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His Divine Shadow posted:The problem with the union is the more modern it becomes the less interesting it also becomes. Perhaps not really a spoiler that. The same thing happened in the Discworld series too. By the end, a full industrial revolution was underway with the railway and those perpetual motion things they found
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Sep 19, 2021 23:59
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Modernish cities in fantasy can usually remain interesting if they diverge in their own way from our history, or have weird fiction elements grafted on. However Joe seems to stick pretty close to history except that there is occasionally a guy who can light people on fire or something.
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Sep 20, 2021 00:39
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Speaking of setting people on fire, I really hope we get some more magic in the next book. I'd love something involving Kanedias and The House of The Maker, seems like such a cool story to explore.
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Sep 20, 2021 03:53
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In the first trilogy, they'd just discovered gunpowder, putting it in the late medieval era (~1300 or so), although a lot of the social stuff, professional armies with uniforms, large government bureaucracies, etc, seem somewhat later. Then, in the second trilogy, twenty years later, they have the first railroads, indoor plumbing, and so on (Early 19th century.) Obviously technology doesn't have to develop in the same order, and Bayaz might be speeding things up, but that's still a lot of progress for one generation. So if Abercrombie wants to, he can leave the world at its current tech level for quite some time without becoming 'unrealistic'
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Sep 20, 2021 06:17
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Finally finished it and caught up on the thread. My feelings are pretty in line with a lot of stuff here, but I want to ruminate on them a bit to see if they change. Two biggest things for me right now are: Disappointment in Orso getting hanged. I knew he had to die, and I knew it would be hanging...but drat I wish he'd have gotten a different method. Poor bastard hated hangings. Loved his last dig at Leo, made me laugh out loud. Profound relief that Logen didn't show up. I was convinced he was going to make an appearance just to go out like Omar in The Wire, and I don't want that for him. I just want him to have a quiet retirement in the Far Country.
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Sep 20, 2021 06:56
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Men like Ninefingers are not made for quiet retirements. He had one, and he was relieved when it was ended.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:06
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Crespolini posted:It does sucks, but it was written in stone from the first time he talks about how he hates hangings. I assumed this would be his last words as he looked up at the drizzling rain or somewhat
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Sep 20, 2021 13:51
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Paddyo posted:Hero of Two Worlds by Mike Duncan? Just finished it myself. Great freaking read. What an epic badass. Kept expecting Leo to have the full Lafayette arc… Yup, that's the one. It was great. Leo is more the Duke d'Orleans in the French Revolution analogy, I think. ZombieLenin posted:You’re right, it absolutely is. I am still disappointed; for me this would be like GRRM killing off Tyrion. Oh, sure, I get it...but it just works, in the same way as Ninefingers can't actually just be a quiet farmer, etc. etc. Overall - separate point - I think there more moments where the reader had been deceived and characters were acting radically different than presented in this trilogy than in past books. Still, not bad.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:05
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Abercrombie is my favorite fantasy author and I thought his first six books were all mostly excellent. There are parts of the new trilogy I’ve enjoyed very much, but now that it’s complete, I feel comfortable saying it’s a drop in quality from his previous work. That is from a narrative perspective. Joe’s writing has a clear upwards trajectory since the Blade Itself. My number one issue with this trilogy was the North. I trusted that Abercrombie had interesting reasons for going back to the same old same old, but now with the books finished, I don’t see it. The Heroes was already a repeat of the Northern conflict in the original trilogy, but it worked as a condensed, better written version of that arc, with a unique perspective in Calder. This new trilogy decided to repeat the narrative a third time and I’m not sure why. Worse yet, it felt like Abercrombie got bored and gave up. The bad guys get yet another “genuine savage" from the Crinna, but Joe was so bored with the third iteration of this trend that he forgot to write anything about Stand-in-the-Barrows. Calder appears as frustrated and bored as the reader that he has to do this all again, and then suddenly unconvincingly breaks character to become a dunce for plot convenience, Rikke’s entire plot arc relied on a cheap narrative trick that was poorly hidden and already discussed above in this thread. If there is a third trilogy I sincerely hope that Calder’s secret child conquerors the North off-screen, because I’m not sure I can stand to see this play out a fourth time. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around why he choose to abandon interesting places like Styria and the Old Empire, which he appeared to be explicitly building up in the stand alone books, just to write a less exciting version of the same narrative we’ve seen play out twice already. Another issue for me was a lack of stand-out moments. As Abercrombie’s writing has improved, he’s relied less on combat bits and shocking twists, but even so, it felt like there was very little in terms of memorable scenes in this trilogy. Leo & Stour in the circle, a handful of moments with Sulfur doing magic, Savine’s trial, and the eater fight were all that come to mind. None of them hold a candle to the high points in the other books. One particularly disappointing set piece was Gorst’s death. If we are talking about cool characters making their exit, compare that piddly display to Logan vs. Glamma & Logan vs the mercenaries. To be fair, I will mention some things I quite liked. Both Leo and Savine worked for me, especially in Wisdom of Crowds. I thought Abercrombie pulled off displaying them as complex conflicted characters. Leo has several moments where he shows insight into the dark broken direction he is headed, but doesn’t see any other option but to go with the momentum. I particularly enjoyed the scene towards the end were Leo & Rikke meet at the ball and it feels like Leo is just one hug away from breaking down and turning it around. Savine is even more interesting, because unlike Leo, she still seems like she can end up swinging either way. The pragmatist part of her keeps winning out in the short term, but she clearly is disgusted with her father & Leo, and she does seem to genuinely want to make the union better for everyone. Orso was a fantastic character and I hope Hildi inherits his charm. Megasabin fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 15:34
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I disagree that the new trilogy didn’t have standout moments-the first book had the duel, Sabine’s tour of the factory and subsequent escape, Sabine discovering her true parentage, and Stour and his guys killing Scale. The second had the railroad explosion/subsequent Yoru fight, and the battle of Stouffenberg, and Orso’s conversations with Leo and Jappo. I agree that the third didn’t have as many though.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:43
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I dunno, it didn't have huge magical explosions but I think Joe has gotten better and better at making the books a page turner from the start. So many people fail to get into The Blade Itself because its sort of slow and meandering for long periods as we get to know the characters. They have their own goals which we hopefully get invested in, but its nothing like pacing of these books where characters are immediately hurtling forward on very complicated trajectories. Part of it is that readers are already familiar with the world (probably) but also each book has an arc and major events that cap off each arc. I think the tower section is the most dramatic part of this book. It's the whole reason for Broad's character. Everything after that seems like part of the denouement and the supernatural doesn't play as big a part which is a bit of a let down after 3 books of also hardly any magic happening.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:13
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So apparently like many other readers I thought it was not the strongest book Joe Abercrombie's written, by a good stretch, while still greatly enjoying it. First off, there were times when I was a bit jaded with the overall 'everyone's a total piece of poo poo' ethos, particularly with how it related to the flow of politics and great events: I thought the rush of events to the total collapse of the Union monarchy was overdone and oversimplified, and the complete mess left by proto-republican rule was a silly caricature. Some people have already noted how quickly the military forces defending the crown collapsed, like not in a few days or weeks (as has sometimes been the case) but apparently in about one morning. I think the details of that collapse, of the rump forces under Forest fighting a civil war, and of the behaviour of the other Union provinces during this violent interregnum were all left barely sketched out, and I found that disappointing. Then the way all the revolutionaries were simpletons, deranged, ineffective or homicidal lunatics was beyond my suspension of disbelief. A lot of the beats were French revolution, yes, or Russian revolution, and I'm not a scholar of either of those periods, but I did recognise some elements as being overdrawn. Like yes, there are shortages, fresh inequalities, widespread violence and the breakdown of law and order in revolutions, alongside political reprisals. But the idea that everyone involved was an utter incompetent and none of the levers of state were efficiently taken over (bar Pike's new Inquisition, which is ultimately seen to be part of Glokta's grand design) . . . that's just silly. E.g. the French revolutionaries did have terrible problems trying to supplant the ancien regime officer corps and form a standing army - but when they did, because their civil and military projects included some very dedicated, capable people, they accomplished surprising things, to the surprise of the neighbouring monarchies! Maybe it's part of Abercrombie's natural cynicism where most everyone is a fool, systems are rotten and everything gets worse or stays the same. But it's ridiculous to portray a revolution which jumps straight from wasting time drawing up a constitution (actually a pretty important thing to do) to spending every second of its time executing real and imagined enemies, with little-to-no screen time given to them actually reforming the state. I also thought his themes were less than compelling when it came to the military stuff: I know that plot movements in this series tend to be propelled by a cascade of betrayals and cunning ruses, each more cunning that the last. But it stretched credulity with the Northern military campaign. The Rikke weakness fake-out was telegraphed to the reader miles off, and it just doesn't make any sense! First off, feigning weakness is a terrible idea in a civil war when you're keeping the secret from the general population and your own supporters. Anyone actually trying that would find all their support genuinely would melt away, leaving them high and dry. It was also a bit insulting (I know it's just a casual fantasy read, not John le Carre) that Calder, this supposed wily fox, had precisely 2 spies and no scouts. How was he blind to the forces moving away and then back, he relied entirely for information only on one informant? (separate issue, as some have pointed out, of whether Bayaz should/could have helped with any of this, having already determined Calder was his horse to back) On a more down-in-the-weed tactical sense, how did 3 small armies close in on another, literally so close they could charge directly into them, while staying out of sight? That's beyond any normal ability at stealth or misdirection. The series has always been loose about military realism (fantasy early-medieval northern europeans taking on early-modern armies that sometimes have, and sometimes don't have, mass-manufactured plate armour) but this is ridiculous. I did think some of the set pieces were great and the prose was better than any of his early stuff. I'm just getting a bit sick of all arseholery and how every big win/loss is the result of some bit of treachery. I think the author under-portrays the effects of simple competence (incompetence is portrayed as ubiquitous and lovingly described) and circumstance in how wars and politics produce results. There was some mention of public opinion, but mostly in how it could be manipulated by Savine.
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Sep 20, 2021 20:50
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Genghis Cohen posted:I did think some of the set pieces were great and the prose was better than any of his early stuff. I'm just getting a bit sick of all arseholery and how every big win/loss is the result of some bit of treachery. I think the author under-portrays the effects of simple competence (incompetence is portrayed as ubiquitous and lovingly described) and circumstance in how wars and politics produce results. There was some mention of public opinion, but mostly in how it could be manipulated by Savine. I've found reading KJ Parker to be a less immediately enjoyable experience but he's similar to Abercrombie except that he provides both sides of a conflict a measure of dignity. Usually the reasons one side collapses over the other is due to things no one could have seen coming, or linked to a very specific tragic flaw, and not just "total incompetence." Competence is so rare in an Abercrombie book its like a superpower.
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Sep 20, 2021 21:05
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You mentioned KJ Parker earlier in the thread and I just picked up Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City. Pretty interesting so far, but I can't figure it out - is the setting supposed to be Byzantium or just a Byzantium analog?
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Sep 20, 2021 21:15
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Genghis Cohen posted:
Oh, he had scouts. There a POV where one of Rikke's guys goes "Gee wiz, almost hard to believe we managed to gank of all Calders scouts and none of them got away." And it's like yes, it is. Even more so how that didn't tip Calder off to something being extremely wrong.
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Sep 20, 2021 21:32
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Crespolini posted:Oh, he had scouts. There a POV where one of Rikke's guys goes "Gee wiz, almost hard to believe we managed to gank of all Calders scouts and none of them got away." And it's like yes, it is. Even more so how that didn't tip Calder off to something being extremely wrong. I know, right? Like one scout going missing can be dismissed as an accident, all your scouts going missing is a clarion call that your enemy is out in force and you need to concentrate immediately. As many people have said, it's just too one-sided a business to make the reader feel much relief/triumph at Rikke's success. Ccs posted:I've found reading KJ Parker to be a less immediately enjoyable experience but he's similar to Abercrombie except that he provides both sides of a conflict a measure of dignity. Usually the reasons one side collapses over the other is due to things no one could have seen coming, or linked to a very specific tragic flaw, and not just "total incompetence." Competence is so rare in an Abercrombie book its like a superpower. Thanks for the recommendation! I actually had just picked up this "Sixteen ways to defend a walled city" for £1 when I bought the Madness of Crowds ebook, as I'd heard a similar recommendation here. Eager to try it. I remember reading his 'Fencer' trilogy years ago and it was better than most fantasy books. I think it's a pseudonym for Tom Holt as well? That surprised me as he's a very humorous author. Genghis Cohen fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 21:39
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Paddyo posted:You mentioned KJ Parker earlier in the thread and I just picked up Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City. Pretty interesting so far, but I can't figure it out - is the setting supposed to be Byzantium or just a Byzantium analog? the setting definitely isn't byzantium so I guess it's an analog almost all of his works are in the same world except the temporal distances between them can be thousands of years so it can happen that in one book you meet the robur, a refined people with an immensely powerful empire, and in another you hear talk of these savages called robur (which is presumably the precursor nation/people of the robur empire)
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Sep 20, 2021 23:53
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Yeah Parker reused a lot of ideas and names and concepts between books. It might all be part of the same world, or it might just be the toy box he empties to build his worlds are all from the same parts. He has specific themes he wants to explore that differ between books though all tend to be a bit grim. Sixteen Ways has a sequel and a third one is coming out soonish, though they’re more contained than most books that are part of a series.
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Sep 21, 2021 00:20
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Calder's plot didn't bother me at all. Calder based his strategic plan on two corroborating high level sources that told him what he wanted to hear. While that's not unheard of today, it makes more sense then. At their level of the development the strategic layer is "do we march out or not?" By marching out in winter Calder is doing a clever thing, even though in this case Rikka sees it coming. At the tactical level Calder does send out scouts, and presumably he would have checked in with them before ordering the assault, but his priority was getting his son back and after watching him get murdered he might have been a bit too mad to check in with his S2 Carl before ordering the assault. With Bayez/Sulfur, there really wasn't much for them to do during the revolution. The banks were sunk costs and anyway they couldn't give a poo poo about all the deaths. Sulfur only really moved after Glotka resurfaced and his threat to Savine at the Solar Society seemed more aimed to flush Glotka. The two things that really stick in my craw are 1. Why didn't Leo murder Orzo on the spot when he killed Forrest? There's no more reason to keep him alive then there is when they do kill him and it makes way more sense to kill him in the haze of the battle then to chat about it with the Westport delegation and wait for his inevitable escape attempt. 2. Everything about the rear end backwards escape attempt. Savine waiting around to be questioned was dumb. The "oopsie here I am holding a clue" schtick was dumb even if it was a swerve. And sending poor Gorst to die was especially loving dumb. His death was pointless and bought what, five minutes?
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Sep 21, 2021 02:14
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:And sending poor Gorst to die was especially loving dumb. His death was pointless and bought what, five minutes? They didn't "send" him, Gorst decided that he wanted to go out on his terms. Orso was shocked when he heard what Gorst was doing. And yes, it was dumb and pointless and only bought them minutes, but that's Gorst for you, depressed, bloodthirsty and borderline suicidal. Warden fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 06:46
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My favorite KJ Parker series is the Engineer Trilogy. They're all good, but that one really stands out to me...maybe because it's the first one I read. As for Joe, I'm hoping we get a few more standalone novels, as they're my favorite. I'd love to see him take on a detective novel (Hard Boiled, but I guess Sherlockian would do) now that we've gotten Heist, War Movie, and Western. Maybe a spy novel? I could see a Spy Who Came In From The Cold type thing with some of Shylo's folk.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:46
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I don't understand what Rikke thinks turning Orso in will buy her. Leo is an untrustworthy ally who has shown he will not honour principles or commitments and is increasingly paranoid. Rikke may not know how far he's slid but it seems from their interaction at the function and the conversation after she has a good idea. Sure, smuggling out Orso would've been a risk, but it didn't seem like she even considered it. And getting out Orso could possibly have an advantage aside from assuaging her conscience - if he were to regain power, you would have a king who does have a moral compass and would remember what Rikke did, in addition to having no interest in wars with the North. It's annoying to constantly see more admirable characters poo poo on - sure, it's realistic that acting morally would often lead to people's downfall, but, equally, sometimes acting with integrity is recognised by others and rewarded. I suppose we should be happy at least the Dogman died of old age, and Temple is still out there somewhere, and Yoru Sulfur finally got what was coming to him. Re what Abercrombie might do with standalones - I remember him saying he was tired of settings where the magic fades, and wanted to bring it back. On the other hand, he also said he has no firm ideas of what he's going to do next in the setting. Obviously there's a big setup for one of the major half-demon kids returning. I'm actually keen for that - magic keeps this world from collapsing into something too close to reality, which it was in danger of in this series, at which point it loses some of its lustre. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 09:38
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Just finished up the Trouble with Peace in time for the release of The Wisdom of Crowds (I'd actually forgotten I'd bought it on Kindle, no idea why I hadn't read it but things were fairly busy back when it dropped). Feel like I'm bucking the trend to say I've really enjoyed tWoC, Trouble with Peace took me most of the first half of the book to get into and it felt like a slog, not sure if it was because I'd warmed up on it but the finale felt like there was more happening at a better pace. Only thing that I didn't really like from a narrative perspective was the lack of explanation for Bayaz's absence. People have remarked on it but it seemed like he left Sulfur behind to watch the farm but there's no hint given as to why. I could definitely buy him assuming things are under control and moving on but when it's clear everything is falling apart he doesn't make any effort to get back in to right them. Not really explaining it makes sense in terms of information the characters wouldn't get access to i.e. Bayaz isn't going to tell people what might be more important to him than the Union or that his power is limited and he's out of his depth in terms of knowing how to handle to Great Change but it's really, really unsatisfying for him to just fail to intervene beyond Sulfur making a few threats and then getting ganked. I like what happened to Leo really, someone earlier said they were disappointed that suffering and weakness hadn't caused him to grow as a person but I think that misses the point. Suffering like that causes a person to change, it may spark introspection and grow their empathy for others but with both Savine and Leo what it did was cause them to focus on themselves. For Savine (following Valbeck) it was to descend into a drug fuelled crusade to ensure her own safety above everything else and for Leo it caused him to stop caring about the suffering of others because he's purely focused on his own suffering. I think it also reveals that despite how we see his PoV and how Savine saw him, there's a strong element of the bully in Leo. Like Orso he's had a generally pampered upbringing but he 1) enjoyed physical exercise and danger and 2) wanted to be liked. That was always the basis for his 'heroism' and once he gets 1) taken away from him, he also feels like that's his only route to 2) gone. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that he decides that if he can't be a hero he can be the victor. His whole life has been spent with intelligent women berating him for being too impetuous and kind hearted and when that results (as he sees it) in him getting his friends killed and him crippled, it makes sense that he goes all in on everything opposed to that. I don't really think he or Savine get a happy ending in the sense of any kind of personal fulfilment. Orso considers it (when he's about to escape and thinks about just dropping his claims and staying in hiding) but Vic is about the only person who really does get that ending - one I'm really happy about for her, even if she just ends up getting merced by a no name a week after arriving in the Far Country.
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Sep 21, 2021 12:58
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Warden posted:]They didn't "send" him. Then he failed his king by choosing to die in the dumbest way possible. Dude would have been super useful at a city border checkpoint or as a red herring running another direction. Also, pls fix your spoiler tags
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Sep 21, 2021 14:06
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Then he failed his king by choosing to die in the dumbest way possible. Dude would have been super useful at a city border checkpoint or as a red herring running another direction. Oh poo poo, sorry. Fixed now. Failing his king was par for course for Gorst. It's not like he didn't have a lot of practice in that. You've read Heroes, and that short story in Sharp Ends where he has a mental breakdown in the brothel, I assume?
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Sep 21, 2021 17:51
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The whole second Orso escape plot was such a wet blanket. He's got some serious brain power in Savine and Vic directly supporting him, and his influential mother and sister indirectly supporting him, and they didn't have a plan to get him out of the city beyond sacrificing Gorst for a 20 minute diversion? Hell, given Vic's conversations with the Styrians and Orso's relationship with Jappo it seemed like a great opportunity to bring them into the plot, which I think would have been interesting.
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Sep 21, 2021 18:08
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Warden posted:Oh poo poo, sorry. Fixed now. Yeah, but if anything Gorst actually learned from his mistake after he fucks up in Sipani and heroically murders his way back into Jezal's good graces. He takes Finree's absolutely vicious (though well-earned) kick to his already sad brain in stride and serves two kings with distinction losing one to a loving wizard and almost losing another one because he was ordered to take the day off. Just 25+ years of continuous, zealous and competent service with his only reward being mocked relentlessly for his voice. I find it hard to believe that this dude, thrust into the position as the king's last sworn competent sword chooses that moment to have a sad and commit suicide by Anglander. Seems a lazy way to get some action. Way better and brutal in my mind for Orso to have to send him away because everyone in town knows him and anyone not a burner from the sticks would recognize instantly him as Orso's loyal punchline. Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 21:49
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sharp ends was so good
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Sep 21, 2021 21:51
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Paddyo posted:The whole second Orso escape plot was such a wet blanket. Against my creeping dread at the inevitable, I legit expected the swerve to be Orso and company covertly watching Leo get clowned from the next boat over so they could see him myopically overreact to being played and forget all about the rest of the harbor. scary ghost dog posted:sharp ends was so good This thread is now about speculating about the no less than 7 times in the new trilogy where Shev and Javre were just left of the camera while caught up in their own petty poo poo. Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 21:56
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Yeah, but if anything Gorst actually learned from his mistake after he fucks up in Sipani and heroically murders his way back into Jezal's good graces. He takes Finree's absolutely vicious (though well-earned) kick to his already sad brain in stride and serves two kings with distinction losing one to a loving wizard and almost losing another one because he was ordered to take the day off. Just 25+ years of continuous, zealous and competent service with his only reward being mocked relentlessly for his voice. Honestly I am not hating on this. Gorst gets to go out on his own terms, serving his king to the end. It's similar to how he watched Jalehorn or whatever his name was die in Heroes. That guy died with "redemption" all over his face. Also this way he makes Leo poo poo himself until Jurand steps in and gets the last dig before dying as well. Edit: I would love another Sharp Ends with Javre and Shev just going "gently caress gently caress gently caress" in revolutionary Adua. Also shout out to my boy Temple getting a name drop in drafting the updated Union government. Savine paying for the best. Eminent Domain fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 22:58
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I don't know if I'm alone in this but I couldn't stand the Shev and Javre stories. They just felt very one note and seemed way too far in the direction of caricatures rather than characters. I didn't really buy them as fitting in the world - they seemed like they wandered in from some other zanier book. Really glad Poochy didn't show up in this one.
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Sep 22, 2021 07:19
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I'm sorta with you on that. I liked some of them, but thought it got a little much as a whole.
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Sep 22, 2021 07:26
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You know I wonder how Gorst would've fared in the circle against Stauer Nightfall. My guess it would've been a short and brutal fight in Gorsts favor, only persons I think a match for him is already dead or out of the series. Even in his old age. Not spoilering this because it's a completely made up thing.
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Sep 22, 2021 09:39
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Gorst is probably my favorite character in the series. I like how he was written as the supreme badass with a sword but is a failure in just about every other aspect of his life. Wonder how different it could have been for him if Bayaz didn't gently caress him out of a tournament win in his youth.
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Sep 22, 2021 10:58
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His Divine Shadow posted:You know I wonder how Gorst would've fared in the circle against Stauer Nightfall. My guess it would've been a short and brutal fight in Gorsts favor, only persons I think a match for him is already dead or out of the series. Even in his old age. Yeah, it's pretty hard to give Gorst a decent mano-a-mano fight. When it's Sword Time everybody else is trying to play some other kind of mental game, either snarling intimidation or rope-a-doping or playing to the crowd or frenzied theatrics or whatever else, while Gorst is like Sad Goku who only leaves the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to whip your rear end in the most efficient way possible. I want an alternate history where he gets bonked on the head during The Heroes and ends up getting adopted by some dozen after the war. Stomps around solving feuds, busting up shield walls solo by being a Koolaide Man of death. Get Named as "Squeaker" by his new group of buds who all pat him on the back and tell him how cool he is. Spends his retirement years hanging out with Shivers and Rikke mostly just looming over rude people. Sigh.
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Sep 22, 2021 11:05
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Sinatrapod posted:When it's Sword Time everybody else is trying to play some other kind of mental game, either snarling intimidation or rope-a-doping or playing to the crowd or frenzied theatrics or whatever else, while Gorst is like Sad Goku who only leaves the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to whip your rear end in the most efficient way possible. IIRC this, without the sad goku part, is what shivers' fight in the circle was like in the 2nd book
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Sep 22, 2021 13:02
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Shev and Javre are Rosencrantz and Guildenstern and the biggest subversion in existence would be Javre's bullshit quest bring relevant in some way. Also, Gorst spent enough time depressed in the North that it's not inconceivable that he has a bastard.
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Sep 22, 2021 15:59
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Hah, is the audiobook that's got people spelling Rikke as Rikka? I still want to check out what voices Steven Pacey used for this trilogy at some point. This was basically a repeat of the battles/conflicts/locations of LAOK with the characters and character conflicts from....the previous book (which was a much stronger narrative).  Mostly a page turner despite the constant 'courtroom' scenes and lack of payoff at least.I'm sad Sharp Ends didn't get a look in. I'm sad the balance of power with all the wizards hasn't actually shifted that much. Either move away from the wizard feuds or do something with it! I'm sad the monarchy wasn't overthrown, and the revolution was cartoonishly incompetent (the idea of Judge holding a city and army together for longer than a week?). I'm sad how much this thread predicted Glokta being behind the revolution. I'm sad the Ishri predictions from three years ago also turned out to be true. I'm sad some of the weirder elements turned out to be nothing. It's been a while but I could've sworn Isher was sus as heck in the previous novel, so figured he'd be seriously tied into conspiracies. Same with Judge who turned out to be a real nothing character. Surprisingly sad Logen didn't get a look in - I didn't really want more Logen, but the fact that Red Country left him out there without killing/retiring him, plus the constant references, made me think Joe would have to reckon with that. Also bothered Ferro and her...child(?) still never got resolved. Best character Orso going out was sad but intentionally I thought written fairly. Second best character Ricke turning him in was actually one of the few 'hard decision' moments in this in which I actually understood and felt bad for both parties (all her ways out of that were WAY too risky!). Mainly thrown that he's the only POV to die. Absolutely sucks they didn't kill Savine or Leo off in the second book, or kill anyone on the loving tower in this one. Suxpool posted:i love the scene in book 2 so much where leo and orso both go meet jappo. leo is immediately thrown off by jappo's open homosexuality and hyper-hedonism, and when jappo tries the same act on orso he doesn't miss a beat. his casual indifference to debauchery becomes an asset when he's perhaps the only person on the planet that can truly relate to jappo's life experience and outlook Crespolini posted:I will say Vic's story arc was immensely satisfying to me. I'm really curious if there were any clues about Tallow looking back though. Glokta felt inevitable, but that one was a surprise. Interesting to know if the groundwork was laid for it.
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Sep 22, 2021 16:21
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Nothing in this trilogy has gotten me as excited as when the bloody nine starts laughing, but it was still enjoyable. But yeah, I definitely want to see more magic in this series, I don't give a poo poo about England, fantasy or otherwise. Especially fantasy England that doesn't have a single character that isn't a piece of poo poo and has lost 95 percent of the fantasy. More cowboy America vs wizard backed Romans would be good or the fantasy Arabia plagued with cannibal sorcerors
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Sep 22, 2021 17:11
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Is Zuri really supposed to be Ishri? I thought she just mentioned that she'd had lots of names?
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Sep 22, 2021 17:24
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