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freebooter posted:Bad outcome - global mass vaccination against original strain and Delta but opening back up and letting it circulate asymptomatically results in a spicy new vaccine-resistant variant and the world finds itself back at square one with lockdowns and border closures etc. Why does everyone keep suggesting there will be a variant that is completely resistent to vaccines? It's bizarre, no scientist is saying this is going to happen. Existing vaccines can be changed to attack new variants. Breetai posted:Thanks for the responses everyone, I'm feeling a whole lot less imminently deathy. Stay away from reading poo poo like CSPAM or doomerism on these forums, a lot of people here just want to read into the worst possible scenario for every COVID-related topic. E.g. If you get COVID you WILL great brain damage, etc.
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Sep 20, 2021 01:39
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Malcolm Turnbeug posted:Individual action can't solve this problem but that's not the same thing as 'individual actions can't make this any worse by entrenching it as accepted behaviour' and it's wild how often moral dilemmas around capitalism are simply people's inability to acknowledge that Yeah but the problem is that by that logic, don't own shares, because you're entrenching the acceptableness of infinitely growth and infinite profit. Don't have a superannuation fund because they invest in shares, therefore making it acceptable. Don't buy electronic consumables because they're made in slave worker conditions, same with most clothing. Don't use any electricity or any transportation because fossil fuels are going to kill millions. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and individual action cannot fix systemic problems. Basically we all draw our own line at what we consider ethical and what we don't. There's obvious examples of unnecessarily unethical (slavery) and necessarily unethical (consumption of fossil fuels/electricity), but where we each draw the line in needing to look after our personal wellbeing is individual.
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Sep 20, 2021 01:46
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StrangeThing posted:This is some pretty serious fear-mongering. Pfizer effectiveness reduces against transmission, yes, but maintains its effectiveness against serious disease and death. Health workers are going to be under threat of exposure constantly and we can't afford to have them take time off sick during a pandemic regardless of how their sickness ends. Giving them the best chance of avoiding infection is a good thing even if we ignore the reduction of suffering as being an upside in itself. Also if the government listened to CSPAM we wouldn't be having these problems at all so I'm not sure why doomerism is so bad. Kinda feels like a bunch of powerful people being relentlessly positive (or not giving a poo poo) about COVID is what got us into this mess. The world could use some more loving doomerism if you ask me. If you personally can't take the mental toll then fair enough go take a break and take care of yourself, but the rest of us probably should be dooming it up.
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Sep 20, 2021 01:48
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hooman posted:Yeah but the problem is that by that logic, don't own shares, because you're entrenching the acceptableness of infinitely growth and infinite profit. Don't have a superannuation fund because they invest in shares, therefore making it acceptable. Don't buy electronic consumables because they're made in slave worker conditions, same with most clothing. Don't use any electricity or any transportation because fossil fuels are going to kill millions. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and individual action cannot fix systemic problems. That's fine but its also extremely pathetic to make a big deal about where your line is and then shifting it dramatically the second you have the equity to participate in this particular form of inequality that specifically affects the real circumstances of a lot of people
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Sep 20, 2021 01:53
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hooman posted:Basically we all draw our own line at what we consider ethical and what we don't. There's obvious examples of unnecessarily unethical (slavery) and necessarily unethical (consumption of fossil fuels/electricity), but where we each draw the line in needing to look after our personal wellbeing is individual. i agree with this as a broad principle, but for this specific situation, i think participating in the investment property game assumes a degree of wealth or financial stability large enough to indicate someone's personal wellbeing is okay i dunno though. the whole system is hosed, you have to have a bit of "hate the game not the player" about it
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Sep 20, 2021 01:57
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freebooter posted:
I think this is exactly what people were expecting towards the end of last year - that we'd all get vaxxed and be back to our normal lives by half way through 2021 and they're absolutely furious that it hasn't turned out to be the reality (for reasons which are largely beyond the control of any government in the world).
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Sep 20, 2021 01:58
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As the shine is beginning to come off the SUUKA Submarine plan, with the government revealing that they will be built overseas, with the option for some of them to be assembled in Whyalla, this dropped yesterday quote:The short-term leasing of nuclear-powered submarines from the UK or the US is being considered by the Morrison government but the Coalition insists nuclear weapons won’t be based in Australia. So the Government looks like they are going to repeat the F-111 Program, where after the cost and delivery times blew out the US apologised by kindly letting us pay even more money ($41 million then, $290 million in 2021) to lease 24 completely different aircraft - the F-4E Phantom - for 4 years. We gave 23 of them back and paid for the one we broke, because Malcolm Fraser forgot to tick the box for extended crash insurance. The catch here is there is not a lot of options on the slightly-used nuclear submarine market. The most likely option are the USS Providence and USS Oklahoma City, both of which will be decommissioned in the next year - but these are 40 year old boats already. To give an idea, the last Oberon class submarine (HMAS Orion) was started in 1972 - and this sub was retired and replaced with the Collins class. Also, a Los Angeles class needs 143 people to crew it - or three times the crew of a Collins class, so we would need to strip 3 Collins class subs to crew a single 688. So what I can see, this is what is available at Uncle Biden's Crazy Used Submarine Emporium - sorted by service life. Note that the Los Angeles need a midlife refuelling after 20 years of service, and that will take a minimum of 18 months. code:
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Sep 20, 2021 02:00
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Malcolm Turnbeug posted:That's fine but its also extremely pathetic to make a big deal about where your line is and then shifting it dramatically the second you have the equity to participate in this particular form of inequality that specifically affects the real circumstances of a lot of people Yeah, that is a fair criticism to make of that Labor person. Big pulling the ladder up after you energy. hooman fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 02:01
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hooman posted:Yeah but the problem is that by that logic, don't own shares, because you're entrenching the acceptableness of infinitely growth and infinite profit. Don't have a superannuation fund because they invest in shares, therefore making it acceptable. Don't buy electronic consumables because they're made in slave worker conditions, same with most clothing. Don't use any electricity or any transportation because fossil fuels are going to kill millions. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and individual action cannot fix systemic problems. While I broadly agree with this and I don't think property investors are murderous capitalists relative to struggling-workers-trying-to-survive corporate shareholders, there's something more distasteful about property investing on the individual level. Part of it is that it requires a level of financial privilege that is not necessary for any of these other things, but also that you probably know people whose lives have been made worse by property investors specifically. If you buy an investment property you might meet some of the people you are screwing over when you go to inspect the property, and if you decided not to buy the property owner-occupiers who might live in it instead could be directly better off (although I accept that these potential owner-occupiers also are necessarily fairly financially privileged and another investor might just buy it). This is slightly different to buying shares in a company where your decision to buy shares only harms people in a general participation in capitalism sense and your decision to buy shares or not doesn't really make any difference to any identifiable person.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:08
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Phigs posted:Health workers are going to be under threat of exposure constantly and we can't afford to have them take time off sick during a pandemic regardless of how their sickness ends. Giving them the best chance of avoiding infection is a good thing even if we ignore the reduction of suffering as being an upside in itself. I don't disagree. quote:Also if the government listened to CSPAM we wouldn't be having these problems at all I personally don't think "get the vaccine or we shoot you" is a great policy, but try it and let me know how it goes. Doomerism isn't warranted. The vaccines are excellent at preventing serious injury and death. We have survived pandemics before, we will survive this one. Instead of doomerism we should have realistic and reasonable plans to reduce the pressure on the health care system.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:10
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I meant more in terms of quarantining and locking down hard and fast and mask mandates and the like. We wouldn't have even needed the vaccine if we had proper quarantine and lockdown protocols in place early. I mean they're loosening an already compromised quarantine system for international travel in NSW. That's insane.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:13
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NSW new cases are back under 1000 and 20% of 12-15 year olds have received their first dose. A good start to the week.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:16
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:While I broadly agree with this and I don't think property investors are murderous capitalists relative to struggling-workers-trying-to-survive corporate shareholders, there's something more distasteful about property investing on the individual level. [...] Yeah the big thing for me is that when you buy investment property to rent as homes you literally, directly make housing cost more by paying more than the next person would have.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:18
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Phigs posted:I meant more in terms of quarantining and locking down hard and fast and mask mandates and the like. We wouldn't have even needed the vaccine if we had proper quarantine and lockdown protocols in place early. I definitely don't disagree about the problems with international quarantine, but VIctoria at least locked down hard and early, especially this time. Yet our oubreak is growing faster than NSW. I'm open to suggestions about what else can be done. I'd actually argue home quarantine is safer than hotel quarantine, but that's a separate discussion. Lolie posted:NSW new cases are back under 1000 and 20% of 12-15 year olds have received their first dose. A good start to the week. Excellent.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:20
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StrangeThing posted:I'd actually argue home quarantine is safer than hotel quarantine, but that's a separate discussion. I'm not opposed to your argument here in general but I don't have enough trust in the NSW government to imagine they'll do it in a way that is, or that they're doing it for the reason that it is, safer. It feels more like it's a part of their open up strategy and they're doing it because it requires less effort on their part and frees up the hotels for usual business as we open up.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:26
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Phigs posted:I'm not opposed to your argument here in general but I don't have enough trust in the NSW government to imagine they'll do it in a way that is, or that they're doing it for the reason that it is, safer. It feels more like it's a part of their open up strategy and they're doing it because it requires less effort on their part and opens up the hotels for usual business as we open up. Well, Victoria is doing a similar thing.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:27
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One of my co-workers got a notification about visiting a tier 2 exposure site (isolate until negative result) 15 days after the exposure lol
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Sep 20, 2021 02:31
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https://twitter.com/joshburnsmp/status/1439713620904972289?s=21
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Sep 20, 2021 02:48
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Phigs posted:I'm not opposed to your argument here in general but I don't have enough trust in the NSW government to imagine they'll do it in a way that is, or that they're doing it for the reason that it is, safer. It feels more like it's a part of their open up strategy and they're doing it because it requires less effort on their part and frees up the hotels for usual business as we open up. Home quarantine didn't work for any state last time around. This time around the plan is to use technology to help ensure people are where they should be and no just rely on compliance visits by police/ADF. We're still going to need alternative locations for people to quarantine. Not every average house is suitable for isolating from other occupants.
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Sep 20, 2021 02:50
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And I oop-
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Sep 20, 2021 03:06
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Maybe we can ask France for some more…
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Sep 20, 2021 03:14
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quote:ACT chief minister Andrew Barr says the territory will not be receiving the increase of Pfizer doses it was originally promised from the federal government due to limitations in supply: https://www.theguardian.com/austral...f0887fe13f5758e quote:Hundreds of thousands of Moderna vaccine appointments will soon be available to Victorians, as the state speeds up its vaccination efforts. https://thewest.com.au/politics/vic-plan-to-reopen-criticised-by-business-c-4010776 The people who are going to get screwed over are those who had their first dose of Pfizer at a mass vaccination centre with their second dose booked for 6 weeks. Second doses weren't reserved for those people. The aim was to get as many first doses into people as possible.
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Sep 20, 2021 03:17
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So since nobody seems to know what the TTI plan is here, what are other countries doing? Have they ever even really bothered with it? I know the UK said if you're fully vaccinated you no longer have to isolate if you're a close contact, but they also had people disabling/ignoring their app because it was going haywire because there was so much COVID about. Does Denmark or Ireland or any of the other highly vaxxed countries bother with TTI anymore? Did they ever in the first place?Phigs posted:I'm not opposed to your argument here in general but I don't have enough trust in the NSW government to imagine they'll do it in a way that is, or that they're doing it for the reason that it is, safer. It feels more like it's a part of their open up strategy and they're doing it because it requires less effort on their part and frees up the hotels for usual business as we open up. Forcing incoming travellers (who are still all Australian citizens/residents) into hotel quarantine which they have to stump up for themselves was justifiable when the country was a COVID-free paradise. When Sydney has been recording 1,000+ cases a day for weeks and the virus is rampant in the community, and the government has conceded it's here to stay, it no longer seems proportionate or justifiable. If a few dozen COVID-positive passengers arrive per day in a locked-down city and we ask them to isolate for two weeks at home rather than being in a hotel, and maybe one or two of them break the rules and have mates over or go to the shops, who cares? It's a drop in the ocean. Being a hotel security guard or a quarantining traveller over the past couple of weeks must have been Kafkaesque. Lolie posted:The people who are going to get screwed over are those who had their first dose of Pfizer at a mass vaccination centre with their second dose booked for 6 weeks. Second doses weren't reserved for those people. Where have you read this? That's precisely the opposite of how I understood it to work - first doses automatically reserve a second dose (if not a precise appointment date) which is why the availability of first appointments could be so random (because they were based on current stockpile availability, not projected availability).
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Sep 20, 2021 03:39
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freebooter posted:
Chant and Gladys said verbally that they were making getting first doses in as many arms in NSW as possible their priority when they opened up Pfizer at the mass vaccination hubs and the gap between doses was pushed out. It seemed a safe strategy at the time as Australia as due to start receiving larger shipments of Pfizer which would cover the second doses. The vaccine swaps we've done will likely also affect how much Pfizer stock we'll have available in the next few months. https://twitter.com/edengillespie/status/1439767149812224000 Lolie fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 03:53
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Oh I was talking about Vic, never mind
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Sep 20, 2021 04:03
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evilbastard posted:As the shine is beginning to come off the SUUKA Submarine plan, with the government revealing that they will be built overseas, with the option for some of them to be assembled in Whyalla, this dropped yesterday Where did the suggestion that anything would be assembled in Whyalla come from? Pretty sure there's no capacity for that here, thought it would be in Adelaide if anywhere.
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Sep 20, 2021 04:44
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Just for easy steel from the steelworks to wield it together or something
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Sep 20, 2021 05:11
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Stoca Zola posted:Where did the suggestion that anything would be assembled in Whyalla come from? Pretty sure there's no capacity for that here, thought it would be in Adelaide if anywhere. Actual reason : Mental Brainfart
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Sep 20, 2021 05:20
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I'm fully expecting the submarine deal to end up being the US just gaining the ability to park a bunch of new Virginia class subs at the Perth/HMAS Stirling base with a few token RAN members serving aboard. Some part of that deal will be Australia acquiring them after a couple of decades which will not actually happen because people will have forgotten. We already have US Marines stationed in the NT, this just opens the door further for US forces to post themselves 'legitimately' in more strategically important regions and put pressure on the South China Sea. If we had competent leaders we could gain a fair bit by giving up this sort of sovereignty but lol.
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Sep 20, 2021 05:27
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The submarine component is probably the least important and interesting part of the deal tbh.
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Sep 20, 2021 05:29
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quote:NSW police never started investigating Christian Porter rape allegation, internal review reveals
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Sep 20, 2021 06:09
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What a loving surprise
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Sep 20, 2021 06:46
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So they just waited for the victim to kill herself, then shrugged their shoulders and said "Well nothing we can do now."? It bothers me so much that it was not the fact that he was a rapist that forced him to resign from the Ministership, but the fact that he doesn't want to say who paid his legal bills, in a spurious defamation lawsuit against the public broadcaster. This may be a hot take: but gently caress Christian Porter, and drat the system that has enabled a fuckstain like him to be allowed to exist.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:02
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There's some questioning how many people there are legit CFMEU members. https://twitter.com/tom_tanuki/status/1439780040565084162?s=21
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Sep 20, 2021 07:12
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How the gently caress did we go from vaccination being widely accepted as a miracle of medical science to a solid 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 people kneejerk rejecting it because they think it'll give them autism or something? In, like, the space of one or two generations?
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Sep 20, 2021 07:20
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https://twitter.com/SenatorWong/status/1439780073532366851
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Sep 20, 2021 07:23
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freebooter posted:How the gently caress did we go from vaccination being widely accepted as a miracle of medical science to a solid 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 people kneejerk rejecting it because they think it'll give them autism or something? In, like, the space of one or two generations? Jenny McCarthy, Pete Evans, Qanon probably.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:23
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There's been vaccine scepticism as long as there's been vaccines. We have the internet now though, and diseases are less rampant in general so people think this is the natural state of things and not an achievement of medical science
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Sep 20, 2021 07:25
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freebooter posted:How the gently caress did we go from vaccination being widely accepted as a miracle of medical science to a solid 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 people kneejerk rejecting it because they think it'll give them autism or something? In, like, the space of one or two generations? Basically one doctor abused children and then sparked off a media circus in order to get rich from his own vaccine. Hbomber has the full run down, it was severely hosed https://youtu.be/8BIcAZxFfrc
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Sep 20, 2021 07:25
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no...no!!!!
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Sep 20, 2021 07:35
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