|
Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Black Beauty |
|
2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
|
4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
|
117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
|
11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
|
54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
|
Potato Salad posted:Sorry I didn't catch that. Lots of places including Australia have managed extremely strict regional lockdowns without collapse, so I assume they can manage it again. They seem to be doing it right now considering how they can't even go meet with unvaccinated friends in the park. Potato Salad posted:Clarification: we're talking about regional lockdown in Australia, but are we also talking about the "literally only military personnel step outside whatsoever," hypothetical, yes? There's a whole lot of room between "nail salons are essential" and "Army delivering food" so I guess you just keep stripping away workplace interactions and stepping up workplace NPIs and vaccination mandates and hopefully delta gives in before the society collapses. edit: anyway I'm riled up and not really adding anything here so I am probably going to just wait until there's actually some news to post about instead of relitigating "NPIs are good, actually" poll plane variant fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Sep 26, 2021 |
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 22:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:22 |
|
|
StrangeThing posted:You're insane. People need to go outside. People need to exercise. Children need to leave their homes. I don’t think there’s a serious risk of infection for vaccinated people to be outdoors. A ubi would fix people needing to work indoors and near each other.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 22:46
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:Side note, a lot of leftists in this forum seem to loving love cops all of a sudden. I don’t think that’s true since the cops are the ones deciding not to enforce the masking laws in America and spreading covid everywhere they go.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 22:46
|
|
|
poll plane variant posted:Lots of places including Australia have managed extremely strict regional lockdowns without collapse, so I assume they can manage it again. They seem to be doing it right now considering how they can't even go meet with unvaccinated friends in the park. A lot of work is deemed essential even under Australian lockdown. No matter how strict your lockdown, food distribution, healthcare, public transit and a host of other related industries that supply those industries need to function. Not to say it's a bad idea, I agree that locking down workplaces should be the first step in any lockdown. But the idea that you can lock down for 3 weeks and magically get COVID to zero when it's widespread in the community is bunk, just because any lockdown necessarily needs to be leaky unless you want people to starve.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 22:49
|
|
|
Antifa Turkeesian posted:I don’t think there’s a serious risk of infection for vaccinated people to be outdoors. Many in this thread seem to believe otherwise. virtualboyCOLOR posted:I don’t think that’s true since the cops are the ones deciding not to enforce the masking laws in America and spreading covid everywhere they go. Literally just someone told me Victoria should put a cop on every street corner and force people to stay inside. What happened to ACAB?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 22:49
|
|
|
Antifa Turkeesian posted:Pay a ubi every month for the duration and people going outside won’t be a problem. Use the national guard to deliver fresh food to every residence each week. It doesn’t have to be dystopia, except for the profit motive thing. logistics aside (who makes the food etc.) I am not sure I agree with the implication that everyone would be happy to stay inside for a year if you just paid them to do it. if nothing else, there are some US jurisdictions where you can get paid to get a shot that takes 15 minutes, does not require you to stay inside for a year, and also prevents you from getting covid, and there are people in those jurisdictions who haven't done it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:01
|
|
|
Tomberforce posted:Some Italian (literal) Facist who lives in Ireland. Not a family member. How the gently caress did he get into the hospital and not immediately get thrown out?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:03
|
|
|
Like the psychological ramifications of staying inside a fixed space are so drastic that loving NASA spends years training people how to deal with it. But come on guys, it's easy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:04
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:You're insane. People need to go outside. People need to exercise. Children need to leave their homes. China’s shutdowns seem quick and then life resumes as normal. Mass test everybody, masks everywhere no exceptions, forcibly quarantine the infected. Better option than what the US and much the rest of the world has (“freedom means you get to play chicken with nature”), and a better option than what Australia is currently doing (lockdowns that don’t actually succeed). Like I said—do you want Australia to be the US? Because with Covid it’s either go big or go home. Vaccines protect minimally against infection and will not control the spread of Covid.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:15
|
|
|
I'll happily agree that China's style of locking down has been effective, but I very much disagree that it is tenable long-term. At some point even China is going to have to learn to live with covid. New Zealand and Australia have already hit the limit of 'zero covid' policies' effectiveness under delta + what their citizens are willing to tolerate. China will end up no different. It is entirely fanciful to imagine a world 5 years from now where China is still enacting harsh lockdowns in pursuit of 'zero covid' while the rest of the world is living with the endemic virus.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:25
|
|
|
Gio posted:Vaccines protect minimally against infection and will not control the spread of Covid. This is straight-up misinformation. Gio posted:China’s shutdowns seem quick and then life resumes as normal. Mass test everybody, masks everywhere no exceptions, forcibly quarantine the infected. Better option than what the US and much the rest of the world has (“freedom means you get to play chicken with nature”), and a better option than what Australia is currently doing (lockdowns that don’t actually succeed). Define "forcibly". We do that right now. If you mean welding people inside their homes, then no, we should not do that. COVID positive people here face enormous fines for leaving their homes. You keep saying you don't want to Australia to end up like the US, to which I would say our vaccination rates will inevitably be higher than yours, so we won't. In fact in many places our vaccination rates are already higher. StrangeThing fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Sep 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:28
|
|
|
How are u posted:I'll happily agree that China's style of locking down has been effective, but I very much disagree that it is tenable long-term. At some point even China is going to have to learn to live with covid. New Zealand and Australia have already hit the limit of 'zero covid' policies' effectiveness under delta + what their citizens are willing to tolerate. China will end up no different. It is entirely fanciful to imagine a world 5 years from now where China is still enacting harsh lockdowns in pursuit of 'zero covid' while the rest of the world is living with the endemic virus. Ok can you please stop it with the “endemic” and “live with covid” bullshit that Blue MAGA (secret Great Barrington Declaration acolytes) like Monica Gandhi say all the time? Living with Covid has translated into “giving up” by the same ghouls that have wanted to give up since March of 2020. Actually living with covid would not translate to pushing out hospital system to its breaking point and ignoring thousands of dead bodies daily.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:31
|
|
|
Gio posted:Ok can you please stop it with the “endemic” and “live with covid” bullshit that Blue MAGA (secret Great Barrington Declaration acolytes) like Monica Gandhi say all the time? Living with Covid has translated into “giving up” by the same ghouls that have wanted to give up since March of 2020. Actually living with covid would not translate to pushing out hospital system to its breaking point and ignoring thousands of dead bodies daily. "Living with COVID" looks different according to what country you live in. In Australia, it means reaching at least 80% of the population being double vaccinated. America isn't anywhere near that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:Side note, a lot of leftists in this forum seem to loving love cops all of a sudden. drat dude. Lots of commies seem to like the military when its the Red Army. You truly are a leftism understander.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:37
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:This is straight-up misinformation. StrangeThing posted:Define "forcibly". We do that right now. If you mean welding people inside their homes, then no, we should not do that. COVID positive people here face enormous fines for leaving their homes. And I don’t care about Australia. I’m asking you what you want. Do you want Covid to spread unabated? Because you’re on that path right now and you’re in lockdown. The current vaccines alone won’t control the spread of Covid.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:42
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:"Living with COVID" looks different according to what country you live in. Every single person in the country could be vaccinated and Covid would still spread. No country can vaccinate their way out of this like they thought they could. Unless you booster every 2 months (according to data from Israel that sterilizing immunity lasts for about 2 months after booster 3) it’s not going away. I realize that after a lot of long quarantine and hard work people are grasping for a magic solution, but there isn’t one. The only hope is a combination of vaccines, NPIs and transient lockdowns. Otherwise the result is the collapse of the healthcare industry. Not just doctors and nurses, but supplies that are running out and not easily replenishable given the current supply chain issues. This is akin to climate change. We’re at a point where if we keep going on this reckless path, it will spell disaster.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:43
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:"Living with COVID" looks different according to what country you live in. Please, describe a country that has controlled delta cases via vaccination. Also, good luck hitting 80% of your population with 19 percent under 14.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:45
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:"Living with COVID" looks different according to what country you live in. Singapore is 80%+ vaccinated and experiencing a significant wave of Delta infections.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:47
|
|
|
Living with covid is going to look a lot better when nations and societies are sitting at 90%+ vaccinations, and we can do all the kids. It's definitely going to take a while to get to that level in the US, that's for sure.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:48
|
|
|
Gio posted:Singapore is 80%+ vaccinated and experiencing a significant wave of Delta infections. Infections, sure, but infections are going to be entirely normal. Deaths and the ability of healthcare systems to cope are the metrics we need to focus on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:49
|
|
|
Blitter posted:Please, describe a country that has controlled delta cases via vaccination. The COVID vaccines do not eliminate transmission but they absolutely do reduce it. This is fact. Considering that our 12-15 year olds have been getting vaccinated in absolute record numbers I have no problem in seeing us reaching over 80% when a vaccine for children is approved. Gio posted:No it isn’t. Take a look at Israel, the UK, Singapore. Take a look at the US. Anyone denying waning of vaccine induced immunity, or the significantly decreased efficacy the vaccines have against Delta re: preventing symptomatic infections is, at this point, no better than an anti-vaxxer. Bullshit. Vaccine immunity does indeed wane but the Israeli data is hotly debated in the scientific community as to how much, and who it affects. COVID vaccines do not eliminate transmission but they do reduce it. Again, this is fact. quote:And I don’t care about Australia. I’m asking you what you want. Do you want Covid to spread unabated? Because you’re on that path right now and you’re in lockdown. The current vaccines alone won’t control the spread of Covid. No, but I'm not in charge of the government. Right now the state and federal governments are not able to completely eliminate COVID and given what it would take for them to do that, I don't want them to. nexous posted:Every single person in the country could be vaccinated and Covid would still spread. No country can vaccinate their way out of this like they thought they could. Unless you booster every 2 months (according to data from Israel that sterilizing immunity lasts for about 2 months after booster 3) it’s not going away. This is a ridiculous interpretation of the Israeli data that, again, is hotly debated within the scientific community. I shouldn't need to explain that even though immunity continues to wane it doesn't disappear entirely. It's not like you're back to zero after six months. quote:I realize that after a lot of long quarantine and hard work people are grasping for a magic solution, but there isn’t one. The only hope is a combination of vaccines, NPIs and transient lockdowns. All of which will exist in Australia? We will continue to vaccinate people and there will be health restrictions like QR codes, density quotas, vaccine passports, etc. All of these are good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:50
|
|
|
Gio posted:Singapore is 80%+ vaccinated and experiencing a significant wave of Delta infections. I shouldn't have to explain this but infections are going to happen. Deaths and hospitalizations are what you want to focus on. And the situation report in Singapore suggests their death rate is...something like 0.15%? That's roughly on par with a flu in a given year.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:53
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:This is a ridiculous interpretation of the Israeli data that, again, is hotly debated within the scientific community. I shouldn't need to explain that even though immunity continues to wane it doesn't disappear entirely. It's not like you're back to zero after six months. I am only citing STERILIZING immunity, e.g. no breakthroughs. Absolutely the vaccine lasts much longer in terms of reduced severity and chance of death. If everyone got vaccinated the death rate would drop significantly, and that’s a very important step. The vaccines are fantastic, please do not interpret my starements in any other way. But without constant boosters, it will still spread and mutate and reinfect people every few months. This may be fine or it may be catastrophic depending on how you feel about long Covid, heart, lung and brain damage.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
nexous posted:I am only citing STERILIZING immunity, e.g. no breakthroughs. Absolutely the vaccine lasts much longer in terms of reduced severity and chance of death. If everyone got vaccinated the death rate would drop significantly, and that’s a very important step. The vaccines are fantastic, please do not interpret my starements in any other way. But without constant boosters, it will still spread and mutate and reinfect people every few months. Sure, sterilizing immunity is not possible with the current vaccines, right. But you're also taking the Israeli data too far and saying that we need boosters every few months, when the scientific community isn't sure whether that's what the data say. quote:This may be fine or it may be catastrophic depending on how you feel about long Covid, heart, lung and brain damage. Sure. Again, all of which are hotly debated.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 23:59
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:That's roughly on par with a flu in a given year.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:00
|
|
|
enki42 posted:A lot of work is deemed essential even under Australian lockdown. No matter how strict your lockdown, food distribution, healthcare, public transit and a host of other related industries that supply those industries need to function. Clearly a lot of people here do white collar work from home and don't grasp this, as exemplified by the idea that you could e.g. just have the National Guard distribute food to everyone's homes. National Guardsmen are human beings like anyone else: they don't always wear their masks properly, they socialise, they have families to go home and see sometimes, they smoke, they cough, they ignore symptoms they think are just a cold. That's without even going into the truck drivers, the warehouse workers, the processing plant operators, the fruit pickers, etc ad infinitum. There have been significant Delta outbreaks in Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra and Auckland - all previously COVID-zero jurisdictions in policy and in practice - and not one of those places has been able to drive its infections back down to zero even with the strictest of lockdowns. Auckland's is even stricter than Australia's (no takeaway) and they still appear to have plateaued again after coming down from the loftier heights. Canberra's has hovered at what must be an incredibly frustrating 10-20 a day without ever dropping below that, for about a month or more now. Sydney has only just appeared to have passed its peak, probably due to hitting higher vaxx rates. To my knowledge no COVID-zero jurisdiction anywhere in the world has experienced a significant Delta outbreak and then managed to drive it back down to elimination again. Perth and Brisbane both had positive cases spring up and managed to stamp them out with short sharp lockdowns - I think there's an element of luck at the beginning of any outbreak. But once it gets its hooks in, it's there to stay. There are just too many fallible human beings involved in every step of the essential worker chain, and no UBI or strict lockdown is enough to stop it spreading through all those shelf stackers, drivers, garbagemen, cops, doctors and nurses.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:03
|
|
|
I’m not advocating for boosters every few months. It’s not a plausible solution. I’m advocating for vaccinations in conjunction with NPIs and transient lockdowns to keep cases low until we understand the full ramifications of getting a minor to medium case of Covid. If in 10 years everyone’s all messed up from recurring Covid infections, that is terrible. If in 6 months we prove that long Covid is a minor thing and the long term damage from an infection is minimal, then great, vaccinate and live your life like it’s 2019. Until then I feel like we should all err on the side of extreme caution.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:03
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:I shouldn't have to explain this but infections are going to happen. Deaths and hospitalizations are what you want to focus on. Ok, let’s focus on them. In the US, it’s very possible that up to 25% of the thousands dying daily are fully vaccinated. A similar percentage are being hospitalized, give or take 5%. I think the continuum of “death or hospitalization” is a poor one considering (a) Long Covid and (b) how severe “mild” cases actually are.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
Additionally, we went from wild type to delta in 14 months. Keeping cases low is imperative so we don’t end up with an even worse or vaccine evading variant.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
nexous posted:I’m not advocating for boosters every few months. It’s not a plausible solution. I’m advocating for vaccinations in conjunction with NPIs and transient lockdowns to keep cases low until we understand the full ramifications of getting a minor to medium case of Covid. "Vaccinations in conjunction with NPIs and transient lockdowns to keep cases low" is precisely Australian policy. Half the country is under lockdown with both case numbers and vaccination rates higher than anyone in Europe or North America would think reasonable for a lockdown. And luckily for us, the world's first highly vaccinated winter will be our summer, so we don't have to conduct that experiment ourselves.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
freebooter posted:"Vaccinations in conjunction with NPIs and transient lockdowns to keep cases low" is precisely Australian policy. Half the country is under lockdown with both case numbers and vaccination rates higher than anyone in Europe or North America would think reasonable for a lockdown. Absolutely. Australia is doing a hell of a job even if they did let 0 Covid slip. I wish I could emigrate there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:09
|
|
|
Gio posted:Ok, let’s focus on them. In the US, it’s very possible that up to 25% of the thousands dying daily are fully vaccinated. A similar percentage are being hospitalized, give or take 5%. Breakthrough case reports from various states show that the risk of dying is dramatically reduced. Let's take Oregon as an example. quote:"During the week of September 12–September 18, there were 11,994 cases of COVID-19. 9,216 (76.8%) were unvaccinated and 2,778 (23.2%) were vaccine breakthrough cases. The median age of breakthrough cases was 49 years. 84 (3%) breakthrough cases were residents of care facilities, senior living communities or other congregate living settings. 700 (25.2%) cases were 65 or older. There were 68 (2.4%) cases aged 12-17" quote:To date, 4.5% of all known breakthrough cases have been hospitalized (n=1036), and only 0.9% have died (n=204). The median age of the people who died is 81 (range: 36-101). As for long covid, there is no scientific consensus on how severe long covid is, or to be frank, if it even exists. Studies that examined people with a loss of grey matter and decline in cognitive function haven't successfully proven any causation, especially as other types of viruses create similar effects with no permanent damage. Additionally, the number of people who cite fatigue, etc, was just as high in people who received a placebo vaccine during trials. The point being that these symptoms are vague and they require more study. That doesn't mean we should throw caution to the wind, it's still an area that needs to be studied. freebooter posted:"Vaccinations in conjunction with NPIs and transient lockdowns to keep cases low" is precisely Australian policy. Half the country is under lockdown with both case numbers and vaccination rates higher than anyone in Europe or North America would think reasonable for a lockdown. I don't think people in this thread understand that we - in Victoria at least - are not able to visit each other until 80% of the state is double vaxxed. If you can't visit other vaxxed people then, when can you? nexous posted:Additionally, we went from wild type to delta in 14 months. Keeping cases low is imperative so we don’t end up with an even worse or vaccine evading variant. Sure. And that's what Australia is trying to do by increasing vaccinations along with other health measures. Edit: Not only is Victoria mandating vaccines for a lot of normal activities, but it's also ordered over 50,000 air purifiers for schools and masks will continue to be mandated for indoor areas for the foreseeable future. This isn't "open biden" or whatever the gently caress. I think the American experience has traumatised people to call for the harshest response possible. I get it. But you can absolutely move back to something resembling normal while protecting the vast majority of the community. StrangeThing fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Sep 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:21
|
|
|
Alright I just got back from some leisure time and it looks like the thread has gone from a 2 star spice level to more like a 4. I'm going to ask you all to take it down a notch again and offer a gentle reminder that, yes, it's going to be difficult for people from two different realities to see eye to eye. Personally I get where StrangeThing is coming from, because we've been able to see people outside, go on walks, visit parks, etc. and feel pretty safe since we're a) outside, and b) fully vaccinated. What purpose does keeping parks closed serve, if they're not packed in like a music festival? e: And that seems like a reasonable stance on long covid, albeit not one that I personally am willing to test and will continue to do every loving thing I can to not get covid and risk it. Your point about vague and inconsistent symptoms contributing to current knowledge about long covid is a good one and more research is still needed. But for me personally I'm going to treat it like leaded gasoline 2.0, and continue to avoid it like... Oh I dunno, something bad? Like, a plague for instance. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Sep 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:24
|
|
|
Gio posted:I mean, as an outside observer it looks as though Victoria and NSW if not Australia altogether will eventually lose control of outbreaks and NPIs will gradually be lifted as the government just gives up—which is what has happened in every country that hasn’t pursued a Zero Covid model. Zero Covid is still well within reach, but—sadly—I don’t see Victoria or NSW succeeding. Zero COVID in just one province or country via NPIs is essentially impossible without semi-permanent lockdown. It's too contagious. To make zero COVID a realistic possibility via NPIs alone, without sterilizing immunity, everywhere needs to be seriously pursuing zero COVID at the same time. Otherwise, the places that didn't pursue zero COVID will quickly reinfect the places that did. Even quarantining travelers to block transmission from outside has proven to be difficult to maintain, with Australia and NZ seeing plenty of breaches - each one carrying the risk of reintroducing the virus to the community and triggering new lockdowns. In general, people will put up with lockdowns and stuff for a few months as a temporary emergency measure to get rid of COVID. They might grumble, but they'll deal with it. That's why lockdowns ever worked at all: most people voluntarily went along with them. If politicians had had the guts to call for thorough lockdowns quickly at the beginning and maintain them until numbers were essentially zero, COVID could probably have been just about eliminated within those few months. But now we're a year and a half into COVID with no end in sight, and voluntary compliance is starting to crumble. Loosening restrictions on things that don't carry significant risk, like going for a jog, does not automatically send things down a slippery slope to packed sports stadiums and indoor dining.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:25
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:Sure. And that's what Australia is trying to do by increasing vaccinations along with other health measures. As I said, Australia, China, NZ are doing great jobs. I’m just screaming into the void to espouse my frustration with my own country, the United States.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:25
|
|
|
Gio posted:Ok, let’s focus on them. In the US, it’s very possible that up to 25% of the thousands dying daily are fully vaccinated. A similar percentage are being hospitalized, give or take 5%. And Trump must have won the 2020 election because he received more votes than any previous presidential candidate. "This many covid deaths are fully vaccinated" without context tells you nothing at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:27
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:I don't think people in this thread understand that we - in Victoria at least - are not able to visit each other until 80% of the state is double vaxxed. If you can't visit other vaxxed people then, when can you? At 90% or once uptake actually plateaus, whichever is sooner. Which you might reasonably argue is too strict, I'm just not a fan of the government's "if not then, when" talking point when there are very obviously more numbers that come after the number 80. I haven't actually kept up to date with Victoria's roadmap, partly because none of my close friends live in an overlapping 10km bubble with me anyway - have we actually set a threshhold for meeting up with other (fully vaccinated but as if they'll be able to enforce that) people outdoors?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:35
|
|
|
freebooter posted:At 90% or once uptake actually plateaus, whichever is sooner. Which you might reasonably argue is too strict, I'm just not a fan of the government's "if not then, when" talking point when there are very obviously more numbers that come after the number 80. This is the current roadmap: October 26 (70% double vaxxed) - 25km travel limit - No restriction on reasons to leave - No private gatherings - Up to 20 vaccinated people may meet outdoors, masks required - Must work from home - Childcare for children with fully vaxxed parents - School begins on a staggered basis - Only take-away food, no outdoor or indoor dining November 5 (80% double vaxxed) - 5 visitors allowed to the home Plus a lot of other poo poo. The full roadmap is here: https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-09/210919%20-%20Roadmap-Regional.pdf
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:39
|
|
|
StrangeThing posted:Breakthrough case reports from various states show that the risk of dying is dramatically reduced. Let's take Oregon as an example. quote:Between Aug. 9 and Sept. 8, 25% of the newly confirmed COVID-19 cases were people who were fully vaccinated, as were 25% of those hospitalized with COVID and 19% of the COVID-19 deaths, when compared with all COVID cases. Or Illinois (53% fully vaxxed). https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/vaccine-breakthrough Breakthrough deaths are on the rise and represent about 20-25% of deaths, as of late. Or look at individual hospital data from the ICU. https://twitter.com/umichmedicine/status/1437517701069656073?s=21 https://twitter.com/stjoes_health/status/1438605444432470020?s=21 Gio fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Sep 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:22 |
|
|
James Garfield posted:And Trump must have won the 2020 election because he received more votes than any previous presidential candidate. "This many covid deaths are fully vaccinated" without context tells you nothing at all. I have receipts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 00:43
|
|