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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Even at the start when there was a massive PPE shortage, attempting to address it by asking people to voluntarily refrain from buying N95s was silly. If it's a problem for ordinary consumers to be buying masks, then don't let them be sold to ordinary consumers in the first place. Pull 'em from the shelves. Have CVS sell their mask stocks to medical supply stores instead of any random rear end in a top hat who walks in off the street. The entire thing was so goddamn silly. So many of our current problems result from the reluctance to take actual government action until it was way too late.
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Sep 24, 2021 15:18
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poll plane variant posted:Starting to think that in the social media age societies with freedom of speech devolve inevitably into spasms of right wing violence and insanity worse than most actual authoritarian governments. I think what you're talking about sounds like a much less stressful way of life than right wing extremists with guns in government buildings every week. I know some authoritarian governments are bad but China sounds drat near utopian right now. I mean, that isn't really an essential feature of places with freedom of speech. I won't say anywhere in the world is completely immune to right-wing activity or even violence, but "right wing extremists with guns in government buildings every week" doesn't describe your average western democracy. America is somewhat unique right now in that the degree of polarization is extreme, far beyond what's typical in most democracies.
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Sep 24, 2021 15:38
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Main Paineframe posted:Even at the start when there was a massive PPE shortage, attempting to address it by asking people to voluntarily refrain from buying N95s was silly. If it's a problem for ordinary consumers to be buying masks, then don't let them be sold to ordinary consumers in the first place. Pull 'em from the shelves. Have CVS sell their mask stocks to medical supply stores instead of any random rear end in a top hat who walks in off the street. The entire thing was so goddamn silly. So many of our current problems result from the reluctance to take actual government action until it was way too late. It feels like in effect this would have happened without any government effort. Let CVS stock whatever masks they want, but producers of medical N95s already were pretty much exclusively set up for a institutional supply chain, there really wasn't a market for N95+ medical masks in a retail environment prior to the pandemic, and there was little chance that many of those masks would have made their way to store shelves in the first place.
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Sep 24, 2021 15:40
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I think the analysis on whether this or that country is authoritarian isn't as good a frame as analyzing tactics as authoritarian or libertarian, at least in regards to the national project of containing a viral pandemic. Australia, NZ, and China instituted extremely anti-libertarian (which is to say, authoritarian) lockdowns and restrictions and as a result, have had extremely good outcomes re: the spread of a viral pandemic. The flip side is the libertarian approach, focusing on incentives and letting the market figure it, which is a lot closer to what we did, and we got the same result doing this as every other country that did it. This stuff is so well known and old that it was old news two millennia before anything actually specific beyond AVOID! BOARD THEIR HOUSE UP! was known I think it's hard to see this any other way, as though there's some difference in how the commies dealt with it versus the Aussies because, what? They get to vote on stuff? So do the Cubans and Chinese, what's it got to do with pandemics? poll plane variant posted:Starting to think that in the social media age societies with freedom of speech devolve inevitably into spasms of right wing violence and insanity worse than most actual authoritarian governments. I think what you're talking about sounds like a much less stressful way of life than right wing extremists with guns in government buildings every week. I know some authoritarian governments are bad but China sounds drat near utopian right now. My stance on social media is pretty uncomplicated but it's definitely worth considering if this pandemic would've been better or worse had Facebook not existed
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Sep 24, 2021 16:29
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Epic High Five posted:My stance on social media is pretty uncomplicated but it's definitely worth considering if this pandemic would've been better or worse had Facebook not existed I have some bad news about where you are posting.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:31
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Discendo Vox posted:https://www.authorea.com/users/421653/articles/527590-ffp3-respirators-protect-healthcare-workers-against-infection-with-sars-cov-2 What’s with the scare quotes, is there a problem with it we should know about?
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Sep 24, 2021 16:33
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Discendo Vox posted:I have some bad news about where you are posting. Elaborate on this please
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Sep 24, 2021 16:35
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Epic High Five posted:Elaborate on this please SA is social media, specifically one of the less moderated parts. mawarannahr posted:What’s with the scare quotes, is there a problem with it we should know about? You know that it's because the nominal research has not gone through peer review or publication, and was tied entirely to promotional coverage generated by the university. It's in my post. This has been discussed before. None of it's new. I'm not interested in doing the "make vox explain scientific literacy from first principles" schtick again. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 16:37
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Wouldn’t it make logical sense that the best ways to reduce the impact of an airborne virus are actions that minimize the spread like staying home and masks that block 95%+ of airborne water droplets? Seems pretty silly to think otherwise and shame folks for protecting themselves and their families. I could see some finger wagging for masks and respirators with valves but N95 masks without valves should be the mandatory option when I public.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:39
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Discendo Vox posted:SA is social media, specifically one of the less moderated parts. SA content is indexed only by time and topic and has no algorithms or upvote mechanic or anything like that. You have to seek everything out manually and interact with it naturally.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:42
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poll plane variant posted:SA content is indexed only by time and topic and has no algorithms or upvote mechanic or anything like that. You have to seek everything out manually and interact with it naturally. Yes, it is indeed social media. The presence or absence of voting algorithms or other sorting (it uses most recent activity which does have sorting effects extremely visible in the emergent structure of DnD) is not a criterion of social media, nor the all-causing source of its harms.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:45
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Discendo Vox posted:SA is social media, specifically one of the less moderated parts. Obviously the description of facebook twitter etc means "social media with an actual impact on society and capable of influencing social norms", not this dead old comedy forum. I understand that you are being technically accurate, but it's also a deliberately obtuse and pointlessly lovely derail.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:47
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Discendo Vox posted:SA is social media, specifically one of the less moderated parts. I don't personally agree that 90's style message boards really count as "social media" as it is understood today but I can get why someone would lump them together since it's not like the two circles don't share space. I'm definitely on the "COVID wouldn't be as bad if Facebook didn't exist" side
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Sep 24, 2021 16:47
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It seems pretty obvious from looking at SA that it's perfectly capable of radicalizing users - which is the typical complaint against social media. The direction of radicalization is different than Facebook or Reddit, for sure. I'd say it's the good kind of radicalization, but obviously I'm saying that while existing in that bubble.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:50
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Discendo Vox posted:SA is social media, specifically one of the less moderated parts. Ok, it’s nice you wrote a guide, what’s the actual problem with what it says about masks? PS, research without peer review is still research, but you know that.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:51
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Blitter posted:Obviously the description of facebook twitter etc means "social media with an actual impact on society and capable of influencing social norms", not this dead old comedy forum. We are not special, and we are not immune to the same functions. Though there may not be automated algorithms involved, the same social problems- problems of moderation, abuse, normalization, and targeting - occur. We are also not less capable of effecting outside sources on SA than other platforms. The "old dead comedy forum" response has never been a meaningful expression of distance. There is no magic circle around SA that makes it "not real" any more than any other media platform. The distancing, rationalizing effect that there is a barrier between the platform and "things that matter" was the same mechanism that made 4chan what it is. Epic High Five posted:I don't personally agree that 90's style message boards really count as "social media" as it is understood today but I can get why someone would lump them together since it's not like the two circles don't share space. I'm definitely on the "COVID wouldn't be as bad if Facebook didn't exist" side The problems of sites like Facebook and twitter are specifically rooted in decisions by people decisionmaking power regarding those sites to not exercise that power effectively, favoring the benefits of "the libertarian approach". We are not special, and we are not immune to the same functions. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 16:56
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SA is more like antisocial media
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Sep 24, 2021 17:00
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Having to use multiple illegal VPNs to access non-state internet would suck and that's not even getting into the social credit 1984 poo poo. China is not some utopian paradise, they have/had mobile execution vans for fucks sake
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Sep 24, 2021 17:07
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Discendo Vox posted:The problems of sites like Facebook and twitter are specifically rooted in decisions by people decisionmaking power regarding those sites to not exercise that power effectively, favoring the benefits of "the libertarian approach". We are not special, and we are not immune to the same functions. As many here can tell you, I'm happy to discuss the broader strokes of social media in a thread where it's a bit more appropriate, but specifically in this case as I put forward I believe that Facebook made the pandemic worse here and SA did not. Getting into the weeds about what is and isn't social media is a bit beyond the scope here
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Sep 24, 2021 17:09
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HonorableTB posted:Having to use multiple illegal VPNs to access non-state internet would suck and that's not even getting into the social credit 1984 poo poo. It sucks but it’s not a huge deal, more of a minor inconvenience. The internet doesn’t feel more free here than it does in Turkey, and there are things you can get in trouble for here that wouldn’t get you in trouble there. You’d be able to adapt. I don’t know about the social credit system but I can’t imagine it’s worse than a private credit rating system that uses your browser history.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:12
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HonorableTB posted:Having to use multiple illegal VPNs to access non-state internet would suck and that's not even getting into the social credit 1984 poo poo. China is not some utopian paradise, they have/had mobile execution vans for fucks sake Yeah, it's a bummer that the only effective way to stop COVID is through execution vans and social credit systems. But, as we all know, those were the key pillars of China's Zero COVID policy. The price is just too high so we'll just have to surrender to COVID instead.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:12
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Yeah, while I do think people on SA have had their experiences with covid altered by being posters or lurkers here, it's a drop in the bucket compared to Facebook. And even with SA's moderation issues, it's still a better space than Facebook, which will put you in Facebook jail for being a woman calling out men for some men bullshit, but white men are a protected class given far more leeway with what kind of things they are allowed to post. E: sorry for contributing to a bit of a derail, but I just don't think SA has made much of an impact wrt covid aside from some people staying in more and wearing different masks.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:14
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To, hopefully, get ahead of importing the xenophobic discussion from the previous thread, check out this funny covid story: https://twitter.com/jessica_smetana/status/1441427604653985792?s=20 vvvv everything is a statistic until it happens to you or your loved one. Better to be cautious. Plus dying isn’t, arguably, the worst thing about covid. A lifetime of disabilities can be catastrophic to people, their careers, and way of life. Not to mention the impact on families. We don’t know the long term ramifications of long covid and I would not like my family to personally discover them. 
virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 17:16
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Fritz the Horse posted:I mean, I'm going on a camping trip with family this weekend. We're all vaccinated. Nobody believes it's a magic force field, everyone that is taking the pandemic seriously enough to get vaccinated is well aware of breakthrough cases and that vaccinated people can still rarely get severe illness especially if elderly or immunocompromised etc. Yeah, the media and various Twitter personalities love to highlight young people dying largely because it keeps people afraid and eventually, leads people to embrace more nihilistic and/or unnecessarily extremist tendencies. It seems similar to the fossil fuel companies and the groups and reports they choose to financially support/signal boost, but as of yet I'm unclear who would benefit from that other than the social media personalities who have built a brand off ensnaring people with ALERT ALERT and THIS SO BAD takes. We can break COVID deaths and hospitalizations down by age group, with help from https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics and https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html, though the caveats of there being some incomplete data applies. As of today, and focusing on the age groups goons are most likely to be a part of... Cases: - 18-29: 7.37 million - 30-39: 5.49 million - 40-49: 4.84 million Deaths: - 18-29: 3,367 - 30-39: 7,920 - 40-49: 18.680 Which includes loads of data pre-vaccination. An 18-29 yo, on average, would have ~0.05% chance of dying, a 30-39 yo person, on average, would have ~0.15% chance of dying, and a 40-49yo, on average, would have ~0.4% chance of dying when they got COVID. Even JJ havers, which looks to improve severe outcome metrics by ~75%, means that even the 40-49yo would drop to ~0.1% chance of dying. Note there are caveats here! It is likely that we have drastically undercounted Cases, catching potentially only 33% of them. Meanwhile, excess mortality observations and other estimates suggest we have undercounted Deaths, potentially catching only 80% of them. It would be unknown how those differences would shake out, though my expectation is that younger cases would be missed (as they're more asymptomatic) while older deaths would be missed (because they die at home and get carted off and nobody checks). And then, hospitalizations. Unfortunately the data I found has 18-49 lumped together, and is surveillance of only a small area encompassing 10% of the population, so that's just one big ol' number, 60,790 hospitalizations of the 18-49 age group, out of a total population of ~33 million. We'll make assumptions we can extrapolate to the US population. Still, combining the 3 Cases groups above gets us an 18-49 Cases of ~17.7 million, and extrapolating ~60k hospitalizations in 33 million to ~600k hospitalizations in 330 million, if you're in this age group and you got COVID, you'd have ~3.5% chance of being hospitalized if you got COVID. Again, even a smaller effectiveness of vaccination at ~50% would mean ~1.7% chance of hospitalization if you got COVID. And, similar concerns as to Cases/Deaths apply here, that we have massively undercounted Cases, but the same may not apply to Hospitalizations, because it's likely we catch nearly all COVID hospitalizations. If we assume we've not got half the total number of COVID cases, that just drops the % chance even lower. This is one of those situations where at the population level, this remains bad and important and we should be doing things like mass vaccination campaigns and NPIs where appropriate (and if you think to tell me that the average person would actually wear an N95, N99, or P100 appropriately, lmao), but at the vaccinated individual level of someone who does not have significant co-morbidities, the likelihood of even hospitalization is actually extremely low, and as we saw from the Death stats, the risk goes up rapidly in the 40-49 group and above. 18-39 are in an even better position. And given that infection acquired immunity does in fact appear to provide lasting, effective, immunity to even future variants, each subsequent time the average person catches COVID drops those severe metrics by similarly large factors as vaccination. The reason why you don't go for infection acquired immunity is because a replicating disease in your body is bad, even if the immunity is the same or better as vaccination. We vaccinate to protect those who would have otherwise died or been severely ill. And even with the possibility of waning immunity + some Delta evasion, we still see significantly high reduction in severity for the vaccines distributed in the US.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:16
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mawarannahr posted:Ok, it’s nice you wrote a guide, what’s the actual problem with what it says about masks? That it's not peer reviewed means it should be taken with a grain of salt and it's not going to be used to shape official policy (by CDC or whoever). Why isn't the CDC using it as evidence to change their masking recommendations? Because it's a preprint, for one thing. The Guardian article is publicity in the sense that they mostly interview the authors about their work.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:20
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mawarannahr posted:Ok, it’s nice you wrote a guide, what’s the actual problem with what it says about masks? Research without peer review may be research, but is it accurate and correct research? That's what peer review would help determine. But you know that. If someone asks for evidence that X is effective and you link them a study that has not been peer reviewed and is promotional, it is you who is in the wrong, not the person criticizing you or the study. Asking that person "well great can you tell us what the problems with the study are" is just burden-shifting.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:26
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Here's a good high level Twitter thread on the topic of boosters from someone who knows what they're talking about (as opposed to Gottleib, Topol or Feigl-Ding). He links to some good studies on vaccine effectiveness and also covers Moderna/J&J a bit. The upshot is essentially that he agrees with the CDC that the vaccines are still working great but boosters are appropriate for some groups either because they have reasons to not want to get any detectable infection (keeping healthcare workers at work instead of in isolation) or because they're more vulnerable (older folks/nursing home residents). https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1441427687365480452
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Sep 24, 2021 17:39
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:To, hopefully, get ahead of importing the xenophobic discussion from the previous thread, check out this funny covid story: I mean, you can choose to do whatever makes the most sense for your own risk assessment, but imo knowing statistics is helpful for my own. There's a good number of things right now that are much more likely to kill me than covid, as a vaccinated person, and that helps me feel confident and safe when I wear an n95 mask and do my grocery shopping. My partner and I are in the exact same boat regarding not wanting to gently caress around and find out wrt long covid, not until we have more info. Thanks for sharing "vaccinated out the wazoo," I say that satisfies the needs of the pet tax for this page.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:44
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Professor Beetus posted:There's a good number of things right now that are much more likely to kill me than covid, as a vaccinated person, and that helps me feel confident and safe when I wear an n95 mask and do my grocery shopping. My partner and I are in the exact same boat regarding not wanting to gently caress around and find out wrt long covid, not until we have more info. The, "but what about the long term risk?" argument is also very similar to the anti-vaxxer argument wrt both the adenovirus and mRNA vaccines, because technically we don't really know what happens on a large population basis with regular usage of these vaccine types 15-20 years in the future. Thus far humans experience vaccine adverse effects within 6 months - but it took veterinary medicine a bit to find out a vaccine associated event that can take years to manifest in cats (and is exquisitely bad). Could we discover something bad decades from now due to mRNA vaccination? Sure, it's just highly unlikely. Meanwhile, Long COVID is an observed thing, but it too appears to be a small component of people who had COVID, and in some cases, overlap with chronic syndromes of other disease processes. That doesn't make it a good thing, that doesn't make it a nothing, but we must always endeavor to counteract our often risk focused, psychological state with what data actually looks like. That said I still can't fly on a plane. 
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Sep 24, 2021 17:59
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Focusing the entire conversation of "keeping Covid under control" on China is stupid and people keep doing it because it allows them to not have hard conversations about reality and face the fact that the US has basically just let 3/4 of a million people die for no good reason. If you have to talk about the reality of treating the pandemic like any number of countries, that have been able to control it that are not China, then you have to get down into the details of exactly why the US is a failed state on many levels. So, much easier to talk about China, a country that's very very bad but also did good on Covid. Then we talk about Uygher genocide and the Great Firewall and pretend that Australia, South Korea, etc, are some unachievable ideal.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:12
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HelloSailorSign posted:
Do you have any studies or anything to point me to for this, especially the forward looking protection? I remember early in the pandemic it seemed like reinfections was a major concern with p.1 and possibly other variants (sorry don't know it's greek letter name off the top of my head). Specifically reinfection was thought to contribute to the severity of the wave in Brazil last winter/spring. This is the study I remember (https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1353) quote:Manaus has been labelled a sentinel population as it was believed to have been the first city in the world to reach herd immunity before it was devastated by an unexpected second wave of infections in early 2021. A leading theory has been that P.1—which emerged there in November 2020—drove a second wave by causing reinfections and spreading more easily. P.1 subsequently spread throughout Brazil and drove the country’s deadliest wave of infections yet. Admittedly the study is pre-print and not the largest sample size. I know there has been similar concerns with other variants as well and I've heard enough anecdotes about people being reinfected that it seems prudent to be skeptical of claims that that post-infection immunity is similarly effective as vaccination.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:28
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whiskey patrol posted:Do you have any studies or anything to point me to for this, especially the forward looking protection? I remember early in the pandemic it seemed like reinfections was a major concern with p.1 and possibly other variants (sorry don't know it's greek letter name off the top of my head). Specifically reinfection was thought to contribute to the severity of the wave in Brazil last winter/spring. This is the study I remember (https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1353) HelloSailorSign has a better understanding of immunology than I do, but I believe they're referring to how memory B cells work. When you get a covid infection or the vaccine, your body creates memory B cells that remember how to make antibodies to SARS-CoV-2. Over time your circulating antibodies will wane so you're more likely to be reinfected, but your memory cells can crank out fresh antibodies so you'll still mostly be prevented from severe disease. However, memory B cells don't just store antibodies from infection/vaccination, they also produce a bunch of slight variations on the original antibodies. In that way your immune system anticipates viral mutation. Caveat: immunology is complex wizardry but that's my simplified understanding.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:44
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PostNouveau posted:Yeah, it's a bummer that the only effective way to stop COVID is through execution vans and social credit systems. But, as we all know, those were the key pillars of China's Zero COVID policy. The price is just too high so we'll just have to surrender to COVID instead. You forgot to weld people into their buildings and heavily restrict internal travel on top of the already restrictive hukou system
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Sep 24, 2021 18:48
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HonorableTB posted:You forgot to weld people into their buildings and heavily restrict internal travel on top of the already restrictive hukou system Is the welding something that actually happened? I can’t find anything authoritative beyond claims on social media. All the news I’ve looked at indicate that they “appear to” show welding but I have no idea if they show what the media claims it shows. If that is the source of this idea, I don’t think it’s reliable.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:54
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Jaxyon posted:So, much easier to talk about China, a country that's very very bad but also did good on Covid. Then we talk about Uygher genocide and the Great Firewall and pretend that Australia, South Korea, etc, are some unachievable ideal. Internet censorship would probably be really helpful against covid, though
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Sep 24, 2021 18:55
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mawarannahr posted:Is the welding something that actually happened? I can’t find anything authoritative beyond claims on social media. All the news I’ve looked at indicate that they “appear to” show welding but I have no idea if they show what the media claims it shows. If that is the source of this idea, I don’t think it’s reliable. I suspect, but I'm admittedly not sure, that alternate exits to buildings may have been welded shut temporarily so as to make entry/exit possible to control with fewer guards. We know that there was that level of restriction based on what the government said, and what eyewitnesses reported, in that context it makes sense and it's not literally "buildings being welded shut."
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Sep 24, 2021 18:56
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HonorableTB posted:You forgot to weld people into their buildings and heavily restrict internal travel on top of the already restrictive hukou system *looks at the scoreboard* 
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Sep 24, 2021 19:09
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PostNouveau posted:*looks at the scoreboard* Weird as hell pet tax for this page but I guess I'll allow it.
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Sep 24, 2021 19:29
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Professor Beetus posted:Weird as hell pet tax for this page but I guess I'll allow it. I know the supply shortage is bad but we can’t even make IK stars in this country anymore?
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Sep 24, 2021 19:30
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| # ? May 20, 2024 15:27 |
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So this is fun. ’Vigilante treatments’: Anti-vaccine groups push people to leave ICUs quote:Anti-vaccine Facebook groups have a new message for their community members: Don’t go to the emergency room, and get your loved ones out of intensive care units.  Pet Tax
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Sep 24, 2021 19:46
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