|
Godholio posted:Put the Marines under the Space Force. Space force are in space. EVERYONE is under them.
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 14:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:00 |
|
|
Since some US states have an Air National Guard, does that mean they can have a Space National Guard? Thus creating Guardsmen Guardians Edit: and maybe some of those states would also have Coast Guard stations to add to the fun
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 14:52
|
|
|
Crab Dad posted:Not to beat a dead German artillery horse but wasn’t our army era 1991 still under Stormin’ Norman? Yeah. He'd be perfect for this though, the sort of tactically competent but unimaginative US army type is perfectly fine when your enemy doesn't have night vision, competent logistics, comms, just learned babby's first maneuver warfare and has a 50 year gap in armor and small arms technology.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 14:53
|
|
|
Jimmy Smuts posted:Since some US states have an Air National Guard, does that mean they can have a Space National Guard? Thus creating Guardsmen Guardians Space Coast Guard! Space Guardians From Coast to Coast
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 14:54
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Space force are in space. EVERYONE is under them. Not under. Inwards.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Yeah. He'd be perfect for this though, the sort of tactically competent but unimaginative US army type is perfectly fine when your enemy doesn't have night vision, competent logistics, comms, just learned babby's first maneuver warfare and has a 50 year gap in armor and small arms technology. Seriously even the useless air arm carries over as a comparison. Dude was smoking the ubermanmyth crack to not see the parallels between Iraq and Germany.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 15:28
|
|
|
My experience is with 'historical' tanks based video game communities, but there's a sort of person who believes without question that Krupp armor is a metallurgical miracle superior to contemporary armor and is capable of defeating contemporary anti tank munitions, and that the 8.8cm guns the Germans had are capable of penetrating any armor, or more generally that German wunderwaffles would have been on equal footing with contemporary technology if only they had had a chance to be fleshed out. Don't know if they're legitimate Nazis or just watched too much history channel
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:08
|
|
|
EvenWorseOpinions posted:My experience is with 'historical' tanks based video game communities, but there's a sort of person who believes without question that Krupp armor is a metallurgical miracle superior to contemporary armor and is capable of defeating contemporary anti tank munitions, and that the 8.8cm guns the Germans had are capable of penetrating any armor, or more generally that German wunderwaffles would have been on equal footing with contemporary technology if only they had had a chance to be fleshed out. I have to wonder what with their Lost Cause of the Wehrmacht turn however long ago that happened whether the History Channel has become a Nazi recruitment program.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Obviously, its all Russian bias.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:15
|
|
|
Crab Dad posted:Seriously even the useless air arm carries over as a comparison. Dude was smoking the ubermanmyth crack to not see the parallels between Iraq and Germany. Guy in question got found out later to be a nazi I think, which explains his insistence on things that 1940's flak guns could hit a F-117 (yes, he says that), that a German infantry squad with panzerfausts would be roughly equal to 90's infantry with MANPADs and modern anti-tank and him just being a total loving moron in general. I think he also theorized how the Me 262 could totally dogfight an F-15 too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:18
|
|
|
Godholio posted:They intercepted the jet within literal minutes, and had the situation warranted, were capable of shooting it down. I'm not sure what you mean. Going by what Wikipedia lists as the timeline, he took off at 1932 local time, but the Eagles weren't scrambled until 2015, almost 45 minutes later. What I mean is that if he wanted to do something terrible in that timeframe, he probably could've. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:21
|
|
|
You see if the planes are too slow modern fighters and missiles can't hit them
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
I love that argument (it also came up in a A/T military history thread).Even with the 'ancient' tech of 91, the Germans have no chance. Not a single weapon they have can penetrate the front plate of an Abrams, except at Bad Breath range- which they would never get into, because optics and close air support aircraft. BN of Panzers? A company of gunships with TOWs could stand off out of range, and pick you apart. Never mind the B52s that we could change geography with, or the fact that even the shittiest 90s NV was ages superior to the crappy NV Germany had- all six sets. It's not like Saddam LITERALLY USED THIS BATTLE PLAN. Use WW2 Tactics to hold, then tactically withdrawal to areas where terrain gives you the advantage of close in insurgent warfare. Of all the dumb history sperg debates, this one is pretty high up there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
It is a lot of fun to fantasize about clowning waffen-SS tanks with hellfire missiles and carl gustafs while they're stumbling around the darkness blind.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
Wehraboos gonna wehraboo. These are the same people who think poo poo like the Maus and Ratte would've been war-winning weapons and not fodder for Allied air forces. Or that having two super Battleships bigger than the Bismarck and Tirpitz would've given the Nazis unquestionable control over the Atlantic because ~reasons~. SMEGMA_MAIL posted:It is a lot of fun to fantasize about clowning waffen-SS tanks with hellfire missiles and carl gustafs while they're stumbling around the darkness blind. BUT THE GERMANS WERE THE FIRST TO MAKE NIGHT VISION SEE I CAN FIND A PICTURE OF A (prototype) PANTHER WITH A NIGHT SCOPE ON IT 
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Sep 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 16:53
|
|
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Guy in question got found out later to be a nazi I think, which explains his insistence on things that 1940's flak guns could hit a F-117 (yes, he says that), that a German infantry squad with panzerfausts would be roughly equal to 90's infantry with MANPADs and modern anti-tank and him just being a total loving moron in general. The physics of a me 262 shooting down an F-15 are really funny. The muzzle velocity of the 30mm guns are 540m/s or 1207 mph. If the 262 was directly behind the F-15 you'd need to use calc to figure out how close you need to be due to the f-15 moving away and the shells losing velocity.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:It's been so long since I've read this but if you haven't seen this thread where a guy tries to argue that the 1944 Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS could have beaten the 1991 US military. oh my god thank you so much for this, an absolutely incredible read. Towards the end they start thinking about the moral effect of telling 1991 US Troops that they get to kill Nazis. I honestly think I would re-enlist if it meant I got to kill Nazis.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
BIG HEADLINE posted:Going by what Wikipedia lists as the timeline, he took off at 1932 local time, but the Eagles weren't scrambled until 2015, almost 45 minutes later. I think you just have a very unrealistic expectation. Jets are loving complicated, it takes time. The alternative is to go back to armed overhead patrols over the entirety of the nation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 17:33
|
|
|
I was blessed to get into a days spanning conversation on a tanks game discord about whether an ME-262 could dogfight an A-10. It's a stupid hypothetical in both its premise, and the argument that a 262-U whatever with like a 50mm gun could 'one shot' an A-10 (ignoring the maneuvers needed to make that happen). The blessed part comes from me being at an air show at the time, at which the A-10 demo team was performing, catching them at a gas station on the way in to the show, and asking them to weigh in. "So I have a very stupid hypothetical you might find amusing..." EvenWorseOpinions fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Sep 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 17:55
|
|
|
A battalion of loving Brads could kill off a WW2 German army. Up until the civil war, the rule was that the army of a previous generation could keep up with an army of the current generation. Napoleon's army could hold their own against Grant, Alexander could hold his own against Caesar, etc. This changes immediately post civil war due to the industrial revolution and changes in tactics. The US Army of WW1 would obliterate Grant's army, Ike's army obliterates Perishing's army, etc. The US Army of 1991 vaporizes the Wehrmacht before Ze Germans are within visual range. Probably don't lose a man on the US side.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
EvenWorseOpinions posted:I was blessed to get into a days spanning conversation on a tanks game discord about whether an ME-262 could dogfight an A-10. It's a stupid hypothetical in both its premise, and the argument that a 262-U whatever with like a 50mm gun could 'one shot' an A-10 (ignoring the maneuvers needed to make that happen).  What did they say?
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
MA-Horus posted:Probably don't lose a man on the US side. I dunno some ammo troop might have a sidewinder fall on them or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 19:18
|
|
|
A battalion of tanks holding the line would get a half-hearted shrug before missiles come over the horizon from launch sites/vehicles that no form of existing technology of the time could even locate, much less stop. The only threat infantry formations equipped with infinite everything of the time would present is possible PTSD to the AC-130 crews that would be mowing them down by the bushel. God drat is that dude a perfect candidate for this thread.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 19:20
|
|
|
BIG HEADLINE posted:Wehraboos gonna wehraboo. Possibly if they’d put the resources they used to built the big battleships towards building more submarines, they might have been able to choke Britain in the early years and negotiate a peace. It got close. But once the US joins the show, lol no they don’t have a chance. They were making GBS threads out liberty ships faster than the German could make torpedoes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 19:42
|
|
|
There were a bunch of German tanks used by Syria in the '67 war, including some jadgpanzer IVs. On the Israeli side some of their Shermans had been retrofitted with French 75mm guns that were based on the German 75mm from the panthers. The antique German equipment did not fair very well even back then. https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/panzers-in-the-golan-heights/
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
FrozenVent posted:Possibly if they’d put the resources they used to built the big battleships towards building more submarines, they might have been able to choke Britain in the early years and negotiate a peace. It got close. I read an analysis on this year's ago and it made a convincing argument that they still would have come up short, and it might not have mattered a ton depending on when they switched to all subs. Basically it came down to they also would have had to build all the supporting infrastructure for the additional subs at the same time, and even going crazy with type VIIs in like 37 or 38 or so they still would have only had a handful of boats on station in the early years of the war, better than the 2 they had on patrol at one point in early 1940 but still not the 1942 or 43 levels of subs earlier enough to matter. The other side of this is that the British would be able to see the Germans abandoning the surface fleet and would be able to throw everything at more destroyers and anti-sub defenses at the same time. It probably makes things worse for the British but doesn't cause them to sue for peace. Additionally without the surface fleet they don't invade Norway and we can assume the British and French would occupy it as they were doing when the Germans invaded in the first place, which causes all sorts of problems for them keeping the shipping lanes to Sweden open.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:16
|
|
|
bird food bathtub posted:
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:22
|
|
|
winnydpu posted:There were a bunch of German tanks used by Syria in the '67 war, including some jadgpanzer IVs. On the Israeli side some of their Shermans had been retrofitted with French 75mm guns that were based on the German 75mm from the panthers. The antique German equipment did not fair very well even back then. They eventually made it better, but early Panthers had a transmission overhaul period of 200km. The turret couldn't hold the gun forward if the tank was on a slope. The French had the option to acquire a bunch of free lightly used German armor after the war to use until they could rebuild their own armored corps and after some trial runs they decided to dump the German tanks in favor of pretty much anything else. ~Juhrman engineering~ SavageMessiah posted:
Wasn't super exciting, basically 'lol this plane had like 30 years of technological developments over the 262 when it was new, and it's been iterated on since'. I considered seeing if they'd let me record them giving an answer so I could super duper well and truly fully own some nerds on the internet and I reconsidered.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:23
|
|
|
Some dipshit I was in NJROTC with is apparently one of these guys now, maybe he was then too but I don’t remember. At the time it was mostly about him being an annoying Trekkie, and overly religious. The latter came into play towards the end of high school for him when he prayed, and god told him not to join the USMC. Dumb as that sounds if you’re hearing voices you really should not be in the military. So it all worked out. So he doesn’t join the military, goes to community college to be a cop, and works a bunch of restaurant jobs I guess. Then the sheriff’s department hires him to be a corrections officer, and my dad gets to experience this guy. According to dad he wasn’t usually that bad because he wasn’t a jerk or a wannabe tough guy that thought he could go around picking fights with inmates. But he was pretty far out there sometimes. He’d corner people and jabber about tank tactics, took up collecting Nazi guns, and would spread his dumb Clean Wehrmacht opinions. After a few years he couldn’t handle it anymore so he’s a mailman now. I heard the more recent stories after telling dad about that idiot who posted the classified manual because he was mad about tank games.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:35
|
|
|
EvenWorseOpinions posted:My experience is with 'historical' tanks based video game communities, but there's a sort of person who believes without question that Krupp armor is a metallurgical miracle superior to contemporary armor 20th century Deutsche-rear end-kiss steel
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:40
|
|
|
FrozenVent posted:Possibly if they’d put the resources they used to built the big battleships towards building more submarines, they might have been able to choke Britain in the early years and negotiate a peace. It got close. I think the Germans wildly underestimated British unwillingness to accept a peace. The UK spent a good chunk of the war thinking that they were effectively alone in the world against all of Europe with an apathetic US and Soviet Union. And despite a lot of suffering there was basically no serious consideration of ever making terms with the Germans. Given at that point how hated the Germans were by the British and how committed they were to giving them the middle finger across the channel I don’t think a more effective uboat campaign would have actually done much besides just pissed off then brits more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
winnydpu posted:There were a bunch of German tanks used by Syria in the '67 war, including some jadgpanzer IVs. On the Israeli side some of their Shermans had been retrofitted with French 75mm guns that were based on the German 75mm from the panthers. The antique German equipment did not fair very well even back then. So funny story. The Littlefield tank collection had a Pzer4 in the collection they bought from the Israeli government in the 90s. It had been captured from the Syrians during the last conflict. It took an AT round to the rear engine compartment and was knocked out of action without brewing up. Fairly small hole and otherwise in excellent shape from the pictures. He had it shipped over and two things were obvious when it arrived. The Israelis didn’t bother to cut the breach on the _any_ of the guns on or for the crew. Also they didn’t bother to remove the bodies that were now just bones and cloth scrapes. They found IDs and shipped the remains back.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 20:54
|
|
|
Excuse me, but in the lauded and *completely historically accurate* game World of Tanks, my Superior Kruppstahl bounces shells from tanks that were developed 20+ years after the end of the war!  And I should know, I was an M60 commander in Vietnam so I know everything there is to know about tanks!  (no poo poo, there seriously was a guy on the community forums that said something to this effect, and how it also meant he was 'owed' an M60, which at the time was solely a clan wars campaign reward)
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 21:00
|
|
|
Real weird the not a Nazi kept calling the Wehrmacht the "heer" in his posts but couldn't think of "tzahal" or "SV" when talking about the Israelis or Russians. Strange.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
God the era of tank locking which neant t54s were back on the menu to replace locked t62s and obj 140s and 430s. Russian tracks never got worse on any terrain. Fun times
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
quote:How long will it take to capture Baghdad? 2 days
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 22:01
|
|
|
No battle plan survives first review by the lobbyists. I do find the hideously revisionist history concerning the lack of Germany's nerve agents sickening, though. They didn't use them out of any sense of nobility or because Hitler hated CW, they knew they'd be blanketed in anthrax, HD, and hydrogen cyanide. By the time the Allies were in Germany proper, they'd have ganked their own people using them defensively. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Sep 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
MA-Horus posted:A battalion of loving Brads could kill off a WW2 German army. Hell, it was proposed to arm soldiers with longbows as late as the revolutionary war. Also, aircraft from 1991 had a much higher operating altitude than even an ME 262, not to mention added things like RADAR and satellite reconnaissance... We could probably get berlin in a week with our post Vietnam military, no need for stealth super planes. The wehrmacht wasn't even fully mechanized. It's such a dumb argument to even consider, we got so much better at killing each other efficiently and creatively during the cold war.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 22:21
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:00 |
|
|
Feels like the ability of an M1 to fire accurately at several hundred meters while moving would mean it could functionally be unarmored and just move semi-erratically and plink any number of ww2 tanks to death that’s fewer than its rounds carried.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2021 22:57
|
|