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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Anyway, map tax: Europe goes "NA NA NA NA NA NA"
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Sep 23, 2021 09:51
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:It's a legitimate technology with plenty of uses, but over the years, owning the libs has become seemingly equally important of a motivation as electricity. Also a big fan of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and two Yemens on a map supposed to be of the world in 2010.
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Sep 23, 2021 10:02
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:
Now I better understand France's involvement in sub-saharan Africa
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Sep 23, 2021 10:05
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Chikimiki posted:I've never understood the internet's obsession with nuclear power... Sure, coal is crap but why invest billions in a complicated and potentially dangerous technology when you have solar, wind, water and others that are much easier and safer?  Economic Analysis of Various Options of Electricity Generation – Taking into Account Health and Environmental Effects - Starfelt & Wikdah They're all way down at the bottom compared to burning poo poo, but nuclear has the slight edge on wind and hydro at the downside of being more expensive, and the alternative during low wind low sun days is either massive storage or (as the UK is doing right now because of a series of fuckups) turning the coal back on, which is orders of magnitude more environmentally and occupationally harmful.
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Sep 23, 2021 10:29
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New balkanization map just dropped.
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Sep 23, 2021 10:52
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Platystemon posted:We’ve been doing it right since the eighties. Too bad the "deep geological repository" does not exist in Germany. There is a growing mountain of toxic sludges and waste of varying spiciness accumulating with absolutely no long term storage solution whatsoever. Naturally, after all profit has been extracted the waste is now the public's problem. Specifically, the future public's problem.
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Sep 23, 2021 10:53
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Reveilled posted:Also a big fan of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and two Yemens on a map supposed to be of the world in 2010. I was trying to figure out what that map must have been made for, but it must have been made for an alternate universe. N&S Yemen officially merged on 22 May 1990, but Belarus wasn't independent until August 25 1991, and Tajikistan is still part of the USSR, so pre-Sept 9 1991. Even if they're using other dates, Belarus didn't declare independence until 27 July 1990, so there's still a 3 month gap between after Yemen fully merged and before Belarus declared independence. Best as I could tell it's from late August 1991 + someone forgot about Yemen. Although with a map so grossly out of date it makes me skeptical that the rest of their data is accurate. It's also a rare world map that has New Zealand but has almost entirely purged Australia.
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Sep 23, 2021 10:58
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:It's a legitimate technology with plenty of uses, but over the years, owning the libs has become seemingly equally important of a motivation as electricity. Is Uzbekistan tapped out? They used to have a massive mine. e: Nevermind there it is
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Sep 23, 2021 11:12
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"The background world map is adapted from a clipart (c) Corel Corp. 1997. It may neither be saved nor downloaded and is only to be used for viewing purposes. The borders are shown for orientation purposes only and are somewhat outdated." It's one guy, and this is the best map he could find in 1997 (and has been using it since) Check out the straight-from-1995 website, it's very charming. https://www.wise-uranium.org
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Sep 23, 2021 11:27
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Antigravitas posted:Too bad the "deep geological repository" does not exist in Germany. That's your government's fault, not a flaw in nuclear power generation.
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Sep 23, 2021 11:43
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That's your government's fault, not a flaw in nuclear power generation. "Nuclear power would work, but only if you kept all the people in charge from meddling with it, forever" isn't a sell, it's exactly the problem with nuclear power steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 11:44
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steinrokkan posted:"Nuclear power would work, but only if you kept all the people in charge from meddling with it, forever" isn't a sell, it's exactly the problem with nuclear power It is the problem with any power.
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Sep 23, 2021 11:47
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Chikimiki posted:I've never understood the internet's obsession with nuclear power... Sure, coal is crap but why invest billions in a complicated and potentially dangerous technology when you have solar, wind, water and others that are much easier and safer? It's because so much of the opposition to it seems to be irrational and based on a poor understanding of statistics/a pop culture view of radioactivity. Of course Internet guys love it when they get to go 'actually...' If there actually are better alternatives nowadays, I'm all for phasing out nuclear power plants, just not to replace them with coal plants or something else that is much worse
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Sep 23, 2021 11:56
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I think I saw somewhere being said that nuclear and renewables should work hand in hand to phase out fossil fuels, and then as renewables become more and more efficient, nuclear would be phased out. Because nuclear accidents tend to make the area they happen in uninhabitable by humans, while thermal plants make the whole world uninhabitable by humans when working as designed.
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Sep 23, 2021 12:18
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That's your government's fault, not a flaw in nuclear power generation. They might be dinosaurs, but they are hardly responsible for the geological makeup of central Europe. And it seems not to be an exclusive German problem, as only 19 of the 41 countries using nuclear energy have found a long-term storage for low- and medium-radioactive waste.
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Sep 23, 2021 12:31
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Chikimiki posted:I've never understood the internet's obsession with nuclear power... Sure, coal is crap but why invest billions in a complicated and potentially dangerous technology when you have solar, wind, water and others that are much easier and safer? Because most renewables have intermittence and short term scalability problems. Solar makes as much energy as it's going to make, regardless of demand. Wind makes as much energy as it's going to make, regardless of demand. Tidal makes as much energy as it's going to make, regardless of demand. All three are variable on a daily, weekly, monthly and annual basis. Solar and wind have significant unpredictability on top of that more predictable variability. The vagaries of this supply do not match up with the vagaries of demand. Other renewable sources of power like hydro-electric or geothermal are far more predictable, and often more instantaneously scalable, but they also rely on specific geological conditions which are not available everywhere. Until battery tech makes several generational leaps there is simply no way to manage even the smartest of smart power grids using renewable energy alone.
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Sep 23, 2021 13:27
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Also hydro is terrible for the riverine environment, and if you compare the deadliest single hydro disasters to the deadliest single nuclear disasters it doesn't look too good either.
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Sep 23, 2021 13:44
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That's your government's fault, not a flaw in nuclear power generation. I have no idea how to interpret this other than that Germany's geological makeup is the government's fault, which…yeah, I guess. Which direction should Germany expand to acquire land that has geological formations that are stable long-term and don't immediately start flooding or deforming? Phlegmish posted:If there actually are better alternatives nowadays, I'm all for phasing out nuclear power plants, just not to replace them with coal plants or something else that is much worse There's potential for 2900 TWh/a of wind on shore alone, already excluding all areas around settlements, forests and so on. Total production (all sources) hovers around 600 to 650 TWh/a. The thing is, it needs to actually be done. But doing things is unpopular because it means more transit needs to be built to connect grids with stronger links to move power where it is needed. Especially North/South links to Norwegian and Swedish hydro (Germany has some, but not much), and southern solar. They are needed because wind is intermittent. And lots of NIMBYs don't want any kind of electricity generation or transit (see Bavaria, they don't want wind, nuclear, hydro, coal, nuclear storage). Map of on shore wind speed average at 80m:  Off shore potential is gigantic and mostly untapped: 
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Sep 23, 2021 13:59
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Antigravitas posted:There's potential for 2900 TWh/a of wind on shore alone, already excluding all areas around settlements, forests and so on. Total energy production is also a red herring until you've found some way storing it. If you decided to just not give a gently caress about the local environment, I suppose you could make gravity storage powered by excess solar, pumping Spanish valleys full of desalinated ocean water moving between a low and a high reservoir depending on demand, which is probably the most technologically feasible storage solution. Alternatively, using excess solar power to heat up great underground heat storage reservoirs, the energy from which can then be extracted at a significant loss with a geothermal plant.
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Sep 23, 2021 15:15
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Load all your low and medium radiological waste into lead lined train cars and winch them up hills for gravity storage.
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Sep 23, 2021 16:50
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Antigravitas posted:Too bad the "deep geological repository" does not exist in Germany. There is a growing mountain of toxic sludges and waste of varying spiciness accumulating with absolutely no long term storage solution whatsoever. Naturally, after all profit has been extracted the waste is now the public's problem. Specifically, the future public's problem. I thought Germany's long-term plan was just to forever sponge off of French nuclear power.
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Sep 23, 2021 17:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:I thought Germany's long-term plan was just to forever sponge off of French nuclear power. Hasn't their coal usage also gone up massively since they began phasing out nuclear? It all just seems incredibly short sighted. Their Greens shout NUCLEAR BAD and start closing power plants, but with absolutely nothing lined up to replace them. So pollution levels actually just increase when coal/gas is used to pick up the slack. In an ideal world like sure, everything would be renewable. But that doesn't give the baseline reliable power thats needed still, so with no nuclear it just goes back to gas/coal. For the foreseeable future a mixture of nuclear and renewable seems the only real world option to provide reliability+capacity+minimum pollution.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:27
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Blut posted:Hasn't their coal usage also gone up massively since they began phasing out nuclear? Germany’s entire energy policy is completely insane and just shoveling money to Russia while tut tutting about killing EU citizens in EU soil but not too hard
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Sep 23, 2021 18:44
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Guavanaut posted:Load all your low and medium radiological waste into lead lined train cars and winch them up hills for gravity storage. The African one seems weird to me.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:49
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Guavanaut posted:Load all your low and medium radiological waste into lead lined train cars and winch them up hills for gravity storage. The Pole finds it trivial to kill multiple animals with a single blow, mysteriously is unable to cook them but sequentially? Numerical Anxiety fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 18:49
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3D Megadoodoo posted:The African one seems weird to me. As they say, "many maps on one site"
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Sep 23, 2021 19:09
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Germany’s entire energy policy is completely insane and just shoveling money to Russia while tut tutting about killing EU citizens in EU soil but not too hard Germany is really bad about understanding the global consequences of their own policies. It's why their position during the European debt crisis boiled down to "You all wouldn't be in debt if you were all net export economies like us."
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Sep 23, 2021 19:13
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Brawnfire posted:"Many maps on one site." - Via Getty
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Sep 23, 2021 19:36
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Blut posted:Hasn't their coal usage also gone up massively since they began phasing out nuclear?  Pictured: Massive increase of coal usage. Blut posted:It all just seems incredibly short sighted. Their Greens shout NUCLEAR BAD and start closing power plants, They set a future date for nuclear shutdown when they were the junior partner in a coalition government around the turn of the millennium with an exit about 20 years later. Blut posted:but with absolutely nothing lined up to replace them. So pollution levels actually just increase when coal/gas is used to pick up the slack. They did, in fact, have a plan. However, you may have noticed that for the past 16 years Merkel has been the chancellor, and there has never been a green chancellor. Merkel is a conservative, the greens haven't been in government for 16 years. Blut posted:In an ideal world like sure, everything would be renewable. But that doesn't give the baseline reliable power thats needed still, so with no nuclear it just goes back to gas/coal. "Baseline" doesn't exist beyond the nuclear and fossil lobbies. You can actually look at demand curves, they fluctuate a lot, which nuclear can not service. What happens instead is that nuclear plants are subsidised to run even when energy prices are low, and renewables have to shut down to not overload the grid. This is done to insulate the private companies running those plants from market effects at the cost of the public. Blut posted:For the foreseeable future a mixture of nuclear and renewable seems the only real world option to provide reliability+capacity+minimum pollution. No. The only option is to go hard on a massive expansion of transit networks to connect to neighbouring countries and to stop kneecapping wind and solar. Nuclear is not economically viable and takes far too long to build. Even if you allowed new plants, none would be built. SlothfulCobra posted:I thought Germany's long-term plan was just to forever sponge off of French nuclear power. Germany is a transit country, but has an overall export surplus. Which is helpful because France has an enormous electricity deficit when it gets too cold (electrical heating and bad insulation) or too hot. BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Germany’s entire energy policy is completely insane and just shoveling money to Russia while tut tutting about killing EU citizens in EU soil but not too hard Man, yanks are really upset Germany doesn't like being blackmailed to buy more expensive American LNG and disrupt its energy supply, aren't they. Perhaps if the USA was as reliable as Russia, they wouldn't have been rebutted.
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Sep 23, 2021 19:36
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I'm the many americans who know and care about german energy policy.Guavanaut posted:Load all your low and medium radiological waste into lead lined train cars and winch them up hills for gravity storage. What black arts are the italians doing down there?
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Sep 23, 2021 20:13
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:What black arts are the italians doing down there?
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Sep 23, 2021 20:17
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It's not so hard, it's a broad bean
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Sep 23, 2021 20:22
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Antigravitas posted:
Convenient cutoff of almost 3 years ago you've got there. quote:German emissions from electricity generation increased in the first half of 2021 by one-quarter, or 21 million tons, according to German think tank Agora Energiewende. Gas-fired power plants increased 15%, coal power plants by 36%, and hard coal power plants by 44%. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...-not-willpower/ Good thing they shut down all those non polluting nuclear power plants so they can increase the use of coal, probably the most environmentally damaging source of electricity possible, by 44% (!) eh? edit, actually this is worth quoting too, just because it sums up the results of the madness of the German Green's anti nuclear policy perfectly. From the same article: quote:As a result, Germany’s renewables experiment is effectively over. By 2025 it will have spent $580 billion to make its electricity nearly twice as expensive and ten times more carbon-intensive than France’s. Blut fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 20:56
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Antigravitas posted:Man, yanks are really upset Germany doesn't like being blackmailed to buy more expensive American LNG and disrupt its energy supply, aren't they. Perhaps if the USA was as reliable as Russia, they wouldn't have been rebutted. Russia can poison a few Czechs and down and hijack a few civilian aircraft without meaningful consequence as a treat BIG FLUFFY DOG fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 21:10
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Entschuldigung, ist hier der deutsche energie Lobbysten thread?
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Sep 23, 2021 21:12
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Wind turbines look cool as gently caress and they could build one near me any time I am an IMBY
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Sep 23, 2021 21:41
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Antigravitas posted:Nuclear is not economically viable and takes far too long to build. Even if you allowed new plants, none would be built. I think this is a core issue that frequently gets overlooked. Plus that Europe currently doesn't have any experience in building modern-day nuclear power plants, it either has to train a new generation of nuclear engineers to do so or insource experienced engineers from China. The former takes too much time for nuclear to become a viable alternative even in a basket of renewables to push back coal, the latter would leave European power plants dependent on Chinese expertise and service contracts. Considering Russia already loves lording over its gas pipelines to try to bully Europe, China in that role would be much worse because they are also a net exporter of many goods European consumers like.
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Sep 23, 2021 21:58
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Pope Hilarius II posted:Europe currently doesn't have any experience in building modern-day nuclear power plants Not true, Framatome has 15 years of experience building NPPs in Olkiluoto and Flamanville. Experience in completing them, not so much.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:20
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Not true, Framatome has 15 years of experience building NPPs in Olkiluoto and Flamanville
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Sep 23, 2021 22:26
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Phlegmish posted:Wind turbines look cool as gently caress and they could build one near me any time When I lived in Ontario, I was across from an island with a nimby windmill campaign to save the birds. These people also refused a helipad or a bridge, so despite a hospital being literally on the waterfront on the mainland, if you had a heart attack you had to be evacuated by a loving boat.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:58
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