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In regards to the dragon, it seems that should the players choose to chase it, there would be plenty of time to catch up. It flies quickly but leveling a town takes time. I'd dare say they could probably take care of Sunblight's Fortress first and still have time to intercept. Unless there's something I'm missing. As for motivations, I'm considering requiring new characters instead of starting at level 5. Explicitly telling PCs to make characters that care about Ten Towns and are motivated to save it would go a long way I think. It'd also let us use the Secrets system as well. Bridging the disparate quests is a bigger concern. Linking the everlasting winter, Auril, and Ythrin is important (so I've read).
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Sep 20, 2021 05:07
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The problem is thus: https://www.reddit.com/r/rimeofthefrostmaiden/comments/iv4rpz/dragon_scourge_timetables_and_problems_12/ The dragon can actually gently caress up most of the dale by design because of how slow dogs and axe beaks are in comparison (and they need to rest) with no option to save any of the lower towns. Our DM offered us zombie dogs/axebeaks that didn't need to rest to help prevent that if we so chose after clearing the fortress out.
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Sep 20, 2021 05:11
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An idea I plan to implement for the Rime campaign I'm running is to have The dragon make to Dougan's Hole before the party can catch up with it, but have Avarice and some of the Knights of the Black Sword show up and evacuate the citizens and do some damage to the dragon. I figure it'll be a good way to set-up Avarice as a major player in the story moving forward and the good PR she gets from rescuing the town will make her a more formidable foe once the party is racing her to uncover the Lost City.
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Sep 20, 2021 05:12
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That's some good stuff, thanks. Reading that post my first thought was that the speed of the dogs was criminally underrated. The zombie dogs / axe beak though is an elegant solution that is also dripping with atmosphere. Any recommendations for trying Auril and Ythryn? Has anyone tried the fixes posted on reddit (mainly this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/rimeofthefrostmaiden/comments/iultgt/my_grand_rework_of_rime_of_the_frostmaiden/)? I've also taken a look at a lot of the sandbox quests and figure I may limit my party to quests that suit their playstyles more. I learned a lesson running LMoP not to quest dump players. Two to three meaningful choices is the sweet spot I feel.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:04
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Was there ever any lore reason why magic users can only cast X spells per day, or just game mechanics? It be really funny if someone was teaching at a magic school and ran out of spells with 3 lessons left in the day
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Sep 20, 2021 07:06
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Was there ever any lore reason why magic users can only cast X spells per day, or just game mechanics? Jack Vance's novel The Dying Earth was an inspiration when the rules of D&D were being organized. In it spells are forgotten when cast and must be re-learned. 3rd edition changed from "memorizing" spells for the day to "preparing" them, which I prefer just because that's how spells work in Roger Zelazny's Amber series, which I read as a formative time of my imagination. In those the wizard casts most of the spell in preparation but leaves some vital hook unspoken, so that with just a word and a gesture he can complete it later on even under pressure. Then 4th onward moved beyond that. 5e is... call it "Vancian but flexible" with spell slots as a holdover but the caster getting to choose in the moment which prepared spells to use. Bruceski fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 07:14
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Was there ever any lore reason why magic users can only cast X spells per day, or just game mechanics? it was originally taken from a series of stories called The Dying Earth, by Jack Vance (hence why it's called Vancian casting) here's a reddit thread going over how D&D's take on it differs from Vance's stories https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/8b6efd/tales_of_the_dying_earth_vancian_magic/ In D&D lore prior to 5e (as 5e changed how the magic system works a lot) it was called preparing or memorizing a spell, studying its incantations/materials/movements and the mechanism of the spell so that you could release it quite a bit more quickly from memory with a trigger phrase or by completing the spell. Preparing spells is mentally and physically taxing, so there's only so much one person can do in one day before needing to rest. D&D didn't concern itself with the mechanics of "magic schools" much - you've usually had some equivalent to ritual magic that can be cast outside of the spell slot system but at increased time and effort, or magic places that allowed you to draw upon extra power and gain more spell casts.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:15
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Bruceski posted:Jack Vance's novel The Dying Earth was an inspiration when the rules of D&D were being organized. In it spells are forgotten when cast and must be re-learned. Which doesn't really match into the 5e spell system. Come to think of it, if Vance's memory wiping was what drives spell casting even in 2nd and 3rd edition, how on earth would you memorize multiple castings of the same spell? It's not like you can contain multiple memorizations of the same document in your head.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:17
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Mr. Lobe posted:Which doesn't really match into the 5e spell system. "I don't remember how to cast Fireball, but I can still throw a firebalt!"
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Sep 20, 2021 07:22
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Arivia posted:it was originally taken from a series of stories called The Dying Earth, by Jack Vance (hence why it's called Vancian casting) here's a reddit thread going over how D&D's take on it differs from Vance's stories https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/8b6efd/tales_of_the_dying_earth_vancian_magic/ I know about the Vancian inspiration, never got around to reading it though. I guess what I was missing is that magic is apparently that taxing. Any wizard worth his salt should be able to constantly spam fireball imo By magic school, I meant a literal school where one learns magic
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Sep 20, 2021 07:48
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:It be really funny if someone was teaching at a magic school and ran out of spells with 3 lessons left in the day So there would at least be time for maths, history, and languages at D&D Not-Hogwarts! 
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Sep 20, 2021 07:57
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Skyl3lazer posted:Yeah I guess the tool I'm imagining is just a web version of the fillable PDF that just has options in the dropdowns. Like, I don't need the rules text for what XYZ class feature does, just the name of it to be listed under 'features,' know what I mean? Use pcgen and google some content for it bing bong done you’re smart enough to figure it out from there
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Sep 20, 2021 10:32
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A lot of computer games use regenerating mana points and you can cast whatever spells you have mana for, but I think that would be a huge hassle for a tabletop game. "Everybody roll for initiative. Wizard it has been 47 minutes since the last time you cast a spell, so you have recovered 3 mana points." Vancian magic may be limiting, but it is simple to use at the table.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:42
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Well spell slots are universal so that suggests something akin to magical oomph is at play for all casters. Since it has no other effect on a character other than, "can't cast a spell again without a good nap" one must assume that either sleep itself is mystically related to refreshing spell power somehow or else something you do upon waking or while undisturbed is how you refresh the spell slots. The latter is semicanonical but technically refers only to how spells are prepared (for classes that care about preparing them) not how the slots are refreshed. In other words spell slots make no sense and there is no canonical logic that I'm aware of about what they actually represent.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:49
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Mendrian posted:Well spell slots are universal so that suggests something akin to magical oomph is at play for all casters. Since it has no other effect on a character other than, "can't cast a spell again without a good nap" one must assume that either sleep itself is mystically related to refreshing spell power somehow or else something you do upon waking or while undisturbed is how you refresh the spell slots. The latter is semicanonical but technically refers only to how spells are prepared (for classes that care about preparing them) not how the slots are refreshed. Haven't there also been references where spell slots recharge at dawn or something? In The Order of the Stick a cleric gets turned into a vampire, and swaps from getting his spells at dawn to getting them at dusk. That was 3.5 edition. Could adventurers switch to a 12 hour day to get twice as many spells? Adventure for 4 hours, sleep for 8, repeat.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:58
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Facebook Aunt posted:Haven't there also been references where spell slots recharge at dawn or something? In The Order of the Stick a cleric gets turned into a vampire, and swaps from getting his spells at dawn to getting them at dusk. That was 3.5 edition. You need a long rest to refresh your spell slots and pick which spells you have prepared. You can only take a long rest once every 24 hours. Time of day isn't really important, since there's no day or night in a dungeon. DnD spell casting has a ton of flaws, but really the biggest one is balancing encounters in the adventure day so that spell casters don't just dominate the encounters involved. Even when they are balanced, the casters still feel like they have the most effect since their spell pretty much determine the overall battle flow of an encounter.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:06
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The one thing is that the Dying Earth inspiration doesn't quite explain the number/limits of spell slots as, in those books, spells are both a lot more powerful and much more difficult to get into your head. Even the most powerful mages of the Dying Earth stories are only able to keep, like, four or five spells stored in their memory at one time. By the time we start to get stories focusing entirely on wizard characters (The Rialto the Marvelous stories) we find out that wizards actually don't do a lot of Vancian casting and instead mostly get stuff done by magical beings called sandestins that are held in fealty to individual wizards through contracts and debt. The eventual caster supremacy of D&D is especially ironic given that a major conceit of the fiction that inspired its magic system is that wizards are almost universally ineffectual assholes who mostly get other people to do poo poo for them. The entire reason Rhialto is a focal character in alter stories is that he's the only wizard in his little alliance who's even midway competent and focuses on things except squabbling with the other members of his order.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:08
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Mr. Lobe posted:Which doesn't really match into the 5e spell system. Because you're not actually memorizing the spell. You're storing a magical artillery shell inside your brain, consisting of not just the words but also the magical potential energy associated with it. Casting it simply releases the magical energy you stored up. You can store several versions of the same spell because they are discrete units. Learning spells during rest is more akin to reloading your gun than memorizing some text. ETA: Clerics and other Wisdom-based casters get their spell energy directly from their diety/demon/whoever upon casting, so they just have to memorize the incantation. Casting a spell is then invoking the external power so they don't have to preload their spells. Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 15:12
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a reoccurring thing i do in every setting i make for dnd like games is i take inspiration from real world physics on magic, in that magic users are constantly flummoxed and baffled by the way magic works and try desperately to figure out why things are the way they are. wizards study the arcane because it seemingly makes absolutely no sense.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:59
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Deteriorata posted:Because you're not actually memorizing the spell. You're storing a magical artillery shell inside your brain, consisting of not just the words but also the magical potential energy associated with it. Casting it simply releases the magical energy you stored up. You can store several versions of the same spell because they are discrete units. yes that is my point, it's not actually like in Jack Vance's Dying Earth series, where to cast a spell you have to memorize it, and then casting it erases it from your brain. it is like as you described, you basically load magical bullets into the barrel that is your brain which are then fired through the use of specific magical words, gestures, and reagents
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Sep 20, 2021 16:01
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:By magic school, I meant a literal school where one learns magic That's what I meant as well. D&D has never really concerned itself with how a "magic school" would work. At least until Strixhaven.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:45
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Very little magic in D&D fiction works like it does in game, even in FR where you have in-fiction events to explain why certain classes are no longer available. Usually when wizards run out of magic spells, it's described as them being out of power or too drained or too tired to cast any more spells. Dark Sun's fiction explicitly links how many spells one can cast to how much life energy one can pull from the surroundings. What I'm saying is: the "Vancian" magic in D&D should be looked at as a game abstraction just like most of the other mechanics.
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Sep 20, 2021 19:49
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PeterWeller posted:Very little magic in D&D fiction works like it does in game, even in FR where you have in-fiction events to explain why certain classes are no longer available. Usually when wizards run out of magic spells, it's described as them being out of power or too drained or too tired to cast any more spells. Dark Sun's fiction explicitly links how many spells one can cast to how much life energy one can pull from the surroundings. The one D&D fiction I can think of that does represent the game's casting systems accurately is when Vangerdahast is trapped in Grodd in Death of a Dragon. That plotline specifically hinges on Ol Vangey being completely tapped out and running out of resources though, so the accuracy was more important than "whoops Raistlin's out of magic missiles for today."
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Sep 20, 2021 19:59
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PeterWeller posted:What I'm saying is: the "Vancian" magic in D&D should be looked at as a game abstraction just like most of the other mechanics. Well yes of course but I have players at my table who are interested in how it feels different to be, say, a Wizard vs a Sorcerer or how cast making looks or what it feels like to be out of spells and it is interesting to explore what the mechanics imply. It's unnecessary and it's obviously a mechanical abstraction, so it's not a huge deal, it's just a neat line of thought.
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Sep 20, 2021 20:19
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Mendrian posted:Well yes of course but I have players at my table who are interested in how it feels different to be, say, a Wizard vs a Sorcerer or how cast making looks or what it feels like to be out of spells and it is interesting to explore what the mechanics imply. It's unnecessary and it's obviously a mechanical abstraction, so it's not a huge deal, it's just a neat line of thought. Casters can forget they have spells memorized, just like the players can. That’s a fun avenue to explore.
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Sep 20, 2021 20:54
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Mendrian posted:Well yes of course but I have players at my table who are interested in how it feels different to be, say, a Wizard vs a Sorcerer or how cast making looks or what it feels like to be out of spells and it is interesting to explore what the mechanics imply. It's unnecessary and it's obviously a mechanical abstraction, so it's not a huge deal, it's just a neat line of thought. Wizards have to pick and choose, sorcerers can spray and pray
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Sep 20, 2021 21:02
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Mendrian posted:Well yes of course but I have players at my table who are interested in how it feels different to be, say, a Wizard vs a Sorcerer or how cast making looks or what it feels like to be out of spells and it is interesting to explore what the mechanics imply. It's unnecessary and it's obviously a mechanical abstraction, so it's not a huge deal, it's just a neat line of thought. Oh my bad. I'm not asking y'all to shut this conversation down. An amusing note regarding wizard and sorcerer canon: the Return of the Archwizards trilogy is the FR novel series that explains why the Netherese city of Shade returns, and it also explains why sorcerers exist in 3E Faerun. The explanation is that there were always sorcerers in the Realms, but sorcerers didn't know that they were sorcerers and just spent all this time studying and learning spells like wizards when they didn't have to.
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Sep 20, 2021 21:41
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Mendrian posted:Well yes of course but I have players at my table who are interested in how it feels different to be, say, a Wizard vs a Sorcerer or how cast making looks or what it feels like to be out of spells and it is interesting to explore what the mechanics imply. It's unnecessary and it's obviously a mechanical abstraction, so it's not a huge deal, it's just a neat line of thought. I would say sorcerers probably feel a lot more like they are using their body as a magical battery, and wizards feel a lot more like they are trying to do the very tricky work of mentally manipulating a vast network of energy outside of themselves. Both are exhausting to sustain at greater levels of intensity, but it's the exhaustion of running a marathon vs the exhaustion of spending a day taking the MCATS or something. I'd think sorcerers would feel their depletion a lot more physically, and a spent wizard would probably have a harder time maintaining a clear train of thought.
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Sep 20, 2021 22:08
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I think 3e D&D actually explained the whole magic memorization is like loading a gun because I think it explicitly says that preparing a spell for a wizard is like pre-casting it with an established break point where you can hold it in that nearly finished state and basically just finish the final step and fire it off and your spell slots were just a representation of how much magical power you're capable of sustaining in a state like that. I actually do kind of like the idea of wizard casting versus sorcerer casting in a lore sense but I don't think D&D is very interested in actually getting into the details of how magic works beyond mechanical sacred cows where we have to keep calling them spell slots even though they don't work like slots anymore.
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Sep 20, 2021 22:17
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Spellcasting is edging, got it.
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Sep 21, 2021 00:06
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Drewjitsu posted:Spellcasting is edging, got it. if you don't get aroused looking at your character sheet you're playing the wrong game, i hope this helps
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Sep 21, 2021 00:24
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Glagha posted:I think 3e D&D actually explained the whole magic memorization is like loading a gun because I think it explicitly says that preparing a spell for a wizard is like pre-casting it with an established break point where you can hold it in that nearly finished state and basically just finish the final step and fire it off and your spell slots were just a representation of how much magical power you're capable of sustaining in a state like that. I actually do kind of like the idea of wizard casting versus sorcerer casting in a lore sense but I don't think D&D is very interested in actually getting into the details of how magic works beyond mechanical sacred cows where we have to keep calling them spell slots even though they don't work like slots anymore. This would also help explain why casting depletes a resource for Wizards but doesn't actually make them any more tired (Exhaustion). It does nothing to explain the process for Sorcerers/Bards/Etc unfortunately. I like the idea that casting depletes some inner resource but I wish it were more explicit. I suppose I could write a little thing about it.
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Sep 21, 2021 00:24
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Facebook Aunt posted:A lot of computer games use regenerating mana points and you can cast whatever spells you have mana for, but I think that would be a huge hassle for a tabletop game. "Everybody roll for initiative. Wizard it has been 47 minutes since the last time you cast a spell, so you have recovered 3 mana points." Depends how the mana regenerates. If you're playing e.g. a quasi warlock with only one spell slot but it half fills at the start of each of your turn it could work. If you take a lot of care with the spell list and long term spells...
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Sep 21, 2021 03:50
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Arivia posted:if you don't get aroused looking at your character sheet you're playing the wrong game, i hope this helps "Can I seduce the character sheet?" 
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Sep 21, 2021 04:25
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Mendrian posted:It does nothing to explain the process for Sorcerers/Bards/Etc unfortunately. I like the idea that casting depletes some inner resource but I wish it were more explicit. I suppose I could write a little thing about it. Sorcerers probably do have some sort of magical, spiritual essence or something they're consuming because of how their magic works but bards have always annoyed me because I don't think any edition has made any actual attempt at explaining how bard magic works. I think there's some vague talk about how they get spells through knowledge of magical secrets and lore but like, they work mechanically differently than wizards even though you would think they would do magic the same way if they're studying magic so I dunno.
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Sep 21, 2021 13:46
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Glagha posted:Sorcerers probably do have some sort of magical, spiritual essence or something they're consuming because of how their magic works but bards have always annoyed me because I don't think any edition has made any actual attempt at explaining how bard magic works. I think there's some vague talk about how they get spells through knowledge of magical secrets and lore but like, they work mechanically differently than wizards even though you would think they would do magic the same way if they're studying magic so I dunno. In 2E it was pretty explicit that Bards practiced magic exactly like Wizards, they just learned their spells through less rigorous means and couldn't specialize because they didn't have formal training. It's been a while, but I think in 1E you had to be a dual or multi-class mage to even become a Bard. 4E was pretty clear on Bard Powers. It was 3.x that started the "who knows how Bards get magic?!" trend and 5E picked it back up.
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Sep 21, 2021 14:46
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Glagha posted:Sorcerers probably do have some sort of magical, spiritual essence or something they're consuming because of how their magic works but bards have always annoyed me because I don't think any edition has made any actual attempt at explaining how bard magic works. I think there's some vague talk about how they get spells through knowledge of magical secrets and lore but like, they work mechanically differently than wizards even though you would think they would do magic the same way if they're studying magic so I dunno. The original bard in 1e had 8 levels of fighter, 4 levels of thief, and then progressed as a druid. His magic then came as a form of cleric, from a god of nature. I think they remained in later editions as a sort of druidish caster, but I've not had a lot of experience with them.
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Sep 21, 2021 14:51
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Deteriorata posted:The original bard in 1e had 8 levels of fighter, 4 levels of thief, and then progressed as a druid. His magic then came as a form of cleric, from a god of nature. Devorum has it right with the 2E bard. They were basically thieves who traded the lock picking and trap springing for a slow wizard spell progression and some lore and magic song abilities. Then 3E made them charisma casters and leaned harder on the lore and magic song abilities and they began the evolution into the party face character they are today.
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Sep 21, 2021 15:11
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How is Dragon of Icespire Peak? My group (me DMing, my daughter, her friend and dad) are going to be finishing up Phandalin soon, and my daughter wants to give DMing a try. So I guess: is it good / playable, and if so, if people have been through Phandalin before, will it spoil it or be too "samey"?
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Sep 21, 2021 15:48
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Lumpy posted:How is Dragon of Icespire Peak? My group (me DMing, my daughter, her friend and dad) are going to be finishing up Phandalin soon, and my daughter wants to give DMing a try. So I guess: is it good / playable, and if so, if people have been through Phandalin before, will it spoil it or be too "samey"? I've been very unimpressed by it, and it seems particularly unsuited for a new DM. (I'm just getting to the final fight in it; I'm DM'ing for my kids.. I've rambled on about it in a few earlier posts). There's very little story/setting material to work with - mostly just encounters on blank slates. And those encounters assume a 1-5 level progression, so if you're continuing with the same characters you'd need to adjust all that. There's a couple scenarios you could pull out (Gnomengarde, Axeholm), but overall I'd just look for something else.
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Sep 21, 2021 16:46
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