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Lol even hunter-gatherers have religion. There has literally never been a human society without it. It only gets used for imperialism in the same way everything does.
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Sep 19, 2021 16:33
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Any ideology (religious or otherwise) can be warped and bent to serve an imperialist agenda. Even Darwinist science got perverted into an ideological weapon for that purpose.
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Sep 19, 2021 16:45
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I don't know if we should open the huge can of worms that is the origin of Islam in relation to imperialism, but that sure went more imperial than Judaism or Nordic paganism for instance
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Sep 19, 2021 17:14
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 La Palma can potential create a 2m wave on New York
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Sep 19, 2021 17:24
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BonHair posted:I don't know if we should open the huge can of worms that is the origin of Islam in relation to imperialism, but that sure went more imperial than Judaism or Nordic paganism for instance Vikings, known for not raiding, slaving and invading foreign lands. This is a stupid argument anyway. Conquest and domination is going to be justified in many ways, like with ideology, whether or not it's religious or theistic.
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Sep 19, 2021 17:33
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Randarkman posted:Vikings, known for not raiding, slaving and invading foreign lands. Not disagreeing with this, but that's not exactly imperial? Vikings either raided a place and went home, or they invaded a place and settled there more or less permanently without any formalised relationship with their original location. Also is my understanding that their concept of religion was a lot more pragmatic in terms of worshipping whatever local god(s) they met, especially in situations where they were either trading or mercenaries.
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Sep 19, 2021 17:45
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BonHair posted:Also is my understanding that their concept of religion was a lot more pragmatic in terms of worshipping whatever local god(s) they met, especially in situations where they were either trading or mercenaries. That's just basically any traditional polytheistic religion. That's not really pragmatism, liberalism og secularism, thats just how a traditional polytheistic religion based around sacrifice and ritual works. There is little concept of doctrine and the idea of personal belief and faith is irrelevant because every action in society is essentially religious. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 19, 2021 17:54
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Tei posted:
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Sep 19, 2021 17:57
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Sep 19, 2021 18:28
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Should laballed Greece "Turkey" and Turkey either "Greece" or "Arabia"
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Sep 19, 2021 18:48
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Greece's weather is too good for it be Russia. Maybe it's an extension of crime France?
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Sep 19, 2021 19:59
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TinTower posted:I mean, for most of the internet, imperialism is when America does a thing, and the more America does a thing the more imperialister it is. You might want to back up how these are even remotely the same thing.
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Sep 19, 2021 20:34
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Orange Devil posted:You might want to back up how these are even remotely the same thing. Belt and Road is pretty blatantly China trying to make a bunch of developing nations dependent on Chinese money and knowhow, along with the economic alliances of the partnerships. It's clearly China trying to gain influence in large parts of the world and having a somewhat subtle way to get the partner nations to follow Beijing. Pretty imperial, but a lot smarter and more subtle than the US tactic of invading or sponsoring coups. Also materially better because Belt and Road is about actually building infrastructure and not about destroying stuff.
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Sep 19, 2021 20:56
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You're forgetting how adopting austerity policies and destroying social welfare programs are often requirements for IMF assistance.
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Sep 19, 2021 22:52
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Religion was the bedrock of the Roman state as were basically all states I’m aware of pre-modernity. They had to do rituals before every single battle coronation and government assembly to make sure the gods approved of it. Wasn't just battles and such, hah, they could barely go take a dump without invoking the relevant gods. Certainly such things as signing business contracts, building a house, whatever; better give the gods something, wouldn't want to risk offending them.
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Sep 19, 2021 23:21
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Grape posted:Any ideology (religious or otherwise) can be warped and bent to serve an imperialist agenda. Even Darwinist science got perverted into an ideological weapon for that purpose. Yes - and that was the point I wanted to make - some ideologies or religions lend themselves to these interpretations far, far more easily. It never stops buttfaces from trying it with ideologies and religions that are much harder to break this way, though, if you look at that Buddhist extremist in Burma leading genocide campaigns on the Rohingya.
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Sep 20, 2021 00:01
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Pope Hilarius II posted:Yes - and that was the point I wanted to make - some ideologies or religions lend themselves to these interpretations far, far more easily. It never stops buttfaces from trying it with ideologies and religions that are much harder to break this way, though, if you look at that Buddhist extremist in Burma leading genocide campaigns on the Rohingya. But that is more of a chicken and egg thing, I would say. If you are an imperialist society you will end up with an imperialist variant of your religion. If you have an imperialist religion your society will be more imperialist. If you are a victim of imperialism you will end up with an anti-imperialist variant of your religion. Same is true with almost all plausible moral judgement and almost all value systems.
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Sep 20, 2021 00:08
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Sep 20, 2021 00:22
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VictualSquid posted:But that is more of a chicken and egg thing, I would say. If you are a victim of imperialism, you will end up with an anti-imperialist religion until literally the instant you gain any power whatsoever.
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Sep 20, 2021 01:01
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I think you could argue there's, for example, fundamentalist sunni islam, where practitioners in some areas (hey Saudi) are doing some minor imperialisms, while in many other places they radicalize because they've been colonized. Saudi is also a US client state, but it's a setup vastly beneficial to the Saudi state.
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Sep 20, 2021 01:18
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Sunni Islam has about a thousand years of imperialism under its belt from before the advent of modern islamic fundamentalism. Shia Islam has a more complicated history of often being the underdog/resistance/anti-establishment sect of Islam, but has also had its own share of ruling dynasties over the years. There's fundamentalist atheists even, but it's probably a more complicated question whether aggressive/imperialist atheistoc states are motivated by their atheism, how much does their ideology count as a religion, that whole can of worms.
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Sep 20, 2021 03:26
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SlothfulCobra posted:There's fundamentalist atheists even Who the hell decided to split up the intervals like that, when they themselves note that they don't align with the developmental phases of a pregnancy? Aside from that, I'm kind of amazed that you're allowed to just abort a viable actual baby in some US states. Probably not many people who'd "take advantage" of that, given that they've carried the thing for that long, but like, if you did a C-section the kid could survive. Or am I misunderstanding something?
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Sep 20, 2021 05:48
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Byzantine posted:If you are a victim of imperialism, you will end up with an anti-imperialist religion until literally the instant you gain any power whatsoever.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:59
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Finland is weird because it's technically not "on request", because you have to give a reason, but AFAIK nobody gets denied and "social reasons" are more than 90% of all abortions. Compare to Poland where it's only after rape or if the mother's life is in danger. The doctor can still criticize your reasoning and the interview can be humiliating, so people are trying to finally update it. (I've got 0 experience of abortions and getting pregnant)
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Sep 20, 2021 10:43
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Kennel posted:Finland is weird because it's technically not "on request", because you have to give a reason, but AFAIK nobody gets denied and "social reasons" are more than 90% of all abortions. I think UK is similar (it has a little black square of shame too, but it's a bit hard to notice).
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Sep 20, 2021 11:21
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Now that is a beautifully politically loaded map. Holy poo poo. Kennel posted:Finland is weird because it's technically not "on request", because you have to give a reason, but AFAIK nobody gets denied and "social reasons" are more than 90% of all abortions. The map is intended to be misleading, implying that US abortion policy is in some way looser and less restrictive than Europe's, when in actual fact it's completely the opposite. For example in the UK an abortion is legal up to 24 weeks if their is a risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman. Since nothing in life is without risk, and certainly not something like a pregnancy, this is effectively a blanket right to an abortion up to 24 weeks.
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Sep 20, 2021 11:45
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Nobody cares about UK laws, since the UK has been erased from reality and the space it used to occupy is now used to display novelty giant flags visible from the ISS.
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Sep 20, 2021 11:49
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Pasco posted:For example in the UK an abortion is legal up to 24 weeks if their is a risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman. Since nothing in life is without risk, and certainly not something like a pregnancy, this is effectively a blanket right to an abortion up to 24 weeks. Emergency legislation was signed due to Covid to allow telemedical abortion services up to 12 weeks, where the pills are sent by post, and this has massively reduced clinic visits while improving availability, but there's nothing in writing that this can't be reversed on a whim.
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Sep 20, 2021 11:59
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I'm Lake Switzerland and the Mega-Adriatic Sea of No Data
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Sep 20, 2021 14:31
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https://twitter.com/IlyaYashin/status/1439883299283951619?s=20 Somehow the vote tallying took ages, and the results seem to have slightly changed in Russian election results in Moscow when the completely trustworthy electronic votes were finally included.  Blue is Putin gang.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:36
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steinrokkan posted:Nobody cares about UK laws, since the UK has been erased from reality and the space it used to occupy is now used to display novelty giant flags visible from the ISS. A marked improvement.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What does this even mean? He’s using fundamentalist to mean people like Sam Harris, Dawkins etc. who remind him of religious fundamentalists in being aggressive, opinionated, and others holding different views as personal attacks and dangers that must be destroyed rather than its literal meaning of strict conformism to sacred texts.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:10
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I think it fits. Religious fundies certainly don't conform to the bible.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:12
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Even by the strict definition, the Khmer Rouge probably qualify. They treated stuff like the communist manifesto a lot more like sacred texts than than the intended purposes.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:11
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Leviathan Song posted:Even by the strict definition, the Khmer Rouge probably qualify. They treated stuff like the communist manifesto a lot more like sacred texts than than the intended purposes. I mean, in a sense, marxism is also a universalist-salvationist theory, so the religious load is easy to tack onto it. Same with capitalism, which, in its current incarnation, has many theoretical aspects that purely rely on belief instead of evidence.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:54
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steinrokkan posted:Nobody cares about UK laws, since the UK has been erased from reality and the space it used to occupy is now used to display novelty giant flags visible from the ISS. This would have been a pretty good selling point for the benefits of Brexit to Europe to be fair.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:25
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Usually a direct comparison between political and religious metanarrative instantly causes my eyes to roll, but that's usually because the person invoking said comparison thinks that their own worldview involves none of the same psychology, that they themselves are less ideological.
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Sep 20, 2021 21:06
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Tweezer Reprise posted:Usually a direct comparison between political and religious metanarrative instantly causes my eyes to roll, but that's usually because the person invoking said comparison thinks that their own worldview involves none of the same psychology, that they themselves are less ideological. which is in itself a universalist statement, by the way
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Sep 20, 2021 22:23
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You’ve heard of Wallace’s Line. Now see Buxton’s Line.  The image quality on that map is awful, so have another: 
Platystemon fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 23:07
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Did the color key get reversed on that last one? If not, what's the interpretation of the years? e: ah, the lighter areas used to have malaria, but no longer do?
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Sep 20, 2021 23:43
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