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Sep 29, 2021 21:03
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I can’t link them, but if people here are really champing at the bit to play eternal formats but don’t want to spend thousands of dollars there are all sorts of places you can get paper playable proxies that will pass any inspection done short of busting out a loupe and getting sweaty about it.
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Sep 29, 2021 21:26
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Strong Sauce posted:it seems like they've decided 1WW 2/2 w/ flying first strike is way too strong. so for 2WW you get those attributes w/ an added 0/+1. no the point is that they can't print functionally identical cards to stuff that's on the reserve list. so thunder spirit being on rl means they can't make 1WW 2/2 flying first strikers again, period.
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Sep 29, 2021 21:43
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Serra Commando 2W Creature - angel warrior flying, first strike 2/2 fixed the problem mark plz give me commission money
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Sep 29, 2021 21:51
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Lone Goat posted:Despite Leperflesh getting hoodwinked into including it in the OP, Premodern is neither popular nor up and coming.
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Sep 29, 2021 22:18
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Silhouette posted:Serra Commando They basically did this already, multiple times, and the complaints are dumb because for limited it makes almost no difference that they can't reprint literal Thunder Spirit:  
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Sep 29, 2021 22:29
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Ultima66 posted:They basically did this already, multiple times, and the complaints are dumb because for limited it makes almost no difference that they can't reprint literal Thunder Spirit: My favourite part about anti-Reserved List chat is that, of all the reasons to revoke it, they rally behind a card that would end up being a C- at best in most draft formats.
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Sep 29, 2021 22:35
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Lone Goat posted:My favourite part about anti-Reserved List chat is that, of all the reasons to revoke it, they rally behind a card that would end up being a C- at best in most draft formats. well it's more that they can't print strictly better versions than anything
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Sep 29, 2021 22:50
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fadam posted:I can’t link them, but if people here are really champing at the bit to play eternal formats but don’t want to spend thousands of dollars there are all sorts of places you can get paper playable proxies that will pass any inspection done short of busting out a loupe and getting sweaty about it. And they have only improved in the years. A holostamp is no longer a barrier for entry.
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Sep 29, 2021 22:51
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Sickening posted:And they have only improved in the years. A holostamp is no longer a barrier for entry. My buddy ordered a fake full art Jeska’a Will that legit is indistinguishable lol. He had to write proxy on the back just to avoid accidentally trading it/selling it in a few years.
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Sep 29, 2021 23:12
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Lone Goat posted:My favourite part about anti-Reserved List chat is that, of all the reasons to revoke it, they rally behind a card that would end up being a C- at best in most draft formats. I want to revoke it because I want to stick a Black Lotus up my rear end, how's that
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Sep 29, 2021 23:17
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TheKingofSprings posted:I want to revoke it because I want to stick a Black Lotus up my rear end, how's that Yeah that's a much more noble reason than "I want a lovely white card gumming up the booster packs"
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Sep 29, 2021 23:18
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fadam posted:I can’t link them, but if people here are really champing at the bit to play eternal formats but don’t want to spend thousands of dollars there are all sorts of places you can get paper playable proxies that will pass any inspection done short of busting out a loupe and getting sweaty about it. My buddy ordered some of those for Commander. They look great and side by side they were almost indistinguishable, but I could almost cut to them consistently in an unsleeved set of cards and I think that could be a problem from a gameplay PoV.
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Sep 29, 2021 23:18
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fadam posted:My buddy ordered a fake full art Jeska’a Will that legit is indistinguishable lol. He had to write proxy on the back just to avoid accidentally trading it/selling it in a few years. I have played with proxies for a better part of decade at every level but the pro tour and worlds. Deck checked countless times. Unless you are careless, you probably not going to get caught and even if you do? Plausible deniability. Its a victimless crime.
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Sep 29, 2021 23:18
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Proxies? More like Praxis.TheKingofSprings posted:My buddy ordered some of those for Commander. They look great and side by side they were almost indistinguishable, but I could almost cut to them consistently in an unsleeved set of cards and I think that could be a problem from a gameplay PoV. I have not played with unsleeved cards in probably two decades, and I can't imagine playing a format that needs proxies without sleeving my cards up anyway. fadam fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 23:30
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A "proxy" that is intended to be indistinguishable from a real card, is not a proxy, it's a counterfeit card. The proliferation of counterfeits is why we're not allowed to link to proxy sites, even ones that are nominally not about making proxies that look like the originals. So that's kind of a pain. ahh, ya incorrigible scamp, I can't be mad
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Sep 30, 2021 00:01
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Leperflesh posted:A "proxy" that is intended to be indistinguishable from a real card, is not a proxy, it's a counterfeit card. The proliferation of counterfeits is why we're not allowed to link to proxy sites, even ones that are nominally not about making proxies that look like the originals. So that's kind of a pain. Sure, if that’s the distinction you want to use that’s fine with me. I don’t think anyone here is going to link to the sites where you can buy them, but I do strongly encourage anyone who wants to play with old, fun cards in a paper setting with cards that don’t look like poo poo to look into them.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:09
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fadam posted:Sure, if that’s the distinction you want to use that’s fine with me. I don’t think anyone here is going to link to the sites where you can buy them, but I do strongly encourage anyone who wants to play with old, fun cards in a paper setting with cards that don’t look like poo poo to look into them.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:34
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Captain Invictus posted:for reasons completely unrelated to the conversation at hand, can you enable personal messages I don’t wanna jerk Leperflesh around so no lol, but if you really wanted to contact me I’m certain I’ve posted my MTGA information in some thread recently.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:46
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The problem with counterfeits as proxies is they then get traded and can gently caress up someone else's day. If your card is in a sleeve the judge deck checking you isn't going to pull it out to look at the back but someone trading sure is.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:54
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ilmucche posted:The problem with counterfeits as proxies is they then get traded and can gently caress up someone else's day. If your card is in a sleeve the judge deck checking you isn't going to pull it out to look at the back but someone trading sure is. That is more of an issue of someone actively scamming and stealing from people, less though about someone wanting to play wizards poker for a reasonable price.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:09
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what if they were so indistinguishable you couldn't tell them apart ever even by ripping them open what would the morality be then
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Sep 30, 2021 01:11
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Could god make a proxy so realistic even he couldn’t tell the difference.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:14
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kalvanoo posted:what if they were so indistinguishable you couldn't tell them apart ever even by ripping them open what would the morality be then Who remembers that old post where someone got their misty rainforest ripped in half by someone claiming they knew what they were doing?
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Sep 30, 2021 01:16
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kalvanoo posted:what if they were so indistinguishable you couldn't tell them apart ever even by ripping them open what would the morality be then The morality is tied up with how people feel about intellectual property rights, corporations, the secondary market for cardboard, etc. and I'd invite anyone who really wants to dive deep into that, to go have the screaming fight in C-SPAM or something, rather than here, because I am 100% certain based on a year of moderating TG that we will not reach a happy consensus on that subject. The legality, however, is quite clear.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:20
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Sickening posted:Who remembers that old post where someone got their misty rainforest ripped in half by someone claiming they knew what they were doing? Ah, the infamous bend test.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:20
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Sickening posted:Who remembers that old post where someone got their misty rainforest ripped in half by someone claiming they knew what they were doing? Lol, fantastic. Even the suspected fakes I got I sent back to mkm for a refund. They never told me if they were really fakes 
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Sep 30, 2021 01:25
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I want to hear about the card ripping. That sounds like a good story.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:33
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Leperflesh posted:The morality is tied up with how people feel about intellectual property rights, corporations, the secondary market for cardboard, etc. and I'd invite anyone who really wants to dive deep into that, to go have the screaming fight in C-SPAM or something, rather than here, because I am 100% certain based on a year of moderating TG that we will not reach a happy consensus on that subject. Nah i want to hear people be a crybaby bitch and whine about how a multibillion dollar company needs to protect its copyright. That poo poo makes me hard
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Sep 30, 2021 01:38
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Leperflesh posted:A "proxy" that is intended to be indistinguishable from a real card, is not a proxy, it's a counterfeit card. The proliferation of counterfeits is why we're not allowed to link to proxy sites, even ones that are nominally not about making proxies that look like the originals. So that's kind of a pain. "Proxy" talk: WotC actually defines all this stuff in a way that the general playing base didn't take to, but it does help clarify things. A proxy is something handed out by a judge in an official event to replace a card that has become damaged during the course of play. Think of water being spilled or a card getting bent. Or in a specific historical example, a card only being printed in foil and every single copy bends too much to not count as a marked card (Kess in a legacy tournament, I believe). According to WotC, proxies are only ever issued out by judges in official events, so by their nature they are accepted by WotC. A playtest card is something that stands in for a card during a game but isn't supposed to pass itself off as a real card in any shape or form. A basic land with "BLACK LOTUS" scrawled across it in sharpie or a home printer print out sleeved in front of some random card in a deck would be a playtest card. These are okay with WotC. An exact quote from the linked article (which they put in bold themselves) is: "Wizards of the Coast has no desire to police playtest cards made for personal, non-commercial use, even if that usage takes place in a store." A counterfeit is a fake card that is trying to be passed off as a real card. These are not kosher with WotC. The internet at large has basically applied the term "proxy" to all of these examples which makes discussion clear as mud. It also means stuff like my Negan stand-in is a playtest card and the WotC police aren't going to come and get me as long as I'm not playing in a sanctioned event (lol sanctioned EDH)  Sickening posted:Who remembers that old post where someone got their misty rainforest ripped in half by someone claiming they knew what they were doing?
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Sep 30, 2021 01:42
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Sickening posted:Who remembers that old post where someone got their misty rainforest ripped in half by someone claiming they knew what they were doing? I remember it, but have no clue who it happened to.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:46
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mandatory lesbian posted:Nah i want to hear people be a crybaby bitch and whine about how a multibillion dollar company needs to protect its copyright. That poo poo makes me hard  Aranan posted:"Proxy" talk This is good, I didn't know they had a term for the second thing - "playtest card" is I think the typical thing goons want to talk about and link to, and if it wasn't some kind of site exploration homework assignment for a mod every time someone linked to a new one, we'd probably allow it. But it would have to be in order to diligently protect Jeffrey from legal hazard, so, welp.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:51
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Ultima66 posted:They basically did this already, multiple times, and the complaints are dumb because for limited it makes almost no difference that they can't reprint literal Thunder Spirit: Dies to Tim.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:55
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Aranan posted:Or in a specific historical example, a card only being printed in foil and every single copy bends too much to not count as a marked card (Kess in a legacy tournament, I believe). The nexus of fate buy a box promo did this too didn't it?
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Sep 30, 2021 02:04
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ilmucche posted:The nexus of fate buy a box promo did this too didn't it? Anecdotal but every Nexus I’ve seen hasn’t had curling issues.
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Sep 30, 2021 02:43
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ilmucche posted:The nexus of fate buy a box promo did this too didn't it? Yes there were lots of standard tourneys I recall with proxied nexus.
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Sep 30, 2021 03:07
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So quick poll, who is feeling I'd really like to go, but I am doubtful I will. Then again, I will have attended plenty of Kraken games by then...
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Sep 30, 2021 03:38
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:So quick poll, who is feeling I'm going to try and stomarch FNM at a place with a mask mandate and move from there. My local place told me "we're leaving it up to our players" why holding 30+ person events in their tiny space.
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Sep 30, 2021 04:19
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kalvanoo posted:what if they were so indistinguishable you couldn't tell them apart ever even by ripping them open what would the morality be then what if reality isn't real
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Sep 30, 2021 05:05
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Aranan posted:
That's because "the Internet" doesn't like to take responsibility for their actions. Making counterfeit cards (cards designed to be easily mistaken for real cards by laymen) is a lovely thing to do. You got beef with WotC? Cool. Don't play in their tournaments. Hell, don't buy their cards. Nobody's got a gun to your head. But when you buy or create counterfeit cards, which we've seen time and again work themselves into the ecosystem and be pawned off.on unsuspecting customers, you're just being a shithead. You aren't Robin Hood, sticking it to the man. You don't have some moral high ground. You're just doing harm to all the other people involved: the artists, the printers, the game stores, and fellow players.
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Sep 30, 2021 07:30
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