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By the end of it, MK2 themes felt like a list building challenge, in casual at least. The benefits rarely really justified the cost but, "want to make a weird list with both warbeasts and warjacks?" heck yeah I do. Is it going to be a good list? Doesn't matter.
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Sep 21, 2021 17:27
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Serenade posted:By the end of it, MK2 themes felt like a list building challenge, in casual at least. The benefits rarely really justified the cost but, "want to make a weird list with both warbeasts and warjacks?" heck yeah I do. Is it going to be a good list? Doesn't matter. In the last half of Mk2, if you weren't bringing a tier list or one of a small number of non-tier competitive lists to an event, you were probably getting smashed pretty hard. At the end of mk2 basically every competitive list was a tier list, and you would often run into an event simply hoping to avoid near auto-losses in your worst matchups. At that point, 'list building' often consisted of trying to figure out which combinations of 2-3 point solos you were going to add to your list. I enjoyed mark 2 a LOT, but it was a mess by the end of it. Casually, of course, there was plenty of options for list building. S.J. fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 01:56
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I think a lot of those themes were pretty late in Mk2's lifespan weren't they? Body and Soul wasn't a thing when I was playing Cryx at least.
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Sep 22, 2021 11:29
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Hipster Occultist posted:I think a lot of those themes were pretty late in Mk2's lifespan weren't they? Body and Soul wasn't a thing when I was playing Cryx at least. Yeah and very faction-specific since they were tied to specific casters - certainly Menoth only had a few that mattered and the general lack of free models made them not that relevant. Harby tier was okay but no vassals or errants was a real limit, Kreoss2 tier was the only way you'd play him, and Kreoss3 let you play 4 cav units, but they certainly weren't the only options. Heaps of themes were just effectively a +1 to go first along with initial deployment bonuses, nowhere near as defining. My fave terrible theme was Amon, the jack caster who didn't allow choir and required two units of Idrians.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:27
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Hipster Occultist posted:I think a lot of those themes were pretty late in Mk2's lifespan weren't they? Body and Soul wasn't a thing when I was playing Cryx at least. Some specific ones were, because they were tied to a models release. Like Bradigus. But a lot of them weren't. It's certainly true that a lot of themes weren't worth playing, but that's in large part because the themes that were good were obscenely good, even faction defining.
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Sep 23, 2021 05:44
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S.J. posted:Some specific ones were, because they were tied to a models release. Like Bradigus. But a lot of them weren't. When I played Mk2, most of the themes in the faction books were widely considered to be garbage compared to the lists you could manually construct. Later releases (like Vayl2) had better themes that saw competitive play, but I got around and never really saw a lot of them. I was in a fairly competitive meta at the time as well. I played Cryx for like 3-4 years in Mk2, and never Body and Soul for example. I only heard about after coming back to Mk3.
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Sep 23, 2021 06:38
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Hipster Occultist posted:When I played Mk2, most of the themes in the faction books were widely considered to be garbage compared to the lists you could manually construct. Later releases (like Vayl2) had better themes that saw competitive play, but I got around and never really saw a lot of them. I was in a fairly competitive meta at the time as well. Yeah, there were definitely casters like Gaspy 2 that were just good regardless. Body and Soul is a good example of a theme that showed up not too long before the end of the edition. But there were a lot of themes in play very consistently by the end of Mk2. There were also a few casters like Haley 2 that had the luxury of being able to play either way. But most of the models/casters/etc in any given faction in Mk2 were borderline unplayable to begin with if you were actually trying to do well in an event, so there was a pretty decent overlap between stuff that happened to be good and casters/locks that also just happened to have decent tier lists available. Internal balance for any given faction was pretty atrocious after the first release or two into the edition. e: I am interested in whatever supposed announcement is supposed to be coming out today, though S.J. fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 06:57
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Well this sure seems like a good move https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/09/23/warmachine-hordes-dynamic-update-preview/
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Sep 23, 2021 18:24
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Acknowledging that half the units in the game have a problem is great. I hope they have enough time to really sort things out though. A month seems very ambitious.
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Sep 23, 2021 19:03
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Maneck posted:Acknowledging that half the units in the game have a problem is great. I hope they have enough time to really sort things out though. A month seems very ambitious. Do you think they only started doing this work today? They've probably been working on these changes for a better part of the year.
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Sep 23, 2021 19:11
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I certainly have my doubts that they have the resources to deliver a Very Good game-wide balance patch, but it's still absolutely correct to try, especially with regard to the furthest outliers.
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Sep 23, 2021 19:52
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I'm prepared to be underwhelmed but honestly very encouraged to see something like this at all, it's definitely necessary.
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Sep 23, 2021 20:14
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Promising! I guess my feeling that 'triple initiates are clearly too good as requisition and will be nerfed so don't buy them' was right, just, you know, years too late.
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Sep 23, 2021 20:47
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Dhunian Archon being special issue makes me sad but it hardly changes anything for my Trolls so it's fine. Excited to see what buffs end up looking like since my Cygnar and Cyriss have been sitting on a shelf for some time now.
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Sep 24, 2021 01:32
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I honestly wish they just flat out invalidated part of their catalog. trim down the game and make it easier for people to get into it. I'm still on the train but enthusiasm about the game has waned a ton. a lot of people I know have switched back to magic. it's going to be hard convincing someone to switch when magic has great rewards for their tourneys and multiple formats I dunno I think I'm just bummed about it all
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Sep 24, 2021 01:56
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Dude I fuckin feel you. Especially without having any consistent way to play through the last year and a half. e: I've just been spending the last day joking in my local chat that most of the cygnar changes are just going to be poo poo like "gun mages gain the gun mage keyword" S.J. fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 02:19
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Khador not even mentioned in the nerf list validated by gut feeling about the state of the faction. I really do hope that something comes of these changes and PP puts a focus on renewing interest in the game beyond just dumping new FOTM meta breaking bullshit to push sales. I moved last year and the new city I’m in used to have a super solid crew of players. The shop that hosted all the events closed down, but the folks should still be around.
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Sep 24, 2021 12:50
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:I honestly wish they just flat out invalidated part of their catalog. trim down the game and make it easier for people to get into it. I'm still on the train but enthusiasm about the game has waned a ton. a lot of people I know have switched back to magic. it's going to be hard convincing someone to switch when magic has great rewards for their tourneys and multiple formats Making parts of the armies "Legends" or whatever would be fine if their paired it with a real effort to reinvigorate retail channels and bring in new players.
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Sep 24, 2021 14:50
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I mentioned this to my gaming group and got shrugs. One of them asked me if I was talking about the Marvel Champions character.
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Sep 24, 2021 14:59
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I mean the game started out as a tabletop analogue to a competitive CCG like magic so I'm actually surprised they haven't done formats yet.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:33
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They did it in a half assed manner with the limited warcaster format (Champions?)
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Sep 24, 2021 16:56
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zerofiend posted:They did it in a half assed manner with the limited warcaster format (Champions?) That was a neat idea, I liked it.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:02
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Yeah, I actually liked that, it's just too bad there wasn't much (it seemed, at least) general interest in it.
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Sep 25, 2021 00:43
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This seems like a great idea to me, and for me a large part of it is just that it passes the smell test, y'know? Like, there are BUNCH of Merc models / units that are just obviously not good enough. Doing a CID where you look at Rhulic or something seems like it would need to feature more dramatic updates / new models / rules etc which isn't worth doing. But this, this is exactly what is needed, just an acknowledgment that as a whole, the game needs looking at, and then bringing 'everything' up (or down) to a certain power level, possibly with just points adjustments.
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Sep 26, 2021 01:00
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!Klams posted:This seems like a great idea to me, and for me a large part of it is just that it passes the smell test, y'know? Like, there are BUNCH of Merc models / units that are just obviously not good enough. Doing a CID where you look at Rhulic or something seems like it would need to feature more dramatic updates / new models / rules etc which isn't worth doing. But this, this is exactly what is needed, just an acknowledgment that as a whole, the game needs looking at, and then bringing 'everything' up (or down) to a certain power level, possibly with just points adjustments. Yeah it's screamingly obvious what models need to be looked at too - you could literally set up a plan where you, every six months, reduce the cost of the unused 1/3 of the models in the game, raise the cost of the most-used 1/3 models, and be done. No need to worry too much about overbuffing certain things because you know it's going to happen anyway and you can nerf it next round, and it mixes things up, keeps the game fresh, and encourages people to buy the entire line. Next, set up a rule where you can use any version of a model with multiple iterations and the same base size (use either kreoss1 or kreoss2's model) and you can cut a huge chunk of skus from regular sale - keep kreoss2 available mailorder if you want, some people will buy them all anyway.
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Sep 26, 2021 01:22
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koreban posted:Khador not even mentioned in the nerf list validated by gut feeling about the state of the faction. Ditto for Cryx. The last time I played at a club, one of our top tourney guys remarked that you could probably put pre-nerf Gaspy2 back in the game without really changing much, such is the state of the power curve these days. I'm cautiously optimistic for this dynamic update.
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Sep 27, 2021 06:41
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Hipster Occultist posted:Ditto for Cryx. Honestly you could probably do that with him, Haley 2, Caine 2, and probably more than a few other things that used to terrorize the game at this point. I'm sure not all the buffs will be up to the levels people want, but it's good to shake up the game without a big model release involved, and even if only a few things really become newly competitive that's still good for the game.
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Sep 27, 2021 07:24
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They're previewing QOL changes. Notable ones include:
Don't like the Primal change - but the rest look good.
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Sep 30, 2021 23:22
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Yeah, that primal change stinks on ice
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Sep 30, 2021 23:31
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I like the primal change. They said that anyone who already had cheap access to it will be having their beasts get a pow buff as well, so I'm more than happy with that.
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Sep 30, 2021 23:38
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S.J. posted:I like the primal change. They said that anyone who already had cheap access to it will be having their beasts get a pow buff as well, so I'm more than happy with that. But with the Pow buff Primal becomes even less useful. +1/+1 doesn't feel like enough of a swing to be worth it (+2/+0 I think would and +0/+2 probably also would).
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Oct 1, 2021 00:13
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Not enough of a swing... for what exactly? That looks good to me. We don't know if primal is staying cost 2 or what the price points of primal beasts will be yet. Not needing to put primal in a list by default is okay with me. E: Caine with Pistoleer makes me laugh S.J. fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 00:39
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Can anyone confirm if the both the Stormwall and the Storm Raptor are all-plastic kits? The PP store says they are, but I haven't bought anything from them in years and just wanted to confirm. That seems like a detail that could/would easily be entered incorrectly 
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Oct 3, 2021 16:41
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The original Stormwall was metal and resin, but the newer Hurricane/Stormwall dual-kit is plastic, and the Storm Raptor has always been plastic. If you're buying on eBay or something, just make sure the listing says Hurricane/Stormwall and not just Stormwall and you should be fine.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:09
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A friend does freelance editorial work for PP and is doing some work 'for free', for some reason, and is going to ask for a mini as payment 
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Oct 3, 2021 19:01
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Sab669 posted:A friend does freelance editorial work for PP and is doing some work 'for free', for some reason, and is going to ask for a mini as payment He should ask for actual payment I think.
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Oct 3, 2021 19:46
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He just wrapped up work that was multiple thousands of dollars from them. He just messaged me the other day sayingquote:If I could score any model I wanted from PP as payment for some OMG-PLZ-QUIK thing I'm sort of doing for them gratis, would you be interested in picking something? So who am I to say no to a free mini
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Oct 3, 2021 19:56
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Isn't volunteer work in exchange for a mini exactly the poo poo that got the Press Ganger program closed down? Additionally, there are fantastic writers and creators that do creative work for companies like PP for a living, and undermining their value by doing work pro-bono/for exposure/in trade for a mini just makes it that much harder for passionate people who *want* to do work for companies like them.
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Oct 3, 2021 23:54
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I don't know what to tell you guys. He's been passionately working with them for years, I don't know what the deal is with this little project or why he's not charging his usual rate. Believe me though when I tell you he is deeply passionate about the fluff and used to be a huge Khador player back in the day.
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Oct 4, 2021 03:45
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I don't want to disparage your friend unfairly, or suggest that he's some sort of scab writer. I just dislike the idea of people doing pro bono work for companies like PP and not taking standard pay when I read about how TG writers/creators are bending over backward trying to etch a living out of their work, because who's going to hire a professional writer or game designer when Matt Wilson can just trade a couple resin minis from their backstocked warehouse full of poo poo they haven't been able to sell for 3 years?
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Oct 4, 2021 04:49
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