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Victis posted:All of those felt incredibly lame imo, fitting of her shallow values Being literally invulnerable and still being a sadsack who wants to kill everyone and is incapable of experiencing joy is also incredibly pathetic, though. She's not wrong about Jagganoth.
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Sep 29, 2021 23:10
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every demiurge is a pathetic failure who will only know the taste of the bars of the cages they made make noodles and laugh
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Sep 29, 2021 23:18
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It’s nice that Nadia reverted back to her beautiful young self as she shed the fear of death.
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Sep 29, 2021 23:18
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Victis posted:All of those felt incredibly lame imo, fitting of her shallow values On the flip side, Jagganoth could not be further from destroying the Wheel despite his incredible power. He is the Wheel Turning King for a reason and that is truly incredibly pitiful.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:30
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Yeah Mottom went out riding the loving lightning/a dragon and raised the middle finger in death, it'd be more cool if it wasn't her own stupid fault for not just being nice for once but still, a good way to go
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Sep 30, 2021 00:39
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In that last, brief moment, Mottom achieved something close to Royalty for the first time in her life.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:54
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Royalty sucks and is bad.
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Sep 30, 2021 03:21
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Kramjacks posted:Royalty sucks and is bad. Congrats you're now one step closer to Royalty.
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Sep 30, 2021 03:42
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Potato Salad posted:every demiurge is a pathetic failure who will only know the taste of the bars of the cages they made Maya is also a demiurge she just doesn't have a key right now She's been bitterly unhappy and drunk for precisely as long as the demiurges have ruled, it's great
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Sep 30, 2021 03:48
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The idea that Jagganoth is doing all this despite knowing 1. He's done it before 2. Something happens when he gets to Metatron and his memory goes blank 3. He still hasn't got what he wants is kind of driving me crazy. Like I feel like if this were Allison's plot point everybody would be screaming at her "No you idiot, you're being played!" but I guess one weakness of having the hog that straddles the universe is that no-one is willing to remind you that you're being a doof.
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Sep 30, 2021 07:43
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Joe Slowboat posted:Maya is also a demiurge she just doesn't have a key right now im really interested to see what Maya's role is moving forward because as a student of Meti she seems to have an understanding of the futility of reaching for what the demiurges were seeking, enough so to reject it, if not enough so to totally renounce reaching heaven by violence e. hot take but incubus and maya took two different lessons from meti - incubus absorbed her lessons of "if you must strike, strike immediately without hesitance" and Maya, in the end, regrettably, wishes she had become a noodle seller with many large sons paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 07:46
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iirc Maya is set apart from the other demiurges in Jadis' prophecy what if after everyone dies, Maya shows up like "and what do you think of Death now, girl?"
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Sep 30, 2021 07:57
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Maya is Juggernaut Star. 
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Sep 30, 2021 08:19
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Nilbop posted:The idea that Jagganoth is doing all this despite knowing I brought this up awhile ago that his plan literally makes no sense and as far as I can tell no one's really come up with any kind of explanation for why he's doing what he's doing. Hmm, well I've done this a million times already, but THIS time for sure, if I just keep doing the thing I've been doing things are going to turn out differently. Huh, some things I wasn't involved in are going differently, better squash it all back into the thing I'm used to or my amazing plan to destroy the cycle by repeating history isn't going to work.
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Sep 30, 2021 09:17
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His knowledge of the loop increases a little bit every iteration though, no? Could be his plan is to speedrun through the loops as part of the fact-finding phase for his actual plan to do something about it. If he accidentally stumbles into a path where the direct approach actually works, sure that's fine too.
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Sep 30, 2021 10:50
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Guildenstern Mother posted:I brought this up awhile ago that his plan literally makes no sense and as far as I can tell no one's really come up with any kind of explanation for why he's doing what he's doing. Hmm, well I've done this a million times already, but THIS time for sure, if I just keep doing the thing I've been doing things are going to turn out differently. Huh, some things I wasn't involved in are going differently, better squash it all back into the thing I'm used to or my amazing plan to destroy the cycle by repeating history isn't going to work. The best I can come up with is that it's not that he is doing one thing that doesn't work over and over, he has a plan where 99% of it works every time and then falls just short at the very end each time but just maybe this time that last bit will come together. An analogy that comes to mind would be like being stuck on a level or area in a video game, where you can get through everything just fine until missing that one last jump you almost make every time, or it coming down to whether you or the last boss gets the final hit in every time, being just one second too slow to finish, or if RNG goes in your favor or not at the end. You're so close so you keep reloading and trying again because it's right there in your grasp and it looks like it really could go different this time. And this time it really is going a little different! The next thing you know the sun is coming up and you realize you have been doing this for way too long and coming back at it another day with a new approach and a fresh set of eyes is probably for the best. Jag just hasn't quite seen the sun come up yet.
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Sep 30, 2021 11:14
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Twenty Four posted:The best I can come up with is that it's not that he is doing one thing that doesn't work over and over, he has a plan where 99% of it works every time and then falls just short at the very end each time but just maybe this time that last bit will come together. Jagganoth just needs to put the controller down and go do chores for a few hours.
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Sep 30, 2021 11:15
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mycomancy posted:Jagganoth just needs to put the controller down and go
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Sep 30, 2021 11:21
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mycomancy posted:Jagganoth just needs to put the controller down and go do chores for a few hours. Zoss has been yelling at him to do the dishes for aeons now but Metatron keeps going "re?".
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Sep 30, 2021 11:24
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To go with that analogy, maybe this is the next day and Jag thinks he has figured out a way to make the last jump, shave a few seconds off his time, or invited his friend who says they totally know how to do it over to help or whatever. e: mycomancy posted:Jagganoth just needs to put the controller down and go do chores for a few hours. lol yes Twenty Four fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 11:38
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he genuinely thinks that the only tool available to accomplish his goals is the big key. there is no version of this where he gets it peacefully although funny enough he did try for it, so whoever is left preventing that has to be killed. this is not challenging to him and he knows, for sure, eventually what always happens always happens. honestly him trying to finangle the key bloodlessly reminds me a little of me mashing the buttons trying to skip an unskippable cutscene lol i think he's being truthful in what he describes - this is a speed bump in his conceptualization of his journey to killing zoss and/or metaton and fixing everything. it's the most important thing to our characters and the narrative of course but to jagg this is clearing the stage for the important part.
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Sep 30, 2021 11:44
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CoolCab posted:metaton You bastard.
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Sep 30, 2021 11:47
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packetmantis posted:You bastard. Do you think Jagganoth would consider himself a big shot?
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Sep 30, 2021 11:53
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Does Jagganoth have perfect recall from previous loops? I thought he was aware of it happening, but we don't have much insight on how much he remembers. It'd make sense (and be fairly ironic) that his attempts to break the loop by killing all the demiurges and grabbing their keys is what resets the loop, and that he lacks the memory to alter his plan.
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Sep 30, 2021 11:56
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Vagabong posted:Does Jagganoth have perfect recall from previous loops? I thought he was aware of it happening, but we don't have much insight on how much he remembers. It'd make sense (and be fairly ironic) that his attempts to break the loop by killing all the demiurges and grabbing their keys is what resets the loop, and that he lacks the memory to alter his plan.
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Sep 30, 2021 12:01
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Vagabong posted:Does Jagganoth have perfect recall from previous loops? I thought he was aware of it happening, but we don't have much insight on how much he remembers. It'd make sense (and be fairly ironic) that his attempts to break the loop by killing all the demiurges and grabbing their keys is what resets the loop, and that he lacks the memory to alter his plan. He explicitly has little actual recall of prior loops, but knows their outlines. Zoss's heir rises to the throne of heaven and jaggs kills them. Then Time loops back on itself, but he doesnt know why it does. In this loop the demiurges arent dead and the intended heir wasnt chosen (thanks to a certain angel getting sick of it all and not staying their hand). But with all these changes Jaggs still believes himself the constant and reprises his role like the countless times before. standard.deviant posted:Honestly the “wheel turning king” title on Jaggs makes me kind of wonder if he goes through with his plan, realizes that his actions made his goal impossible for some reason, and then resets the loop himself every time. If he could then that would mean he is Royalty akin to Zoss and would have retained knowledge of the former worlds. From the latest strip quote:"Ox faced, black-tongued, the Wheel Turning King is master of terrestrial powers and war arts. His dominance is unchallenged and he crushes the kings of mankind using only three of his fingers. He wields the legacy of the crimson eyed god with a blazing will and a heated brow. His mighty body is a gate to hold back heaven. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 12:14
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Rigged Death Trap posted:
well, about that
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Sep 30, 2021 12:34
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Zoss is the fake out. It’s actually Jagganoth with amnesia who’s time travelling and stuffing keys into peoples heads to find an heir that can beat him and break the cycle.
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Sep 30, 2021 13:25
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Demiurge4 posted:Zoss is the fake out. It’s actually Jagganoth with amnesia who’s time travelling and stuffing keys into peoples heads to find an heir that can beat him and break the cycle. So, an immortal who wants to die but can only do so by re-writing history over and over again until he finds the one timeline where his death is actually possible. Except every time he fails and mashes the History Reset Button he forgets exactly what he did last time, and possibly even that he was the one doing it. An especially cursed reverse-Mario.
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Sep 30, 2021 13:44
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Thundarr posted:So, an immortal who wants to die but can only do so by re-writing history over and over again until he finds the one timeline where his death is actually possible. Except every time he fails and mashes the History Reset Button he forgets exactly what he did last time, and possibly even that he was the one doing it. Jagganoth just needs to have One Perfect Day where he manages to kill all of the Demiurges in a single go. That will finally allow him to break the loop. Or Wheel, whatever.
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Sep 30, 2021 16:31
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So you're saying he's stuck inside some sort of loop of death?
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Sep 30, 2021 17:39
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GlyphGryph posted:So you're saying he's stuck inside some sort of loop of death? Colt is shockingly close to Royalty, really.
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Sep 30, 2021 17:48
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What's the goal on the other end? For the "true heir" to beat Jaggs?
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Sep 30, 2021 17:54
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Probably just find a way to stop the person who wants to do an omnicide in the process of destroying time itself, whether it involves the True Heir or something entirely different to accomplish, with a longer term goal of stopping the continued cycle of Big Conquerer makes a golden age, dude collapses and everything goes to poo poo before someone inevitably consolidates power again.
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Sep 30, 2021 19:08
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Ditch posted:What's the goal on the other end?
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Sep 30, 2021 20:01
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I think Jagganoth might just be as stuck in a prison of his own making as the demiurges. He is an omnicidal maniac due to his own personal issues (cosmic-grade PTSD). When he becomes aware of being trapped in an endlessly repeating cycle, he convinces himself that he just needs to Kill Everything a little bit harder, because that's the only way he can react to anything. He tells himself there's a plan (kill Metatron) or a philosophical basis (the universe must be destroyed to be free), but it's just violence retrospectively justifying itself. The violence is the point. He's forged himself into a being of pure will, utterly focussed on a single task. This has made him ludicrously powerful, but also completely incapable of ever questioning himself. He will walk straight through a Demiurge blast that would knock a mountain over without slowing down, but will never in a million iterations of the same apocalypse think "hey I should try something different".
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Sep 30, 2021 22:10
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kill megatron, break the wheel, that kind of thing. jagg just wants to kill literally everyone first and in the process.
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Oct 1, 2021 01:42
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Magnus Manfist posted:I think Jagganoth might just be as stuck in a prison of his own making as the demiurges. He is an omnicidal maniac due to his own personal issues (cosmic-grade PTSD). When he becomes aware of being trapped in an endlessly repeating cycle, he convinces himself that he just needs to Kill Everything a little bit harder, because that's the only way he can react to anything. He tells himself there's a plan (kill Metatron) or a philosophical basis (the universe must be destroyed to be free), but it's just violence retrospectively justifying itself. The violence is the point. He even says as much when he speaks to Aspected Chaos, says things are different and then immediately goes "no matter, ill just correct it back myself." While also bemoaning the cyclical nature of it. Like (some) of the other demiurges he realizes exactly the bounds of his prison but is incapable of becoming free of it.
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Oct 1, 2021 10:07
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:Kill Six Billion Demons. First time Zoss did this it was just one demon.
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Oct 1, 2021 14:25
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YaketySass posted:First time Zoss did this it was just one demon. poo poo, what if... what is the six billion is how many times the loop has happened and there really is just one demon. Edit: And the name of the first heir was just "Kill 2 Demons"
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Oct 1, 2021 14:56
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