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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Toshimo posted:

That's because "the Internet" doesn't like to take responsibility for their actions.

Making counterfeit cards (cards designed to be easily mistaken for real cards by laymen) is a lovely thing to do.

You got beef with WotC? Cool. Don't play in their tournaments. Hell, don't buy their cards. Nobody's got a gun to your head.

But when you buy or create counterfeit cards, which we've seen time and again work themselves into the ecosystem and be pawned off.on unsuspecting customers, you're just being a shithead. You aren't Robin Hood, sticking it to the man. You don't have some moral high ground. You're just doing harm to all the other people involved: the artists, the printers, the game stores, and fellow players.

have u tried valium

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thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin
https://youtu.be/ZsCydQKqJmk

You can go infinite in Standard using the new Teferi

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty

Toshimo posted:

That's because "the Internet" doesn't like to take responsibility for their actions.

Making counterfeit cards (cards designed to be easily mistaken for real cards by laymen) is a lovely thing to do.

You got beef with WotC? Cool. Don't play in their tournaments. Hell, don't buy their cards. Nobody's got a gun to your head.

But when you buy or create counterfeit cards, which we've seen time and again work themselves into the ecosystem and be pawned off.on unsuspecting customers, you're just being a shithead. You aren't Robin Hood, sticking it to the man. You don't have some moral high ground. You're just doing harm to all the other people involved: the artists, the printers, the game stores, and fellow players.
is this the kind of whining that guy upthread wanted

kalvanoo
Apr 29, 2018

look at this lil perv
it certainly isnt what i wanted thats for sure

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012

Captain Invictus posted:

is this the kind of whining that guy upthread wanted

Yes but im not a guy

TheKingslayer
Sep 3, 2008

thetoughestbean posted:

https://youtu.be/ZsCydQKqJmk

You can go infinite in Standard using the new Teferi

I wanted to see what the combo was but holy gently caress that streamer is unbearable.

Covermeinsunshine
Sep 15, 2021

Heh this is my big problem with MTGgoldfish - they seem like decent guys and I mostly agree with their points, but I don't think there is one person on that channel that does not somehow irk me with their manner of speaking

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?
Seth's weird way of speaking has gotten worse

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
If you turn it up to 2x speed it sounds like he's speaking at a normal pace.

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010

Toshimo posted:

That's because "the Internet" doesn't like to take responsibility for their actions.

Making counterfeit cards (cards designed to be easily mistaken for real cards by laymen) is a lovely thing to do.

You got beef with WotC? Cool. Don't play in their tournaments. Hell, don't buy their cards. Nobody's got a gun to your head.

But when you buy or create counterfeit cards, which we've seen time and again work themselves into the ecosystem and be pawned off.on unsuspecting customers, you're just being a shithead. You aren't Robin Hood, sticking it to the man. You don't have some moral high ground. You're just doing harm to all the other people involved: the artists, the printers, the game stores, and fellow players.

brutal takedown of all the people in this thread claiming to be robin hood

BizarroAzrael
Apr 6, 2006

"That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."
What's a good way to get up to date on Modern? I'm thinking of going to the Vegas GP (or whatever it's called now) and whilst I might do the Crimson Vow sealed (sealed's not the best but I'd be playing the set a week early) I think I'm going to at least try the Modern event. Is Griefblade a Thing? I got some of the MH2 cards but I'd need to get Stoneforges. I can also do Vampires which might not be top tier but I have affinity for the tribe and enjoy it, plus it can sometimes just be so explosive as to be unbeatable.

I should probably hop back to MTGO (I've played Arena pretty exclusively over the pandemic) and rent decks for leagues but I'd then need to source the cards in paper PDQ.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

When you play with a counterfeit card, you're playing with everyone who's ever played that card before.

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Pablo Nergigante posted:

When you play with a counterfeit card, you're playing with everyone who's ever played that card before.
You wouldn't proxy a car

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Froghammer posted:

You wouldn't proxy a car


DON'T PROXY THAT MOXY

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

Lone Goat posted:

DON'T PROXY THAT MOXY

Lol

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

BizarroAzrael posted:

What's a good way to get up to date on Modern? I'm thinking of going to the Vegas GP (or whatever it's called now) and whilst I might do the Crimson Vow sealed (sealed's not the best but I'd be playing the set a week early) I think I'm going to at least try the Modern event. Is Griefblade a Thing? I got some of the MH2 cards but I'd need to get Stoneforges. I can also do Vampires which might not be top tier but I have affinity for the tribe and enjoy it, plus it can sometimes just be so explosive as to be unbeatable.

I should probably hop back to MTGO (I've played Arena pretty exclusively over the pandemic) and rent decks for leagues but I'd then need to source the cards in paper PDQ.

To get up to date I would watch some streamers. During the day (american time) Aspiring Spike exclusively plays modern and he's pretty good at it. He's a brewer, and because he's got 1500 viewers the MTGO meta tends to follow him. He streams from 9-2 CST. Then I would find another streamer streaming modern and watch them a bit in the evening. You could also just go to twitch and search for the deck you plan to play and watch someone else playing it and see what they encountered.
Griefblade is commonly called "Sewer", which refers to all these BW grief/efemerate archetypes. I think right now they're on a persist/reanimator package along with the SFM. They're OK.
Since you're playing a paper event I would recommend finding a paper venue. MTGO handles a lot of the nuance and timing (like setting stops) that you can only remember in paper by playing paper.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Just to address the angry post seriously, I don't think anyone's suggesting people should replace their whole decks with proxies and never pay for cards again. But blowing up a bubble of artificial scarcity with reserved list poo poo from decades ago has nothing to do with supporting the artists, so if someone wants to proxy a Taiga, good for them. Obviously there's a huge middle ground between that and running proxy commons, and I think a lot of reasonable people could disagree about when exactly it's cool to do and when it isn't, but fortunately this isn't D&D so we don't have to have that argument.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

I don't play paper MTG these days so I have no particular skin in the game, but in a world where a single revised dual land costs as much as a PS5 I don't begrudge anyone wanting to proxy a couple tropical islands

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Pablo Nergigante posted:

I don't play paper MTG these days so I have no particular skin in the game, but in a world where a single revised dual land costs as much as a PS5 I don't begrudge anyone wanting to proxy a couple tropical islands

To what end? To play in dead rear end Legacy tournaments? If the format is unsustainable without counterfeits, just let it die and teach WotC the lesson it needs to learn.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004

It's 2006. I am taking 276 yeti furs from the goodies hoard.

Lol

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Wizards won't care at all if Legacy dies.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

Toshimo posted:

To what end? To play in dead rear end Legacy tournaments? If the format is unsustainable without counterfeits, just let it die and teach WotC the lesson it needs to learn.

What lesson. If the format dies literally the only ones being hurt are people who want to play it

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer
If anything, the death of Reserve List formats has taught them that if they let old stuff go, players will mostly just move on to where the action is. And they're better off as a company having those players focused on formats they can still meaningfully monetize.

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

hahaha

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

Toshimo posted:

To what end? To play in dead rear end Legacy tournaments? If the format is unsustainable without counterfeits, just let it die and teach WotC the lesson it needs to learn.

don't know why people keep calling legacy dead. there are a bunch of legacy tournaments with no proxies, and even more with. people want to play legacy

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Toshimo posted:

To what end? To play in dead rear end Legacy tournaments? If the format is unsustainable without counterfeits, just let it die and teach WotC the lesson it needs to learn.

Probably the end of playing with the cards tbh. Even if you're not trying to rip someone off there's a lot of value in playing with cards that look/feel like real Magic cards while in a sleeve, especially if you think you're going to get deck checked.

I think you, me and the thread are in total agreement that anyone who tries to trade/sell proxies/counterfeits/fakes/whatever is a piece of poo poo. I'm not going to play any of my counterfeits anywhere I could get deck checked any time soon so mine all either have a different MPC card back or a sharpie on the back that shows it is not a real magic card, and I have to assume most people in this thread who use fakes in tournaments have some method of differentiating them from real cards too.

fadam fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Sep 30, 2021

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

Toshimo posted:

That's because "the Internet" doesn't like to take responsibility for their actions.

Making counterfeit cards (cards designed to be easily mistaken for real cards by laymen) is a lovely thing to do.

You got beef with WotC? Cool. Don't play in their tournaments. Hell, don't buy their cards. Nobody's got a gun to your head.

But when you buy or create counterfeit cards, which we've seen time and again work themselves into the ecosystem and be pawned off.on unsuspecting customers, you're just being a shithead. You aren't Robin Hood, sticking it to the man. You don't have some moral high ground. You're just doing harm to all the other people involved: the artists, the printers, the game stores, and fellow players.

WotC will move plenty of 80 dollar monkes without me, Toshimo

They do not need my cash

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
Every time a kid somewhere sits down to play commander with a chinese proxy dual land instead of doing without, an improvement to the game as been made, not the other way around.

Shabadu
Jul 18, 2003

rain dance


Say that I want to build a powered cube in paper to play with folk. Wizards is not and will not be selling me such a product outside of MTGO. They've left a niche available and The Market is correcting this mistake. This is not the fault of the printers or the consumers of the product, but of the Rights holder not seizing the opportunity.

Shabadu fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Sep 30, 2021

LeafHouse
Apr 22, 2008

That's what you get for not hailing to the chimp!



A proxy revolution seems like a great way to incentivize WoTC to bring back organized play.

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I'm going to get rich and buy every single magic card and burn them all in a great bonfire and then we'll all be finally free of this curse

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Shabadu posted:

Say that I want to build a powered cube in paper to play with folk. Wizards is not and will not be selling me such a product outside of MTGO. They've left a niche available and The Market is correcting this mistake. This is not the fault of the printers or the consumers of the product, but of the Rights holder not seizing the opportunity.

Why does your cube need to be functionally indistinguishable from authentic? What harm is there to your cube to have cards that can't be mistaken for real by the average person? Are you worried that people will think less of your cube?

Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


Shabadu posted:

Say that I want to build a powered cube in paper to play with folk. Wizards is not and will not be selling me such a product outside of MTGO. They've left a niche available and The Market is correcting this mistake. This is not the fault of the printers or the consumers of the product, but of the Rights holder not seizing the opportunity.

I think this is one of the main drivers for people who don't have a robust vintage/legacy local scene.

I just want to play with paper power just to see what that feels like.

I would pay for a silver/gold/whatever non legal border set of 'power cube' released by wiz.

Alas...

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

Sickening posted:

Every time a kid somewhere sits down to play commander with a chinese proxy dual land instead of doing without, an improvement to the game as been made, not the other way around.

Proxy ok, counterfeit less ok

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!

People have been clamoring for a gold bordered Vintage Cube for years but wotc won't or can't do it because I'm pretty sure the RL extends to gold/silver borders as well

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Silhouette posted:

People have been clamoring for a gold bordered Vintage Cube for years but wotc won't or can't do it because I'm pretty sure the RL extends to gold/silver borders as well

It does not.

quote:

Current definition
Reserved cards are cards that will never be printed again in a functionally identical form.
A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness.
The exclusion of any particular card from the reserved list doesn't indicate that there are any plans to reprint that card.
The reprint policy applies to both English and non-English cards.
All policies apply only to tournament-legal Magic cards in printed form. Wizards of the Coast has and may continue to print special versions of cards not meant for regular gameplay, such as oversized cards. The restriction also does not apply on non-redeemable digital cards in Magic Online or MTG Arena.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
As much as I shrug off the RL as a lost cause at this point, it still amuses me that gold bordered cards are affected by it when they're not legal in any format (even commander). They're literally WotC-sanctioned proxies that they could and would still make money off of without affecting any competitive metagame (or collector value, for the hand-wringing RL defenders) but still allowing casual and kitchen table players to have "official" copies, if having self-made proxies isn't kosher with them.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

I feel like they don't print gold border just because they want people to forget about the reserve list as much as possible instead of opening the can of worms up and having more people want legal versions next. On the flip side, I think they've also decided that having super expensive cards from the game's past is a good thing that makes people want to buy current product even though the same conditions no longer apply. If the reserve list didn't exist, I'm not totally convinced that Wizards wouldn't find a way to create it even now.

Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Sep 30, 2021

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Dynamite Dog
Dec 12, 2012

i think it's more likely that the WotC corporate lawyer they need to talk to to do any of this stuff is an rear end in a top hat so they don't try

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