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Hedrigall posted:This has been a lot of consecutive pages of dunking on a trans person doing some theory crafting to pass time in a pandemic cmon
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Sep 20, 2021 15:12
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They are making up a whole person out of whole cloth, through tenuously connected imagery in some games and text, while ignoring very real people who actually existed and did things. I think questioning their mental health is pretty fair.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:14
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Danaru posted:My main beef with the trans dev theorycrafting was how many people couched their "this theory is dumb" comments in mental health language, including a report asking for the OP to be straight up banned for "their own sake". It's harmless and no doubt a way to work through gender issues, and it was their own LP thread which is usually fanfiction anyway, so the pushback seemed really pointed at times. People call each other's posts deranged all the time on here, framing Endorph's comment as somehow especially directed at the OPs mental health rather than their dumb theory crafting is disengenous. I get that people on here are on a hair trigger to read extreme malice into everything, but you're doing the same thing of pretending the criticism aimed at the op wasn't literally being made by trans people so you can continue to low-key call them transphobic without just coming out and saying it. I repeat what I said before: mods on this site love to slam buttons on trans posters for disagreeing with trans posters about trans poo poo under the guise of protecting trans posters and it's condescending and infantilising as gently caress. Demeaning, too, as the other guy said. Once your "comfort theory" is 10,000 breathless words saying "I just can't see any other explanation for this!!" posted in the LP subforum, it's open to critical response, especially by other trans people . If you wanna work through your gender issues via fanfiction without pushback, do it on your own time, don't frame it as an objective textual analysis and then get mad when people disagree and try and make it about them being transphobic or something, come on.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:16
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CountryMatters posted:If someone posted a weird Zelda let's play where they went into serious detail on how each of the masks in Majora's Mask proves that the game was intended as part of the same continuity as Saints Row, Dark Souls, and Putt-Putt Goes to The Moon, then yeah I'd happily mock it even if they were the gayest person in the world I'd take that as a challenge, but I'd have to play through saints row, dark souls, and Majora's mask, and ain't no one got time for that. (The key link is the moon.)
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Sep 20, 2021 15:17
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I dont fully understand how creative writing in their own LP thread isnt "on their own time", and you can critique something without playing armchair psychologist to the writer
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Sep 20, 2021 15:19
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Seriously, I am a big ole nerd theory crafting crazy myself. I have this biiiiig ole theory about Mementos in Persona 5, the Amala Network in Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, and the Womb of Grief from Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey Redux being different manifestations of the same underpinning of a shared multiverse. There's that, and there's Creating A Whole drat Person And Insisting They Are Real. ETA: Danaru posted:I dont fully understand how creative writing in their own LP thread isnt "on their own time", and you can critique something without playing armchair psychologist to the writer It wasn't just in the LP thread. They (I legitimately don't know what pronouns this individual uses, by the by) have been in at least one other thread insisting that this supposedly unpersoned trans woman exists. AngryRobotsInc has a new favorite as of 15:24 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 15:20
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and yeah, it is pretty deranged to posit that all the mentioned games exist as a specific memorial to a specific mysterious vanished trans person rather than that they all have themes to do with gender and death which are interesting when viewed through a trans lens. and it is harmful when loads of people treat that nonsense as somehow profound and revelatory, and it's especially harmful when it then becomes using the spectre of transphobia as a cudgel to punish trans people who don't agree that it's profound and revelatory and perhaps even think that it's, yknow, deranged.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:23
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Danaru posted:I dont fully understand how creative writing in their own LP thread isnt "on their own time", and you can critique something without playing armchair psychologist to the writer It's not "on their own time" because if you read it, she treats what she's doing as actual textual analysis, and even explicitly says that's what she thinks she's doing. If you present something as a serious analysis, expect serious critique. If you don't want that, don't present your work as somehow revelatory and true rather than just having fun with themes. So people weren't as 100% polite as you want them to be? So people called a crazy theory crazy and said it seemed like she was overly invested in it? So the gently caress what, she was equally condescending and rude back to Endorph, going so far as to insult her intelligence (what was that Wikipedia line, seriously) and there's people in that thread and in here deliberately ignoring the fact the criticism is literally coming from trans people, but it's the critics who are the only ones talking poo poo according to you? Aight mate, sure.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:27
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Danaru posted:I dont fully understand how creative writing in their own LP thread isnt "on their own time", and you can critique something without playing armchair psychologist to the writer Have you ever typed up a post, putting a lot of effort into the thing, and then just not hit the post button? That. You can let out the thought in your head and have all the catharsis but without actually letting other people read and make fun of it.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:32
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LP used to make fun of 'creative writing' projects for being weird or unhinged even when they didn't involve speculating about a shadowy conspiracy in the real japanese gaming industry I remember the guy with a kirby avatar got banned for doing a self-insert pokemon LP. There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving a bit of pushback to the LP superstars when they're being weird, they're not babies
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Sep 20, 2021 15:34
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Danaru posted:I dont fully understand how creative writing in their own LP thread isnt "on their own time", and you can critique something without playing armchair psychologist to the writer when you post something on a public forum then people are going to comment on it and some may even be critical of it. 16-bit Butt-Head has a new favorite as of 15:41 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 15:36
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CountryMatters posted:LP used to make fun of 'creative writing' projects for being weird or unhinged even when they didn't involve speculating about a shadowy conspiracy in the real japanese gaming industry Theres a wide line between "you're a jackass for making a self insert pokemon LP" and "you're a jackass for coming up with a fictional trans person"
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Sep 20, 2021 15:38
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i guess more broadly - is there a functional reason that all these often competing products are secretly in one big marvel cinematic universe to deliver an abstract specific message? because like most people i have some pet theories, like how mirage in apex is the same model and sort of powerset as the protagonist from titanfall 2 they reworked for their battle royale following that game bombing. but if i wanted to demonstrate that i'd dig up the models and point to where i saw similarities and the kit because i have a very coherent and direct thesis. and like, i read even just a tiny bit - like i clicked over for one second and there's a section in there about how both final fantasy 6 and a souls game have a sequence in an opera where the protagonist operates above the stage while the dramatic performance goes on underneath. and this is laid down as evidence that final fantasy and the dark souls game have this important connection which demonstrates and so on and so on. and like - they're both sort of referencing the single most culturally relevant use of the word "opera" in the western imagination for the past 100+ plus years, come on. even if it somehow wasn't a phantom reference specifically which, yes it was, the literary device of a of play within a play is literally centuries old and people like to play around with that. it's very common? and more broadly - quite often they're going "oh this piece of art suggests it but this piece of art from the remake 20 years later REALLY suggests it" and i'm going - did the same person draw this, or direct this? did the same studio make this? how deep could this possibly go with no one ever talking about it? and you follow the line of thinking and on this base of sand they are trying to build castles. how do you say "these patterns you are seeing are plainly not there" in a polite way that doesn't imply something is going wrong somehow?
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Sep 20, 2021 15:40
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Danaru posted:Theres a wide line between "you're a jackass for making a self insert pokemon LP" and "you're a jackass for coming up with a fictional trans person" Except that's not what happened.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:40
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They're not just coming up with a fictional trans person. Whatever. You wanna theorize a character or whatever is trans, have at it. They are coming up with a person that by their own admission they Believe Was Real, while ignoring the contributions and sheer actual loving existence of real trans developers. There is a slight difference there.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:40
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small ghost posted:People call each other's posts deranged all the time on here, framing Endorph's comment as somehow especially directed at the OPs mental health rather than their dumb theory crafting is disengenous. I get that people on here are on a hair trigger to read extreme malice into everything, but you're doing the same thing of pretending the criticism aimed at the op wasn't literally being made by trans people so you can continue to low-key call them transphobic without just coming out and saying it. this isn't just exclusive to trans posters either. there have been multiple freakouts over flashing gifs because goons think anything that has flashing lights in it will trigger an epileptic seizure instead of it just being mildly annoying to look at.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:43
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Danaru posted:Theres a wide line between "you're a jackass for making a self insert pokemon LP" and "you're a jackass for coming up with a fictional trans person" yeah the wide line is that sybil's thread was like twenty times weirder and involved belief in a real world conspiracy that the thread followers were all eagerly drinking up
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Sep 20, 2021 15:43
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Also feeling a bit demeaned that several trans posters have said we are trans, and are being told that we can't make fun of someone's crazy poo poo because they're just working through some gender issues, like we have no idea what that's like.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:46
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Also feeling a bit demeaned that several trans posters have said we are trans, and are being told that we can't make fun of someone's crazy poo poo because they're just working through some gender issues, like we have no idea what that's like. Yeah it's really starting to do my nut in that people keep pointing this out and it just gets brushed aside with "op is trans, op is trans" without once acknowledging that the critics literally are too. It is demeaning. I'm sure we've all done some embarrassing poo poo along the way, god knows I have, but also the average age of these forums is like, what, mid-thirties - forties? Middle aged trans people are allowed to tell other middle aged trans people that their ideas suck without being nicey-nice about it all the time. small ghost has a new favorite as of 15:58 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 15:53
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I should be clearer, my mod position is "dont insult peoples' mental health over a dumb creative writing excercise", trans or otherwise. "This is loving stupid" is fine "this is deranged and you should be banned for your own safety" is not fine. It was never really about the theory itself. My personal stance is I disagree with the theory and its lovely to erase actual trans women but like beyond that who cares, which is why I'm flippant about the theory itself. That's got nothing to do with the mod side though
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Sep 20, 2021 16:08
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Danaru posted:I should be clearer, my mod position is "dont insult peoples' mental health over a dumb creative writing excercise", trans or otherwise. "This is loving stupid" is fine "this is deranged and you should be banned for your own safety" is not fine. It was never really about the theory itself. Then why are you in here talking about how it's a comfort theory and she's just working through some gender stuff? Why even bring that up if your only issue was that you thought the language used was the problem?
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Sep 20, 2021 16:10
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small ghost posted:Then why are you in here talking about how it's a comfort theory and she's just working through some gender stuff? Why even bring that up if your only issue was that you thought the language used was the problem? That was my only issue modwise, the comfort theory and working through gender stuff is why I'm personally like who cares. I can think people are being weird about the theory without it being an official mod decision
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Sep 20, 2021 16:14
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Also their whole "the english translation of these old games is more accurate than the original language" is just plain hilarious
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Sep 20, 2021 16:18
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ted woolsey ftw
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Sep 20, 2021 16:19
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Improbable Lobster posted:Also their whole "the english translation of these old games is more accurate than the original language" is just plain hilarious KJV inerrancy but for video game localisation
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Sep 20, 2021 16:20
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As a Souls Guy I will say that it's particularly goofy to speculate about (mis)translations in Souls games because the language disparities in Souls are excruciating documented by lore nerds already. We know that Nito was the first TO die, not just ranked first among the dead, because of comparative linguistics.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:24
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imo it's entirely possible to call a post stupid or silly without invoking the poster's mental health or identity most of the times. like yeah, lmao at that theory and dunking on it is fine, but i'd refrain from diagnosing people by their posts and, to be honest, i'm generally not a fan of how easily people slip into making pretty wild speculations about other posters' mental health. kinda feels one step removed from calling people the dreaded r-word
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Sep 20, 2021 16:24
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The utter contempt for Japanese culture as relevant to products of Japanese culture is something that the OP should perhaps reflect on. But it's not like the field of comparative literature isn't full of racist, utterly buckwild theories to explain how the inscrutable foreigner could be capable of producing common themes from common experiences without a secret conspiracy of some kind, so OP's in good company there.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:26
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Danaru posted:That was my only issue modwise, the comfort theory and working through gender stuff is why I'm personally like who cares. I can think people are being weird about the theory without it being an official mod decision Yeah, ok, for future reference that really doesn't come across when you're also calling the pushback "pointed" and making snide implications that the critics have ulterior motives for thinking it's an especially dumb theory, or framing the criticism as "you're a jackass for coming up with a fictional trans person". (Or the theory, for that matter, which goes well beyond "perhaps there were trans devs involved" and well into conspiratorialism.) Edit: I don't really care that endorph got probed or w/e, like she was being rude and got a 6er, thems the breaks, it's just so infuriating the way this keeps getting framed as mean callous pushback against the innocent trans theorycrafter. Like coolcab said, at a certain point a theory is so unsupported that there isn't a nice way to say "this is nonsense," there's just more and less polite ways. small ghost has a new favorite as of 16:39 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 16:28
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Y'know back in my day, video games were a fun way to pass time going "pew pew" at space invaders. But then I got to thinking about Pac-man. What of the ghost named "Sue"? Was it a subtle reference to the Johnny Cash song, in which a troubled child is forced to deal with a feminizing moniker as a way for his abusive father to toughen him up? Or was Sue a cry for help from a person who felt their identity, trapped in a maze, could only be expressed as a ghost, a pink ghost? A Ghost in the Shell, if you will. To quote noted feminist authority Marge Simpson: "It was the spring of 1983. Ms. Pac-man had struck a blow for women's rights." In this essay, I will
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Sep 20, 2021 16:30
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Danaru posted:"This is loving stupid" is fine "this is deranged and you should be banned for your own safety" is not fine. I don't know about banning them for their own safety, but OP was/is absolutely deranged. That theory goes way beyond "stupid" and was in straight-up Pepe Silvia territory.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:32
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My fun pet theory about Marvel and DC comics is that they exist in the same universe. There are, of course, DC vs. Marvel comics that confirm my theory to some extent, but there are many questions about their canonical status. One thing that proves it beyond any doubt, however is that my soul exists in countless parallel realities, where my essence is manifested as various superheroes, as they are portrayed in comics and other media. This ties universes of these two major franchises not only to each other, but also to the worlds of Sherlock Holmes (the books and the BBC show), Hellsing (manga, anime, and two fanfics), Twin Peaks, and many more.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:43
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Paladinus posted:My fun pet theory about Marvel and DC comics is that they exist in the same universe. There are, of course, DC vs. Marvel comics that confirm my theory to some extent, but there are many questions about their canonical status. One thing that proves it beyond any doubt, however is that my soul exists in countless parallel realities, where my essence is manifested as various superheroes, as they are portrayed in comics and other media. This ties universes of these two major franchises not only to each other, but also to the worlds of Sherlock Holmes (the books and the BBC show), Hellsing (manga, anime, and two fanfics), Twin Peaks, and many more. Seek help (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 20, 2021 16:52
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Danaru posted:I should be clearer, my mod position is "dont insult peoples' mental health over a dumb creative writing excercise", trans or otherwise. "This is loving stupid" is fine "this is deranged and you should be banned for your own safety" is not fine. It was never really about the theory itself. maybe if you repost the same dumb position a fourth time ppl will agree with you. whatever you do dont stop to consider whether small ghost and all the other ppl telling you you're wrong have a point
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Sep 20, 2021 16:55
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it's really simple. if someone posts something stupid and crazy then it should be called stupid and crazy
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Sep 20, 2021 16:56
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Yeah posting that there's a secret gamedev that happened to work on all your favourite games and hid clues to their real identity in them goes well beyond "comfort theorycrafting" imho
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Sep 20, 2021 16:57
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There's comfort theorycrafting and then there is demanding heads to roll because they dared to not agree with your favorite theories on fanfiction.net
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Sep 20, 2021 17:11
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Just wait until i finish this writeup about the PBS Kids cinematic universe, then you'll see
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Sep 20, 2021 17:15
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Improbable Lobster posted:Yeah posting that there's a secret gamedev that happened to work on all your favourite games and hid clues to their real identity in them goes well beyond "comfort theorycrafting" imho Even ignoring how ridiculous that theory is, I find it a bummer to behold because deciding that one singular person was largely responsible for all the art you like just shrinks the world in a way I find depressing.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:20
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CoolCab posted:and like, i read even just a tiny bit - like i clicked over for one second and there's a section in there about how both final fantasy 6 and a souls game have a sequence in an opera where the protagonist operates above the stage while the dramatic performance goes on underneath. and this is laid down as evidence that final fantasy and the dark souls game have this important connection which demonstrates and so on and so on. and like - they're both sort of referencing the single most culturally relevant use of the word "opera" in the western imagination for the past 100+ plus years, come on. even if it somehow wasn't a phantom reference specifically which, yes it was, the literary device of a of play within a play is literally centuries old and people like to play around with that. it's very common? This is something that also crumbles apart the minute you pick it up to look at. It's comparing a scene in FF6 where the characters are onstage in an opera and also fighting in the rafters above, to a level in Bloodborne. The Bloodborne level is in a hall of research where experiments were being conducted on unwilling patients. It's not structured like an opera or an open stage, it's a 3-floor tower ringed with shelves full of books and chemicals and escaped patients with bloated heads screeching and ambling around. It's overlooking the boss door (the boss immediately behind it is not Maria though, there's another boss gating Maria's own boss arena) as many levels in the games are structured to do, but the Souls games love inserting at least one sequence where you have to cross narrow rafters or ledges while enemies harass you, and where your greatest danger is fall damage. You could point to how that level in Bloodborne is very similar in and of itself to levels in multiple other FromSoft games that are also libraries, prisons, or research halls full of escaped prisoners or subjects, but it's only in the most broadest terms related to the FF6 sequence. By that logic you could also draw parallels to Kingdom Hearts or Thief probably a half dozen Assassin's Creed games.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:25
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