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This theater thing is interesting. So far only a few interesting stats: - I've only killed 18 pigeons and 4 ducks (but somehow am in the top 10% of Travelers for killing pigeons?) - I've apparently never gotten some commission to help Albert clean up leaf piles - I've spent 99,897,740 Mora
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Sep 28, 2021 21:57
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Ultima66 posted:It's the same thing to me as the perpetual sale economy where clothing stores have everything on 75% off MEGA SALE at all times or tipping in America where it's all bullshit designed to make people feel like they're getting something "extra." You get to this awful point where any store that isn't listing their $20 jacket for $100 with an 80% discount is doing it wrong and tipping isn't at all about how good the actual service was because you just have to give 18-20% tips because that's how things are with restaurant pay structures. It makes those things completely meaningless to me and I hate it. Yes, but these are two different things. This is a gacha game that thrives on probably 1% of the total players generating 99% of the income for the company making the game. The rest of those players depend on "free" handouts to play the game, so having a roadmap is a pretty big QoL feature. They aren't really even selling anything to begin with, they are exploiting people with gambling problems/too much disposable income/etc etc.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:00
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I think people are pissed off and finally breaking over the skimpy anniversary rewards because Genshin in general is stingy as hell about everything. If you don't buy Welkin you get a laughably tiny amount of primos to spend because events barely give any & world exploration is a trickle outside of the big fancy world quests. When you do finally have a sizable amount of primos saved up you still face a 50/50 chance of actually getting the character you want unless the pity is already lined up. There's no way in hell you'll be able to do a full 2 rounds of pulls to guarantee a character on completely free-to-play. Compound that with the aggressive time-gating from resin that makes getting new character up a long chore. Plus there's some argument to be made that Abyss caters to whales who get the newest characters released. On top of that there's basically no communication from the devs about anything and there's still glaring issues with various things in the game that continually get ignored. People were already irritated by all this stuff that's been a problem since day 1 so the anniversary being barely anything was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:04
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I don't think the "time-gating" with resin is really a big deal, since you can pretty easily level characters up as long as you're not in a rush (and you'll frequently already have most of what you need to get someone to like level 70+, with recent stuff only being an exception due to some materials unlocking at the same time as the characters). If anything, I prefer the limit on how much you can do each day (since it prevents there from being a benefit to grinding indefinitely). The only thing that would be better would be if you could bank more resin (and the condensed resin system we get is better than you get in most similar games). edit: For example, even if you don't have the battlepass, you can earn up the Mora or XP to level a character to ~80 with only a few days worth of resin. A single day's worth of resin is more than 480k Mora (which is the amount from 160, which is what I usually spend, since I usually only log on once a day). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 22:11
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I think the reason there are so many people making a stink is simply because this game attracted a lot of players who are not used to the business model of gacha games. They aren't really doing anything different that every gacha ever, but anyone who is playing a whale-centric game for the first time is ALWAYS going to be pissed because they don't understand it. Time gating with a resource? Check. Content is slow to arrive? Check. General "lazy" feel by devs to address issues with the game or interact directly with players in any way? Check. Content that forces people to pull on current banners in order to feel relevant? It's always the same story. These are games designed to basically print money with as little effort as possible. Granted, Genshin is a much higher base effort gacha then most, the way it sustains itself over a long period of time is probably going to be relatively similar. Furthermore, is a game that has an extremely limited number of units to obtain, so they can't exactly give out 100 or 200 free pulls over the course of a week like some gachas that have 3 or 4 times as many relevant units. It's a very simple gacha with very few obtainable pulls at any given time with terrible rates that basically rely on pity.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:15
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BabyRyoga posted:I think the reason there are so many people making a stink is simply because this game attracted a lot of players who are not used to the business model of gacha games. They aren't really doing anything different that every gacha ever, but anyone who is playing a whale-centric game for the first time is ALWAYS going to be pissed because they don't understand it. Well, the anniversary thing at least is literally the opposite and can only come from people experienced with other gacha games.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:17
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The only gacha I play is PAD and they give away SO MUCH on an almost daily basis. I don’t think there’s even events running all the time but you get free rolls almost daily if you collect your mail and do the freebie dungeons. And when there’s an event/ anniversary? That’s when the free stuff really flows.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:20
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Here's my dumb link, enjoy I guess.  https://webstatic-sea.mihoyo.com/ys...een#/GB0T1VSK6NBabyRyoga posted:I think the reason there are so many people making a stink is simply because this game attracted a lot of players who are not used to the business model of gacha games. They aren't really doing anything different that every gacha ever, but anyone who is playing a whale-centric game for the first time is ALWAYS going to be pissed because they don't understand it. Asimo fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 22:21
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Clarste posted:Well, the anniversary thing at least is literally the opposite and can only come from people experienced with other gacha games. I think it's people who play other gacha games with much larger gacha pools wanting more in this extremely limited pool game that is overwhelmingly based on pity inciting a mob out of people who are new to gacha games.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:21
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I think people are pissed off and finally breaking over the skimpy anniversary rewards because Genshin in general is stingy as hell about everything. If you don't buy Welkin you get a laughably tiny amount of primos to spend because events barely give any & world exploration is a trickle outside of the big fancy world quests. When you do finally have a sizable amount of primos saved up you still face a 50/50 chance of actually getting the character you want unless the pity is already lined up. There's no way in hell you'll be able to do a full 2 rounds of pulls to guarantee a character on completely free-to-play. Compound that with the aggressive time-gating from resin that makes getting new character up a long chore. Plus there's some argument to be made that Abyss caters to whales who get the newest characters released. I agree with most of this but dispute that this is anywhere close to "the straw that broke the camel's back" or indeed will have any noticeable effect going forwards. A significant portion of the people rending their clothing over this will be back in line like good consumers the moment we get another exciting character, or another exploration space, or even a good event. The portion of people who do leave for good over this won't really make a splash beyond the usual player churn. Mihoyo is very tight-lipped about player metrics and the only way you can really get any kind of external information about how Genshin is doing is when they release financial statements. These all paint a very rosy picture for how successful it is and how much money it's making, as long as you accept that public financial releases are usually tweaked to be as rosy as possible and it's one aspect of a larger picture anyway. Figuring out how the game is being accepted across the entire playerbase, which we must not forget is orders of magnitude bigger than people who regularly post on reddit or twitter, can be a bit like reading tea leaves. I make an assumption that the metrics Mihoyo have for player engagement are detailed and comprehensive - just look at what they were able to drop into the anniversary theatres for literally every player account! I also look at how the only real adjustments that seemed to be a direct result of player feedback in the entire year were a single adjustment early on to max Resin, and a buff to Zhongli and Geo in general. They haven't budged on anything else no matter how loud people get. The only conclusion I can make from that is none of the griping is affecting the bottom line so they don't care. I don't think the game is in a bad enough state that not enough freebies at anniversary will affect it at all. Mihoyo will release content, people will raise criticisms, Mihoyo will ignore them, and when the next Archon releases they'll make a billion dollars anyway and everyone gets bonuses. Repeat for the forseeable future.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:21
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Hey Enter your Anniversary Theater https://webstatic-sea.mihoyo.com/ys...een#/GB4E1SNMUN XQ was my first level 10 friendship. ZL has done the most domains. These boys put in work.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:25
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l-linkuu.... https://webstatic-sea.mihoyo.com/ys...een#/GB0XQEH2UN
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Sep 28, 2021 22:28
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Surprised to find out my best companion is Diona... Enter your Anniversary Theater https://webstatic-sea.mihoyo.com/ys...een#/GBEQ2DCMUN
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Sep 28, 2021 22:34
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Meiteron posted:I agree with most of this but dispute that this is anywhere close to "the straw that broke the camel's back" or indeed will have any noticeable effect going forwards. A significant portion of the people rending their clothing over this will be back in line like good consumers the moment we get another exciting character, or another exploration space, or even a good event. The portion of people who do leave for good over this won't really make a splash beyond the usual player churn. Oh yeah, I didn't use that phrase to imply that like Mihoyo was gonna get a reckoning or anything. Sad truth is they'll probably barely notice a blip on their radar. I mostly meant that I get the feeling a lot of people have been unsatisfied with things for awhile and getting 1/9th of a 5* as an anniversary reward is what is finally flipping them enough to go from unsatisfied to actually mad. Regardless Genshin will carry on as if nothing is happening they make so much unfathomable money it doesn't really matter.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:46
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Meiteron posted:I also look at how the only real adjustments that seemed to be a direct result of player feedback in the entire year were a single adjustment early on to max Resin, and a buff to Zhongli and Geo in general. They haven't budged on anything else no matter how loud people They’ve actually made tons and tons of changes based on feedback. Just this patch they made electro mineral nodes bigger. There’s countless adjustments like that.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:49
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no one reads the patch notes, the change has to come with a massive apology blogpost
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Sep 28, 2021 22:50
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social media's level of entitlement over not getting enough free stuff on arbitrary day #11 is hilarious. just admit you're bored of the game and go do something else you miserable fucks. oh wait there's a new voice actress to harass. i would never admit to playing this game
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Sep 28, 2021 22:51
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:The only gacha I play is PAD and they give away SO MUCH on an almost daily basis. I don’t think there’s even events running all the time but you get free rolls almost daily if you collect your mail and do the freebie dungeons. Unless PAD has changed substantially since I last played (which it may have, since it's probably been like 8 years or something), this seems kind of necessary since the high rarity things are monumentally more impactful in that game than in most gacha games. edit: It'd be like if in Genshin the 5*s just did like 20x as much damage as the F2P characters.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:54
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I have really bad simulator sickness, not just in FPS games, but in 3rd person games under certain conditions (Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Genshin) and I will say I am very, very happy that MiHoYo's surveys include questions about medical concerns (such as simulator sickness) while playing their game. I don't think any other game has ever done this. I used to work for Blizzard and I got the chance to talk to the guy who designed the WoW Goblin starting zone because it made me wildly sick and his response was basically, "yeah I've heard about this happening, huh" and then nothing else was ever done about it.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:57
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kater posted:They’ve actually made tons and tons of changes based on feedback. Just this patch they made electro mineral nodes bigger. There’s countless adjustments like that. Oh, neat! I thought the purple rocks seemed a little bigger. Hadn't realized that it was an actual patch change till you mentioned it. On an unrelated note, the anniversary seems to be coming around the same time as some pretty decent editorials and essays. Saw one on Kotaku earlier today, and Bullet Points Monthly is doing a month about Games as Service if you appreciate a more caustic perspective on these kinds of games. https://kotaku.com/one-year-with-genshin-impact-1847760685 "Genshin is a game about longing for old friends and places that no longer exist. Nowhere is this more clear than in the soundtrack, where nostalgic melodies such as “The City Favored By Wind” and “Moon in One’s Cup” were the constant backdrop of my journey. Teyvat’s immortal gods and their divine servants yearn for things that may never exist again. As I listened to stories of past friends and bygone civilizations, I felt that Genshin was enunciating an anxiety that I’d struggled to process during the pandemic." https://bulletpointsmonthly.com/2021/09/13/nier-reincarnation-gacha-oblivion "Will it feature an offline mode that allows players to view the stories they’ve collected and gathered over its lifespan? Or will it simply come to a sudden halt, with these narratives and characters lost to time and preserved only through fan curated webpages. That’s the gamble with gacha games, and to an extent, all “games as service” titles. One day these games will simply stop functioning, with their servers shut down to make way for another attempt to capitalize on brand recognition, attractive character design, or nostalgia" https://bulletpointsmonthly.com/2021/09/22/destiny-anxiety "Live service games offer a balm for this existential dread. They offer us the promise of everlasting life within their infinite playgrounds. They offer safety and comfort, they distract us away from the ever-present hissing of sand against the side of the hourglass. The gamble which live service developers make is that we will gladly sacrifice the potent and the compelling aspects of finite art in order to be spared the reminder of the limitations of our finite lives."
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Sep 28, 2021 22:59
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Ytlaya posted:edit: It'd be like if in Genshin the 5*s just did like 20x as much damage as the F2P characters. How much more damage does Raiden do than Lisa? Now I'm curious. Note Block posted:I have really bad simulator sickness, not just in FPS games, but in 3rd person games under certain conditions (Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Genshin) and I will say I am very, very happy that MiHoYo's surveys include questions about medical concerns (such as simulator sickness) while playing their game. I don't think any other game has ever done this. I used to work for Blizzard and I got the chance to talk to the guy who designed the WoW Goblin starting zone because it made me wildly sick and his response was basically, "yeah I've heard about this happening, huh" and then nothing else was ever done about it. I did in fact get nauseous and throw up while exploring Inazuma, although to be fair I was also on pain medication after surgery. I feel like the issue in this game comes from using those lightning orbs to zip around through the sky, causing the camera to jerk rapidly. Clarste fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 22:59
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I want to see a room full of people who've absorbed every single contradicting criticism of mhy unfiltered. Like someone who thinks they're greedy for forcing people to pull new characters to clear content, but also that the last 10 characters have all been total poo poo
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Sep 28, 2021 23:04
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Clarste posted:How much more damage does Raiden do than Lisa? Now I'm curious. For me, it's less about the quick movement of the camera (I also get simulator sickness playing Animal Crossing for example) and more the contrast of the ground to the surrounding environment as I move. So Starsnatch cliff always triggers me, as does certain sloping mountain ranges in Liyue like Mt. Tianheng.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:09
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AParadox posted:I'm kinda biased when it comes to keqing but she can be quite flashy and fun imo. I will endlessly bash Keqing because playing her in almost all content is frustrating as hell compared to any other option I have, but she really shines in the Inazuma talent domain and presumably overworld content. Being able to constantly teleport around really dicks with the nonstop samurai charges in a good way. Mix. posted:Feeling underwhelmed by what's been announced is understandable, it's the people who have a vitriolic meltdown over it that are the weirdos. If no one told me gacha anniversaries were A Big Thing(c) I'd have never known it. I think Warframe has the only anniversary event I've been a part of, and that's just exp/cash boosters and some unique weapons/cosmetics. People have been whipping themselves into a frenzy for months about this so it's hard to sympathize with them when imaginary expectations from the reddit echo chamber weren't met. I think this hit on the back end of Yoi and Kokomi, so you had a powderkeg going in and one more disappointment (even if they created it for themselves) just lit the match. There's people on reddit still holding faith that 2.2 will be the real anniversary and that's the same thinking that got them into this mess.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:17
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Even compared to Honkai the Anni stuff is pretty insulting in this game
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Sep 28, 2021 23:18
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Nyoro posted:Even compared to Honkai the Anni stuff is pretty insulting in this game Honkai's first only gave about a 10-pull, no?
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Sep 28, 2021 23:27
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I like how Mihoyo can give streamers 15k primogems just like that but the player base can’t get even one free 10 pull. https://twitter.com/langqiaos/status/1442890310544023552?s=21
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Sep 28, 2021 23:34
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Mill Village posted:I like how Mihoyo can give streamers 15k primogems just like that but the player base can’t get even one free 10 pull.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:36
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the player base actually is getting one free ten pull though
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Sep 28, 2021 23:36
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1600 primos vs 16600 is kinda lovely though.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:39
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https://mobile.twitter.com/langqiaos/status/1442890310544023552 Guess I should stream?
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Sep 28, 2021 23:42
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Keep in mind the streamer in question there probably spends somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000 a MONTH on the game. - They pretty much C6 every char - They pretty much R5 every weapon - They give away $100, 200, 500 etc numerous times (Per banner? Per week? It varies) to viewers who win giveaways and pull from those players' accounts on stream for content They aren't really getting anything for free.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:42
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I guess I've just been spoiled by games like DFFOO, which is giving players 8 free 10-pulls this month for no other reason than it's October, but I really did expect more. I honestly think Genshin would do well to follow their lead at least a little, because DFFOO makes most of its money off costumes. I consider them wildly overpriced, but I see a lot of them in co-op so clearly I'm the freak. All they would have to do is add, like, co-op Abyss floors so people can show off their costumes, and keep doing events like Windtrace. Then they could afford to give more pulls because then people will want to buy the costumes for their more characters maybe? People love these fuckin characters, man. Idk I don't really have any complaints, I've got everyone I wanted with just Welkin.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:44
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Content creators spend a lot of their time and money promoting the game. A hundred gifted pulls is measly for what miHoYo gets from them. Even f2p Enviosity spends money topping up viewers' accounts every banner
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Sep 28, 2021 23:57
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I understand the argument of "gamers are just entitled, asking for more when it's literally free" but f2p mobile gacha games are something of a stilted territory to build that argument on. If a game is gonna be free to play then free players need to be able to accumulate and obtain stuff at a reasonable pace. Which is not something Genshin does at all. I know a lot of people here go on about "all I do is get Welkin" and it's easy to think "oh it's only $5 a month" but that's still paying money to something. For anyone playing completely free the primogen flow is horrendous. You get 60 a day from commissions and whatever events give (usually not a huge amount). And when a 5* demands in the realm of 12k primos on average to pull that's an incredibly dire outlook. And no I don't accept the argument that "well who isn't able to afford $5 a month". The answer is plenty of people for a variety of reasons.
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Sep 29, 2021 00:12
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the thing you're specifically paying money for is access to new characters, and multiple characters at that. the game isn't made in such a way that you're denied access to currency for not spending money. the fact that f2p players have a harder time accumulating as many 5 star characters is very much by design, and there wasn't any chance they would change their policy on this for an anniversary because its basically one of the fundamental ideas behind how they monetize the game.
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Sep 29, 2021 00:22
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I understand the argument of "gamers are just entitled, asking for more when it's literally free" but f2p mobile gacha games are something of a stilted territory to build that argument on. If a game is gonna be free to play then free players need to be able to accumulate and obtain stuff at a reasonable pace. Which is not something Genshin does at all. I know a lot of people here go on about "all I do is get Welkin" and it's easy to think "oh it's only $5 a month" but that's still paying money to something. For anyone playing completely free the primogen flow is horrendous. You get 60 a day from commissions and whatever events give (usually not a huge amount). And when a 5* demands in the realm of 12k primos on average to pull that's an incredibly dire outlook. No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 00:25
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The argument I'm making is that a free-to-play game doesn't require making the free player experience a completely terrible one, as evidenced by plenty of other free-to-play games. And yet we still have people bending over backwards to say "No actually it's fine".
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Sep 29, 2021 00:29
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IS it completely terrible? It's 55 wishes per patch vs 80.
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Sep 29, 2021 00:30
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I still contend that everyone is wrong in this case. Genshin is a bad game that is psychologically addictive Genshin's devs suck and are not generous Gacha games suck in general Whiny player bases that don't realize they are actually being victimized both suck and are funny to watch Not understanding how a whole genre of games works is funny to watch
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Sep 29, 2021 00:33
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