FINAL FANTASY XIV: Shadowbringers - Remember that we once posted

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > FINAL FANTASY XIV: Shadowbringers - Remember that we once posted

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Control Volume: Dec 31, 2008

Mordiceius posted:

A lot of this is my fault because I could have better worded my initial post expressing frustrations. I don�t think DR itself is bad. I like the boss fights. I think the lost actions are cool and make things interesting.

I just think that the essence/lost action system itself could be better designed to encourage your average player to engage with it - which, in turn, would make many aspects of Bozja better.

Dude the only mistake you made was the common "I dont like it so its bad" line of thought that everyone here is currently participating in

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:08

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 12:49

acumen: Mar 17, 2005; Fun Shoe

Mordiceius posted:

Like, yeah. I mean, I think I�m just trying to express my frustration with the situation that many people don�t use actions and the system doesn�t encourage them enough.

Both players as a whole could do more to engage and make things better, but the devs could take steps as well to more greatly encourage use of essences/make it easier to understand which essences to use.

We have a �recommended gear� button for this very reason - to make things better for everyone. They should do the same with essences.

They could organize them by role or something too. Yeah there's a lot of chaff or weird situational essences and actions.

I still don't think it's too much to expect people to just read the drat things though, just like people should be reading their job abilities (not that this actually happens either). While I didn't immediately make the connection that flare star would be ridiculously OP on BLM or whatever, I did realize that I kept dying to poo poo so began using defensive buffs. Once I learned the fights I swapped to dps things. It's a pretty minimal effort.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:10

Tortolia: Dec 29, 2005; Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008; Grimey Drawer

I don't think anyone's going to claim that the whole lost action system is perfect, but it's fleshed out (and much improved from Eureka) and there's multiple ways to get what you need. Nor is DR perfect, enemies can definitely be spongy as a default state.

At the end of the day, DR is a 24 man raid. There's a limit to what a single person can accomplish, and it's also quite possible that you can go in, use good actions, and be hamstrung by a bunch of folks who don't. That's rough, but there is a lot of group content in this game where folks just barely engaging and coasting will slow things down. DR just magnifies that due to the power inherent in good lost action setups.

If you just random queue, sometimes the best you can do is bring a personal dps essence, and bring an action that will help the raid even if folks don't realize that they also could do the same. Bring that flare star, bring dervish, bring rend, bring banish, whatever. It'll help!

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:13

Jetrauben: Sep 7, 2011; angered the evil eye lately

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

I love how this one specific enemy has become the most reoccurring antagonist for the WoL.

I love that we just set aside time repeatedly to dunk on FF14 Diabolos, because gently caress that guy. You'd feel bad for him if he weren't just, like, the Worst.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:15

Klewer: Dec 26, 2012

I joined a PF that did 4 15 minute runs of DR just yesterday.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:19

Ybrik: Jan 1, 2008

Begemot posted:

It's a fantasy universe, maybe there's just air in space.

It's in the ocean of stars so our Kojin blessing pays off again

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:21

CottonWolf: Jul 20, 2012; Good ideas generator

Jesse Cox (noted former history teacher) has done a FFXIV lore video. And IMO, it's really good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQ__5ZBwBc

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:21

Control Volume: Dec 31, 2008

Bozja could reasonably do with a starter package of sorts that gives like, 3 of each low-level essence or something. Hell, give it to people when they unlock DR for the first time to remind them the system even exists.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:24

Mordiceius: Nov 10, 2007; If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

I feel like I'm a little extra harsh on Bozja as well because I don't find the story interesting at all and the zones are loving boring to look at.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:26

Control Volume: Dec 31, 2008

The latter is indisputably true

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:27

Tortolia: Dec 29, 2005; Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008; Grimey Drawer

Absolutely fair point. In contrast, Eureka had some major issues in zone flow but the aesthetic was extremely well done.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:28

Detheros: Apr 11, 2010; I want to die.

Delreg is fun but the healer pure essence doesn't interact with Seraph Strike so it's either Profane or Ordained for me, sometimes Templar.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:29

Dryzen: Jul 23, 2011

I think they still designed a lot of stuff in Bozja with the mindset that people will have to figure out how things work and then spread that info themselves. This was entirely how logos actions worked in Eureka and between duels, the in instance dungeons mechanics and the deep essences having hidden effects, I�m pretty sure they still want this aspect to be there in some way.

I�m not saying this is better over any alternatives for the good of the content, but I do think it creates some neat moments in game and apparently some posting wars on forums

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:31

seiferguy: Jun 9, 2005; FLAWED
INTUITION; Toilet Rascal

As a guy who hated the onset of Bozja, I've come around to it once I got used to the essences synchronization, and using some preformed parties. Basically:

1. Do speed DR runs in PF, if one isn't up, do other content! Queue into Bozja or Zadnor and try to do a CLL or Dal run instead. Even if you aren't perfect with buttons, an "okay" DR speedrun ends up being like 20 minutes.
2. Set up a preform party to do cluster farming. Get 3 tanks with bloodsucker and dps / healers with dps actions.
3. Healing with aetherweaver is an easy goto for me. You can still keep people alive but you've got dps parity. Add in seraph strike and a lost font of magic and you can put out some amazing numbers.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:32

Dryzen: Jul 23, 2011

Do I wish the game told people that killing bottom early in CLL didn�t mean you wiped?

Do I still think it�s funny to just say �it�ll be ok� and then kill bottom early anyway and kill the giant when it spawns and say �see?�

Yes.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:33

Detheros: Apr 11, 2010; I want to die.

I just chime in "Bot: Holy%" when that happens.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:35

Rand Brittain: Mar 25, 2013; "Go on until you're stopped."

The balance in Delubrum is not great at the moment because it's based on the assumption that people are putting more work into obtaining and using Lost Actions than most of them actually do, and the bosses take way too long to kill. (In my experience maybe half of players use an Essence?)

You could make the argument that this is a right now problem and not a universal problem because things were better at the start when there were more players regularly running the content and so you had a higher number of highly-motivated and knowledgable players running Delubrum Reginae over and over, while also running other Bozja content in order to be flush in Essences and Lost Actions. It's slow now because there are fewer players and fewer highly-motivated players, so now at least half of your group members are going to be below average.

I think it's reasonable to want the devs to lower the health on bosses to make things less tedious for the slightly-below-average groups that you tend to get when you queue right now. I also think there are things they could do to make the average a bit higher: you could make it so you have to choose an essence before entering Delubrum, so that you have to actively decide to not use an Essence if you have one available. You could also rearrange the Lost Actions so that it's easier to see which ones you might actually want based on your class.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:36

Control Volume: Dec 31, 2008

seiferguy posted:

2. Set up a preform party to do cluster farming. Get 3 tanks with bloodsucker and dps / healers with dps actions.

As an aside, I ended up doing all my cluster farming in between FATEs and CEs because farming the magitek enemies seems to make CEs spawn more often. Im not sure if its hearsay + confirmation bias but at the very least it didnt feel like a grind and I was swimming in fragments

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:38

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Detheros posted:

Delreg is fun but the healer pure essence doesn't interact with Seraph Strike so it's either Profane or Ordained for me, sometimes Templar.

Yeah, the healer pure essence sucks and is the one that you can easily do without.

IMHO the best thing they could do for the essence/action problem is make them not consumable. Make it so you still need to put some effort into it, like to get access to them you need to combine rare drops or whatever, but once you do that you have them available forever. You're already limited by how much you can carry, and you can only swap them out at designated locations, so there's really no need for them to be consumable items on top of that.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:41

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

Fister Roboto posted:

Yeah, the healer pure essence sucks and is the one that you can easily do without.

IMHO the best thing they could do for the essence/action problem is make them not consumable. Make it so you still need to put some effort into it, like to get access to them you need to combine rare drops or whatever, but once you do that you have them available forever. You're already limited by how much you can carry, and you can only swap them out at designated locations, so there's really no need for them to be consumable items on top of that.

This would be a good change yeah

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:43

ZenMasterBullshit: Nov 2, 2011; Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Arist posted:

You guys are acting like giving the bosses reasonable amounts of health would completely destroy DR. I feel like you could make it take 10-30 minutes instead of 20-60 pretty easily.

They already have reasonable amounts of health. No ones acting like this at all you're just being dumb

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:49

Rand Brittain: Mar 25, 2013; "Go on until you're stopped."

Yeah, that may honestly be one of the biggest sources of the problem � because Lost Actions are limited-use, they run into the megalixir issue where people don't want to use one of their limited charges of Lost Chainspell or a Deep Essence on what's "just" a regular Delubrum run, one of many they have to do to finish their relic.

Of course, the need to get more Lost Actions is part of what makes the Bozja engine run. Maybe if the actions themselves were permanent, and fragments were a generic currency needed to activate them?

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:51

Dryzen: Jul 23, 2011

Control Volume posted:

As an aside, I ended up doing all my cluster farming in between FATEs and CEs because farming the magitek enemies seems to make CEs spawn more often. Im not sure if its hearsay + confirmation bias but at the very least it didnt feel like a grind and I was swimming in fragments

they do indeed spawn skirmishes AND ces, people have done a good amount of testing in locked instances

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:52

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

They already have reasonable amounts of health. No ones acting like this at all you're just being dumb

Sorry you hit traffic or whatever but you already missed the pile-on, maybe next time

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:53

Failboattootoot: Feb 6, 2011; Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

Fister Roboto posted:

Yeah, the healer pure essence sucks and is the one that you can easily do without.

IMHO the best thing they could do for the essence/action problem is make them not consumable. Make it so you still need to put some effort into it, like to get access to them you need to combine rare drops or whatever, but once you do that you have them available forever. You're already limited by how much you can carry, and you can only swap them out at designated locations, so there's really no need for them to be consumable items on top of that.

Pretty much.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 19:53

Mordiceius: Nov 10, 2007; If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Fister Roboto posted:

Yeah, the healer pure essence sucks and is the one that you can easily do without.

IMHO the best thing they could do for the essence/action problem is make them not consumable. Make it so you still need to put some effort into it, like to get access to them you need to combine rare drops or whatever, but once you do that you have them available forever. You're already limited by how much you can carry, and you can only swap them out at designated locations, so there's really no need for them to be consumable items on top of that.

I feel like the Lost Action UI could just be better too. Right now, it's kind of information overload when you pop in and see a billion locked/unlocked actions. I don't know how I would suggest making it easier to use, but I can definitely understand people who open it up, get overwhelmed and never go back to it.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:01

Dryzen: Jul 23, 2011

vendors improved when you can show gear for only a specific job, the chest could really use something similar

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:03

Control Volume: Dec 31, 2008

Its a bit of a difficult problem to solve, but Id love if they found a way to inform people that duty action icons are a thing that exist and can be assigned to a normal hotbar. I didnt know until a few months ago and it would have saved me a lot of annoyance even before I went through bozja

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:03

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Tortolia posted:

Two things regarding speed boosts:

1) if you're worried about yeeting yourself off edges or something because a Scholar is pressing buttons, you probably shouldn't, because the speed buff was subtle enough in the trailer that I didn't even realize that was what they were demoing until they did the healer slides later in, it doesn't seem that dramatic.

2) if you think Lost Impetus is only used for trolling then you should actually equip it and use it yourself because it is a top five lost action, and amazing for saving your rear end and your party's rear end in pretty much any Bozja group content, let alone being able to facilitate speedruns, prisoner rescues, etc. Definitely take Impetus if you want to qualify for duels because the combination En Avant and turbo speed is unparalleled for dodging the mass AOE poo poo that happens in almost every qualifier.

It can either not be that big a deal, or it can matter that I want a way to opt out. Leave it in, absolutely, but I want a way to preemptively stop it from my end.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:03

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

There's a lot about Bozja that I do like, but yeah, there are several aspects of the systems and UI that could do with a bit of iterating and improving on with the EW relic.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:06

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

CottonWolf posted:

Jesse Cox (noted former history teacher) has done a FFXIV lore video. And IMO, it's really good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQ__5ZBwBc

Oh, he got that out on time? On stream last night there was a bit of a breakdown trying to fix a typo.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:07

Ibram Gaunt: Jul 22, 2009

Bruceski posted:

It can either not be that big a deal, or it can matter that I want a way to opt out. Leave it in, absolutely, but I want a way to preemptively stop it from my end.

There's no way to stop people from Rescuing you so I don't think this will ever be the case either.

Also it seems to be like..Pelotan speed, not the hyper zoom of lost impetus.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:09

Orcs and Ostriches: Aug 26, 2010; The Great Twist

Arm's Length and similar effects make you immune to Rescue if you can predict it.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:11

Hogama: Sep 3, 2011

I've had someone Arm's Length a stack marker they ran away from everyone with no mechanics or player failures going on that would make a solo death desirable.
They also instantly took the rez afterwards.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:14

Mordiceius: Nov 10, 2007; If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

https://www.siliconera.com/sephiroth-passed-by-emet-selch-in-nhk-final-fantasy-character-poll/

quote:

Emet-Selch More Popular Than Sephiroth in NHK Final Fantasy Poll

NHK recently published the results for its Final Fantasy character popularity poll, which ran from December 2019 and included characters, games, bosses/summons, and music.

There were 468,654 votes in total. According to the poll results, Emet-Selch is number six in popularity, while Sephiroth is number 11. Below are the top 25 character rankings in order.

Cloud Strife (FFVII)
Yuna (FFX)
Aerith Gainsborough (FFVII)
Vivi (FFIX)
Zidane Tribal (FFIX)
Emet-Selch (FFXIV)
Tidus (FFX)
Lightning (FFXIII)
Tifa Lockhart (FFVII)
Zack Fair (FFVII)
Sephiroth (FFVII)
Haurchefant Greystone (FFXIV)
Noctis Lucis Caelum (FFXV)
Squall Leonheart (FFVIII)
Auron (FFX)
Gilgamesh (FFV)
Terra Branford (FFVI)
Kain Highwind (FFIV)
Celes Chere (FFVI)
Crystal Exarch (FFXIV)
Locke Cole (FFVI)
Vincent Valentine (FFVII)
Edgar Roni Figaro (FFVI)
Shantotto (FFXI)
Bartz Klauser (FFV)

The poll also ranked Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy VII, and Final Fantasy VI as favorite games in the series. As for bosses and summons, Knights of the Round (FFVII), Kefka (FFVI), and Hades (FFXIV) are the top three choices. According to the music section, the top three songs are �To Zanarkand,� �Battle on the Big Bridge,� and �Eyes on Me.�

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:14

Xad: Jul 2, 2009; "Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"; College Slice

hey so is anyone else hoping that Monk just has all of Tifa's animations from FFVIIR as blitzes now? At the end of the job action trailer they basically do Starshower as a Blitz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkK3zTYR7LU&t=30s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Ynt_GtR-c

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:17

blatman: May 10, 2009; 14 inc dont mez

Mordiceius posted:

https://www.siliconera.com/sephiroth-passed-by-emet-selch-in-nhk-final-fantasy-character-poll/

why the heck is lightning ranked higher than crystal exarch?

why the heck is ANYONE ranked higher than crystal exarch? (except for gilgamesh, he should be #1 and is #1 in my heart)

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:23

Mordiceius: Nov 10, 2007; If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

blatman posted:

why the heck is lightning ranked higher than crystal exarch?

why the heck is ANYONE ranked higher than crystal exarch? (except for gilgamesh, he should be #1 and is #1 in my heart)

There are three reasons characters get high ranked:

1 - They're good characters.
2 - People are horny for them.
3 - They are good characters people are horny for.

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:24

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Motomu Toriyama stuffing the ballot box

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:27

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 12:49

Kerrzhe: Nov 5, 2008

Mordiceius posted:

https://www.siliconera.com/sephiroth-passed-by-emet-selch-in-nhk-final-fantasy-character-poll/

how is Tidus ranked so high :confused:

# ? Sep 19, 2021 20:27

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