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It's not legacy but my favorite 'holy crap this game is ridiculous sometimes' deck is legacy oops all spells.
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Sep 25, 2021 19:03
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NotNut posted:I wanted to make a powerful vintage deck of proxies to show my casual friends how ridiculous the game can get. So I looked at some of the vintage meta for ideas, but they're evolved specifically to counter other vintage meta decks, whereas I want something more general. Does anyone have recommendations for cards and combos to use in a vintage red/white/blue for playing against any possible opponent? Any belcher variant should work. By which I mean any deck that wins on t1 and only loses when you ask your opponent if they have a force of will Or just build legacy deliver but with mox and lotus
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Sep 25, 2021 19:20
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An example of the kind of card I'm looking for is Mana Drain, since it's apparently not used much in legacy meta due to the counters there needing to be 1 or 0 mana cost, but is earth-shattering against other formatsHootTheOwl posted:Any belcher variant should work. By which I mean any deck that wins on t1 and only loses when you ask your opponent if they have a force of will How does delver work?
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Sep 25, 2021 19:32
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NotNut posted:An example of the kind of card I'm looking for is Mana Drain, since it's apparently not used much in legacy meta due to the counters there needing to be 1 or 0 mana cost, but is earth-shattering against other formats To be clear, Mana Drain isn't used in Legacy because it's been banned for almost 20 years.
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Sep 25, 2021 19:41
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NotNut posted:I wanted to make a powerful vintage deck of proxies to show my casual friends how ridiculous the game can get. So I looked at some of the vintage meta for ideas, but they're evolved specifically to counter other vintage meta decks, whereas I want something more general. Does anyone have recommendations for cards and combos to use in a vintage red/white/blue for playing against any possible opponent? http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=32357&d=448854&f=VI Bazaar aggro has your back, with a creature base worth $100 backed by a manabase worth $40000
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Sep 25, 2021 19:50
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NotNut posted:I wanted to make a powerful vintage deck of proxies to show my casual friends how ridiculous the game can get. So I looked at some of the vintage meta for ideas, but they're evolved specifically to counter other vintage meta decks, whereas I want something more general. Does anyone have recommendations for cards and combos to use in a vintage red/white/blue for playing against any possible opponent? Jeskai Xerox is a good one. It plays a lot of one-ofs and restricted cards, so you can ludicrously blow out your opponents in a variety of ways. To play with friends, you should cut the maindeck Pyroblasts for another Ragavan and more removal. I recommend buying two proxy decks so your opponents can try playing Vintage as well.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:00
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I mean if you want to show 'true vintage power' without all the ways the vintage metagame has shaped decks just build storm. Then draw an opening hand and realize you don't have the first idea of how to play storm.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:04
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disaster pastor posted:To be clear, Mana Drain isn't used in Legacy because it's been banned for almost 20 years. I can absolutely understand why "Counterspell with significant upside" is very loving good, but I'm actually a little surprised it's "banned in legacy" good. Is the text just that strong, or is there some busted interaction where you're "countering" your own can't be countered spells to generate a ton of mana or something?
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Sep 25, 2021 20:07
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goferchan posted:I can absolutely understand why "Counterspell with significant upside" is very loving good, but I'm actually a little surprised it's "banned in legacy" good. Is the text just that strong, or is there some busted interaction where you're "countering" your own can't be countered spells to generate a ton of mana or something? It was banned in 2004 when the Legacy ban list was disconnected from the Vintage restricted list. Blue has always been good in Legacy, so they've never felt a need to make it stronger by letting them have Mana Drain. The list of cards they banned in 2004 is: Bazaar of Baghdad, Goblin Recruiter, Hermit Druid, Illusionary Mask, Land Tax, Mana Drain, Metalworker, Mishra's Workshop, Oath of Druids, Replenish, Skullclamp, and Worldgorger Dragon
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Sep 25, 2021 20:13
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I would play some version of vintage storm. I build a deck back in the day called "the perfect storm" and goldfishing it can win in one turn often enough.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:14
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goferchan posted:I can absolutely understand why "Counterspell with significant upside" is very loving good, but I'm actually a little surprised it's "banned in legacy" good. Is the text just that strong, or is there some busted interaction where you're "countering" your own can't be countered spells to generate a ton of mana or something? Even the simplest situation, you counter their 2 drop on your turn and then take your turn 5, or make a 3 drop while keeping up counterspell mana is backbreaking.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:22
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At the time, Mana Drain decks played creatures like Morphling or Psychatog. In the early game, they'd use Mana Drain's extra mana to cast something like Fact or Fiction or Cunning Wish to gain card advantage.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:31
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NotNut posted:I wanted to make a powerful vintage deck of proxies to show my casual friends how ridiculous the game can get. So I looked at some of the vintage meta for ideas, but they're evolved specifically to counter other vintage meta decks, whereas I want something more general. Does anyone have recommendations for cards and combos to use in a vintage red/white/blue for playing against any possible opponent? I'm not a vintage guy but legacy madness is pretty explosive. I'm sure there's a vintage variant that exists somewhere
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Sep 25, 2021 20:32
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Dreqqus posted:It's not legacy but my favorite 'holy crap this game is ridiculous sometimes' deck is legacy oops all spells. Someone, Chamale I think, described that deck as the deck you pull out against "someone who claims their deck is unbeatable but does not know what a sideboard is."
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Sep 25, 2021 20:43
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Chamale posted:Jeskai Xerox is a good one. It plays a lot of one-ofs and restricted cards, so you can ludicrously blow out your opponents in a variety of ways. To play with friends, you should cut the maindeck Pyroblasts for another Ragavan and more removal. Yeah, I might make another too. Thanks for the recommendation. How does copying the cards work when they use green or black mana? I'm guessing it has something to do with Misty Rainforest or Polluted Delta but you don't have a Swamp or Forest in your deck for them to find.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:54
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Abhorrence posted:Someone, Chamale I think, described that deck as the deck you pull out against "someone who claims their deck is unbeatable but does not know what a sideboard is." I wasn't the one who said that, but I like it. I remember when we developed the deck in this thread back in 2013, that was a fun time. The kids these days with their Thassa's Oracle don't know how good they have it - I remember when the win condition was The Mimeoplasm, Triskelion, and Lord of Extinction. NotNut posted:Yeah, I might make another too. Thanks for the recommendation. How does copying the cards work when they use green or black mana? I'm guessing it has something to do with Misty Rainforest or Polluted Delta but you don't have a Swamp or Forest in your deck for them to find. Ragavan makes a Treasure token, which can be sacrificed for one mana of any colour.
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Sep 25, 2021 20:54
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NotNut posted:How does delver work?
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Sep 25, 2021 20:56
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Chamale posted:I wasn't the one who said that, but I like it. I remember when we developed the deck in this thread back in 2013, that was a fun time. Oh right. So what exactly are the Misty Rainforest and Polluted Delta for then?
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Sep 25, 2021 20:59
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Chamale posted:I wasn't the one who said that, but I like it. I remember when we developed the deck in this thread back in 2013, that was a fun time. Don't forget Giant Solifuge out of the sideboard to beat people who boarded in Leyline of sanctity! Yeah I remember you did a lot of the legwork on that deck, probably why I misremembered that way. And yeah, Oracle would have made things much simpler if it was around back then. Wasn't there an alt win con of Angel of Glory's Rise, Azami, and Lab Man, too?
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Sep 25, 2021 21:06
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Abhorrence posted:Yeah I remember you did a lot of the legwork on that deck, probably why I misremembered that way. And yeah, Oracle would have made things much simpler if it was around back then. Wasn't there an alt win con of Angel of Glory's Rise, Azami, and Lab Man, too? I think there was also briefly an Underworld Cerberus version that used a bunch of Elvish/Simian Spirit Guides and a Wild Cantor to cast Laboratory Maniac, then cycled Street Wraith for the win. God, the things people used to do to combo kill...
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Sep 25, 2021 21:18
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NotNut posted:Yeah, I might make another too. Thanks for the recommendation. How does copying the cards work when they use green or black mana? I'm guessing it has something to do with Misty Rainforest or Polluted Delta but you don't have a Swamp or Forest in your deck for them to find. ragavan says "cast" not play, so no lands allowed you use misty/delta to get an island (and if that island is a dual land it can make your other colors). most vintage decks run blue based only duals so the exact fetchland isn't important as long as it'll get an island
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Sep 25, 2021 21:19
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I'm gonna be playing the list below, which is a more tuned version of that cat-circle list I posted before, only I have cut my favorite child Glorious Protector. GloPro is cheap and does powerful/cool stuff (especially with Circle), but it can't block dragons and dies to more removal than I'd like—which sucks, because it has the new "until this leaves play" wording, so if it dies before resolution there's no blink. Now I'm running Burning-Rune Demon: the format is slow enough for it, it's beefy, it gets value regardless of the board state, and it lets you design fun two-card choice packages. I went with Nullpriest + Legion Angel/Liesa. It's been helpful to have a recursion loop that doesn't depend on circle, and the additional untapped fliers make Alrund's Epiphany much less scary. 
rinski fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 00:29
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NotNut posted:Oh right. So what exactly are the Misty Rainforest and Polluted Delta for then? To fetch a dual land and get whatever colour of mana you need. Also, you can cast Brainstorm, put two undesired cards on top of your library, and then crack a fetch to shuffle. Sit on my Jace posted:I think there was also briefly an Underworld Cerberus version that used a bunch of Elvish/Simian Spirit Guides and a Wild Cantor to cast Laboratory Maniac, then cycled Street Wraith for the win. God, the things people used to do to combo kill... The Yup. And one of the first two-card kills it got was reanimating Goblin Dark-Dwellers to cast Haunting Misery.
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Sep 26, 2021 00:31
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NotNut posted:Oh right. So what exactly are the Misty Rainforest and Polluted Delta for then? In vintage you only get one copy of ancestral, but the card selection of 4 ponder 4 brainstorm + fetch means you'll always have exactly what you need when you need it and always just enough lands. A few pages back in the old thread that's how P Sully chided historic for having brainstorm.
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Sep 26, 2021 00:44
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HootTheOwl posted:Over time it's been proven that fetches +brainstorm is basically the most powerful thing a deck can do. You only get one brainstorm and one ponder in vintage, they're restricted too.
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Sep 26, 2021 00:48
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https://youtu.be/7d9-HRLBLrI I love alternate win conditions
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Sep 26, 2021 01:09
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Cactrot posted:You only get one brainstorm and one ponder in vintage, they're restricted too.
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Sep 26, 2021 01:14
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Here's what I've got so far So it's about casting a lot of spells, and stealing stuff with Ragavan and Dack. Thinking of adding cyclonic rifts as more removal and synergy with Dack. Oh and Time Vault and Voltaic Key are just kind of there to show a stupid combo.
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Sep 26, 2021 01:28
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I should also disclaim that I really don't know what I'm doing with decks. I played Vintage casually like ten years ago and have just recently gotten back into Magic
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Sep 26, 2021 01:47
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Some sort of mana-less dredge would be a good contender as well i think. Just break the fundamental rules of the game! https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/Insight/Articles/The-Finest-Vintage-Dredge Dunno if the lists in this article are any good, but it does go pretty in depth on the cards and strategy
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Sep 26, 2021 05:04
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NotNut posted:Here's what I've got so far Vault-Key doesn't work in a WUR deck, you want it in a deck like Paradoxical Outcome that can play Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Tinker. It's really hard to play that deck, though. A good second deck might be Golos Stax. Vintage Dredge is one of the craziest and highest-power decks in existence, but you don't have balanced games with it ever - it's 90% to win Game 1, and then it has to try to win game 2 or 3 against a sideboard.
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Sep 26, 2021 05:15
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Chamale posted:Vault-Key doesn't work in a WUR deck, you want it in a deck like Paradoxical Outcome that can play Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Tinker. It's really hard to play that deck, though. A good second deck might be Golos Stax. Vintage Dredge is one of the craziest and highest-power decks in existence, but you don't have balanced games with it ever - it's 90% to win Game 1, and then it has to try to win game 2 or 3 against a sideboard. Can't you just get the vault and key with the draw stuff and the enlightened tutors? Especially playing them from the graveyard with the horde guy
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Sep 26, 2021 06:39
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NotNut posted:Can't you just get the vault and key with the draw stuff and the enlightened tutors? Especially playing them from the graveyard with the horde guy its not worthwhile to go in on a 2 card combo when you only have 4 ways to find those cards. also, is top still allowed in vintage? do people do top nonsense still? e: here's an example of a vault key deck: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/4311472#paper A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 07:14
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Your decks in Vintage are Dredge, Shops, Fast Combo, and Control. (Control being the "all the good blue cards, plus some other stuff to win the game" decks, where the "other stuff" can vary quite widely). A turn 1 Trinisphere (or even just a Sphere of Resistance) from Shops is one of the big "welcome to Vintage" moments you can show them.
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Sep 26, 2021 07:28
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A big flaming stink posted:its not worthwhile to go in on a 2 card combo when you only have 4 ways to find those cards. also, is top still allowed in vintage? do people do top nonsense still? Uh, what's Top? And thanks
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Sep 26, 2021 16:34
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Are any of you wizards at searching with Scryfall? I want to update my Morophon tribal commander deck. How do I create a search that looks for cards with ANY tribal type and filter it to the last couple years of set releases. I'm looking for new cards that work like Rooftop Storm or Crux of Fate. I already found all the new changelings using this search.
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Sep 26, 2021 16:42
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NotNut posted:Uh, what's Top? And thanks  It's a bullshit card that grinds games to a halt because every loving turn you can spin the top and spend five minutes deciding what the best course of action is
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Sep 26, 2021 16:43
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Spin top. Fetch. Spin top. And if you respond to any of that: spin top again. Also you can't destroy it because: response, tap top hold priority spin top.
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Sep 26, 2021 18:31
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HootTheOwl posted:Also you can't destroy it because
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Sep 26, 2021 18:38
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Kjermzs posted:Are any of you wizards at searching with Scryfall? volunteers have tagged tribal cards using oracletag:tribal but it seems like sets from the last two years haven't been tagged.
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Sep 26, 2021 18:38
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