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CYBEReris posted:The contextualization of sparing as recruitment and the fact that all the recruits call you "boss" makes me think maybe the pacifism route will become more than it seems All Kris needs now is a piece of shrapnel for armor.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:12
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Flesnolk posted:I'm honestly not sure if it's forcing them together in a romantic sense - the ferris wheel dialogue is actually optional for the route, and Noelle comes out of it way more assertive about her interest in Susie. Still creepy though. No but we're intentionally getting in Noelles way to control her more. And while Noelle does become more assertive I doubt that is going to help her long term considering how traumatized she is already. We're off to a really creepy (in a good way) start and it's not going to get better.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:12
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Hogama posted:Nothing necessarily new here, just fun information to remember in light of the chapter's revelations. toby is the kind of motherfucker where you can't tell if this poo poo is red-strings-on-corkboard insanity or intentional five-dimension chess bullshit and i love it
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Sep 20, 2021 18:15
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Oxyclean posted:ACAB includes ghosts and fish ladies, Toriel! Could be that a Chapter 3 B-Side has you push Toriel into an 'I will literally kill anything that threatens my child' mindset.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:16
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BisbyWorl posted:Could be that a Chapter 3 B-Side has you push Toriel into an 'I will literally kill anything that threatens my child' mindset. "I would defend my child with my life" "You will" 
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Sep 20, 2021 18:18
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Third option get back together with your ex for your kid's sake. If Asgore ends up showing up (he did mention wanting to mend the bridge between himself and Toriel when you see the cutscene in the shop after all)
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Sep 20, 2021 18:22
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UT Toriel is more than willing to attack Flowey and Asgore when she thinks they're a threat to Frisk, so it would be pretty in-character for her.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:24
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BisbyWorl posted:Could be that a Chapter 3 B-Side has you push Toriel into an 'I will literally kill anything that threatens my child' mindset. Yeah if we're going to continue leaving (comatose) bodies behind us Kris is going to need light world help. Get mom to stall the cops for a few days while you end the world or whatever we're up to. There is a slight disconnect between us the player commanding characters to do evil acts and the fact that the player doesn't know where the plan is going more than anyone else, really. I get the "forcing the mage who joined later to power level" thing but "our" plans are going to get more complex than that I'd assume. Are we trying to build a party that is entirely under our control with no thoughts of their own? That would track with the videogame metaphors and the trance status. Lord_Magmar posted:Third option get back together with your ex for your kid's sake. If Asgore ends up showing up (he did mention wanting to mend the bridge between himself and Toriel when you see the cutscene in the shop after all) That is also possible. The player could be trying to force a "happy" ending via mind control. Kris has a troubled family? Force Toriel and Asgore back together and ignore all the reasons they split. Kris has trouble making friends? Force your classmates to obey without question Brandfarlig fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 18:25
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BisbyWorl posted:Could be that a Chapter 3 B-Side has you push Toriel into an 'I will literally kill anything that threatens my child' mindset.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:31
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Flesnolk posted:I'm honestly not sure if it's forcing them together in a romantic sense - the ferris wheel dialogue is actually optional for the route, and Noelle comes out of it way more assertive about her interest in Susie. Still creepy though. She seems to take it that way with the ring at least. Zamujasa posted:toby is the kind of motherfucker where you can't tell if this poo poo is red-strings-on-corkboard insanity or intentional five-dimension chess bullshit and i love it What is that even getting at? Araxxor posted:I also didn't bother with checking because I was busy trying not to die and end battles rather quickly. Especially before the other party members got the ability to act. Oh no I get it,I just hope it doesn't end up like undertales genocide route which is mostly boring, after this strong start. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 18:38
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Zamujasa posted:It's spr_noelle_young_silhouette_[0-3] and there isn't one for Kris that I can see, no. I didn't even know this was a thing. Thanks. I was paying attention to the conversation they were having and just briefly saw her silhouette change as she passed the building. I got blocked when I tried to go back to check it. I suppose it makes sense given the conversation topic, I just wasn't expecting it. 
Zebia fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 18:41
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Acerbatus posted:Oh no I get it,I just hope it doesn't end up like undertales genocide route which is mostly boring, after this strong start. Fox's track record in his body of work thus far makes it difficult to tell what's a fandom conspiracy theory and what really is some extremely subtle plan on his part Edit: Oh, I thought you meant that turn of phrase, not the specific thing Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 18:41
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Acerbatus posted:
I was also wondering. There's the link between Gaster and eggs and Kris is indeed a type of knife. There's also a knight but I'm not sure what L-shaped movement has to do with anything. Or the Wingdings for Egg.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:42
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Given the existence of the wrist protector (which doesn't actually protect the *real* player's wrist) and the frustration at being unable to play the piano, obviously the real level of control here is 1) The actual player at the keyboard, who is controlling 2) The hypothetical in game "player" entity, who (due to the wrist pain and piano issues is on some level reflecting Toby-as-player), who controls 3) The 'soul' inside Kris, who controls 4) Kris's body. The 'in game "player" entity' is what Moon does, with a chain of 1) You the actual player-> 2) The pajamas kid who is the in-game 'player'-> 3) The knight in Fake Moon / The invisible child in real moon The solution to the final puzzle at the end of Moon is for you the player at level (1) to select 'give up' instead of 'continue' at the end of the invisible child's adventure, which means the pajamas kid at level (2) stops playing the game, opens the door to his bedroom, and goes outside, freeing the characters at level (3) from repeating the same events over and over. Basically breaking down which level is being controlled. We're already seeing some breakdown in Deltarune from the 1->2->3->4 command structure, so it will be interesting when the whole thing falls apart. Or if Toby steps it up a notch and gets on warioware's level https://twitter.com/MarioBrothBlog/status/1438536591094472705
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Sep 20, 2021 18:44
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Brandfarlig posted:There's also a knight but I'm not sure what L-shaped movement has to do with anything. Or the Wingdings for Egg. Look at the specific movement denoted in the picture, and then look at the wingdings for egg again. or, to spell it out more clearly the Knight is actually Temmie's study partner Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 18:46
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Acerbatus posted:What is that even getting at? My comment was mostly in regards to "EGG" in wingdings being left-up-up, which as the next image in that post reveals is a representation of a knight's movement in chess chapter 1 was all about checkers, which is played on the same board type as chess, and with many references to a 'knight' eggs are also secret items in both chapters with strange properties and even stranger methods of acquiring it is entirely possible that some or all of these coincidences and relations are nonsense, fabricated by us in our attempts to explain and understand this game and its underlying plot, but it is just as possible that they are all absolutely intentional references and symbols toby deliberately put in
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Sep 20, 2021 18:49
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Pollyanna posted:Oh poo poo, Nelnal designed Tasque Manager? Nelnal also designed Sweet, Cap'n, and K_K. Meanwhile another guest artist, Splendidland, designed Poppup, Ambyu-Lance, Hacker, and that minor spinning floppy disk npc
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Sep 20, 2021 19:00
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Their art is super good, I don't know why I didn't immediately recognize it!
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Just want to reiterate that Kris' soul and the player are not the same entity. In chapter 1, when Ralsei sends the player off to look after Susie, Kris still has their soul. This made explicit in the Susie vs. Lancer fight; the soul shows up for the bullet board, but it zooms in from the top right corner of the screen (where Kris is) and goes back there on Susie's turn. What exactly this means I cannot tell you, but Toby made a note to point it out during the stream, so I assume it means something and he wanted people to notice. How to say this... I don't think I really appreciate being cast in the role of a puppeteering villain when I'm mostly here for the funny jokes and neat characters and maybe a mystery. Like if me driving around Kris bothers them so drat much lemme project my astral out of there to watch the Susie Show while Kris hangs out with the suspect goat boy who I found less creepy when I thought he was a spider.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:02
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I think you're only an outright villain in Side B
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Sep 20, 2021 19:03
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I like Noelle I want to send her roms of old RPGs. Too bad her internet is down
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Sep 20, 2021 19:05
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Flesnolk posted:I think you're only an outright villain in Side B I figure it's like undertale in that it's a different entity that drives different playthroughs i do prefer this side b greatly to genocide; a lovely person here could say they're not corrupting or manipulating an innocent, they're just helping their friend be more assertive
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Sep 20, 2021 19:17
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kaleedity posted:I figure it's like undertale in that it's a different entity that drives different playthroughs i have a feeling Toby really hated people saying that “chara” was controlling frisk in the genocide ending. There’s a reason why in this one you name the vessel, and then it asks you to input your real name while also telling you to accept all responsibilities for what happens afterwards. There’s no one else to put the blame on for choices you the player make.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:33
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Roobanguy posted:i have a feeling Toby really hated people saying that “chara” was controlling frisk in the genocide ending. There’s a reason why in this one you name the vessel, and then it asks you to input your real name while also telling you to accept all responsibilities for what happens afterwards.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:36
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I just responded "no" to that prompt. 
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Sep 20, 2021 19:36
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Hogama posted:Nah that was discarded we got hijacked again so there's no player agency our choices don't matter *has noelle freeze birdly* lol drat kris ur hosed up
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Sep 20, 2021 19:44
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One very clear parallel with undertale is a secret, probably misguided plan of some sort between the only/last human and the goat boy .
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Sep 20, 2021 19:45
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Roobanguy posted:i have a feeling Toby really hated people saying that “chara” was controlling frisk in the genocide ending. There’s a reason why in this one you name the vessel, and then it asks you to input your real name while also telling you to accept all responsibilities for what happens afterwards. There’s no one else to put the blame on for choices you the player make. Like the others said, the vessel was discarded so that's not in play... yet. That being said the game is way more blatant that it's you who's doing this if you play the role of the villain. More people seem to be getting the message so I guess that worked. Caidin posted:How to say this... I don't think I really appreciate being cast in the role of a puppeteering villain when I'm mostly here for the funny jokes and neat characters and maybe a mystery. Like if me driving around Kris bothers them so drat much lemme project my astral out of there to watch the Susie Show while Kris hangs out with the suspect goat boy who I found less creepy when I thought he was a spider. You're only really a villain if you go for that route. Otherwise you're just moving things along the railroad, and even then Kris is just frustrated that they can't be the one in control most of the time even if your intentions are benign.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:46
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Roobanguy posted:i have a feeling Toby really hated people saying that “chara” was controlling frisk in the genocide ending. There’s a reason why in this one you name the vessel, and then it asks you to input your real name while also telling you to accept all responsibilities for what happens afterwards. There’s no one else to put the blame on for choices you the player make. "Your hands are clean"
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Sep 20, 2021 19:46
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^^^ were talking about something that the player has to make conscious choices to make, while that’s only talking about something you had no input in doingAraxxor posted:Like the others said, the vessel was discarded so that's not in play... yet. only the vessel was discarded, your name wasn’t, and the agreement to take responsibility is in the game installer itself, those 2 things weren’t thrown away. There’s a reason it still uses your name on the save file. Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 19:49
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Roobanguy posted:only the vessel was discarded, your name wasn’t, and the agreement to take responsibility is in the game installer itself, those 2 things weren’t thrown away. There’s a reason it still uses your name on the save file. True. I was also taken aback when the town was named after me. Wonder how else we're involved in things. Probably provides some clues on why it's just now we're getting involved in this story. The creation of the first Dark Fountain somehow connected us to the world I guess?
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Sep 20, 2021 19:52
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The vessel's name (and presumably the rest of its data) was also saved, so it'll be interesting to see how that comes into play later.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:56
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I’m surprised how many people think chapters 3/4/5 will be similar to chapters 1 and 2, honestly. It’s a possibility, but I think it’s more likely that Toby will do something to completely break the pattern and upend the status quo in chapter 3 or 4, just as people are starting to feel like they know what to expect.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW9NiDKK-9o
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Sep 20, 2021 19:59
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Flesnolk posted:You don't get as good as he is at everything by practising. Maybe you can get to a level where you're turning out generic genre trash, but people who can actually make good things are born with it. Like Mozart looking at a page of sheet music for the first time as a kid and instantly being, well, Mozart. Yeesh, this sure is a reductive view of art and life in general. What, did you just watch Amadeus and think it was a documentary? Making art isn't something you're just born knowing, as any artist will tell you, it's a skill you develop through years of practice. Motzart didn't instantly become Motzart, he practiced constantly as a kid. Because his parents forced him. Because they made money off of forcing him to perform at a very young age. He was the Michael Jackson of his time, except not a pedophile. He also had a sister who was also forced to practice and perform and was by all accounts just as skilled as her brother but girls weren't really allowed to do stuff like "make art" back then so when she became an adult and her parents could no longer make money from the novelty act of a young girl playing the piano she was married off and no longer allowed to play or compose music. And that concludes your history lesson for the day.
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Sep 20, 2021 20:07
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Apparently it's possible to use SnowGrave on normal enemies without hacking (and see it in the menu); defeat Berdly with normal ice moves, which cancels the Side B route, but keeps Noelle and her SnowGrave spell. You can then go back to an earlier area and touch the cheese, which spawns a Maus encounter. That's not to say that it isn't a glitch (she doesn't have her unique animation or protests against using it), but now you can see it without cheating 
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Sep 20, 2021 20:08
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CYBEReris posted:The contextualization of sparing as recruitment and the fact that all the recruits call you "boss" makes me think maybe the pacifism route will become more than it seems Ralsei is going to form Outer Heaven
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Sep 20, 2021 20:21
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Bad news guys, Ralsei is dead https://twitter.com/Maximus123458/status/1440022802896142339
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Sep 20, 2021 20:25
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I haven't really gotten too deep into the postgame - still need to do Route B - but I just realized something. Postgame spoilers: Noelle talks about someone called Dess, who doesn't seem to be around anymore. One of the words you spell during that chat is December, which (unless I missed it) had some of its letters covered up during the cutscene, so it's never completely spelled. There's also Berdly's flashback about the spelling bee, and Noelle's beating him until she's asked to spell December - at which point she seems to break down. Is...Is Dess short for December? And if so, what happened? 
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Sep 20, 2021 20:28
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Pollyanna posted:I haven't really gotten too deep into the postgame - still need to do Route B - but I just realized something. Postgame spoilers: Almost assuredly, and probably nothing good.
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Sep 20, 2021 20:31
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Dess is (was?) Noelle's sister, Rudi mentions her in the previous chapter
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Sep 20, 2021 20:34
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