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https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1440415831603638274?s=21 Have a feeling that the list vote map is gonna be another fun game of “spot the historical border”, but with AfD votes more than Linke votes this time around.
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Sep 22, 2021 05:34
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Honestly, what that map drives home for me is that Bavaria should gtfo. (And take Sachsen with them)
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Sep 22, 2021 07:28
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TinTower posted:https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1440415831603638274?s=21 I seriously doubt the AfD will get 14 direct mandates, most forecasts I've seen have them at 2, maybe 4 at most. They've played no role in the election, since no-one even wants to talk to them about a coalition.
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Sep 22, 2021 07:44
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Pope Hilarius II posted:Apparently Albania loomed larged enough in Navajo consciousness to merit its own specific code name? It only makes sense to have a white mountain next to black mountain. Yin and Yang and all that.
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Sep 22, 2021 07:59
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What surprises me is how weak the Greens are, especially on the 2017 map. I'd always heard they were huge in Germany, but they only had a plurality in a single district in the entirety of the country? I wouldn't vote for them anyway, like the 'Greens' in the rest of Europe it seems they're in the hippie boomer Romantic tradition where nuclear power and GMO's are evil because they mess up our chakras or some poo poo, so mostly useless when it comes to devising actual sustainable policies e: the best you can expect from them is to de-emphasize cars, which to be fair is a big improvement just on its own Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 11:19
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Stuttgart going all green seems interesting since my idea of the place is just Cars
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Sep 22, 2021 11:37
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Ras Het posted:Stuttgart going all green seems interesting since my idea of the place is just Cars It’s actually all about horses, kind of a horse garden, if you will
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Sep 22, 2021 11:39
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Phlegmish posted:I wouldn't vote for them anyway, like the 'Greens' in the rest of Europe it seems they're in the hippie boomer Romantic tradition where nuclear power and GMO's are evil because they mess up our chakras or some poo poo, so mostly useless when it comes to devising actual sustainable policies That's just straight bullshit. The Greens have been screaming at the government to actually do something for decades, but doing something against climate change is massively unpopular among the media and rich donors. The Greens would never have killed off vast chunks of Germany's wind and solar industry like CDU/CSU/FDP/SPD did, or allowed Bavaria to pass laws that prohibit building any kind of energy generation. They would have massively expanded renewables, that's the one defining thing on their agenda that they can be relied upon to actually execute if they were in power on the federal level. But again, concrete actions against climate change are massively unpopular. Nuclear is unpopular across the entire political spectrum because people actually have the magical ability to remember the radioactive rain, being advised not to eat wild mushrooms, the contaminated saline from Asse II, which, by the way, the tax payer has to pay to excavate after private industry dumped their waste there, the constant coverups at a number of German plants when they ran with major safety measures nonfunctional because it cost money to repair, plant operators and politicians using armed thugs to beat up peaceful protesters on the regular, the still unsolved waste problem, the insane amount of money spent subsidising reactors…
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Sep 22, 2021 11:45
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I was going to reply that it's incredibly stupid to replace nuclear power plants with coal plants that cause much more pollution, sickness, and death, and it is, but I'm reading that the coal plants will be phased out in the future. Apparently that's feasible now? Good on them! I've personally been disappointed with the Greens in my country time and time again, either for focusing on completely unrelated issues, or for proposing policies that are actually counterproductive out of some misguided romanticized view on what is 'natural'. But of course, there's something to be said that for the idea that voting for them would at least advance sustainability in some areas, so I can't judge people for doing it. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 12:00
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Lol nuclear is unpopular solely because of the fossil fuel industry and their pets in the media running one of history’s biggest propaganda smear campaigns against it. Nothing more.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:02
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Honestly they should not have been eating random wild mushrooms to begin with
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Sep 22, 2021 12:04
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Antigravitas posted:Nuclear is unpopular across the entire political spectrum because people actually have the magical ability to remember the radioactive rain, being advised not to eat wild mushrooms, the contaminated saline from Asse II, which, by the way, the tax payer has to pay to excavate after private industry dumped their waste there, the constant coverups at a number of German plants when they ran with major safety measures nonfunctional because it cost money to repair, plant operators and politicians using armed thugs to beat up peaceful protesters on the regular, the still unsolved waste problem, the insane amount of money spent subsidising reactors… There has never been an issue so overblown as the "still unsolved waste problem" of nuclear power.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:04
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Phlegmish posted:I was going to reply that it's incredibly stupid to replace nuclear power plants with coal plants that cause much more pollution, sickness, and death, and it is, but I'm reading that the coal plants will be phased out in the future. Apparently that's feasible now? Good on them!
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Sep 22, 2021 12:16
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Randarkman posted:There has never been an issue so overblown as the "still unsolved waste problem" of nuclear power. Excavating the dumped waste from Asse II costs more than the entire annual state budget of some states, all paid for by the public after private industry has extracted all value. Records were deliberately destroyed to hide what was dumped there in its final days. Frankly, it's insane how people can't tell it's a capitalist racket.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:33
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Ras Het posted:Stuttgart going all green seems interesting since my idea of the place is just Cars The Greens in Baden-Württemberg are are a conservative party. Their "green" Minister-President lobbied in Brussels for higher co2 thresholds for cars so as not to "overwhelm" the automotive industry.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:44
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It's p telling that anti-nuclear power people can often name literally every meaningful reactor failure.
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Sep 22, 2021 13:56
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Phlegmish posted:Honestly they should not have been eating random wild mushrooms to begin with They are European, this is not an option.
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Sep 22, 2021 14:39
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's p telling that anti-nuclear power people can often name literally every meaningful reactor failure.
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Sep 22, 2021 14:40
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Peggotty posted:The Greens in Baden-Württemberg are are a conservative party. Their "green" Minister-President lobbied in Brussels for higher co2 thresholds for cars so as not to "overwhelm" the automotive industry. That is indeed "interesting" Phlegmish posted:Honestly they should not have been eating random wild mushrooms to begin with Are you British
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Sep 22, 2021 17:56
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Ras Het posted:Are you British
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Sep 22, 2021 18:50
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A Buttery Pastry posted:They literally have their ethnicity as their username. I can reveal that my intention was to offend
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Sep 22, 2021 19:03
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Ohh 
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Sep 22, 2021 19:10
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galagazombie posted:Lol nuclear is unpopular solely because of the fossil fuel industry and their pets in the media running one of history’s biggest propaganda smear campaigns against it. Nothing more. No, it originated from movements opposed to the nuclear arms race. France has lots of nuclear power because de Gaulle wanted la bombe. Argentina, Sweden and South Korea, to name a few were also seriously considering joining the big league in the 1970s.  This was somewhat mitigated by the Non-proliferation treaty...  ... and the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, which saw the United States, United Kingdom and Russia agreeing to guarantee the sovereignty of Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine in exchange for giving up their nukes. As you may know, this didn't hold up that well: 
Jasper Tin Neck fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 19:22
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Ras Het posted:I can reveal that my intention was to offend
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Sep 22, 2021 19:28
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don't troll the belgians they've suffered enough
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Sep 22, 2021 19:35
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Nah, the anti-nuclear power campaign has a very long history of being propped up by fossil fuel companies; Friends of the Earth was literally given seed money by a California oil tycoon who didn't like how the Sierra Club supported nuclear power. Even these days, fossil fuel companies are very keen to point out that renewable energy currently need a backbone to provide a stable energy grid and what do you know, they've got some nice natural gas to sell! Also, the green movement is hilariously susceptible to fossil-fuel lobby greenwashing; it's confusing to most other green parties in Europe how XR and the Green Party in England waste so much energy on campaigning against electric rail.
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Sep 22, 2021 20:27
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Ras Het posted:I can reveal that my intention was to offend Always assume the worst, always expect to deal with an Englishman.
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Sep 22, 2021 20:34
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TinTower posted:Also, the green movement is hilariously susceptible to fossil-fuel lobby greenwashing; it's confusing to most other green parties in Europe how XR and the Green Party in England waste so much energy on campaigning against electric rail. I have brought this up before but there are convincing arguments to be made that focus on high speed has made rail services much worse for much of the country in France, while improving them mostly for wealthy urban users who have a regular need for Paris-Barcelona in six hours or whatever. That may or may not be "green" of course, it's a broad church
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Sep 22, 2021 20:42
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:No, it originated from movements opposed to the nuclear arms race. France has lots of nuclear power because de Gaulle wanted la bombe. Argentina, Sweden and South Korea, to name a few were also seriously considering getting joining the big league in the 1970s. That may have been the major argument back in the days when nuclear proliferation was a major worry in the news constantly, but now I feel like a lot of arguments I hear these days have more to do with feeling like nuclear is "unsafe" or "dangerous", either from how nuclear disasters are higher profile or how pop culture just seems generally uncomfortable about nuclear. The Simpsons has more cultural influence than it really should in this aspect. Coal and natural gas ruin people's lives just in the process of extraction with no accidents before you even get to the effects of global warming, but that's old news and more localized, so nobody cares about it. I guess it doesn't help that coalminers and the communities around them are left awkwardly trying to fight for safer conditions and better medical coverage while also trying to defend coal in principle since it's a major part of their local communities and finding new industry to justify their continued existence is hard (and even if they have enough other industry to persist, it'd still be a major economic loss).
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Sep 22, 2021 21:12
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TinTower posted:Also, the green movement is hilariously susceptible to fossil-fuel lobby greenwashing; it's confusing to most other green parties in Europe how XR and the Green Party in England waste so much energy on campaigning against electric rail. XR is like all cops. 
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Sep 22, 2021 21:19
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Platystemon posted:XR is like all cops. That picture must be a joke because it's extremely funny
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Sep 22, 2021 21:25
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SlothfulCobra posted:Stuff. I'm not disputing any of this, just pointing out that the anti-nuclear movement has deeper and more complex roots than Internet nuclear experts would have you believe. 
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Sep 22, 2021 21:36
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's p telling that anti-nuclear power people can often name literally every meaningful reactor failure. I had this argument on Facebook and someone was like, "Uh, hello? Chernobyl? Fukushima?" and I pointed out that if you add Three Mile Island that is a comprehensive list of nuclear power plant reactor failures. It's a ridiculously safe technology, it's the air travel of power generation.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:02
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Antigravitas posted:Excavating the dumped waste from Asse II costs more than the entire annual state budget of some states, all paid for by the public after private industry has extracted all value. Records were deliberately destroyed to hide what was dumped there in its final days. A paradox of nuclear energy is that it is actually possible to handle waste responsibly, even clean up waste that had been carelessly disposed of by previous generations, and that leads to situations like this that can be used as cautionary tales. Meanwhile, gigatonnes of waste from carbon and hydrocarbon sources are dumped into the air we breathe every year, and because capturing and interring that is a fool’s errand, we just accept that the solution to pollution is dilution.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:40
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Kenning posted:I had this argument on Facebook and someone was like, "Uh, hello? Chernobyl? Fukushima?" and I pointed out that if you add Three Mile Island that is a comprehensive list of nuclear power plant reactor failures. It's a ridiculously safe technology, it's the air travel of power generation. quote:Thus the person relocated in 1990 receiving the average dose will have achieved a gain in life expectancy of about 3½ weeks as a result of the decrease in radiation exposure achieved.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:53
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Platystemon posted:A paradox of nuclear energy is that it is actually possible to handle waste responsibly, even clean up waste that had been carelessly disposed of by previous generations, and that leads to situations like this that can be used as cautionary tales. I think you'll understand that "It's totally possible to handle waste, we just haven't figured out how in 70 years, maybe future generations will manage it" is not going to persuade anyone. And nobody is cleaning up the contaminated soil across Europe. Gorleben just got axed, so Germany is back to square one.
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Sep 23, 2021 07:22
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I like nuclear because Chernobyl being a closed off zone where nature thrives without humans is good
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Sep 23, 2021 07:28
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Antigravitas posted:I think you'll understand that "It's totally possible to handle waste, we just haven't figured out how in 70 years, maybe future generations will manage it" is not going to persuade anyone. We’ve been doing it right since the eighties. You store it in a pool near the reactor till the daughter products cool down substantially, then you move it to dry casks (typically on site), then preferably you move it to deep geological repository.   See the dry storage here at Fukushima Daiichi, right on the waterfront? That’s the one part of the facility that did fine in the face of a very strong earthquake, despite being constructed, operated, and overseen by the same knuckleheads that hosed everything else up. quote:Casks have been in use at the Fukushima Daiichi plant since 1995. The casks are steel, equipped with an inner and outer bolted closures that can be removed for inspection, and bolted to the foundation of the cask storage building, which is located at a low elevation close to the quay (see Figure 2.1). Nine casks containing a total of 408 fuel assemblies were in storage on March 11, 2011 (TEPCO, 2012a, Attachment 9-9). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK373721/
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Sep 23, 2021 09:13
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I've never understood the internet's obsession with nuclear power... Sure, coal is crap but why invest billions in a complicated and potentially dangerous technology when you have solar, wind, water and others that are much easier and safer?
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Sep 23, 2021 09:30
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Chikimiki posted:I've never understood the internet's obsession with nuclear power... Sure, coal is crap but why invest billions in a complicated and potentially dangerous technology when you have solar, wind, water and others that are much easier and safer? It's a legitimate technology with plenty of uses, but over the years, owning the libs has become seemingly equally important of a motivation as electricity. Online proponents of small modular reactors (SMR) in particular are nearly as insufferable as buttcoin enthusiasts. Anyway, map tax:  The missing border between Kazakhstan and Russia is a nice touch.
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Sep 23, 2021 09:47
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