absolutely no sense at all and you probably shouldn't think about it. according to the timeline of the game  the person on the left will age at least 40 years in the next 20, and the person on the right will have a child in 4 years.
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Sep 19, 2021 01:36
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If you bump the gap from 20 years to 30 it works but yeah. Don’t worry about it.
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Sep 19, 2021 01:39
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Villain of Psychonauts 3 is going to be someone with psychic time control powers and who will turn out to have been messing with the timeline for nefarious purposes
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Sep 19, 2021 15:34
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Up until the very end I was expecting another twist where the real villain turns out to be Otto. It's conspicuous that he's the only one of the original 7 where we don't poke around in his head. Then you have the emphasis at the beginning of the game about not rewiring peoples brains, but at the end of the game you're firing up a nasty piece of industrial machinery to make a change to someone's brain, literally drilling a big hole in it. It's loosely implied that using the lathe is part of what created Maligula, it would've been a short hop from there to "Otto created Maligula on purpose way back then, it was all part of his plan!". He's the only one of the 7 that isn't in a bad place at the start of the game, and Ford's comments about seeing things he couldn't before makes way more sense if he's talking about Otto and not Nick from the mailroom. Also the title screen being his weird creepy brain vault, I thought that was going to turn out to be a hint about something. Also also, how did Nick plant the no-snitching posters in Loboto's mind? Just kinda tugging at loose threads here, but I'm thinking this had to be initially planed, but then was cut for some reason.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:09
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CoolCab posted:as i've said before the timeline makes absolutely no sense at all and you probably shouldn't think about it. according to the timeline of the game I was about to be like "wait a minute!" but yeah Frazie and Dion are in their like mid-teens. Unless Augustus is meant to be a really short 19 or 20 year old there.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:11
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King Vidiot posted:I was about to be like "wait a minute!" but yeah Frazie and Dion are in their like mid-teens. Unless Augustus is meant to be a really short 19 or 20 year old there.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:13
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you also see him from nona's perspective and it's exactly the same.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:16
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also i believe there is only a single instance in the entire game where anything changes at all between memory vaults (rather than between mindscapes where people can be radically different). in fatherland follies you see the protesters from Gristol's child perspective for a second and all their signs are changed to BLAH BLAH and PROBLEMS and such, but i interpreted that as being more of a comment on him not bothering to read them rather than an indication that memories are typically so radically warped. i can't think of any other examples where the events in memory vaults aren't completely accurate. clairvoyance seems to show an exaggerated simplification of your function to that person rather than being literally what they see/perceive. people still see you as in your underwear when you're in your underwear, for example.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:23
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You forgot about Loboto's memory vault where he remembers the events of the Rhombus of Ruin as the Psychonauts busting in on him totally unfairly and all wearing radical punk rock costumes. Loboto is admittedly loving bananas though, even compared to someone like Ford. Also to be honest, Nona also has plenty of reasons to be misremembering Augustus as a young kid when Ford reunited them. Her brain was a mess at the time anyway. Misremembering his age is the only logical solution we're going to get for the completely hosed timeline unless Psychonauts 3 involves Otto making a time machine, so might as well just go with that explanation. CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 16:26
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it would legit be more consistant to pretend everyone had some mental block that caused them to pronounce "forty" as "twenty" because that's not the only instance of that inconsistency. cassie and boole maybe looks twenty years older the rest do not. bob has had enough time to become a great uncle. don't think about it, it's just written inconsistant.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:36
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I think I already made this post or similar, but I think the ages of these characters are... Ford and Nona in their 70s, Boole, Cassie and Bob in their 60s (Bob may be in his 50s), Truman in his 40s and Augustus in his 40s or maybe late 30s.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:48
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Loboto also apparently kidnapped Truman, like... literally instantly after he leaves the screen in Psychonauts 1, to the point of already having an evil base set up by morning. ...or I guess he could have already arranged the kidnapping before the first Psychonauts game and then wandered away from that plan to moonlight as Oleander's minion for a while? I dunno.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:54
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he actually confirms the moonlighting thing in a line which is very funny. something like "please don't tell my other boss i'm here  "
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Sep 20, 2021 16:55
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Speaking of vaults, I love, to my knowledge, there's one vault from the first game that is straight up a lie. Many vaults twist context to how they saw it, but Coach's first vault straight up didn't even happen a little bit. He never got let into any military branches, he somehow just willed a memory vault of fake memories into existence for the campers to find.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:01
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yeah but tbf he's supposed to be an insanely powerful psychic, maybe that's something that high level operatives can do. we see that this is explicitly outside of gristol's ability but he's not psychic so that might be consistent. it's also great because in that memory he has enormous legs lol
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Sep 20, 2021 17:03
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CoolCab posted:it would legit be more consistant to pretend everyone had some mental block that caused them to pronounce "forty" as "twenty" because that's not the only instance of that inconsistency. cassie and boole maybe looks twenty years older the rest do not. bob has had enough time to become a great uncle. I think the real answer is probably contradicting script drafts welded together. There's probably at least two at work considering how the Interns come-and-go from the story like they've always been there, and probably minor revisions-upon-revisions over the years the game has sat in development. If you read up on the development, there's a point where they cut boss fights due to a lack of funding until Microsoft bought them up, and there's probably more incidental content that got cut or pared back besides.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:18
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I assumed that Gristol is the one who kidnapped Truman and he only hired Loboto to do the whole brain switcheroo. Neither Gristol nor Loboto are psychic (or at least Loboto hasn't been since childhood) so presumably Gristol just relied on Nick Johnsmith being well liked to get close and drug him or something. The Psychonauts are working off the assumption that Loboto was the one to do the kidnapping but I don't see how he could have and even they know he would have needed help. My best guess would be that Gristol kidnapped Truman, took him to the Rhombus of Ruin, and had previously hired Loboto to do the brain switch, so when Loboto was running from the camp, he just went there straightaway as a known safe spot.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:22
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I have just one figment in the game, and I need help. It's in Hollis Hot Streak. It's the orange open pill bottle. I think it was in the pachinko machine and it's now supposed to be in the side room in cardiology. However, it's not there. Anyway to make it appear? Or should I be looking somewhere else?
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Sep 21, 2021 03:37
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I remember I had one I was missing that turned out to be in that side-room, not sure if it was that one in particular but it was REALLY high up near the roof so I missed it the first few times I looked in there, maybe try that?
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Sep 21, 2021 03:45
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No go, sadly. I've climbed up on top of the lights in that room. Even looked up. No pill bottle I can see.
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Sep 21, 2021 04:03
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Wittgen posted:No go, sadly. I've climbed up on top of the lights in that room. Even looked up. No pill bottle I can see. Don't know how you're traveling through the level, but the figaments that get moved can be put in the entrance hallways to the various sub sections. If you're using the teleporting through the sections you'll never go there, and I had figaments in multiple of them when I went back.
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Sep 21, 2021 04:13
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Barudak posted:Don't know how you're traveling through the level, but the figaments that get moved can be put in the entrance hallways to the various sub sections. If you're using the teleporting through the sections you'll never go there, and I had figaments in multiple of them when I went back. Yes! This was it. Thank you so much.
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Sep 21, 2021 04:29
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I think the real answer is probably contradicting script drafts welded together. There's probably at least two at work considering how the Interns come-and-go from the story like they've always been there, and probably minor revisions-upon-revisions over the years the game has sat in development. If you read up on the development, there's a point where they cut boss fights due to a lack of funding until Microsoft bought them up, and there's probably more incidental content that got cut or pared back besides. There was a major document leak shortly after the first game's release, and from the originally planned backstory, basically every single aspect of the second game's plot is a very rough retcon. Truman being kidnapped and the family's past being important are like the only two things that are retained. It's clear that they were working from at least three completely different conceptual spaces, and didn't commit to any of them fully. The resulting resource drain contributes greatly to the second game's meteorically hosed moral compass.
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Sep 21, 2021 06:20
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Discendo Vox posted:There was a major document leak shortly after the first game's release, and from the originally planned backstory, basically every single aspect of the second game's plot is a very rough retcon. Truman being kidnapped and the family's past being important are like the only two things that are retained. It's clear that they were working from at least three completely different conceptual spaces, and didn't commit to any of them fully. The resulting resource drain contributes greatly to the second game's meteorically hosed moral compass. Do you happen to have access to this leak or remember any more what their original plans were? That sounds interesting! Similar question: There's no like, making-of special feature for this is there? I kind of remember Double Fine doing a behind-the-scenes documentary thing, like a DVD-special feature (god even typing that reference makes me seem old these days, huh?) for some of their earlier games.
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Sep 21, 2021 15:57
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Digital Osmosis posted:Similar question: There's no like, making-of special feature for this is there? I kind of remember Double Fine doing a behind-the-scenes documentary thing, like a DVD-special feature (god even typing that reference makes me seem old these days, huh?) for some of their earlier games. There will be. The development was fully filmed by 2 Player Productions and the documentary release is planned for the end of this year. You can check out some of the dev updates from the past few years on DF's youtube channel if you want a taster. for instance Sway Grunt fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 16:25
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Wittgen posted:I have just one figment in the game, and I need help. It's in Hollis Hot Streak. It's the orange open pill bottle. I think it was in the pachinko machine and it's now supposed to be in the side room in cardiology. However, it's not there. Anyway to make it appear? Or should I be looking somewhere else? Try checking the entrances of the various areas, if the original location of the figment is no longer obtainable, it will be put at the entrance of the area.
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Sep 21, 2021 16:33
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how is this game so good. they really did not hold back
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Sep 21, 2021 18:00
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Digital Osmosis posted:Do you happen to have access to this leak or remember any more what their original plans were? That sounds interesting! It took some digging (most references seem to have been removed since the game was released), but here you are: The Li-Po Backstory Document. These were design docs from when the first game was in development so some of it was changed and much of it was unused, but it developed a lot of family backstory tied to the Aquatos and Galochios. The original backstory involved the Galochios actually existing and a tragic feud, and no reference to the stuff made up for psychonauts 2 (the strange figure who gives Raz the camp flier was teased as being tied to the Galochios). The sequel was unlikely to directly interrogate Raz's family history unless the antagonists were tied to the Galochios; it appears more likely to have focused on the composition and politics of the psychonauts, which were more contentious. ...As it stands, the devs did a lot of work to ensure they didn't have any remaining plot threads for a third game. Instead, they smashed together the spy-oriented psychonauts stuff with the intern squad, the family backstory of Raz, greatly expanded and distorted, and the founding of the psychonauts, all into a single game. (in the process, they did something I always hate, which is giving your protagonist a retroactive pedigree directly tied to Important People). Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 23:24
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Discendo Vox posted:the Galochios actually existing. The thing is, they do actually exist, the Galochios and the Aquatos are the same family; Zalto Galochio is the father of both Lucrecia and Marona, but because both of them changed their last names through marriage, that's where we get Mux (Lucy's husband who died before Ford met her) and Aquato (Augustus' actual mother, who died in the flood alongside her husband Lazarus (founder of the Aquato Family Circus))
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Sep 21, 2021 23:38
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Mix. posted:The thing is, they do actually exist, the Galochios and the Aquatos are the same family; Zalto Galochio is the father of both Lucrecia and Marona, but because both of them changed their last names through marriage, that's where we get Mux (Lucy's husband who died before Ford met her) and Aquato (Augustus' actual mother, who died in the flood alongside her husband Lazarus (founder of the Aquato Family Circus)) Yes, but not as a family of psychics who had issued an actual curse on the Aquatos.
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Sep 21, 2021 23:50
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