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Look on the brightside, at least I get to be smugly right for my prediction that Kieth would use his position to ensure the left can't win a leadership election again and anyone who fell for his thing was very naïve indeed.
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Sep 21, 2021 09:44
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Yeah, just being an MP is pretty sweet, so long as you're an establishment-supporting MP who the press'll leave alone: £80k salary, effectively unlimited expenses on top of that, lots of opportunities to make even more on the side and limitless occasions where you can pompously hold forth to dutifully applauding audiences. If you're that sort of centrist MP, you are going to be actively infuriated by troublesome Lefties who keep attempting to derail the gravy train by confronting powerful interest groups and actually trying to change things.
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Sep 21, 2021 09:45
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keep punching joe posted:live high on the hog 
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Sep 21, 2021 09:47
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Christ, it was only a few years ago but that looks like a photo from another era lol
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Sep 21, 2021 09:54
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It doesn't help that it looks like a colorized photo of Edwardian grave robbers.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:01
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Feeling nostalgic for that gilded aged of 2010.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:06
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https://twitter.com/scobie/status/1440065173000114178
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Sep 21, 2021 10:10
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forkboy84 posted:Look on the brightside, at least I get to be smugly right for my prediction that Kieth would use his position to ensure the left can't win a leadership election again and anyone who fell for his thing was very naïve indeed. Hearty lmao if they try to rig the voting system again and it catapults another leftist into power
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Sep 21, 2021 10:38
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Pistol_Pete posted:Yeah, just being an MP is pretty sweet, so long as you're an establishment-supporting MP who the press'll leave alone: £80k salary, effectively unlimited expenses on top of that, lots of opportunities to make even more on the side and limitless occasions where you can pompously hold forth to dutifully applauding audiences. I’m not sure I buy into the “centrist MPs are only in it for themselves” argument. I think in most cases they genuinely believe that they’re right, they’re sensible, leftwing policies will scare away voters, etc. Similarly I don’t think Starmer’s mission is to entrench the Tories. I think he really wants a Labour government - but I am not sure he can say why. The personal enrichment angle might be a strong factor in some cases but if you are really in it for that surely being a Tory’s more lucrative?
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Sep 21, 2021 10:40
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It helps to be posher if you want to be a Tory. It’s also a lot more difficult to pretend you aren’t a piece of human dog poo poo.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:46
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No point being a Tory in Scotland from about 1992 onward, anyone with centrist political aspirations had to either move south or become Labour MPs (Lib Dems if you lived in the highlands). * Yes I know the SNP are centrist as gently caress now, but remember that before they fluked their way into government they were firmly the fringe lunatic party. keep punching joe fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 10:51
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therattle posted:I’m not sure I buy into the “centrist MPs are only in it for themselves” argument. I think in most cases they genuinely believe that they’re right, they’re sensible, leftwing policies will scare away voters, etc. Similarly I don’t think Starmer’s mission is to entrench the Tories. I think he really wants a Labour government - but I am not sure he can say why. The personal enrichment angle might be a strong factor in some cases but if you are really in it for that surely being a Tory’s more lucrative? Exactly, most centrist MPs are like Zoe Williams from that article on the last page - pretty much lacking in any empathy or realisation of their own privilege, only really caring about their own inconvenience or bottom line, but not actively trying to enrich themselves either.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:52
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Centrist politicians see themselves as being sensible people who care for society, and being a centrist politician just happens to be a way to get rich whilst stroking yourself off about what a good person you are. They don't think/believe that they're just in it for themselves, but they definitely are.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:54
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OwlFancier posted:I really genuinely don't think they do, I'm sure they would like to win but in much the same way that I would prefer to see good ideas represented even if it does not lead to immediate electoral success, they care far more about seeing... basically the most miserable and lovely ideas and people in charge and would happily throw everyone else into a woodchipper to see it happen. The raw emotion of Lived Experience screams out from every word. Jel Shaker posted:not sure if it’s a bit late but moneysavingexpert let’s you compare energy tarifs and if you join their “club” you can change your provider with fixed rates , sometimes with a few tenners of cashback thrown in Thanks. I did look at them a while ago when I was mulling changing and Octopus came top there. I don't know what that message 'uh there's a problem phone us' last night was because this morning I have emails from them saying it's all happening.
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Sep 21, 2021 10:58
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that old craftywank just has a thing about big fat johnson pissing through letterboxes imo
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Sep 21, 2021 11:08
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Borrovan posted:Centrist politicians see themselves as being sensible people who care for society, and being a centrist politician just happens to be a way to get rich whilst stroking yourself off about what a good person you are. They don't think/believe that they're just in it for themselves, but they definitely are. Yeah, that's the way I'd put it: these are the sort of people who say that they have no ideology and actually believe it: they're very unreflective and their situation encourages them to be unreflective.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:09
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therattle posted:I’m not sure I buy into the “centrist MPs are only in it for themselves” argument. I think in most cases they genuinely believe that they’re right, they’re sensible, leftwing policies will scare away voters, etc. What’s the quote about how hard it is to understand an idea when your salary depends on not understanding it? MP’s salaries are not just unusually high, they are unusually _dependant_. Comparable middle class jobs don’t have performance reviews every few years that result in not just the sack, but very limited prospects of a comparable job. I wonder if politics would work better if instead of being sacked on losing an election, MPs just got relegated to the Welsh assembly or something.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:16
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Seems deeply unfair to Wales. Also I highly object to the notion that losing an election puts you out of work as an MP, they all go on to do other nothing jobs being hired onto some company or other. Personally I think politics would be improved if losing an election got you thrown in a pit full of alligators.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:17
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Send them to set up a rival administration in Sealand or Rockall.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:18
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therattle posted:I’m not sure I buy into the “centrist MPs are only in it for themselves” argument. I think in most cases they genuinely believe that they’re right, they’re sensible, leftwing policies will scare away voters, etc. Similarly I don’t think Starmer’s mission is to entrench the Tories. I think he really wants a Labour government - but I am not sure he can say why. The personal enrichment angle might be a strong factor in some cases but if you are really in it for that surely being a Tory’s more lucrative? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it. " The centrist believe they're right because their position has propelled them to the heights of power. It can't possibly be because its important for capitalist interests that they be there. Skills wallets and 5p bags are clearly the pressing issues of the masses.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:20
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Pistol_Pete posted:Christ, it was only a few years ago but that looks like a photo from another era lol I mean, it absolutely was, y'know? For as shite as the last eleven (twenty) (thirty) (forty) years overall have been there's definitely pre-2016 and post-2016, and the difference is pretty stark. At least in my mind anyway
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Sep 21, 2021 11:26
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2016 seemed to be when a lot more people finally realized how poo poo everything's been and poo poo it had managed to get.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:29
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https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1440257451979276301 So is there any chance in lefty Labour MPs moving now to kick out Starmer before he changes the rules in his favour?
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Sep 21, 2021 11:31
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radmonger posted:
Mostly they get relegated to the Conference. Since we're running a football analogy, I do like the thought of rebranding the House of Lords as the Westminster Premier League and you only get promoted to it if you win enough elections. The Commons can stay as it is, though - it already has enough divisions.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:33
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keep punching joe posted:https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1440257451979276301 There aren't 40 lefty Labour MPs and most of the ones that do exist are cowards I'm sure John McDonnell will do a tweet and maybe write a letter though.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:34
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radmonger posted:MP’s salaries are not just unusually high, they are unusually _dependant_. Comparable middle class jobs don’t have performance reviews every few years that result in not just the sack, but very limited prospects of a comparable job. As well as Owl's point about ex-MPs' career opportunities, it should be noted that most MPs have safe seats that they can expect to be elected to no matter how dreadful their performance.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:39
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radmonger posted:What’s the quote about how hard it is to understand an idea when your salary depends on not understanding it? *In fact the bigger problems are probably that the media barons have a vested interest in politicians being corrupt, so anything that starts with "we have to pay MPs more" would get dragged through so much mud it wouldn't make it to first reading. Either way, good idea but unrealistic imo.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:39
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OwlFancier posted:Seems deeply unfair to Wales. That would be those who spent their time as an MP cultivating links with the kind of company that needs a full time ex-politician on retainer to handle scandals. Which is kind of the problem. MPs used to be entirely amateur, leading to a Parliament mostly made up of rich people’s stupider relatives. After the relevant reforms, it’s more or less now a working-class job; do it or get sacked. But the people doing it mostly consider themselves to be middle class, so don’t accept that. Something has to give. quote:Personally I think politics would be improved if losing an election got you thrown in a pit full of alligators. I mean, I’m pretty sure I could fail to grasp anything if that was the alternative. Though I would like to think I would eventually get eaten, with my last words being something like ‘that is not how percentages work’.
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Sep 21, 2021 11:50
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peanut- posted:This guy is a twat, but it's seems notable that even he's asking wtf Labour are doing This has to be performative stupidity https://twitter.com/stigabell/status/1440266079587094529?s=21
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Sep 21, 2021 11:58
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What is so stupid about it?
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Sep 21, 2021 12:09
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radmonger posted:I wonder if politics would work better if instead of being sacked on losing an election, MPs just got relegated to the Welsh assembly or something. Well, it'd keep them out of trouble because those fuckers have never actively done anything.
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Sep 21, 2021 12:09
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https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1440270177694748674?s=19
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Sep 21, 2021 12:16
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NotJustANumber99 posted:What is so stupid about it? Because Stephen Abell is a man who has worked in the media for a decade & wrote a book called "How Britain Really Works" & transparently doesn't understand how Britain works.
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Sep 21, 2021 12:18
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radmonger posted:After the relevant reforms, it’s more or less now a working-class job; do it or get sacked. But the people doing it mostly consider themselves to be middle class, so don’t accept that. Something has to give. No it isn't not remotely. If you are working class you are dependent on selling your labour to a boss who will fire you if you are not profiting him enough. If you are a politician you are afforded your position by the labour of hundreds of mostly volunteers and other people who pay to give you a job, and voters who are largely captive because your party is one of a couple of viable ones with a monopoly on being able to be elected, likely a quite heavy local monopoly at that, your best interests, therefore, are to enforce that monopoly by keeping all political alternatives invalid, cultivating favour within the party to ensure resources are allocated to you in the event of an election, and exploiting voluntary labour as much as possible. Being in the government is literally incompatible with being working class, being an MP is by definition not working class, they stop being that the minute they take the job and their interests change accordingly. Politicians gain and hold their position by exploiting other people, and there's a word for people who do that. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 12:18
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radmonger posted:That would be those who spent their time as an MP cultivating links with the kind of company that needs a full time ex-politician on retainer to handle scandals. Which is kind of the problem. I don't understand what you mean when you say "Working-Class". Because it's loving not. Not remotely.
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Sep 21, 2021 12:19
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Can't wait for Ken Loach to make a devastating social realist drama about Tory MPs struggling to refinance their third home
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Sep 21, 2021 12:22
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NotJustANumber99 posted:What is so stupid about it? Cos the ‘why’ should be patently obvious to anyone paying any attention and is capable of being honest with themselves, the Labour leadership don’t give a poo poo unless it’s useful for considering power over the party
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Sep 21, 2021 12:41
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NotJustANumber99 posted:What is so stupid about it? These are supposed well-informed media commentators who are apparently unable to comprehend a Labour leadership that might prioritize crushing the left of the party over opposing the government on it's many abject failures of policy. The only question is whether it's all performative or whether they really are that silly and gullible (as it's the uk media, either could be the case).
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Sep 21, 2021 12:43
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On that note https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1440075239585505281
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Sep 21, 2021 12:48
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"democratically optimal" for power to be concentrated in as few people as possible
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Sep 21, 2021 12:52
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