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I think it's very important to acknowledge that the first Matrix was made when the Internet had not been colonized by tech monopolies and still appeared to be a new frontier of possibility; economically and politically we were at the end of Frances Fujiyama's "End of History", where nearly every societal mechanism of control pretty much agreed that the future was endless neoliberal tinkering and globalization. Global warming was a blip that no one took seriously and fascists were guys you saw on the History Channel's endless WW2 shows. The overall feel was an extremely ossified "real world" with an exciting and raucous "digital space" that could be used to escape it. Of course the Wachowskis, being a couple of people who presented as part of the hierarchy but revealed themselves later to identify with the fringes, saw some of the downsides in the system and made a very effective movie about how it exerted control and how they could imagine it cracking, which resonates with pretty much anyone underserved or brutalized by the status quo. Also, it was legit brilliant to flip the audience's expectations in 99 and make the digital world the prison and the real world the escape, but further still to reverse it and make the "real world" a burnt out hellscape and the neoliberal "paradise" the illusion, and then furthermore have the literal agent of the system say "you could have had something better, but you chose this crummy 20th century paradigm for yourself". Which is very funny when you're talking to a guy who was born after all that poo poo happened and had no say in any of it. Something that I haven't seen mentioned both the Resistance and the Agents are in effect part of a "secret war" that we're all a part of but totally unaware of. This was actually a big time trope in the 90s - think Vampire: the Masquerade (or really most of the World of Darkness in general), Harry fuckin' Potter was published in 1997, etc. It resonated because it felt true. You can see that people were pretty much resigned to the New World Order appearing invincible on the surface, but underneath was where the real action happened. A sort of psychological escape from the overwhelming dominance of an unsatisfying but hegemonic political ideology. When the people realized that it wasn't working but wasn't going to give up power and would literally decay around them, we got the huge wave of zombie films in the 00s. In my opinion. Edit: also I find the idea of seeing the "original" Matrix 2 script fascinating because it was literally shot less than a year after 9/11, when America had gone - for lack of a better phrase - completely reactionary. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Sep 27, 2021 |
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Sep 27, 2021 20:45
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The Smith of the sequels isn't really a freak occurrence, right? His superpower is actually the one all agents already have: overwriting himself on top of people in order to enforce the status quo. He's just realized he doesn't have to release his grip on them after the fact. He's not exactly doing something new so much as doing something that was there all along too much, taking the agents' modus operandi to its logical extreme. Among other things, Smith is a manifestation of the fact that a system like the matrix (and, by extension, the "end of history" liberal consensus of the 90s)(edit: I wrote this before I saw Megaman's Jockstrap's post immediately above mine and I'm glad we're on the same wavelength) is fundamentally unstable and cannot last. On one hand, it's dominated by the infinitely hungry and relentlessly homogenizing force of capital that will not and cannot rest until it's subsumed all human activity into itself. On the other hand, it gives rise to constant uprisings, rebellions, liberation struggles, etc. because it can't truly satisfy people and people won't accept it. No matter how hard the technocrats try, these contraposed forces can't simply be stably balanced against each other forever. The contradiction will resolve itself one way or the other.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:49
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel like smith is another example where there is seeds of a strong theme that kinda just wilts and falls flat. Smith basically gets a piece of bugged code that lets him take over multiple bodies at once, instead of possessing people like a "normal" agent. Like most programs seem to be, he is already functionally immortal and wasn't actually killed when Neo ki blasted him. Like other programs, he evolves free will and showed this in the first movie, but his original purpose of being a boot stomping on a human face forever taints his evolution. Like Neo, he wants freedom from systems of control and oppression. Unlike Neo, he hates everyone and everything, and is at minimum a satanic figure. He will destroy the Matrix in the way that some posters in this thread think Morpheus may have (I also do not think that is Morpheus' game). After creation is effectively ended, Smith can finally do whatever he wants (Die? Create life in his own image? Up to him, he will be all-powerful in both the physical and digital realities).
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Sep 27, 2021 20:52
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Sodomy Hussein posted:
The game is/was pretty buggy on PC. One of the funniest glitches had Neo talking to someone during training mode, and the guy finished the cutscene with "Now watch this", and at that exact moment the game poo poo itself and changed his skin-texture (and a chunk of the wall) to static black as he just stared at Neo.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:53
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I assume Morpheus was in fact prepared to destroy the matrix at immense human cost, because that fits with his characterization as both an apocalyptic cult leader but also a die-hard radical insurrectionist. What, you think you're gonna get free by asking nicely? A revolution isn't a tea party.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:55
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porfiria posted:I think the idea is that Smith is entirely nihilistic and suicidal, and he wants to prove Neo's belief in his own existential freedom to choose/act is dumb and doomed by the iron laws of nature. Yeah, I mean, it’s just that it laps at some coherent themes but just never gets to it. In a movie with themes of conformity and nonconformity it’s funny the main antagonist has the power to make everyone just like him but that just really never intersects. He seems to be able to replicate more because that is a techno thing for a virus to do than some idea that the ultimate end of a system of control is direct totalitarian control of the individual. The system didn’t even like smith, smith didn’t even want that power.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:56
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It's also a pretty obvious contrast to have The One fight The Many, especially in a series where the enemy is everyone else anyway
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Sep 27, 2021 20:58
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The fact that Smith doesn't try to explain why it's good that he's doing what he's doing, but simply does it because it's his nature and he's no longer bound by any rules, is actually better characterization than if he had some philosophical objection to free will or commitment to solipsism or something. It's like how the xenomorph never stops and turns to the camera to explain that it's hungry or something. To express this differently: the idea that "totalitarianism" happens because certain people hold certain ideas is actually an ideological claim. The Matrix sequels aren't mistakenly failing to articulate that claim, they are depicting a different view of politics and society.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:00
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Ferrinus posted:I assume Morpheus was in fact prepared to destroy the matrix at immense human cost, because that fits with his characterization as both an apocalyptic cult leader but also a die-hard radical insurrectionist. What, you think you're gonna get free by asking nicely? A revolution isn't a tea party. If he wanted to do that, it wouldn't be that hard. They can already get physical access to the "crops" and have EMP weapons. They could probably wreck most or all of the Matrix in a day if the idea was to slash and burn all the people who Morpheus deemed beyond salvation by the means he is giving Neo, an incredibly mentally and physically stressful boot camp. Morpheus is looking for a messiah to usher in a new age and give everyone the choice, not to destroy the Matrix.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:03
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Sodomy Hussein posted:If he wanted to do that, it wouldn't be that hard. They can already get physical access to the "crops" and have EMP weapons. They could probably wreck most or all of the Matrix in a day if the idea was to slash and burn all the people who Morpheus deemed beyond salvation by the means he is giving Neo, an incredibly mentally and physically stressful boot camp. Morpheus is looking for a messiah to usher in a new age and give everyone the choice, not to destroy the Matrix. Oh yeah I don't think he wants to destroy the matrix by destroying humanity or something. I think he wants to "destroy" the matrix in the same way that functionally speaking many revolutionary movements aim to destroy the societies they're rebelling against, which is to say through radical, violent conflict that will regrettably but inevitably come with casualties. I don't think the mythology of The One is that The One can simply force the machines to peacefully surrender through a silent act of will, but rather be the tip of the spear whose main length is an awakened and radicalized humanity.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:06
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Cypher was right, the real world is lovely and possibly irrecoverable, everyone should go into the Matrix but it should be democratized and programed to give everyone BJs or at least HJs.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:12
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If we take the Matrix Online as canon, then I'd totally believe that Morpheus would be willing to take down the Matrix even if it cost human lives. TMO had him do plant bombs that showed the matrix's code to regular people who weren't ready to accept that they're living in a simulation, cause people to reject the Matrix and get ejected from the system. He was basically force-feeding people red pills by the fist-full.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:12
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That matrix online version of Morpheus bombing doesn't sound like matrix 1 Morpheus who is all about people choosing on their own. I havent seen the sequels in a bit, but I cant remember him being characterized as one who would do terrorist attacks.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:25
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checkplease posted:That matrix online version of Morpheus bombing doesn't sound like matrix 1 Morpheus who is all about people choosing on their own. I havent seen the sequels in a bit, but I cant remember him being characterized as one who would do terrorist attacks. In the opening of the Matrix it's stated the Resistance murders innocent hackers who get too close to the truth.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:28
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LRADIKAL posted:But... what if the matrix was about pizza instead?
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Sep 27, 2021 21:29
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porfiria posted:In the opening of the Matrix it's stated the Resistance murders innocent hackers who get too close to the truth. Going to have to remind me of what you are talking about. I just watched this film again last week and don't think anything like that is explicitly said. Looking up the first 5 minutes on Youtube, Cypher and Trinity are discussing Trinity watching Neo. Cypher states that "We're going to kill him, you understand that?" I guess with this just this dialogue you could call that a threat to murder, but the rest of the context of the film just shows how this more of a warning to the dangers on being in the resistance and learning the truth. Watching Neo has brought the agents to him as we see in a good 10 minutes later in the film. And Morpheus then tells Neo that if the agents knew why Morpheus has been watching Neo, then the Agents would have killed Neo. So no I don't think they just murder hackers. Police, yes. But hackers no.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:52
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checkplease posted:I don't know anything about the early matrix reloaded drafts (though they sound interesting), but the Morpheus a presented in the first Matrix does not come off as someone who would knowingly force billions out of the matrix. There’s a big, lingering ‘plot hole’ at the end of the Matrix trilogy: “The Oracle prophesized [The One’s] return and that his coming would hail the destruction of the Matrix, end the war, bring freedom to our people.” It’s easy to forget this because it’s pure expositon from the start of Matrix 1, but the Oracle predicted that the Matrix would be destroyed, and this unambiguously does not happen. The Oracle must be incorrect/lying, or referring to some unknown event in the far future. The part about destroying the matrix was quietly dropped in the sequels - arguably retconned out. Morpheus in 2 & 3 speaks nebulously about “ending the war”, but gives little or no indication of what that entails. He seems to believe that Neo will just kill all the bad squid machines without any consequence. That’s why Morpheus’ goals are displaced onto the Architect: “either you destroy the matrix, killing pretty much everyone, or you’re a machine collaborator.”
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Sep 27, 2021 22:00
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The pre 9/11 Reloaded draft is bonkers, very fun and I can't believe I'd never read it before. https://www.matrixfans.net/movies/the-matrix-reloaded/the-matrix-reloaded-early-script-draft/
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Sep 27, 2021 22:47
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Necrothatcher posted:The pre 9/11 Reloaded draft is bonkers, very fun and I can't believe I'd never read it before.
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Sep 27, 2021 23:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The sequels are generally a huge narrative departure from Matrix 1, which is why it's difficult to talk about the series as a whole. Matrix 1 famously ended with Neo promising to show humanity "a world without you [the dark machine-god]", and then he just... doesn't. Sucks that 9/11 ruined the plot of the matrix sequels  Aaliyah was gonna be in it too
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Sep 27, 2021 23:41
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Quickly scanning, that script is definitely a very different movie. It also doesn't seem as much like the Morpheus who is all about choices. And like others pointed out, the resistance ships could already attack the human fields if that is what they wanted to do. But definitely could have been an interesting film. The morality of killing all the soldiers/police is addressed, and the agents making their own Neo essentially (which would be become super smith in final film) sounds fun. In the sequels, Morpheus is definitely not written as having a plan after finding the One. As stated, the oracle told him this should lead to freedom of all from the matrix, but he does not know the details. As is usual strategy, he goes to ask the Oracle. But the Oracle can definitely lie. She is part of the matrix system after all. So her telling Morpheus that the one will destroy the matrix may simply telling Morpheus and others what they needs to hear. She is shown to have her own plan with her manipulation of trinity, which is apparently a first for the cycles.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:05
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bushisms.txt posted:Is this the one where the brawl is literal mountains of bodies, and it's like another neo because the one I read back in the day ruled. That’s the one, yup. The thing to keep in mind is that, canonically, the mountain of dead bodies remains Morpheus’s plan in the actually-completed films. Even if he himself is in denial about it, “freeing everyone’s mind” would necessarily kill billions because what are they going to eat? Who’s going to rehabilitate them? Archer666 posted:He was basically force-feeding people red pills by the fist-full. In Matrix 2, Neo’s goal - given to him by Morpheus and the Oracle - is to reach the machine mainframe, where Morpheus believes the prophecy will be fulfilled. If we ignore the retcon, that means Morpheus is attempting to destroy the matrix and cut the “input/output carrier signal” - which is exactly what the literal red pill does. Side effects of the literal red pill already include death - but those are arguably the lucky ones, given the threat of starvation. Morpheus later implies a high risk of permanent psychosis. Morpheus’ plan is like the global equivalent of dumping shitloads of LSD into the water supply. checkplease posted:But the Oracle can definitely lie. She is part of the matrix system after all. So her telling Morpheus that the one will destroy the matrix may simply telling Morpheus and others what they needs to hear. She is shown to have her own plan with her manipulation of trinity, which is apparently a first for the cycles. I don’t recall any other point where Oracle lies in the movies. The character’s whole gimmick is that she speaks in riddles that are often designed to be misunderstood, but with the correct answer eventually revealed. (It’s also an important plot point that Architect doesn’t lie.) SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 01:29
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Lying is probably too strong, but she does omit information. And as you stated, she speaks in riddles left to interpretation. So its very easy for Morpheus to want to interpret a concept like freedom or the end of this system as the destruction of the matrix. But that's just speculation. We know she has her own agency though and seems to get the harmony end she desired. And as Morpheus tells Neo, she will tell people what they need to hear. Other thought I had while reading that script. Do we ever see an agent unmorph besides death? Can they just unpossess a body and that person will be ok? Or does the act kill the host.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:58
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checkplease posted:The morality of killing all the soldiers/police is addressed This is something that does really bug me about the franchise -- nobody ever brings this up other than the bit of dialog in the Woman in Red training mission about "everyone can be an enemy". With civilians being overtaken by Agents, it comes off as tragic...but then you get into shootouts with cops/military personnel...and yes, ACAB and all, but there's a layer beyond that when you think about the fact that these cops are ALSO being lied to by the system. I guess its not too dissimilar from the real world where cops and military get all the propaganda about whichever Other group they're fighting against while being shining glorious defenders, and thus justify the mass slaughter of Black people at home and brown people abroad...but via The Matrix making the lie more...literal, its a bit of a disconnect for me, especially in the lobby shootout in the first film. I know Trinity beats up cops in the opening of first one, the staff at the power plant in Reloaded, but those sequences have a lot of hand-to-hand fighting and Batman Arkham style "non-lethal" takedowns. But that lobby shootout is just open slaughter. jivjov fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 02:23
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As George Jackson points out, making revolution is against the law. If a group attempting to bring down the prevailing order isn't willing to shoot down cops and soldiers on principle (rather than, like, assessing that they are currently too weak to do so and need to use other power-building strategies for the moment) then they aren't taking their job seriously.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:36
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checkplease posted:Lying is probably too strong, but she does omit information. And as you stated, she speaks in riddles left to interpretation. So its very easy for Morpheus to want to interpret a concept like freedom or the end of this system as the destruction of the matrix. But that's just speculation. in the draft script, the agent does unpossess a body leaving them with a shot-to-bits hand and, presumably, some kind of madness from it all.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:36
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Can an agent possess a monkey
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Sep 28, 2021 02:38
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Ferrinus posted:As George Jackson points out, making revolution is against the law. If a group attempting to bring down the prevailing order isn't willing to shoot down cops and soldiers on principle (rather than, like, assessing that they are currently too weak to do so and need to use other power-building strategies for the moment) then they aren't taking their job seriously. At least insofar as The Matrix is concerned though, the cops and military inside the matrix aren't actually the prevailing order. Hell, we even see in the very opening of first film that the cops don't even get along with the agents at all. They're being used as part of the control just as much as anyone else still plugged in to the simulation is.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:39
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porfiria posted:Can an agent possess a monkey
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Sep 28, 2021 02:48
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jivjov posted:At least insofar as The Matrix is concerned though, the cops and military inside the matrix aren't actually the prevailing order. Hell, we even see in the very opening of first film that the cops don't even get along with the agents at all. They're being used as part of the control just as much as anyone else still plugged in to the simulation is. Well, first off, agents are people, too. Like, they are sapient beings with names and faces and feelings and so on, and they're the actual cops of the matrix itself. So if you're not willing to kill those guys on the basis of their interiority you can just go home right now. Second off, the apparent cops of the matrix, our boys in blue, clearly obey and report to the agents even when they aren't being directly possessed by them. They're going to fight to defend the same thing the agents fight to defend, namely the oppressive social order of the matrix. So if you're not willing to kill them even when they're not possessed, that means you're willing to let them defend the matrix. Now, they're just plain weaker and less dangerous than agents, so you can afford to karate kick cops rather than shoot them sometimes, but if you're not willing to shoot them ever then it means you value something above freeing people from the matrix. Third off, Morpheus is correct to point out that anyone still plugged in, even if they're not an armed agent of the virtual (whether the really-existing machine state or the simulated human state the machines oversee), can and will summon armed agents of the state against you if they see you acting out. People can become agents (or just call the cops) at the drop of a hat. Revolution is violent; people will die, both yours and theirs, unavoidably. Obviously, no one wants to just kill civilians or "civilians" (non-agents who may still be cops, soldiers, etc) randomly or pointlessly, but if you've made a commitment to actual violent rather than passive resistance to the matrix then you understand you're fighting for something bigger than any one life and are sometimes going to have to endanger or even kill perfectly normal people. Fourth off, even if we don't know we're in the matrix, we do know we're in the hegemonic capitalism of the 90s, which brutally enforces racism, homophobia, poverty, etc. There are beggars and sick people in the matrix. There are random police shootings in the matrix. The police are the last (domestic) line of defense for this grotesquely unequal and intrinsically violent system of inequality. So if you're a revolutionary concerned with freedom and justice in general—even one who doesn't realize they're trapped in a computer simulation—then you should understand that cops are your enemy and treat them accordingly. Fifth off, even if you don't know you're in the matrix but do know you're fighting for a revolutionary change in social relations, you know that's going to have casualties both in the direct fight to establish it and in the followup struggles to defend and work out the kinks in whatever the new order ends up being. Will there be illnesses, injuries, food shortages, and other calamities in whatever experimental, made-up-as-we-go society is going to postdate '90s capitalism? Yes. Does that mean we shouldn't do it? Maybe, but that's kind of a weird stance to take because it means you're okay with all the violence and suffering that '90s capitalism will cause if it's just allowed to roll on indefinitely. Basically, I don't think you can fault Morpheus and the rest of his resistance for not being consistent.
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Sep 28, 2021 03:11
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It’s easy to forget that, in the Subway fight, it’s a homeless dude who ends up ‘possessed by a demon’ and then dead on the tracks. And, like, hold on; what was it that Morpheus said? “...many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.” Is this homeless dude really “hopelessly dependent on the system?” Like, what, has he been collecting too much change? Agents can pop out of literally everyone, so what’s with this moralism about “many people” being mentally weak? This is the dark side of Morpheus’ anti-welfare rhetoric, and another example of how he’s wrong. It’s easy to side with Morpheus when he lists enemies like cops and Karen McWhitey, but that list also includes literally every single leftist on Earth. It presumably includes literal babies. Also, on the flipside, it means that Jeff fuckin Bezos can join the club and learn kung-fu if he just takes the ‘shrooms. And, as we see with Cypher, it’s incredibly foolish to assume that the ‘unplugged’ are automatically good. This leads to one of the biggest logical pitfalls of the story: there’s absolutely nothing stopping the robots from uploading superpowers into anyone they want. Once the tech exists, it’s inevitably an arms race.
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Sep 28, 2021 03:43
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Hey, hang on - it doesn't include every single leftist on earth. For instance, it doesn't include Morpheus, Neo, Trinity, etc. "Leftist" doesn't actually mean revolutionary, and moreover it doesn't mean effectively revolutionary; it might mean using pretty slogans to gild State Department propaganda. Morpheus's resistance is, effectively speaking, a vanguard party; they want to lead humanity in taking the fight to the enemy, but as Jodi Dean writes anybody but not everybody can be a comrade. "People who are so inured and hopelessly dependent on the system that they'll fight to protect it" probably includes members of actual authority groups that the agents have formal contact with and control over, like the security agents who arrest Neo at his job and bring him in for an interrogation. It probably doesn't include the random homeless guy who Neo threw in the path of a train. But... in any revolutionary struggle, plenty of random homeless guys or sick people or whatever are actually going to buy the farm in precisely as unfair and senseless a way as he did. Does someone in a hospital on life support want you to have the decisive battle against the state that ends up destroying a local power plant? No. Hell, does someone who'll be fired if he's late to work one more time want his bus driver to go on a transit strike? Absolutely not. But these are the eggs you break if you want to make an omelet. I'm not sure that the robots can upload superpowers into anyone they want, unless it's by copying an agent over someone. Cypher, meanwhile, is just the Blaise Compaoré to Morpheus's Sankara. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 04:19
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The really wild Matrix Reloaded script is dubiously authentic. The date doesn't really match up - the Wachowskis commented to EW that they weren't concerned with the sequels after the first film's immediate release, and they weren't greenlit until after the movie came out on DVD, but the script is dated about two weeks after the first film's release, when they said they weren't working on it. Smith also calls Reeves' character Neo through the entire thing. Y fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 05:18
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Also remember that even if they could upload superpowers, the machines have no need to do this. The One and his power are just part of their control system. A fake revolution that will just reset time and start a new countdown until the matrix society goes unstable again. This plan has worked for centuries until the neo, trinity and smith existed and thanks to the Oracle's tampering.
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Sep 28, 2021 06:08
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That Reloaded draft was supposedly written by someone named JJ Timmins.
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Sep 28, 2021 12:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
No one is homeless, everyone is just a guy in a pod. Everyone is collectively dreaming some guy is homeless. Is that the same? The movie doesn't say much past that about that question and leaves it pretty simple but makes sure to soak every single frame background in references to gnosticism, simulacra and ideas about maya in case you want to think more about the question.
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Sep 28, 2021 13:58
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Ferrinus posted:Hey, hang on - it doesn't include every single leftist on earth. For instance, it doesn't include Morpheus, Neo, Trinity, etc. "Leftist" doesn't actually mean revolutionary, and moreover it doesn't mean effectively revolutionary; it might mean using pretty slogans to gild State Department propaganda. Morpheus's resistance is, effectively speaking, a vanguard party; they want to lead humanity in taking the fight to the enemy, but as Jodi Dean writes anybody but not everybody can be a comrade. I'm selecting my words pretty carefully, so I'm not even getting to revolution yet. I mean, more plainly: is Morpheus anticapitalist? (That's a rhetorical question because the answer's "no".) It's very straightforward: if only the "unplugged" are to be trusted, then Morpheus' goal is not to influence and agitate the working classes at all, but to separate from them, remaining apart from them. Remember, Morpheus is entirely indifferent to conditions inside the matrix. The system he's talking about is not the capitalist system, but the automated life-support system powered by fusion reactors in "2199". The robots running the life-support machines aren't capitalist, as Smith notes, because they aren't seeking profit or expansion, or anything like that. This isn't They Live (or Man Of Steel, Elysium, Captive State...) The machines' goal in creating the matrix was to contain the capitalist planet that had previously declared war on them. It's a zoo, or jail. There is a capitalist system inside the matrix, but this is a result of the humans being generally left to their own devices. It is a hell, a sort of afterlife, but a hell of humanity's own making - a result of their bad choices after having been granted free will. So the solution is not to destroy this world but to help the machines with their goal of bringing about the kingdom of heaven, which they have only failed to implement because of minor limitations in their programming. What do I mean by influence and agitation, and why is it different from "unplugging"? Here's Lenin: "Let every worker who understands the need to unite for the struggle against the employers and the government join the trade unions. The very aim of the trade unions would be impossible of achievement, if they did not unite all who have attained at least this elementary degree of understanding, if they were not very broad organizations. The broader these organizations, the broader will be our influence over them — an influence due, not only to the 'spontaneous' development of the economic struggle, but to the direct and conscious effort of the socialist trade union members to influence their comrades." "It is precisely our campaign of exposure that will help us to separate the tares from the wheat. ... By the wheat we mean attracting the attention of ever larger numbers, including the most backward sections, of the workers to social and political questions, and freeing ourselves, the revolutionaries, from functions that are essentially legal (the distribution of legal books, mutual aid, etc.), the development of which will inevitably provide us with an increasing quantity of material for agitation." By "campaign of exposure", Lenin is referring to ruthless ideological critique of even well-intentioned liberals, to alert the workers to spies and agents provocateurs inside organizations such as trade unions, so as to strengthen them. These organizations, in turn, free the revolutionaries from having to do everything. Even Disney's Rogue One got this. Meanwhile, Morpheus didn't even notice Cypher doing this poo poo within his own organization. It's because his paranoia is directionless and nonspecific. "Anyone could, at any moment, randomly pull out a gun and kill you!" Yeah, probably. So do we just never go outside? In fairness, the movie ends with Neo declaring he's going to show "these people" something. But the movie just ends at that point. If we're being very generous, Neo may have exceeded Morpheus' teachings and pledged to form a vanguard party that will influence preexisting groups inside the matrix - but we don't really know. It maybe happens offscreen, but it absolutely doesn't happen in the sequels. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 17:42
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Edit: also I find the idea of seeing the "original" Matrix 2 script fascinating because it was literally shot less than a year after 9/11, when America had gone - for lack of a better phrase - completely reactionary. The Matrix sequels were shot between March 2001 and August 2002 so it's unlikely they changed the story to any huge degree because of 9/11.
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Sep 28, 2021 18:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The sequels are generally a huge narrative departure from Matrix 1, which is why it's difficult to talk about the series as a whole. Matrix 1 famously ended with Neo promising to show humanity "a world without you [the dark machine-god]", and then he just... doesn't. This is super interesting and would have been such a different movie
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Sep 28, 2021 18:28
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Necrothatcher posted:The Matrix sequels were shot between March 2001 and August 2002 so it's unlikely they changed the story to any huge degree because of 9/11. Wasn’t there a pretty big pause in production when Aaliyah died?
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Sep 28, 2021 18:29
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