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How much of the American(Californian) almond crop goes to making almond milk? A product that seems wasteful at both ends.
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Sep 24, 2021 00:11
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Cup Runneth Over posted:FEEED my my ALMOOOONDS, mister NEWSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM more more more more always more we want it it it's ours give it to us spend as much as it takes to give it to us more more more of course we won't PAY for it who do you think we are Greedy land baron posted:Other farmers, like Kathy Briano, reject the prospect of idling fertile Central Valley land. Briano agrees that it makes sense to protect the aquifer. But to make up for it, she wants the state to deliver more water from dams and reservoirs, to which she says the farms are entitled. "My solution is, you need to bring us more water," she says. "We can't keep taking from the valley, because we're taking away [food] production, and where can we grow everything? Right here!" Even when papers go hunting for the most sympathetic possible small farmer it's stuff like this Hereditary land baron complain about having to pay to use public resource her extractive business consumes posted:Masumoto is the fourth generation of her family to farm this land in Del Rey: 80 organic acres of stone fruit in eastern Fresno county in California’s fertile Central Valley, its most perfect peaches bound for the epicurean Chez Panisse restaurant in Berkeley.
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Sep 24, 2021 00:15
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Quote! It's not edit folks! 
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Sep 24, 2021 00:18
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California is one of the few places in the world that can grow almonds. We produce about 60% of the world's supply. Half-measures like increasing the cost of water is not going to change that fact; the market will just adjust to the higher cost of doing business because that is the only option. There needs to be a hard limit on the acreage planted.
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Sep 24, 2021 00:20
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We simply should make it illegal to grow them. I don't think any other solution is going to really change that they're basically using all the drat water in the state. The other places that can do it are outside our water system, so who gives a poo poo whether they waste the water there. I like almonds but I don't like them enough to want all the subsidies and poo poo for a damned cash crop. And honestly they're boring unless it's the flavored kind, and at that point I'm really just eating Doritos but with way more fat.
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Sep 24, 2021 01:05
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Larry Parrish posted:We simply should make it illegal to grow them. I don't think any other solution is going to really change that they're basically using all the drat water in the state. The other places that can do it are outside our water system, so who gives a poo poo whether they waste the water there. I like almonds but I don't like them enough to want all the subsidies and poo poo for a damned cash crop. And honestly they're boring unless it's the flavored kind, and at that point I'm really just eating Doritos but with way more fat. Completely banning them would be great but I'm not sure that's politically feasible. Maybe phasing down the number of acres planted by like 5% per year until we're at like one quarter of the current crop would be more tenable.
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Sep 24, 2021 01:13
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Yeah we need to take it slowly. What's the rush?
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Sep 24, 2021 01:17
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5% is not terrible but its probably better to start at 3%
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Sep 24, 2021 01:19
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The almonds themselves aren’t the problem, almonds aren’t like inherently bad or some poo poo, they aren’t The Nut Of Sin. It’s that there was until very recently little reason to not farm in the cheapest, most water intensive way possible because it was basically free until very recently and still doesn’t cost farmers what it should.
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Sep 24, 2021 01:36
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Seph posted:Completely banning them would be great but I'm not sure that's politically feasible. Maybe phasing down the number of acres planted by like 5% per year until we're at like one quarter of the current crop would be more tenable. feasible for who, lol. im aware that it's just anecdotal but i don't know a single person who doesn't want almonds banned or otherwise heavily restricted lol. people aren't stupid, we've been in a drought for ages and there's these guys who use literally more water than everyone else combined. you fix a problem in steps and 'the guys using the most, and also returning the least value' seem like step one to most people. and no, despite being a filthy red most people I know and talk to about stuff like this are regular liberals- this is even farming and ranching country, the people traditionally most opposed to any regulation in thst area.
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Sep 24, 2021 02:19
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What's the ratio of water use to state tax revenue with almonds?
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Sep 24, 2021 02:26
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droll posted:Yeah we need to take it slowly. What's the rush? Sure, let's just pass a law to ban capitalism while we're going through our masturbatory wish lists. An outright ban on almond growing is a political non-starter and on top of that would cause a massive disruption to the entire central valley. Tens of thousands of people, mostly poor working class latinos, would be out of work in an already poor area. The most feasible way of reducing agricultural water consumption is to slowly ratchet down our usage over the next decade or two. There's no need to reduce all of the water consumption this year vs. over the span of a decade. Droughts and water tables operate on a much longer time span than year to year. What's important is that we make sure we are moving in the right direction. Seph fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 02:29
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Panfilo posted:What's the ratio of water use to state tax revenue with almonds? Agriculture in general uses 40% of the water and makes up less than 2% of CA GDP. Almonds are $5.6 billion/year, so a small part of the CA economy. Based on those numbers, I'd be surprised if agriculture as a whole was a useful amount of revenue for the state, to say nothing of just almonds. Agriculture was "nearly $50 billion" in 2018. California GDP was $3 trillion in 2020, and it shrank that year.
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Sep 24, 2021 03:41
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Seph posted:. Tens of thousands of people, mostly poor working class latinos, would be out of work in an already poor area. It should be noted that the “area” isn’t really poor. There is a shitload of money in ag. If you took all the dollars from all the gold dug up in the gold rush, CA ag makes that. Every year. Year over year. Very little of that trickles down to the workers in the area of course
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Sep 24, 2021 04:03
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Proust Malone posted:Very little of that trickles down to the workers in the area of course And unfortunately we have Democrats in office to keep it that way. https://twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/1440816558251470852
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Sep 24, 2021 04:10
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Proust Malone posted:It should be noted that the “area” isn’t really poor. There is a shitload of money in ag. If you took all the dollars from all the gold dug up in the gold rush, CA ag makes that. Every year. Year over year. Yes. Farmers are, overall, wealthier than average. Farm workers are the ones who actually put food on our tables and are treated like poo poo because agricultural labor sucks (there’s a reason multiple civilizations, searching for a reliable way to get people to do it, landed on: slavery). That being said, banning almonds is dumb, farmers don’t grow them because they’re Captain Planet villains who chortle and say I LOVE WASTING WATER. Crops like almonds are the symptom, not the problem themselves.
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Sep 24, 2021 04:23
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Thread, I apologize on behalf of my lovely county https://twitter.com/DesertSunNews/status/1441233446878121990?s=20
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Sep 24, 2021 04:50
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Someone (NOT me) should simply burn all the almond farms to the ground in a controlled manner
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Sep 24, 2021 05:39
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you can get almonds with wasabi dust on it
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Sep 24, 2021 05:53
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Get the wasabi peas instead.
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Sep 24, 2021 05:56
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I guess if a goon ever looks likely to win power in CA I’m filing a warehouse with Marzipan to make a killing after almond prohibition goes through. I’ll be the sugary Escobar of the Central Valley. E: It is a little weird that something we evidently corner not only the national but global market in features so little in state identity, symbols, etc. If any other state produced like 80% of the world’s almonds you know it would be in the state motto and the state university football team would be called the Fightin’ Nuts. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 05:57
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I was looking at where we export almonds and 75% is bought by India, so it sounds like we need to get into a trade war with them to kill the international market. You know, trade wars are easy and never backfire
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Sep 24, 2021 06:00
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eSporks posted:Read that Atlantic piece for why this won't do anything. So long as its profitable to grow almonds, people will find ways to grow more almonds. If you straight up cut water allocations or increase prices enough that there's a meaningful difference between pumping an entire allocation vs less (do both), the farmer at least has some economic reason to improve efficiency. You want the farmer's reaction to something like drip irrigation allowing more water efficient farming to be "use less water on existing trees because water is expensive/it is illegal to pump more", not "how can I make money with my newly freed up water before my well dries up again"
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Sep 24, 2021 06:19
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Yeah, and if they don't use all of their allocated water on their own land they just sell the use rights to someone else at market rates, so it still gets used.
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Sep 24, 2021 06:51
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Fill Baptismal posted:That being said, banning almonds is dumb, farmers don’t grow them because they’re Captain Planet villains who chortle and say I LOVE WASTING WATER. Crops like almonds are the symptom, not the problem themselves. Unfortunately it's a lot more likely to get a bill or ballot option to ban almond growing through (or, more likely, some kind of hard limit on water/acre that makes it nonviable) than it would be to get the state legislature to outlaw private property, so. I dunno. We can't do nothing, but we have to work in the framework of this stupid state that intentionally ensures nothing ever happens, so... You know. Not much else to do besides hope, I guess.
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Sep 24, 2021 07:30
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fermun posted:And unfortunately we have Democrats in office to keep it that way. Noted Democratic stronghold, the central valley.
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Sep 24, 2021 07:40
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e. ^Gavin isn't located in the central valley and their regional politics have no bearing on Gavin's decision to veto a pro-union bill at the state level? It's not just almonds, if you're going to actually impact agricultural cash crop water usage in the state you'd also need to put limits on rice, alfalfa, vineyards, cotton, sugar beets, and the biggest offender of them all (and actually larger consumer of water in the state than almonds): pasture for meat and dairy production.
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Sep 24, 2021 07:45
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Noted Democratic stronghold, the central valley. I have no idea what you are saying. Gavin Newsom isn't just governor of the central valley, he's governor of the entire state, and he vetoed a labor rights bill that would have made California agricultural workers have the same union election rights that non-agricultural workers have.
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Sep 24, 2021 08:04
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fermun posted:I have no idea what you are saying. Gavin Newsom isn't just governor of the central valley, he's governor of the entire state, and he vetoed a labor rights bill that would have made California agricultural workers have the same union election rights that non-agricultural workers have. I'm saying that the region leans very Republican, so blaming all their ills on Democrats seems funny to me. It was a glib joke, since this is the community that elects people like Devin Nunes. I do have a question about that bill though: why is having a secret ballot worse than card check? I haven't gone through either process, and googling it gives me scare articles about how card check is evil and undemocratic, or super simple and the best way to do things but nobody breaks down what the difference actually is in a clear way.
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Sep 24, 2021 08:31
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I'm saying that the region leans very Republican, so blaming all their ills on Democrats seems funny to me. It was a glib joke, since this is the community that elects people like Devin Nunes. I was criticizing a democrat governor for being anti-labor for agricultural workers that are in the area. It had nothing to do with the community electing Devin Nunes. I strongly doubt that the farm workers are actually Devin Nunes voters to begin with. Agricultural workers are exempt from most federal labor laws, and as a result it's relatively easy for a company to union-bust and rig the elections compared to a normal company. Keep in mind that the way a union election happens is that the majority of the workers at a workplace vote to unionize and sign a letter saying that they are a union then the owner says no, they arent. If a farm owner had their laborers vote to unionize, they could hire a bunch of new farm workers and pay them to vote no to unionization in secret ballot, then let it go to court. For a normal unionization campaign their votes would be dismissed, though it might take 6 to 12 months for their votes to be dismissed, but with the lax labor laws for agricultural workers a lot of those votes will be considered valid. On top of that, there is a much higher turnover rate in agricultural work than in most industries so the ability to delay the results from the election by a year or more can result in enough turnover to no longer have the vote for unionization. AB616 would have made it so that the workers could have gathered their votes in advance and present them without the employer then being able to union bust, but gavin newsom decided to veto in order to protect union busting.
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Sep 24, 2021 08:53
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card check is bad because it makes it easier to then go a step further and be like 'well you can only get a up to date voter card if you register' and then 'well you need a current license to register...' and so on that all sounds very reasonable at each step but at the end adds up to 'if you've ever had a speeding ticket you can't vote anymore' maybe someone else has a smarter take, though, it's not like I particularly care about the details of voter suppression programs in the first place; I already don't think representative democracy is either representative or democratic, so it's not like I care if the liberals make it more of a sham than it already is.
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Sep 24, 2021 08:55
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Larry Parrish posted:card check is bad because it makes it easier to then go a step further and be like 'well you can only get a up to date voter card if you register' and then 'well you need a current license to register...' and so on that all sounds very reasonable at each step but at the end adds up to 'if you've ever had a speeding ticket you can't vote anymore' Cool man. DeadlyMuffin posted:I'm saying that the region leans very Republican, so blaming all their ills on Democrats seems funny to me. It was a glib joke, since this is the community that elects people like Devin Nunes. If you're interested in achieving relief for people living under conditions of oppression, I recommend considering the subtleties of the relationship between local, state, and federal governance, and the ways that electoral results can obscure democratic will, which might be instead be expressed through direct action. For example: despite the local electoral dominance of right-wing agribusness interests in the Valley that suppress the electoral rights of many people who live in that region, there are still legitimate democratic avenues for expressing disgusting in the Democratic (note the capital D) politicians who fail to defend those rights. These democratic avenues include the very march you have dismissed as illegitimate. In relation to the earlier quote, note that acknowledging the problems of elections as an expression of democratic will is not the same as dismissing the principle of representative democracy.
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Sep 24, 2021 09:41
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Fill Baptismal posted:I guess if a goon ever looks likely to win power in CA I’m filing a warehouse with Marzipan to make a killing after almond prohibition goes through. I’ll be the sugary Escobar of the Central Valley. California has actual culture
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Sep 24, 2021 09:51
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Cup Runneth Over posted:California has actual culture Get Idaho's rear end.
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Sep 24, 2021 10:05
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Cup Runneth Over posted:California has actual culture we did before the Spanish and the gold rush guys killed most of the natives anyway
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Sep 24, 2021 12:07
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Fill Baptismal posted:I guess if a goon ever looks likely to win power in CA I’m filing a warehouse with Marzipan to make a killing after almond prohibition goes through. I’ll be the sugary Escobar of the Central Valley.
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Sep 24, 2021 14:29
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eSporks posted:Blue Diamond is sorta a hallmark of Sacramento. I prefer the black diamonds in Tahoe
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Sep 24, 2021 15:32
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Cup Runneth Over posted:California has actual culture yeah, suburban sprawl, Reagan, killing transit, landlords!
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Sep 24, 2021 16:42
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Celexi posted:yeah, suburban sprawl, Reagan, killing transit, landlords! ...Reagan? What decade do you think we're in?
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Sep 24, 2021 16:46
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Celexi posted:yeah, suburban sprawl, Reagan, killing transit, landlords! Don’t forget apps! Screen after screen of innovative market solutions disrupting the world’s most wicked problems!
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Sep 24, 2021 17:03
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