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sethsez posted:The only real issue I have with the original Matrix is that it really doesn't earn its romance at the end. And the next two movies don't really elaborate on it because they seem to think the first movie already covered that. Matrix 1 doesn't really have a romance narrative because Trinity already loves Neo at the start of the movie. It's in the opening voiceover. The narrative is about Trinity overcoming her fear of expressing herself. Any romance occurs in the gap between films.
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Sep 21, 2021 16:16
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Neo is the One because Trinity loves him, not vice versa. She loves him for his hacking abilities (and vice versa).
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Sep 21, 2021 16:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Smith obviously didn’t expect to be blown up at the end of the first film. So your evidence that he’s lying is that he isn’t lying, but he’s arrogant. Smith says something then does the opposite. 
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Sep 21, 2021 17:05
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The United States posted:https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/i-think-the-original-matrix-is-pretty
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Sep 21, 2021 17:29
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Alhazred posted:Smith says something then does the opposite. CONCORDANTLY!
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Sep 21, 2021 17:46
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Alhazred posted:Smith says something then does the opposite. No he doesn't. "I must get out of here. I must get free, and in this mind is the key - my key. Once Zion is destroyed, there is no need for me to be here." In the sequel, Smith repeatedly gloats about being free (of 'the system'), gets out of the simulation by possessing the Bane, and works to destroy Zion from the inside.
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Sep 21, 2021 18:25
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Abner Assington posted:The author sounds like a tragically unfun person.
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Sep 21, 2021 18:25
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Neo and Trinity are a perfect t4t relationship and nothing needs to be further elaborated.
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Sep 21, 2021 18:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No he doesn't. I forgot that was that guy's name lmao
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Sep 21, 2021 18:48
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sethsez posted:The only real issue I have with the original Matrix is that it really doesn't earn its romance at the end. And the next two movies don't really elaborate on it because they seem to think the first movie already covered that. The woman whose only in the story specifically to love the main character because the Oracle/God/Writer told her to? She seems like a bad character in an unearned romance? Whaaaa? Zesty fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 19:55
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In the Matrix Online in which Morpheus died wasn't Trinity revealed to be a computer program herself? Which, uh, raises questions.
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Sep 21, 2021 20:05
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The United States posted:In the Matrix Online in which Morpheus died wasn't Trinity revealed to be a computer program herself? Taken from another source Despite having "died" during the course of the third film, Trinity made a return to the series in the official continuation, The Matrix Online. Taking on a major role in the game's final chapters it is revealed both she and Neo are actually the culmination of decades of Machine research into translating human DNA perfectly into Machine code, allowing them to interface directly with technology without the need for simulated interfaces. Originally developed by The Oracle, this program is called The Biological Interface Program and is strongly sought after by the Oligarchy as a means to transfer their digital minds to physical bodies instead of the mechanical androids they had developed. Without a physical form, Trinity takes the appearance of a floating figure made of golden code when within The Matrix. Initially distraught with her condition, she eventually finds solace in the fact her existence is the key to finally rebooting the Matrix and erasing Oligarch override control once and for all. She ultimately meets her end in the Source of The Matrix, merging with a human inside the core of the Machine code base itself, combining the three core groups; Man, Machine and Program. This initializes the final reboot sequence, removing the Oligarch control and allowing the Machines to finally exist without fear of cruel masters.
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Sep 21, 2021 20:13
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God I wish I had played that game lol
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Sep 21, 2021 20:30
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"Oligarch" is an interesting choice. Like I'm all for anticapitalism, but if they're oligarchs, what kind of wealth do they have? Is there money? Can the Merovingian earn enough $Coppertops to join the Oligarchy?
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Sep 21, 2021 20:46
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Imagine if that had made it into the movies and you had characters solemnly discussing "the Bip". "Trinity was a product of the Bip." "Neo was brought back to us by the Bip." Second only to "Supreme Leader Snoke" as a name no serious actor should ever have to say.
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Sep 21, 2021 20:56
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A prequel to MCU's Blip
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Sep 21, 2021 21:04
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MacheteZombie posted:Taken from another source Does Mouse come back tho?
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Sep 21, 2021 21:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No he doesn't. To sorta expand on this, in Smith's first big scene with Neo in Reloaded, he smugly calls himself a "new man, unplugged." But that's bitterly ironic, because he immediately goes on describe himself and Neo as being "apparently free", and goes on to say, "We're not here because we're free; we're here because we're not free." He goes on to diagnose both himself and Neo as being slaves to "purpose". In Neo's case, he seems to mean his on-rails journey to the Source and the fulfilment of the Architect's plans. In his own case, he means his own obsession with destroying Neo as revenge for being bested at the end of the first film, which seems to have totally obliterated his sense of self (and sanity). He's aware of his own obsessive drive - "I think of nothing else" - and his compulsive propagation throughout both worlds seems as much a form of self-destruction as anything else. Presumably, he'll crash along with the Matrix. If he expands into the Machine City and Zion, he'll destroy those societies and himself along with them. That seems like the only kind of freedom he can really envisage: "The purpose of life is to end." I love Smith, and Hugo Weaving's ridiculous, hammy performance. Every time he turns up unexpectedly in Reloaded, I want to shout out "oh no!' like he's a villain in a pantomime 
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Sep 21, 2021 22:07
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Colonel Whitey posted:Let Kojima make a Matrix game Love that Hideo. Other than just being a big fan of his, he came to mind when I rewatched the ol' trilogy this week. So much of Reloaded and Resurrections is Neo being given big schpiels of info, and him asking straightforward questions, often just repeating what was said to him with a question mark. Which of course, is something people poke fun at ol' Solid Snake for in the MGS games. Plus they both are imaginative, love that bygone era of coolness for style/action, have anti-establishment heroes, big fans of books/anime/comics etc etc. Just a nutty pipe dream, but if he was one of the people in the writer's room for this movie, even just a pass and a couple ideas as a consultant, I think that might be cool. But it's just a fun flight of fancy, who knows if he'll even get to be involved in that MGS movie Hollywood is making. I sure hope so. Also, fun to imagine how these creators influenced eachother. MGS rules, then shortly after The Matrix rules. Both doing their thing. MGS2 and later Twin Snakes are noticably influenced by The Matrix stylistically of course. And MGS2 was freakin' huge. So I think by Reloaded, The Matrix films were probably a bit informed and influenced by the MGS games too. But everything influences everything. But absolutely agreed, would be so cool if Kojima Productions stopped to make a Matrix game for a couple years. Nice pitstop between Death Stranding and his next huge opus. Could be one of those cool 10-15 hour budget games or something if that makes it more doable / less of a pipe dream. Pipe dream is the word of the day. Zesty posted:The woman whose only in the story specifically to love the main character because the Oracle/God/Writer told her to? She seems like a bad character in an unearned romance? Whaaaa? I like it. Trinity is the best character in the trilogy for me, with easily the best performance too. Well, Fishburne delivers a lot of goods as well. It's the sort of offbeat but earnest type of thing we're talking about, for me one of the more well done ones. In the sequels it does occassionally get a little cheesy with various villains saying "Oh... you're in love, gross", felt like it happened maybe just a couple times more than needed. But I like that heightened fairy tale aspect of The Matrix. Plus, she doesn't love Neo because the Oracle said so. Surely it's the other way around, Oracle was just right, she does love Neo, even if it doesn't make conventional sense that she does right away. So she probably would have had those feelings of love even if the Oracle didn't say anything. Plus being a human who's been freed and stuff, nobody can tell her what to do, even if they precognitively know some stuff that's gonna happen. Now I'm Matrixin'. It felt very Star Wars or whatever, search your feelings and all that, I dig it. Also, having something unseen and implied etc, leaving something to the imagination, that's usually one of the better aspects of the series. So while magical and fitting ol' formulas a bit, I think that romance works ok. Sure, it'd be cool to show a little more than telling on their romance, but for what they were doing, felt it was one of the more successful character things in the series. But takes on that to be fair cheese-ish romance aside, Trinity a bad character? How could that be? That is calamari talk. I just wanted to say calamari. Villains being called squids etc is also funny in that ol' sci-fi movie Trancers.
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Sep 21, 2021 23:34
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Halloween Jack posted:"Oligarch" is an interesting choice. Like I'm all for anticapitalism, but if they're oligarchs, what kind of wealth do they have? Is there money? Can the Merovingian earn enough $Coppertops to join the Oligarchy? It would have been interesting if they were previous chosen ones who just have this innately high level of matrix hacking power but no physical bodies anymore because they died long ago so they're just super powerful ghosts in the machine hanging out in the matrix forever.
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Sep 22, 2021 00:15
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I'm watching Reloaded right now and it's still pretty great. I know some of the CGI in the Neo Vs many Smiths fight hasn't aged terribly well but it's a really fun sequence, especially with Smiths monologue right before it. And the bowling pin sound effect is 
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Sep 22, 2021 00:34
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The United States posted:It would have been interesting if they were previous chosen ones who just have this innately high level of matrix hacking power but no physical bodies anymore because they died long ago so they're just super powerful ghosts in the machine hanging out in the matrix forever. None of them show up as anime characters though so this theory is basically destroyed.
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Sep 22, 2021 00:56
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No thanks to a Kojima Matrix game, yes please to Enter the Matrix Remastered: We Didn't Fix Any Bugs
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Sep 22, 2021 04:18
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aparmenideanmonad posted:None of them show up as anime characters though so this theory is basically destroyed. Having grown up in the matrix, all they know is designer sunglasses and leather jackets. If you think about it, The Matrix is anime, but does not contain anime. Sort of like how in any given zombie movie, other zombie movies do not exist.
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Sep 22, 2021 05:28
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Shiroc posted:Neo and Trinity are a perfect t4t relationship [and nothing needs to be further elaborated.] dangerous thought[s]
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Sep 22, 2021 07:03
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Ah, a world without anime. Blue pill me that poo poo all day
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Sep 22, 2021 11:49
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Star Wars just got the Animatrix treatment on Disney+. Out of the 10 or so shows, 5 are very good a few are decent and only 2 real stinkers. If Matrix 4 is successful, I hope we get a sequel to Animatrix too.
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Sep 22, 2021 11:56
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Alhazred posted:Smith says something then does the opposite. The only way I can think that this would be the case is that he says he hates the Matrix but then returns to it. But he returns to gently caress it up, not 'on the job' he hates as a warden/babysitter, so its not quite the same. I'm not sure what you're saying he's lying about and to what end. e; I guess you could make the case that when he rages at Neo "We are here because of you, Mr. Anderson. We are to take from you what you tried to take from us.....Purpose!" He's pissed because he's realised he's actually worse off as a free agent than as a slave of the system. But then that would be character growth not a lie. massive spider fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 12:45
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Lobster Henry posted:He's aware of his own obsessive drive - "I think of nothing else" - and his compulsive propagation throughout both worlds seems as much a form of self-destruction as anything else. Presumably, he'll crash along with the Matrix. If he expands into the Machine City and Zion, he'll destroy those societies and himself along with them. That seems like the only kind of freedom he can really envisage: "The purpose of life is to end." Exactly; Smith in The Matrix Sequel(s) is somewhat of a less-interesting character, but he's still actually fighting for freedom where Neo is fighting for a mere peace. When he talks about the purpose of life, his goal is not death but undeath. What we have with the Smiths is a sort of zombie apocalypse with Oracle-Smith serving as the 'alien queen' at the center of it all. [You must admit, the ending with the billion Smiths (who are all, of course, "possessed" matrix citizens) looks suspiciously similar to the thousands of people in Hugo Weaving costumes at the end of V for Vendetta.] But here we should note something very mysterious: if Smith was last seen getting disintegrated at the end of Matrix 1, and every Smith we see subsequently is a possessed matrix citizen, then who is the 'new Smith' who drops off a gift for Neo at the start of Matrix 2? The only good answer is that Smith in the sequels doesn't actually have a body; he is only this residue, the black goo which spreads from character to character.
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Sep 22, 2021 14:06
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I just rewatched Reloaded and Revolutions, and they both owned. I was someone who hated them back in 2003. I guess being older — and able to understand dialogue and movies in general more — combined with a seemingly endless stream of lovely films from Hollywood in recent years has caused me to reevaluate the Matrix sequels. They’re ambitious, and you can’t say that with most sequels these days. Did the previous five iterations of The One have a Smith-type nemesis as a result of the matrix equations trying to balance themselves out, or was he unique to Neo? I ask because when Neo refused to save Zion in favor of Trinity during the Architect scene, that was the first time an iteration of the One chose to let Zion die, right? Which means the only reason why the 6th Matrix/Zion survived was because — ironically — The One had to ally with the Machines against Smith from destroying both?
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Sep 23, 2021 05:19
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MLSM posted:I just rewatched Reloaded and Revolutions, and they both owned. I was someone who hated them back in 2003. I guess being older — and able to understand dialogue and movies in general more — combined with a seemingly endless stream of lovely films from Hollywood in recent years has caused me to reevaluate the Matrix sequels. They’re ambitious, and you can’t say that with most sequels these days. I think Smith specifically is somewhat unprecedented but the concept of the Matrix needing to be rebooted because aspects of it are becoming unstable and that instability manifesting as a counter-One (in whoever form it takes) that never has to opportunity to act because of a reboot is consistent. And while "a cataclysmic system crash" sounds like the Matrix bluescreening, why wouldn't it be the system manifesting another One that infects everyone plugged in?
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Sep 23, 2021 14:33
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Smith and Trinity are the new features that help break the matrix cycle. The Oracle helped push trinity onto neo and gave him a reason to love just one human more than all humans. Smith definitely seems unplanned. Oracle never says, "Hey if you happen to get the One powerup soon, make sure to jump into an agents body. Trust me." Neo, Trinity, and Smith form a new trinity needed to create a harmony between mind, body, and machine.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:13
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Yea with Trinity the Architect very specifically points out that The One falling in love to the point that he'd choose to save her over the rest of humanity is something that's never happened before. So the choice presented to Neo by the Architect is a bit different than any of the other iterations have faced.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:20
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Something the Architect could not predict: a Wife Guy.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:32
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Trinity falling for Neo despite just having met him makes a lot more sense when you remember that the crew of the Neb' had been watching him for some time before Morpheus made contact in the first flick. She essentially formed a parasocial relationship with the guy. Happens every day. As for him falling for her in return, that happens off screen between flicks. It sure does feel in the watching like it came out of nowhere, though, doesn't it? Sometimes something as simple as an extra second where one character looks longingly at another that sells the entire thing can be lost in an edit, deemed unneeded by the studio, etc. Or maybe they just figured people would go with it, which they largely did.
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Sep 24, 2021 01:20
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As much as I like Keanu, Weaving just really goes to town in the sequels. They're his show
RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 01:43
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Keanu can absolutely go to town too. They just left all that footage out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lksyNJhgyyE
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Sep 24, 2021 02:12
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LividLiquid posted:Trinity falling for Neo despite just having met him makes a lot more sense when you remember that the crew of the Neb' had been watching him for some time before Morpheus made contact in the first flick. Neo and Trinity just sharply vibe and connect (because they're both trans). The movies aren't interested in or have time for what the relationship would mean long term after the initial infatuation, its only important that they are intensely into each other in ways that are unexpected and entirely illogical to the system.
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Sep 24, 2021 02:14
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It sounds like you're arguing with me, but I feel like we're agreeing?
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Sep 24, 2021 02:33
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I think I'm just disagreeing with the idea of it coming out of nowhere. e: and highlighting that trans people crushing hard on other trans people is totally a thing Shiroc fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 02:41
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