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Do you guys measure rainwater in acre-feet? You never heard of megalitres? Actually I think that's a really good unit because whenever I think about agricultural water use I have to convert from megalitres to rain cm x km^2
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Sep 22, 2021 03:09
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personally almonds affect my foothill rear end because downstream demands can change the amount of water the local districts keep in their reservoirs. it hasn't happened yet but theoretically you could see them getting emptied out because the elected assholes on the board decided to sell 'excess' off. there's not a ton of ground water in the sierras, it's largely all rain accumulation and there's been garbage snow packs (some years, not any) so it could get rough if some guy waves his almond money check around to buy out Union Valley or something.
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Sep 22, 2021 04:52
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The Artificial Kid posted:Do you guys measure rainwater in acre-feet? You never heard of megalitres? Acre-feet is the standard here because historically it's about the amount of water used by a family in a year. Pretty sure the average Californian home uses less these days though.
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Sep 22, 2021 05:08
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Rainbow Knight posted:kind of surprised that alfalfa takes up so much water since the big grocery chain i work for and others in UFCW have stopped carrying alfalfa in any form because of its susceptibility to e.coli and such. where is it all going? To China
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Sep 22, 2021 08:03
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Cup Runneth Over posted:To China China is the primary export partner for alfalfa, but it's actually the EU and India these days that are buying up all of our almond harvest. China used to be a much larger player in that space but they slapped huge tariffs on them in response to Trump's trade war a couple years ago and have mostly shifted their importing to other countries. One wonders how long California can keep going as one of the world's major breadbaskets. Pasture, alfalfa, almonds, rice, etc are grown in abundance here but at some point if current climate trends continue there's just not gonna be enough water for that.
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Sep 22, 2021 08:22
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Sydin posted:China is the primary export partner for alfalfa, but it's actually the EU and India these days that are buying up all of our almond harvest. China used to be a much larger player in that space but they slapped huge tariffs on them in response to Trump's trade war a couple years ago and have mostly shifted their importing to other countries. According to some climate scientists, 18 years, tops.
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Sep 22, 2021 08:30
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Sydin posted:China is the primary export partner for alfalfa, but it's actually the EU and India these days that are buying up all of our almond harvest. China used to be a much larger player in that space but they slapped huge tariffs on them in response to Trump's trade war a couple years ago and have mostly shifted their importing to other countries. We already don't have enough water for it. We're drawing so much faster than the aquifers replenish. Soon the entire central valley will be sinking yearly as empty aquafers collapse in on themselves.
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Sep 22, 2021 15:55
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CompeAnansi posted:We already don't have enough water for it. We're drawing so much faster than the aquifers replenish. Soon the entire central valley will be sinking yearly as empty aquafers collapse in on themselves. Who's this we? I ain't drawing poo poo.
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Sep 22, 2021 16:46
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I for one can't wait till I can go free diving for lost treasures in the new Gulf of Stockton once the sea levels rise. Y'all better watch out for the hillbillies. I'm gonna get a canoe and paddle over all the rapids where unmaintained dams used to be, all painted up with blackberry warpaint. At the rate this state feels like it's falling apart, that's probably 2024.
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Sep 22, 2021 17:15
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Centrist Committee posted:Who's this we? I ain't drawing poo poo. Also, what's this "soon"? Edit: P.S., Make Tulare Lake Blue Again
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Sep 22, 2021 17:22
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Centrist Committee posted:Who's this we? The Resnicks and Nestle.
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Sep 22, 2021 17:36
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Larry Parrish posted:I for one can't wait till I can go free diving for lost treasures in the new Gulf of Stockton once the sea levels rise. Y'all better watch out for the hillbillies. I'm gonna get a canoe and paddle over all the rapids where unmaintained dams used to be, all painted up with blackberry warpaint. At the rate this state feels like it's falling apart, that's probably 2024. i once helped work on a feasibility study for sea level rise mitigation on the coast between santa cruz and monterey the idea was to see how expensive it would be to elevate portions of highway 1 and put a rail line already running east of there up on a longass trestle, as part of a larger proposal the flooding we were looking at for that area was 50+ years into the future, when such measures would start becoming necessary you've got plenty of time before they need to start worrying about damming off the central valley from the ocean, probably not even during your lifetime though ofc we could always get another megastorm rainfall event like what flooded sacramento last time
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Sep 22, 2021 19:09
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:though ofc we could always get another megastorm rainfall event like what flooded sacramento last time lmao its never raining here again the upcoming rainy season has already been written off due to el nina
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Sep 22, 2021 19:26
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Alfalfa sprouts are delicious in sandwiches with a bit of mayo. Didn't realize how much water they suck up though.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:30
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Vegetable posted:Alfalfa sprouts are delicious in sandwiches with a bit of mayo. Didn't realize how much water they suck up though. You are individually and personally responsible for burning down half the state, sinner!!!
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Sep 22, 2021 21:22
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Vegetable posted:Alfalfa sprouts are delicious in sandwiches with a bit of mayo. Didn't realize how much water they suck up though. Are the sprouts a problem? I have a 5-tier home grow tray setup about 30cm in diameter that needs all of like a cup of water/day for 4 days to make a ton of sprouts. It's not like growing a mature plant for feed.
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Sep 22, 2021 21:30
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Tayter Swift posted:lmao its never raining here again long-term, climate change is supposed to make california's annual rainfall actually increase but shrink the rainy season by about a month, making a 2 month concentrated winter flood time followed by a nice 10 month long drought and fire season.
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Sep 22, 2021 22:02
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I don't think alfalfa is particularly high water usage on a per-yield basis. It's high on the list of total water usage because there's a whole lot of it grown to feed cows. It's inefficient since it's plant->cow food->human food, but that's common to all silage crops. Eating sprouts directly as human food isn't water intensive. Farms will water alfalfa heavier per acre than other things, but that's because it's deep rooted and can use that water to increase yield/land (it's actually fairly drought tolerant, it just stops growing when it's dry)
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Sep 22, 2021 22:18
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Centrist Committee posted:Who's this we? I ain't drawing poo poo. Check out this as an example of how widespread the problem is becoming. It's not just Nestle and Wonderful, it's happening throughout the agricultural system: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/well-fixers-story-california-drought/619753/ EDIT: If you are paywalled by the Atlantic, you can read the article here: https://outline.com/NbZBt4 CompeAnansi fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 22:50
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CompeAnansi posted:Check out this as an example of how widespread the problem is becoming. It's not just Nestle and Wonderful, it's happening throughout the agricultural system: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/well-fixers-story-california-drought/619753/ I get it, the point is I am not a billionaire, nor am I capitalist, and I don't appreciate being rhetorically included in some performative flagellation, indicting all of humanity, just because liberals are morons who can't see class.
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Sep 23, 2021 01:12
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Foxfire_ posted:I don't think alfalfa is particularly high water usage on a per-yield basis. It's high on the list of total water usage because there's a whole lot of it grown to feed cows. It's inefficient since it's plant->cow food->human food, but that's common to all silage crops. Eating sprouts directly as human food isn't water intensive. Farms will water alfalfa heavier per acre than other things, but that's because it's deep rooted and can use that water to increase yield/land (it's actually fairly drought tolerant, it just stops growing when it's dry) i know a few people with old rear end farms that shut down forever ago and their grandparents or whatever just planted alfalfa and watered it for a season or two just for the erosion control, since you can't really just leave an empty field totally empty like that without eroding all the topsoil. it's less windy in the foothills, but not by much.
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Sep 23, 2021 02:10
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Foxfire_ posted:I don't think alfalfa is particularly high water usage on a per-yield basis. It's high on the list of total water usage because there's a whole lot of it grown to feed cows. It's inefficient since it's plant->cow food->human food, but that's common to all silage crops. Eating sprouts directly as human food isn't water intensive. Farms will water alfalfa heavier per acre than other things, but that's because it's deep rooted and can use that water to increase yield/land (it's actually fairly drought tolerant, it just stops growing when it's dry) The problem with alfalfa is there's no reason to grow it in California. It can grow basically anywhere that's not a desert. So why use our precious water to grow it when the south gets 50" of rain every year? Almond trees on the other hand are very sensitive to frost and need tons of sunshine, but they are also sensitive to root rot so they can't get too much rain. They basically can only grow in Mediterranean climates and most of the actual Mediterranean grows other crops. Because of that California produces the majority of world's almonds. Due to their limited supply and the huge demand for almond products, they are an extremely valuable crop. There is no way that half measures like increasing water costs or adding a luxury tax will stop farmers from growing almonds. They will simply raise the price and pass the cost on to consumers. There needs to be a hard limit to the number of acres planted in a given area to ensure that water supply is conserved.
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Sep 23, 2021 13:53
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fermun posted:long-term, climate change is supposed to make california's annual rainfall actually increase but shrink the rainy season by about a month, making a 2 month concentrated winter flood time followed by a nice 10 month long drought and fire season. Do you / others have a source that covers this for other regions as well? I've been thinking for a while now that it would be nice to have a state-by-state breakdown of projected climate change effects that actually tries to get specific, while still being readable to not-a-climate-scientist.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:41
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That article addressed exactly that. Things like drip irrigation were supposed to conserve water, but instead it let them grow almonds in new areas, so they use even more water now.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:42
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Centrist Committee posted:I get it, the point is I am not a billionaire, nor am I capitalist, and I don't appreciate being rhetorically included in some performative flagellation, indicting all of humanity, just because liberals are morons who can't see class. Totally agree, actually. I hate that residential use is even a consideration in debates over water use. Residential use is basically irrelevant. The 'we' in the original post was just referring to all the people living in the state, but I agree that most of us shouldn't have been included in that we.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:52
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CompeAnansi posted:Totally agree, actually. I hate that residential use is even a consideration in debates over water use. Residential use is basically irrelevant. The 'we' in the original post was just referring to all the people living in the state, but I agree that most of us shouldn't have been included in that we. Yeah even then "residential use" can be classified into lawn/pool havers those who are righteous in the eyes of God.
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Sep 23, 2021 19:22
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Centrist Committee posted:Yeah even then "residential use" can be classified into lawn/pool havers those who are righteous in the eyes of God. Lawns, sure, but pools are typically a closed system. Typically, the only loss and replacement of water is needed for evaporation. Blessings, Righteous pool owner in the eyes of God e: https://katchakid.com/pool-evaporation/#:~:text=The%20average%20pool%20water%20evaporation,and%20the%20factors%20listed%20above. quote:Water evaporation rates vary based on water temperature, air temperature, wind speed, wind volatility, sun exposure, and humidity levels. The average pool water evaporation rate is about a quarter of an inch of water per day or more than two inches in a week, which on a 33′ x 18′ swimming pool (an average pool size) is more than 2500 liters or approximately 600 gallons a week; this may vary depending on your climate and the factors listed above. Huh, learn something new every day! 2" of water a week does seem a bit excessive, however. Henrik Zetterberg fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 19:30
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Lawns, sure, but pools are typically a closed system. Typically, the only loss and replacement of water is needed for evaporation. Repent thy sins, apostate!
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Sep 23, 2021 19:32
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Lawns, sure, but pools are typically a closed system. Typically, the only loss and replacement of water is needed for evaporation. they make a chemical "pool cover" you can add that's basically an oil that floats on top and reduces evaporation
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Sep 23, 2021 19:36
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Doesn't a regular pool cover also help prevent evaporation?
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Sep 23, 2021 19:46
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Glass of Milk posted:Doesn't a regular pool cover also help prevent evaporation? they don't make pool covers large enough to cover almond farms
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Sep 23, 2021 19:47
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Glass of Milk posted:Doesn't a regular pool cover also help prevent evaporation? Yes, and they work really well at avoiding evaporation.
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Sep 23, 2021 20:04
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Centrist Committee posted:they don't make pool covers large enough to cover almond farms They do make them large enough to cover almond farmers, though (in Minecraft)
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Sep 23, 2021 20:11
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Just make the farmers pay for the loving water at anything near a reasonable rate (we are very slowly already doing this, it’s why you see all the angry signs on the five) and they’ll implement irrigation best practices on their own once it’s actually metered. CA farmers are some of the biggest whiny shitheads imaginable and the image of humble honest yeoman farmers doing honest labor to support their families by providing food can’t die fast enough. Treat their workers like poo poo, devastate the local environment, get subsidized all over the place, and expect to be lauded as heroes for it. My most tankie opinion is definitely that agriculture should be in some way collectively owned. If we’re going to subsidize it this heavily just cut out the middleman. Vincent Van Goatse posted:Sometimes I suspect the real split in politics is as much about whether you want government to help people or punish your perceived enemies as it is whether you're on the left or the right. Yeah, I’ve noticed a few public figures even, people I used to agree with or even respect, just become increasingly unmoored as the guiding star of their politics became more and more owning THOSE loving SMUG PMC BRUNCH LIBS or something similar. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 21:08
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Fill Baptismal posted:Just make the farmers pay for the loving water at anything near a reasonable rate (we are very slowly already doing this, it’s why you see all the angry signs on the five) and they’ll implement irrigation best practices on their own once it’s actually metered.
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Sep 23, 2021 21:17
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Yeah, the whole idea is to make it unprofitable to grow water intensive crops like almonds (or at least less profitable) by making the water required cost more. Water doesn’t cost enough for them now, but if it did, almonds wouldn’t be as profitable to grow, at least in the current fashion.
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Sep 23, 2021 21:33
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That would just impact less profitable crops more, causing more people to switch to almonds to keep making a profit.
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Sep 23, 2021 21:43
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It would impact crops that require water more, which is the bad thing about almonds (shitloads of water). If there are even more water intensive crops that are less profitable I guess that could happen, sure. But the goal is to reduce water used, not necessarily stop almonds from being grown.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:05
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eSporks posted:That would just impact less profitable crops more, causing more people to switch to almonds to keep making a profit. Then there will be so many almonds in the market causing the price of almonds go down. The market once again solves the problems of Capitalism.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:11
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FEEED my my ALMOOOONDS, mister NEWSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
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Sep 23, 2021 23:11
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