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Thinking on it, he really shouldn't have had Glokta so suspiciously out of the picture for so long. Part of the reason this didn't work, and the Bayaz twist in the original did work for me, was that Bayaz was always there, in the poo poo. Terror Sweat posted:But yeah, I definitely want to see more magic in this series, I don't give a poo poo about England, fantasy or otherwise. Especially fantasy England that doesn't have a single character that isn't a piece of poo poo and has lost 95 percent of the fantasy. More cowboy America vs wizard backed Romans would be good or the fantasy Arabia plagued with cannibal sorcerors I think Joe's said he doesn't want to write Ghurkul becase he's obviously coded it as Real Places He Doesn't Know poo poo About. So writing Brexit analogies in a place almost called the United Kingdom with an Angland is somewhat safer. That said, I hate the equation of cool, good revolutions that dethroned monarchies and/or fascists with "man, the voting public sure do some dumb poo poo these days. How about those antivaxxers, huh?" Paddyo posted:Is Zuri really supposed to be Ishri? I thought she just mentioned that she'd had lots of names?
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Sep 22, 2021 17:40
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VagueRant posted:Hah, is the audiobook that's got people spelling Rikke as Rikka? I still want to check out what voices Steven Pacey used for this trilogy at some point. Pacey FTW. He just adds so much, and the scene with Yoru going "knock knock" when he comes to kill Glokta (Glokter) makes me laugh just thinking about the voice he gives him.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:41
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Mr. Grapes! posted:I don't know if I'm alone in this but I couldn't stand the Shev and Javre stories. They just felt very one note and seemed way too far in the direction of caricatures rather than characters. I didn't really buy them as fitting in the world - they seemed like they wandered in from some other zanier book. Really glad Poochy didn't show up in this one. I'm with you. I liked their stories a little better on a reread but some worked better than others and I really think I'd dislike a whole book of them like some people want.
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Sep 22, 2021 18:45
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The wizards are going to be surprised by how far technology has come along I think. Otoh there's that Dragon Engine so maybe not. Does anyone remember if Yoru sabotaged the train or was that explosion an actual accident?
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Sep 23, 2021 01:28
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Relevant Tangent posted:The wizards are going to be surprised by how far technology has come along I think. Otoh there's that Dragon Engine so maybe not. Does anyone remember if Yoru sabotaged the train or was that explosion an actual accident? The Breakers did that if I recall correctly, Yoru was there to make sure the bank got it's hands into the railroad business. Ended up being good timing to save Orso since Gorst had the day off!
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Sep 23, 2021 01:33
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Is there anything in Sharp Ends about the more magical stuff - especially Euz and his kids?
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Sep 23, 2021 08:23
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I haven't really enjoyed any of the latest trilogy as much as the first one or the standalones. I just don't really like any of the new characters and I don't think the revolution storyline was very well done. I like seeing how the world is doing and the bit and pieces of the older characters we see from time to time, but almost all the new characters range from disinterest to dislike (gently caress Leo, and Broad sucks). I'm glad things didn't go quite as I predicted in some cases, I really thought we were going to end up with a fascist Union under Leo-Hitler out to purge the brown people and the gays, but luckily it seems like Savine has him contained via the constitution and personal insurance via supply chains (and Glockta/Zuri's support). Of course, Leo might still purge her and see if the industrialists really want to be put to the question by sticking to their deals with a now-dead Savine rather than fall in line. The whole North arc seemed pretty pointless. Although while I agree Rikke's plan was very obvious (I started suspecting from the Nail fall out) and Caulder seemed very credulous, I think part of it was because she saw some of the outcome via the Long eye, so basically she was fated to win. Although I'm a bit confused as to if her power works or not - she apparently Saw the Stour execution and enough info to enact her plan, but she has also said/thought several times that her gift no longer works and she has to fake it, but also she gets a new vision at the end of the book. It's a shame Gorst's death was pointless, but at the time he thought he was dying to save his king, so at least he had that going for him. The Rikke/Leo balance of power stuff at the end seemed odd to me - Leo has almost all the Angland army in the capital and doesn't even have a secure grip on the other cities in Midderland, while Rikke has united the North It seems like Rikke should have almost all the cards, at least in the short term, but instead Leo threatens her and she seems worried by it and hands over Orso to avoid trouble. Of course if Leo/the Union can get its poo poo back in order they are ultimately a lot more powerful than the North, but that's going to take a while and isn't certain at this point. If Rikke wanted she could burn Angland to the ground and Leo would have massive problems due to his most powerful and loyal army wanting to leave and protect their homes, which would almost certainly lead to someone else seizing power in Midderland. AND he's horny to rush off and invade Styria again? He should be doing anything he can to mend fences with Rikke. I wonder if Glustrod is going to return and then get absolutely clowned on by cannons? I AM RETURNED *boom - headshot*
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Sep 23, 2021 19:16
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Darkrenown posted:I haven't really enjoyed any of the latest trilogy as much as the first one or the standalones. I just don't really like any of the new characters. Yeah, I think that is the root of my issues with the latest book for sure. Outside of Clover and Orso, I just didn't care about any of the characters. I wouldn't have cared if Yoru and Bayaz swung through and cleared house. In regards to the epilogue, I am really excited about magic and magical figures taking center stage again. Also, maybe Ferro will come thru to visit Savine's eater bodyguards? . Hughmoris fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 20:59
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Darkrenown posted:The whole North arc seemed pretty pointless. Although while I agree Rikke's plan was very obvious (I started suspecting from the Nail fall out) and Caulder seemed very credulous, I think part of it was because she saw some of the outcome via the Long eye, so basically she was fated to win. Although I'm a bit confused as to if her power works or not - she apparently Saw the Stour execution and enough info to enact her plan, but she has also said/thought several times that her gift no longer works and she has to fake it, but also she gets a new vision at the end of the book. Gorst just pretended it was saving the king, he just wanted to die fighting. I think it's plausible that by the time Rikke could've gathered forces, moved across the sea southwards or whatever, the larger Union could've concievably mounted a solid defense against them? Either way, she was interested in peace, and he's unstable and interested in war, so it makes sense that she wants to stay on his good side even if she has an advantage. Neurosis posted:Is there anything in Sharp Ends about the more magical stuff - especially Euz and his kids?
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Sep 23, 2021 21:34
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Hughmoris posted:Yeah, I think that is the root of my issues with the latest book for sure. Outside of Clover and Orso, I just didn't care about any of the characters. I wouldn't have cared if Yoru and Bayaz swung through and cleared house. They both had their moments, sure. Clover turning on Stour in book 2 was pretty great. VagueRant posted:She says she had no visions between getting her eye tattooed up in book 2 and the vision in the epilogue of book 3. Basically she was bluffing every time she referenced the long eye, and just doing her p basic fakeout. 1. I thought so, but when she's about to kill Stour she thinks something to herself about having seen this moment and how to get there, which sounded like she'd had a vision getting her to this point. If she just meant she planned it out it seems pretty misleading word choice. 3. It's the Union who has to sail there, she can just march down through Angland - I think it takes a few weeks to get to Ostenhorm from Uffrith? Which seems a lot faster than the Midderland situation getting fixed. It just seems odd Rikke wouldn't even mention how undefended Angland is when Leo was being a jerk. Even Finree makes a comment about how all the soldiers are gone when she arrives.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:49
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The characters seem to have picked up the teleportation technology featured in late seasons of Game of Thrones. It wouldn't be so maddening if they didn't bring it up all the time about how it's only been 'X months' or whatever since major events have happened. Armies are raised, equipped, trained and marched all over the place willy nilly over what I previously presumed were extreme distances but now seem like something they crisscross very frequently. I don't really care that much but it seems he really compressed the timeline with how much happens and changes so frequently. Like, they don't even have 'Raven Technology' like GoT so besides whatever nonsense Bayaz has, their fastest letters are traveling via method of Guy On Horse/Boat.
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Sep 24, 2021 03:52
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We don’t know that Orso is dead. We know that “there was a clatter as the trap dropped open” and we know that some dickery exists with the hanging machines. I’m not ruling out that they are dead but it’s not a done deal quite yet either.
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Sep 24, 2021 09:01
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Hoping Orso pulled a Moist Von Lipwig?
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Sep 24, 2021 09:06
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I’m 99% sure that homeboy is not dead because the story is more interesting that way, and it’s both earned and supported in the text. In any case I think the story of the next arc is that Bayaz is old and weak so how do you make sure that his replacement isn’t Bayaz Mk2
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Sep 24, 2021 09:07
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I figured Bayaz had that eternal life stuff locked down since he got the seed he was able to rejuvenate himself once.
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Sep 24, 2021 09:22
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His Divine Shadow posted:I figured Bayaz had that eternal life stuff locked down since he got the seed he was able to rejuvenate himself once. He’s looking old and gray lately tho
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Sep 24, 2021 09:26
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Beefeater1980 posted:We don’t know that Orso is dead. We know that “there was a clatter as the trap dropped open” and we know that some dickery exists with the hanging machines. I’m not ruling out that they are dead but it’s not a done deal quite yet either. Once upon a time in England a woman who was sentenced to hang survived because the rope broke, her defense successfully argued that the sentence had been carried out and she walked. Since then it's specified that the condemned are to be 'hanged by the neck until dead'.
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Sep 24, 2021 10:06
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Beefeater1980 posted:We don’t know that Orso is dead. We know that “there was a clatter as the trap dropped open” and we know that some dickery exists with the hanging machines. I’m not ruling out that they are dead but it’s not a done deal quite yet either. Savine and Leo were both there, and when they're in private afterwards they talk about him being dead. That would be a very cheap fakeout.
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Sep 24, 2021 10:10
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Crespolini posted:Savine and Leo were both there, and when they're in private afterwards they talk about him being dead. That would be a very cheap fakeout. Yeah, he's dead. A fakeout honestly would ruin the book I think.
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Sep 24, 2021 19:30
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If there was going to be a fakeout it would have been in the epilogue tbh. I was half expecting one until that.
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Sep 25, 2021 00:26
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I share the general dismay over Orso. The whole Great Change seemed like a very lazy caricature of a half-remembered French Revolution - the endless show trial scenes are the most tedious parts of the book. Also, despite the return of Jurand & Glaward, this book suffers from a dearth of gayness, so that's points docked. Rikke still rules, despite her Bad Orso Decision. I still powered to the end very quickly and enjoyed most of it, it just didn't meet my (admittedly high) expectations.
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Sep 25, 2021 06:56
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The real French Revolution's Reign of Terror actually was a poo poo-show with endless show trials. About 17 000 people were sentenced to death, 10 000 died in prison or were murdered without a trial. Hell, over 2500 people were executed in Paris alone. And it happened in surprisingly short time, which means on average there were multiple executions daily. The Committee of Public Safety passed an act that basically removed the accused's right to defend themself in court and another act that specified death as the only punishment that judges were allowed to pass out. So if you got denounced, not only were you not allowed to properly defend yourself in court, the judge's only option was either acquittal or death penalty.
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Sep 25, 2021 08:41
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Keep in mind this is like if the French Revolution was planned by monarchists to burn hot, burn fast, then collapse under its own weight. Anyone who could have competently led a revolution was hanged at Valbeck. The thing I'm having a hard time understanding is Glotka's long term plan. He left Savine way too exposed for her or her children's long term safety to have been a concern. Also it seems like he, if anyone, would know what a guilded cage the monarchy is and it's weird that he'd put someone he ostensibly cares about in that position. If the books have shown anything, it's that high ranking Midderland nobility is the sweet spot between being rich and powerful enough to insulate one from consequence and being rich and powerful enough to necessarily be involved with wizardy bullshit. Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Sep 25, 2021 |
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Sep 25, 2021 16:16
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i thought it was more of a riff on the chinese cultural revolution but im not very educated on either one
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Sep 25, 2021 16:18
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Is Leo's family a cadet branch? Presumably someone with a dan Brock name is still king poo poo of the city of Brock.
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Sep 25, 2021 16:35
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Alikchi posted:I share the general dismay over Orso. The whole Great Change seemed like a very lazy caricature of a half-remembered French Revolution THe French Revolution was completely hosed, happened in many a stage and had a lot more insanity than Ambercrombie. Mike Duncan's Revolutions podcast did a good job with the French Revolution over more than 55 episodes starting here: https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/revolutions_podcast/2014/07/index.html The Reign of Terror portion begins at episode 3.33: https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/revolutions_podcast/2015/04/index.html Also I think no more than one of Orso or Leo was gonna live through the trilogy, and it could have made sense either way. And having Orso not be able to fake his way out of things feels better since we already essentially got that with Rikke. ulmont fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Sep 25, 2021 |
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Sep 25, 2021 19:23
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:The thing I'm having a hard time understanding is Glotka's long term plan. He left Savine way too exposed for her or her children's long term safety to have been a concern. Also it seems like he, if anyone, would know what a guilded cage the monarchy is and it's weird that he'd put someone he ostensibly cares about in that position. He left Savine guarded by three eaters, and for all we know he would have taken her into hiding with him if she hadn't started her own revolt. As far as the monarchy being a gilded cage goes, the whole point was to remove Bayaz, and Glotka probably won't live too much longer, so he's giving Savine a chance to be the true ruler.
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Sep 25, 2021 19:37
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Also I'm rereading the first trilogy and them making Darth Vader sit through a stage production of The Phantom Menace is so choice. "How loving dare they."
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Sep 25, 2021 19:38
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Also I'm rereading the first trilogy and them making Darth Vader sit through a stage production of The Phantom Menace is so choice. I like the imagery, but I think casting Bayaz as Vader is way too charitable to him. That reminds me though, we later see the actor who played him heading to the Far country after his career falls off a cliff and no one will cast him anymore. I wonder if it was an entirely natural decline or if V&B put pressure on people not to hire him any more. As we eventually see, he can still act well when given a shot.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:47
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Beefeater1980 posted:I’m 99% sure that homeboy is not dead because the story is more interesting that way, and it’s both earned and supported in the text. Lol bayaz is happy as a clam working away. He's as jovial as he was to logen when logen first showed up. Near the third book he was in much worse shape, he was betting it all on a Hail Mary play that only barely succeeded. He's spent hundreds of years without checking on the union, this poo poo is probably only a blip to him.
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Sep 25, 2021 22:45
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Terror Sweat posted:Lol bayaz is happy as a clam working away. He's as jovial as he was to logen when logen first showed up. Near the third book he was in much worse shape, he was betting it all on a Hail Mary play that only barely succeeded. He's spent hundreds of years without checking on the union, this poo poo is probably only a blip to him. Yeah, my money is on Bayaz and Magic(TM) loving poo poo up next round. Also, to our knowledge, is Ferro still out there running around? Seems like she could be a good foil for Zuri and her brothers.
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Sep 26, 2021 00:18
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Hughmoris posted:Yeah, my money is on Bayaz and Magic(TM) loving poo poo up next round. She almost certainly is
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Sep 26, 2021 03:58
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Sooo I guess we don't know anything more about Jezal's death. People have hypothesised Bayaz, of course, but I don't see why he'd do something destabilising like that. Glokta could have done it, to up the instability and create better conditions for revolution. But he did refer to Jezal and himself trying to do some good, which tends a little against it - albeit Glokta doesn't have tons of scruples and wouldn't be above murdering a decent if weak man to further his own aims. It could just be a natural death. Which I'd actually prefer - not everything bad needs to be the product of treachery.VagueRant posted:It's been a while but pretty sure there isn't. Ah, thanks. I should get around to reading the stories but was curious whether it added anything to what seems to be a big thing coming. Apparently not and for info on this topic we're still limited to some exposition by Bayaz and maybe a couple of other references in the first trilogy. Terror Sweat posted:She almost certainly is We have one probable devil-blood who had remarkable longevity - literal giant Fenris the Feared (contra Stranger Come Knocking who seems to have just been a really really big dude - a tangential point but I remember thinking maybe Stranger was the same kind of thing as Fenris but it seems we now know probably not). So Ferro is not only probably still alive (she'd be old but not decrepit), but possibly still virile. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 07:35
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The last book was good, although far from perfect. Rikke managing to give Black Calder a humiliating defeat while being entirely in control and not a single thing going wrong in her plan was too much of a stretch for me. Especially when it turned out her Long Eye didn't open a single time since Caurib had chained it. The plot twist with pretend mutinies was extremely easy to predict, because of how coy about details was her POV. This made the entire war in the North superficial; it could have happened offscreen, and nothing of value would have been lost. Orso's escape plan made no sense. Sending him to Styria would have been a far better idea than chartering the ship as a distraction, then trying to smuggle him out of the city on a coal barge. It makes his execution simply annoying, rather than a certainty; he could have lived if Savine and Vick didn't half-rear end their plan. I completely get why Rikke sold him out though; there was absolutely nothing to gain by smuggling him to the North and his mere presence could destabilize it before Leo even thought about getting him back. He was hosed as soon as he failed to get out of the city.
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Sep 26, 2021 09:38
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Gantolandon posted:I completely get why Rikke sold him out though; there was absolutely nothing to gain by smuggling him to the North and his mere presence could destabilize it before Leo even thought about getting him back. He was hosed as soon as he failed to get out of the city. That's what Isern said, and Rikke wearily agreed, but...once they get out of Adua, why do they have to keep him at Carleon, exactly? Just send him on his way to Sipani.
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Sep 26, 2021 12:21
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Crespolini posted:That's what Isern said, and Rikke wearily agreed, but...once they get out of Adua, why do they have to keep him at Carleon, exactly? Just send him on his way to Sipani. the question is what kind of relationship would the north then have with the union. remember, orso existing is a direct threat to not only leo's rule but his life as well since in case of a counter-revolution orso would definitely kill him. I doubt Leo would just ignore that.
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Sep 26, 2021 13:23
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Crespolini posted:That's what Isern said, and Rikke wearily agreed, but...once they get out of Adua, why do they have to keep him at Carleon, exactly? Just send him on his way to Sipani. It would have meant smuggling him on a ship and taking him to Uffrith at least, then keeping him there long enough until he manages to get a transport to Styria. Meanwhile, plenty of Named Men would probably want to know why did Rikke decide to anger the government of the Union for a useless pretender and risk another war. Also, Orso's presence so close to the Northern Library would probably mean Bayaz intervening just to nab a useful pawn.
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Sep 26, 2021 17:21
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The way the situation was presented, I guess I don't buy that these problems were insurmountable  Then again, the characters aren't obligated to agree with me either, it's just disappointing to me though.
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Sep 26, 2021 17:30
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The end of the book just felt like it was checking off the boxes one by one. It wasn't a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy, kind of a dud. The only chapter I really liked was clovers last chapter
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Sep 27, 2021 18:40
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The character we need going forward is the hate child of Logan and Ferro, a child born of a demon blood and a spirit-speaker who unfortunately inherits neither but is is still pursued by every thirsty wizard in the circle of the world.
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Sep 27, 2021 23:42
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