[Anarchists] propaganda of the weeb

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AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018; Can't post for 4 hours!

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/tristang300/status/1439847286192971776

Just want him back.

Also lmao weren't the weather underground maoists?

# ? Sep 21, 2021 22:08

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 23:21

croup coughfield: Apr 8, 2020; Can't post for 59 days!

AnimeIsTrash posted:

Also lmao weren't the weather underground maoists?

they were MLs on paper, at least, though id argue that their strategy wasn't all that marxist or leninist

# ? Sep 22, 2021 03:20

F Stop Fitzgerald: Dec 12, 2010

quote:

In an interview published in 1995, Ayers characterized his political beliefs at that time and in the 1960s and 1970s: "I am a radical, Leftist, small 'c' communist ... [Laughs] Maybe I'm the last communist who is willing to admit it. [Laughs] We have always been small 'c' communists in the sense that we were never in the Communist party and never Stalinists. The ethics of communism still appeal to me. I don't like Lenin as much as the early Marx. I also like Henry David Thoreau, Mother Jones and Jane Addams [...]"

yeah im more of fan of the early marx

# ? Sep 22, 2021 03:40

hot witch divorcee: Jan 4, 2021; is that a tower in your pants or are you just happy to see me

once again, it is all about bedtimes

# ? Sep 22, 2021 15:28

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

those seem like pretty important questions, except for the one about will there still be cities or will people spread out evenly across the globe, which is a very stupid question a child would come up with

# ? Sep 22, 2021 16:36

hot witch divorcee: Jan 4, 2021; is that a tower in your pants or are you just happy to see me

paul_soccer12 posted:

those seem like pretty important questions, except for the one about will there still be cities or will people spread out evenly across the globe, which is a very stupid question a child would come up with

its ok we'll just like figure that out when we get there or whatever. the important thing is there are no bedtimes

# ? Sep 22, 2021 16:54

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I'm not going to lie, I feel the same frustration when smug liberal centrists do their whole "Well if you think better things are possible, tell me what the zoning laws in Peoria will be under communism in the year 3000"

# ? Sep 22, 2021 16:56

pnac attack: Jul 7, 2021; by Fluffdaddy

everyone owning the bedtimes strawman is a huge baby that wants to be tucked in by cops

# ? Sep 22, 2021 17:43

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

pnac attack posted:

everyone owning the bedtimes strawman is a huge baby that wants to be tucked in by cops

when u think about it, parents are really just bedtime police :thunk:

# ? Sep 22, 2021 17:43

hot witch divorcee: Jan 4, 2021; is that a tower in your pants or are you just happy to see me

Halloween Jack posted:

I'm not going to lie, I feel the same frustration when smug liberal centrists do their whole "Well if you think better things are possible, tell me what the zoning laws in Peoria will be under communism in the year 3000"

yes but it has to get to zoning laws in peoria under communism in the year 3000, not very simple questions like "so how do you enforce this no domination thing"

# ? Sep 22, 2021 17:49

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

It wouldn't be so funny if it didn't keep coming up

# ? Sep 22, 2021 17:50

croup coughfield: Apr 8, 2020; Can't post for 59 days!

bedtimes are actually a way i often open up conversations with people im trying to organize when discussing the power of the boss over our lives. i thought it was dumb when i first came up with it but it works more often than you might think. i think its because people get pissed off when they feel infantilized and nothing is more infantilizing than bedtime. never underestimate the power of the anarchist to take a working argument and completely gently caress it up

# ? Sep 22, 2021 18:20

henkman: Oct 8, 2008

pnac attack posted:

everyone owning the bedtimes strawman is a huge baby that wants to be tucked in by cops

I tuck myself in, bitch

# ? Sep 22, 2021 18:45

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

paul_soccer12 posted:

those seem like pretty important questions, except for the one about will there still be cities or will people spread out evenly across the globe, which is a very stupid question a child would come up with

�c�mon, let�s just abolish everything, we can worry about all the insignificant details later. what? your daughter�s life depends on a dependable supply of daily medication and you want to make sure freight shipments will continue? well I�m not sure who will want to volunteer to drive the trucks but don�t worry about it just let us know the next time you fill your 21 day prescription and we�ll start the revolution that night, I�m sure everything will be settled by the time she needs more medicine�

# ? Sep 22, 2021 18:55

pnac attack: Jul 7, 2021; by Fluffdaddy

"quit heroin? but that's what makes me happy"

# ? Sep 22, 2021 18:59

John Charity Spring: Nov 4, 2009; SCREEEEE

how do you square being an anarcho-primitivist with thinking everyone should try living in their car, pnac attack

# ? Sep 22, 2021 19:04

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

indigi posted:

�c�mon, let�s just abolish everything, we can worry about all the insignificant details later. what? your daughter�s life depends on a dependable supply of daily medication and you want to make sure freight shipments will continue? well I�m not sure who will want to volunteer to drive the trucks but don�t worry about it just let us know the next time you fill your 21 day prescription and we�ll start the revolution that night, I�m sure everything will be settled by the time she needs more medicine�

Well... Lenin himself says kind of the same thing in state and rev. Essentially "those questions are for after the state withers away, and trying to guess at their answers is a distraction/utopianism".

This is the one thing I'm not 100% on board with or understanding. Folks making fun of anarchists about 'how will you do x without a state', but.... the end goal of communism also doesn't have a state, so how WILL those things be done?

EDIT: The answer is the same in both: 'administrative' functions don't have anything to do with a state, right?

Kaedric has issued a correction as of 19:58 on Sep 22, 2021

# ? Sep 22, 2021 19:55

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

In Marxist thought, "the state" and "government" aren't the same thing. The state is "the executive committee of the ruling class," so a classless society will have governance but it won't be a state as Marx defined it.

# ? Sep 22, 2021 19:57

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Kaedric posted:

Well... Lenin himself says kind of the same thing in state and rev. Essentially "those questions are for after the state withers away, and trying to guess at their answers is a distraction/utopianism".

This is the one thing I'm not 100% on board with or understanding. Folks making fun of anarchists about 'how will you do x without a state', but.... the end goal of communism also doesn't have a state, so how WILL those things be done?

the state doesn�t wither away overnight. the process of the state dissolving involves identifying the solutions to the problems usually solved or facilitated by the state apparatus.

the problem is anarchists want it to wither away overnight with no transition between capitalism and communism, which is dumb

# ? Sep 22, 2021 19:59

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

pnac attack posted:

"quit heroin? but that's what makes me happy"

wow turns out you're just a poo poo

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:21

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Doctor Jeep posted:

wow turns out you're just a poo poo

I don�t know if they�re a poo poo, they just seem completely ignorant. no long term heroin addict will tell you it makes them happy

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:26

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

I think that heroin isn't going to be in short supply in an anarchist utopia given that no mechanism exists to curtail or stomp out cartel behaviors. Lifesaving medicine of course is a separate matter. Not sure why those were conflated

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:27

christmas boots: Oct 15, 2012; To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out; Biscuit Hider

Anarchy means I get to pee wherever I want, whenever I want.

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:29

hot witch divorcee: Jan 4, 2021; is that a tower in your pants or are you just happy to see me

Kaedric posted:

Well... Lenin himself says kind of the same thing in state and rev. Essentially "those questions are for after the state withers away, and trying to guess at their answers is a distraction/utopianism".

This is the one thing I'm not 100% on board with or understanding. Folks making fun of anarchists about 'how will you do x without a state', but.... the end goal of communism also doesn't have a state, so how WILL those things be done?

EDIT: The answer is the same in both: 'administrative' functions don't have anything to do with a state, right?

the state will wither but organizational functions won't. its impossible to know the proverbial zoning laws in peoria in the year 3000 but the general idea of the form it takes is something of a worldwide democratic centralist governance with branches and leaves in every region, including what are now considered states, handling whatever needs to be done to manage resources and services in that region while negotiating with bodies beside, below, and above them to ensure efficiency and cooperation.

some anarchists aren't super fond of this because it implies a hierarchy still exists, but i am not an anarchist in no small part because i disagree with this (popular) strain of anarchism. better read anarchists tend to want to organize things this way as well as they are against unjust hierarchies but they can get jumpy about these organizing bodies having any ability to enforce anything. i dont see how this is supposed to work either. as the state withers there won't be nearly as much, if any, need to use violence or coercion required in the functioning of the government, which would actually be by and for the people with everyone's interest in mind, and thus problems and disputes would be worked out in a timely manner using avenues of redress accessible to all so there would be no need for violence.

at least on a larger/governance scale. what i dont think we can know is what society looks like after several generations of the state being withered. will we need forces with The People's Stick to stop people from brutalizing others still, or would a society that has been taught about consent and has a general lack of want from birth in all living memory not even really have problems with that? i think too much anarchism focuses on this unknowable question, when we can all just agree that all cops are bad and current states has to be smashed, aside from 5 in particular there might be some disagreements on.

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:31

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

hot witch divorcee posted:

will we need forces with The People's Stick to stop people from brutalizing others still, or would a society that has been taught about consent and has a general lack of want from birth in all living memory not even really have problems with that?

I think we will, not on the scale of today but humans are humans. sometimes someone is gonna say something dumb and catch a fade, or a mentally ill sociopath is gonna become a serial killer, or a parent is gonna abuse their child. gonna need detectives (who will function more like social workers) at the very least but it�d be smart to have a crew ready to roll after the home team has a bad playoff loss in a soccer game

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:40

eSporks: Jun 10, 2011

hot witch divorcee posted:

or would a society that has been taught about consent and has a general lack of want from birth in all living memory not even really have problems with that?

This is sorta why I see Anarchism as a religion. It only works if everyone is on board, and I don't see how it handles someone, or a group of someone's that stray from the social ideology.

I still think it's not a bad message to spread, and I also think it's at the core of most religions. I just don't see it as capable of sustaining itself. Someone with power will always be there to try and use it.

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:42

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

eSporks posted:

This is sorta why I see Anarchism as a religion. It only works if everyone is on board, and I don't see how it handles someone, or a group of someone's that stray from the social ideology.

EZLN (I know they�re not traditional anarchists) have done a good job with this, they don�t incorporate an area until the population is educated on theory and knows what they�re getting into. they outlawed all drugs and have been united enough in that to be able to fend off cartel advances into their territory

# ? Sep 22, 2021 20:56

Pentecoastal Elites: Feb 27, 2007

Kaedric posted:

Well... Lenin himself says kind of the same thing in state and rev. Essentially "those questions are for after the state withers away, and trying to guess at their answers is a distraction/utopianism".

This is the one thing I'm not 100% on board with or understanding. Folks making fun of anarchists about 'how will you do x without a state', but.... the end goal of communism also doesn't have a state, so how WILL those things be done?

EDIT: The answer is the same in both: 'administrative' functions don't have anything to do with a state, right?

in a fully realized communist world there'd be organs of administration that any of us, as capital subjects, could point at and say "hey this looks like a state to me", but the "state" as in the socioeconomic apparatus through which the capital class dominates the working class dissolves as class conflict is resolved. It's not so much that communism has a goal of a stateless world, per se, but the state as it existed prior to communism cannot manifest for the same reasons we don't see baronic feudalism manifesting in modern global capitalism.

The communist "state", in as much as you'd want to use that word to describe it, is the socioeconomic apparatus to execute the workers' will over the world, rather than the capitalists' will over the workers.

also Lenin, specifically, was largely making a point about his contemporaries who were often caught up in the same dumb arguments we have all the time nowadays about eg. zoning laws in Peoria whereas he had some actual poo poo that had to get done asap

# ? Sep 22, 2021 21:03

Sedisp: Jun 20, 2012

Kaedric posted:

Well... Lenin himself says kind of the same thing in state and rev. Essentially "those questions are for after the state withers away, and trying to guess at their answers is a distraction/utopianism".

This is the one thing I'm not 100% on board with or understanding. Folks making fun of anarchists about 'how will you do x without a state', but.... the end goal of communism also doesn't have a state, so how WILL those things be done?

EDIT: The answer is the same in both: 'administrative' functions don't have anything to do with a state, right?

I mean that's exactly the point? We DON'T know how to do those things so until we do we should probably have some form of state then figure out which parts can be withered how fast and when. As opposed to anarchism which is "Bro just do it now we already live in post scarcity!" Obviously not all anarchists are like this but almost all western anarchists are.

# ? Sep 22, 2021 22:10

matti: Mar 31, 2019

- no

# ? Sep 23, 2021 00:45

Sedisp: Jun 20, 2012

I said most matti I left plenty of room for bed time anarchists and 7 billion humans should die world is a gently caress anarchists. It's a broad spectrum of dummies and some okay ones mixed in.

# ? Sep 23, 2021 01:00