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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:https://news.yahoo.com/britain-may-revert-back-imperial-070152287.html?_guc_consent_skip=1631951697 This is the most boomer thing to ever loving come out of the UK nobody cares about your stupid loving measurement system that can barely be used in engineering Only super boomers give a gently caress about English units Truniht fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 18:18
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:It's not endemic in that sense, but there's been large numbers of wild animals in the US catching covid so it's endemic in the sense that there are now zoonotic reservoirs that would keep introducing the virus back into the human population even if we somehow got global human infections down to zero. That’s not “endemic” either though, plus there is already an animal reservoir out there somewhere. Animal reservoirs make it harder to harder to make go away forever, but as you say, crossovers are rare and could be isolated. Having endemic human SARS-CoV-2 actually increases the likelihood of crossover pandemics. The human and deer viruses are likely to diverge, but SARS coronaviruses are recombinant so a zoonotic events that happen to coincide with human infections can share genes to create novel variants that inherit the genes making them suitable for infecting humans. This is what usually happens with zoonotic influenza pandemics - coinfection of pigs with human and animal strains leads to recombination of human-adapted strains with zoonotic novel genes. And it goes the other way too - ongoing crossover from humans to deer could keep human-relevant genes in the deer virus population!
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Sep 22, 2021 18:25
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For me the larger issue is that practically every doctor/epidemiologist/authority/YouTube guy is now saying the same - get vaxxed because it’s not going away, it’s endemic (whatever that means, exactly, the idea is “here to stay”), etc etc Even formerly optimistic guys are like “well things are gonna be bad for winter but we can’t do anything about it anymore, get vaxxed, it will end someday, it’s not gonna be this bad forever but it’s here to stay”  Edit: pretty sure I have some sort of psych damage now, I wanna go out but the anxiety won’t let me, even seeing one person without a mask makes me feel bad which makes dating somewhat uhh difficult On the other hand I’ll admit I enjoy time alone to play and read and watch movies
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Sep 22, 2021 18:32
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If we're all going to catch it, I want to take it catch it with therapeutics available so I minimize my long covid chances. I'm not in a risk category (that I know of) but I'm going to see if I can get my doctor to hook me up with Regeneron when my special day arrives. https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1440404136034398220
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Sep 22, 2021 18:42
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:Edit: pretty sure I have some sort of psych damage now, I wanna go out but the anxiety won’t let me, even seeing one person without a mask makes me feel bad which makes dating somewhat uhh difficult Oh man, nobody in my town wears masks anymore. I feel like the odd one out still wearing one.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:43
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Zil posted:Sadly it's only illegal for HIV for some reason. Can we start spreading a rumor that there's a mean old pack of roving gay people with COVID who are trying to purposely infect our precious Trump-loving heterosexual men? Maybe then we'll get some legislation.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:45
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I got cut off in traffic in the Bay Area of all places by a giant F250 with 2 masks hanging from his hitch like they are truck nuts. this country is loving doomed, there is no path forward. I don’t even think that guy realizes that the tech people in the bay don’t care because they’re making more money than ever and can do it now while hanging out with their family at home while that dude is the one that really suffers but something something liberals
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Sep 22, 2021 18:47
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dk2m posted:I got cut off in traffic in the Bay Area of all places by a giant F250 with 2 masks hanging from his hitch like they are truck nuts. this country is loving doomed, there is no path forward. What really, truly baffles me is how all of this stigma has become attached to a mask, of all things. The sheer absurdity of it. It's... a protective garment that you put over your face to prevent the spread of disease. Like, if these dudes get wheeled in for surgery and see the doctors around them wearing masks are they gonna be like "aw poo poo the LIBS have gotten to you too"
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Sep 22, 2021 18:52
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Tiny Myers posted:
And when they die their family members will scream at the doctors for not giving them horse paste and killing them with the ventilator.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:57
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Truniht posted:This is the most boomer thing to ever loving come out of the UK nobody cares about your stupid loving measurement system that can barely be used in engineering It's off-topic but also instructive of the particular flavour of how we hosed up our covid response. The UK actually started the process of going metric in the 60s, long before we joined the European Economic Community - there's a longer story here about the New Elizabethan era and our attempts to redefine our place in the world post-Empire, but I'll spare you it. The point was that it's obviously not something that can be done overnight and so chugged along, relatively smoothly, throughout the 60s and 70s (decimalisation of the currency was the biggest sticking point) but pretty much stalled in the 80s because all of the places where it actually *matters* were on metric and nobody much cared for the fight so the remaining customary units used for day-to-day commerce got redefined as specific metric amounts - pints for beer and milk, miles for distances and speeds (because nobody even knew how to *start* changing every road sign and speedo in the country), even the railways got to keep miles and chains. Everything went to poo poo in the 90s. Like I say technically everything was meant to be done in metric measures but it was and is perfectly legal to sell potatoes by the pound, or the hundredweight, or whatever *but* you had to use scales approved by the Weights and Measures inspectors for obvious reasons (hell enforcing consistent weights and measures is pretty much the first thing any government in history has done), and the inspectors began to enforce the (1985) law that to be legal a scale *must* be marked in metric. You can mark it in any other measure you want, but grams and kilos have to be on there, and that's what they get tested against. A couple of fruit and veg traders refused to give up (or have re-marked) some scales that they'd been using since 18hundredandfrozentodeath but it got wrapped up in the culture wars over the Maastricht treaty, which were of course massively fanned by a fat lazy dickhead working as European correspondent for the Daily Telegraph, lazily making up storied about the EU banning bendy bananas just to see how angry he could make people. That correspondent, one Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, was thankfully soon found out and never heard from again. This got so overblown that these gammons became known as the "metric martyrs" after they kept refusing to actually follow the basic law of the land, meaning that the people who are actually most exercised about this poo poo *aren't* boomers (who for the most part never even noticed), but early Gen-Xers like Boris who of course value the symbolism and jingoism far more than any actual practical measures. Like I say the same thing is happening now with out covid response. The people who are against lockdowns, enforcement of quarantine, masking, etc are actually dead-eyed Thatcherite drones who strongly believe they fought in WW2 even though their parents were too young to have done so. Right at the very beginning of the pandemic one of them (I can't remember who and they all blend together after a while) posted something along the lines of "WELL THE PUBS WERE STILL OPEN IN THE BLITZ" which I think will always be my archetype for that very particular form of derangement.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:58
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Stickman posted:That’s not “endemic” either though The epidemiology text book that the CDC references sure thinks it is: quote:Principles of Epidemiology in Public Health Practice, Third Edition Malaria, Dengue, rabies and Lyme disease are all considered to be endemic to certain regions even though they're spread to humans via an animal vector. HIV had a zoonotic origin but is not technically considered to be endemic.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:58
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Tiny Myers posted:What really, truly baffles me is how all of this stigma has become attached to a mask, of all things. The sheer absurdity of it. It's... a protective garment that you put over your face to prevent the spread of disease. It's like trying to get a toddler to wear their hat in the winter, you'll just get a chorus of I DON'T WANNA except the toddler has a gun and can vote
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Sep 22, 2021 19:02
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And just to clarify further, I think that the people who are arguing "Covid is endemic now so we just have to learn to live with it" as an excuse to drop all NPIs and just let 'er rip are morons and psychopaths and following that path will cause untold amounts of injury and death. The facemasks & social distancing and lockdowns that we've been doing so far are exactly how we "live with it" and keep the infection rate down so that we can start to open up again once we get the vaxx rate up high enough. At the very least we should keep them going until the kids vaccines get approved and we've had a few months to get them vaxxed up. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 19:02
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Tiny Myers posted:What really, truly baffles me is how all of this stigma has become attached to a mask, of all things. The sheer absurdity of it. It's... a protective garment that you put over your face to prevent the spread of disease. I will never forgive the CDCs waffling back when this started on masks because Trump was actually pushing for it publicly and then a bunch of experts muddied the waters by saying that they should be reserved for healthcare workers, actually only n95s work and it’s worse to wear a cloth one that nothing at all etc. if they just loving let trump be right, maybe things would be different
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Sep 22, 2021 19:14
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Hey look, some positive news for a change: https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1440671254684454918 Tiny Myers posted:What really, truly baffles me is how all of this stigma has become attached to a mask, of all things. Trump refused to be seen in public wearing a mask for months and months and the first time he allowed himself to be filmed in a mask (on July 12) was big news: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53378439 A week later he tweeted this:  ...... but it was too little too late and the damage had already been done, the MAGA crowd had already internalized the message that Trump hated masks
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Sep 22, 2021 19:25
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Hey look, some positive news for a change: There's an alternate universe where the people around Trump were actually *more* venal, and realised how much money they could make selling Trump-branded masks, hand sanitiser, etc.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:32
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Mask poo poo has shifted narratives a lot over the last year and a half but this is a good thread to get a sense of how hosed up everything was, and how every single institution failed us, not just the obvious one of the trump admin https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1282356452716433412?s=20
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Sep 22, 2021 19:37
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dk2m posted:Mask poo poo has shifted narratives a lot over the last year and a half but this is a good thread to get a sense of how hosed up everything was, and how every single institution failed us, not just the obvious one of the trump admin https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1440465570730680323?s=20 
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Sep 22, 2021 19:58
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Zil posted:Sadly it's only illegal for HIV for some reason. It's because for a long time AIDS was considered "The Gay Disease", that's literally the reason
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Sep 22, 2021 21:06
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dk2m posted:Mask poo poo has shifted narratives a lot over the last year and a half but this is a good thread to get a sense of how hosed up everything was, and how every single institution failed us, not just the obvious one of the trump admin What’s really baffling to me is that Fauci and others prefer be remembered as people who lied to the public, but it was for a good cause, you see, supposedly preserving protective equipment for important people. This is in contrast to the reality where they were merely factually wrong and in good company in their mistaken belief.
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Sep 22, 2021 21:14
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dk2m posted:I will never forgive the CDCs waffling back when this started on masks because Trump was actually pushing for it publicly and then a bunch of experts muddied the waters by saying that they should be reserved for healthcare workers, actually only n95s work and it’s worse to wear a cloth one that nothing at all etc. if they just loving let trump be right, maybe things would be different I think you're mixing up the timing of events but I'd be happy to be proven wrong; my recollection was that Trump didn't say anything about masks for many months after everyone was on the same page regarding cloth masks being good enough at the time
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Sep 22, 2021 21:15
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dk2m posted:Mask poo poo has shifted narratives a lot over the last year and a half but this is a good thread to get a sense of how hosed up everything was, and how every single institution failed us, not just the obvious one of the trump admin If people weren't fuckin stupid hoarders they wouldn't have had to lie so that first responders and medical personnel could get supplies in
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Sep 22, 2021 21:32
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vyst posted:If people weren't fuckin stupid hoarders they wouldn't have had to lie so that first responders and medical personnel could get supplies in
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Sep 22, 2021 21:32
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vyst posted:If people weren't fuckin stupid hoarders they wouldn't have had to lie so that first responders and medical personnel could get supplies in Except they were never competing with the general public, no? Hospitals were never going to buy out of the same supply chains as hardware & dept stores. As evidenced by that company that started mfg N95's in the US and then was told to gently caress off and no hospital would buy them even when they were making ER nurses use the same mask for a week.
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Sep 22, 2021 21:34
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Rescue Toaster posted:Except they were never competing with the general public, no? Hospitals were never going to buy out of the same supply chains as hardware & dept stores. As evidenced by that company that started mfg N95's in the US and then was told to gently caress off and no hospital would buy them even when they were making ER nurses use the same mask for a week. They absolutely were competing with those supply chains because if you were a nurse you had to go buy your own n95s from the hardware store.
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Sep 22, 2021 21:49
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The epidemiology text book that the CDC references sure thinks it is: I know I'm getting into the technical pedantry weeds here because we all have a decent understanding of what's happening dynamically even if we're arguing about terminology, but COVID is not currently endemic in deer for the same reason that it isn't endemic in humans. It's a newly introduced disease that is still in it's epidemic phase and likely changing rapidly. It's certainly not at the point that it has stabilized to some "baseline" dynamics, which is the key distinction between endemic and epidemic. There's some gray area around "stability" and "baseline", but we're not there in humans and we're probably not there in deer either! Malaria, Dengue, rabies, etc. have all been around long enough that they have relatively predictable cyclic baseline dynamics in regions where they are present. It's all somewhat moot because it all becomes correct usage if we just say COVID "will likely become endemic" instead of "is endemic". It just irks me that even folks working in health who should know better are misusing "endemic" to support nonsense "and therefore we need to stop doing X" arguments (and we're definitely in agreement there!) Same with the various MSM conflations of "endemic" with "not much of a problem on the population level" (endemic disease can have huge burdens) or "here to stay, nothing to be done" (there's a laundry list of formerly endemic diseases that have been effectively eliminated). Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 21:53
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Tiny Myers posted:Like, if these dudes get wheeled in for surgery and see the doctors around them wearing masks are they gonna be like "aw poo poo the LIBS have gotten to you too" Some of the popular "evidence" touted by anti-maskers are research studies into whether it is effective for medical staff to wear masks. The end finding in those studies was that masks made no difference for germ spread (or even that wearing masks resulted in MORE spread, like in Tunevall 1991 "Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study"). These are actual research studies in journals, so the chuds parade them around whenever someone asks for sources. Of course, ignoring completely that in order to find the name for that Tunevall (1991) study I had to scroll past like a dozen other studies (all the way from 1984 (  ) to all the most recent 2021 stuff) that all support mask usage for the purposes we're all actually talking about... when you actually dig into these studies you find that they are about preventing wound infection in surgery patients (specifically staphylococcus infections - skin bacteria), and their primary argument is that the mask chafing on the face of the support staff can cause skin flakes to fall off and infect an open surgery site. They even, usually, have a caveat in the discussion saying that the surgeon and people working directly with a patient should probably wear a mask to protect themselves from whatever the patient has, and their primary argument is that if you can't catch what the patient has and you're not working directly with the site, you should be allowed to go maskless if you want. (But mostly under the hedge of "until we can prove masks have any additional benefit", and sometimes under the hedge of "maybe disinfect your face in addition to your hands so that you don't flake nasty chunks of skin onto your patients").But since chuds are linking paywalled abstracts and not the full article (academia is stupid), all you get to see is "The use of masks should be reconsidered", and gosh durn it that's good enough for them! So yeah. They're probably waving these kinds of studies in the faces of their very tired, very jaded surgeon.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:01
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QuarkJets posted:I think you're mixing up the timing of events but I'd be happy to be proven wrong; my recollection was that Trump didn't say anything about masks for many months after everyone was on the same page regarding cloth masks being good enough at the time It’s incredible people have forgotten already - Trump said it would be over by Easter, it was a big nothing, they have it under control, etc etc Then he came out with his graph saying 200k Americans dead would be a huge success When it got serious he suggested injecting bleach, or UV light Then he got Covid, and was saved by some bleeding edge med tech involving like 20 top doctors (none of these doctors were the same public facing doctors he had flogging the “pandemic over” message) The world froze for a bit, expectantly, but then he came out of the illness and immediately removed his mask “in a show of strength” Biden might be loving up in completely different ways, but Ol Donnie pushed the “gently caress everything up” button every chance he got, someone please document his actions because I’m seeing “actually Trump would be doing this better  ” No, no he wouldn’t, in a million years He actually hosed it up pre-pandemic because he disbanded the epidemic response team or some such, claiming they were too expensive He might deserve credit for not screwing up the Operation Warpspeed that incentivized vaccine makers to take the chance with factories etc, to be fair (but if you’re dealing with hypotheticals, I imagine any other president would’ve done the same). Also Trump can’t get his own base to take vaccines he authorized
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Sep 22, 2021 22:09
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vyst posted:If people weren't fuckin stupid hoarders they wouldn't have had to lie so that first responders and medical personnel could get supplies in The problem is that I didn’t wear a mask for a long time because my friends, who are doctors and scientists mostly, actually yelled me with those talking points for trying to wear one. I didn’t really realize that it changed until I was scolded by a Target employee for not wearing one and I actually argued with them that they’re the irresponsible ones This is all to say that we were and continue to be so ill prepared for any of this and the constant mixed messaging has brought us to the point now where masks as truck nuts is apparently our reality. Country is hosed.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:25
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Tagra posted:Of course, ignoring completely that in order to find the name for that Tunevall (1991) study I had to scroll past like a dozen other studies (all the way from 1984 ( I would be the first person to say that nonfitted surgical masks are inadequate more than a year into the pandemic, but yeah, anyone who had kept up with the literature knew that they were measurably better than nothing. Platystemon posted:The truth is the truth regardless of our understanding of it, but in this case the data was out there. It just wasn’t in the head of Doctor Anthony Fauci.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:29
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QuarkJets posted:I think you're mixing up the timing of events but I'd be happy to be proven wrong; my recollection was that Trump didn't say anything about masks for many months after everyone was on the same page regarding cloth masks being good enough at the time He was saying that wearing masks might be good for the public, and mentioned that scarves could be an alternative if masks should be only for healthcare workers. But in typical broke brained fashion, he said that they “would be better” than masks so it was just not taken seriously. I remember reading this article back then. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/trump-scarf-coronavirus-mask-160589 But you’re right, by the time that there was open warfare between him and Fauci, CDC, etc, he just went against it I guess for political reasons. We never really recovered from that and masks continue to be a flashpoint because of this lovely effort across the board.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:33
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lol my family had a big meetup without me because "I'm all weird about covid" (immunocompromised wife) and now they all have covid because my nephew had a raging case and coughed on ALL the food.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:41
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dk2m posted:He was saying that wearing masks might be good for the public, and mentioned that scarves could be an alternative if masks should be only for healthcare workers. But in typical broke brained fashion, he said that they “would be better” than masks so it was just not taken seriously. He meant fashion-wise.
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Sep 22, 2021 23:27
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:It’s incredible people have forgotten already - Trump said it would be over by Easter, it was a big nothing, they have it under control, etc etc Yeah exactly, "they should have let him be right" doesn't make any sense when Trump was wrong at basically every stage of the pandemic. The problem with Biden is that he's trying to do many of the same things that Trump did: prioritizing "getting back to normal" by keeping schools and businesses open instead of paying people to stay home, suggesting people can stop wearing masks, etc. Trump was such a colossal fuckup that you do better than him by doing literally anything differently, and those are the ways in which Biden has done well: emphasizing the importance of vaccination, not declaring that the pandemic will be over by a specific arbitrary date, not pushing dubious medical cures, etc. If only the administration could take this lesson to heart and continue doing the opposite of Trump; maybe Biden's recent bike ride photos are a sign of this happening. dk2m posted:He was saying that wearing masks might be good for the public, and mentioned that scarves could be an alternative if masks should be only for healthcare workers. But in typical broke brained fashion, he said that they “would be better” than masks so it was just not taken seriously. I remember reading this article back then. Oh, I remember that, I remember Trump saying it would be better if everyone covered their faces with scarves, which were at one point shown to actually be worse than wearing nothing at all because they produced more aerosols.
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Sep 22, 2021 23:29
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:It’s incredible people have forgotten already - Trump said it would be over by Easter, it was a big nothing, they have it under control, etc etc Blaming the CDC's mask guidance on Trump Derangement Syndrome is a brand new one to me lol
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Sep 22, 2021 23:31
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I don’t it’s that simplistic - the CDC and WHO were playing it ultra safe and didn’t have a strong message at the onset. There was never really any scenario where Trump didn’t gently caress everything up, but it’s easy to forget respected institutions like the CDC seemed entirely caught off guard on even simple things like mask usage which Asian countries were, at the time, implementing on a wide spread basis as had massive consensus on. Ultimately did it matter that trumps half hearted attempts at suggesting mask usage were shot down? Probably not, he was never going to be on the same page as the scientific community but maybe if he didn’t get immediately dogpiled about it at the start, it would be “normal” and not part of the culture war, but I have no proof of that.
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Sep 22, 2021 23:45
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Fallom posted:Blaming the CDC's mask guidance on Trump Derangement Syndrome is a brand new one to me lol CDC was wrong too at the beginning, saying Trump screwed up doesn't mean the CDC did right 
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Sep 22, 2021 23:45
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I don't think Trump really "pushed" masks at all. He was entirely out of his depth and didn't care much one way or the other. Scott Gottlieb pushed universal masking in March and that's probably where Trump picked up his half-baked telephone scarf nonsense. Azar and Fauci and most of Trump's toadies were opposed for various wrong reasons so it never went anywhere - Trump himself was incidental.
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Sep 22, 2021 23:53
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https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/police-quebec-seek-man-punching-nurse-over-wifes-covid-19-shot-2021-09-22/ So when does the world stop tolerating the anti vaxx lunacy and start throwing em in the pokie (when they cross the proverbial line of course)
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Sep 23, 2021 00:07
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This country has not had the production capacity to make anything it needs in emergencies or for daily use for 30 or 40 years. Trump did nothing to reverse that, of course, though his voters think he did, or would when he kept America great the second time, or whatever. Trump was explicitly disinterested in using Defense Production Act at any point in the pandemic. Before, during, after, because of, or in spite of knowing how bad it would get or had gotten. After it was too late and the federal government realized it had done nothing to prepare, the surgeon general et al. chose a calculated lie in an attempt to control mask availability: that masks only work if you've gone to medical school, because hospital staff dying was gonna be very bad, and if the rest of us didn't touch our face, it was gonna be all right. But it turned out, it was not just the flu. Why is this conversation being had? We were all here through it.
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Sep 23, 2021 00:46
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