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It's like the whole 'Other' thing. OK, so the Doctor might be made from the essence of another Time Lord who threw himself into the looms. It might give some character context for Seven, but it doesn't really open up new story telling avenues, but it also doesn't close any off. The Other has become a footnote, rather than the franchise redefining idea it was probably meant as (given the franchise has a very pick and choose approach to what matters from the VNAs anyway, it matters even less). Plus we've had more interesting stories with Seven since that don't need him to be a weird remade ancient Time Lord. Hopefully Whittaker's run isn't all about the Timeless Child thing. The way I'd do it is have 13 flip through photos of all the 14 canon incarnations, giving a little nod to all of them, and going "that's who I am, because they were me, are me, and I am them, and we are - I am - the Doctor". Then move on. I'm hoping that it turns out that a decent chunk of Time Lords are off world and trying to recolonize Gallifrey. Otherwise "and the Master killed them all offscreen" undermines so many other writer's work, its silly. I've said it before, but the Time Lords being back post-Time War, but with limited power and trying to decide what course their species and society should take is more interesting than taking them off the table. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 23:12
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Finally mostly caught up. Finished season 12 proper and just have the Revolution of the Daleks to go. I was really hoping to get something great from Sacha Dhawan's Master and there were certainly glimmers of his acting ability here and there but overall a miss. Ryan, Yaz, and Graham constantly feel like interchangeable roles and I don't feel any sort of attachment to them or what happens to them.
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Sep 29, 2021 23:49
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OldMemes posted:It's like the whole 'Other' thing. OK, so the Doctor might be made from the essence of another Time Lord who threw himself into the looms. It might give some character context for Seven, but it doesn't really open up new story telling avenues, but it also doesn't close any off. The Other has become a footnote, rather than the franchise redefining idea it was probably meant as (given the franchise has a very pick and choose approach to what matters from the VNAs anyway, it matters even less). Plus we've had more interesting stories with Seven since that don't need him to be a weird remade ancient Time Lord. Hopefully Whittaker's run isn't all about the Timeless Child thing. Time lords always represented imperial England. It’d be easy to make something awful and ham handed with that but England is also in a place having them “come back” and suck is a plot you could go down effectively
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Sep 30, 2021 02:35
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, it's been the most obvious handwave explanation for decades, and the show has gone out of its way multiple times including in the revival to hammer home again and again and again and again and again that the 1st Doctor was... well, the 1st Doctor! Chibnall provided a solution to what nobody but an incredibly tiny percentage of the most hardcore fans thought was a problem in the first place, and his solution was absolutely stupid (and oh yeah what the Master killed everybody on Gallifrey? And the Doctor... is just kinda bummed and then moves on? What the gently caress!?!). Rule Number 1: The Doctor Lies Rule Number 1a: The Master can get dizzy walking in a straight line.
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Sep 30, 2021 04:10
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jisforjosh posted:Finally mostly caught up. Finished season 12 proper and just have the Revolution of the Daleks to go. I was really hoping to get something great from Sacha Dhawan's Master and there were certainly glimmers of his acting ability here and there but overall a miss. Ryan, Yaz, and Graham constantly feel like interchangeable roles and I don't feel any sort of attachment to them or what happens to them. Sacha Dhawan is a very decent actor, and I’ve followed him with interest over the years (teenage crush ahoy), and his work as the Master is definitely more interesting material than what Whittaker has to work with. However, playful with a very short fuse and sudden psychopathic anger is just the John Simm playbook again.
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Sep 30, 2021 08:41
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I think my absolute favorite moment of his Master is when the Doctor first notes that his bad cardio doesn't match his record as a runner. For just a second you see his eyes darting around and you know that in character the Master is scrambling for some kind of clever answer to explain it away and keep up the ruse.... and then there is the glorious moment where he obviously realizes,"Nope, I can't, she's rumbled me.... and NOW I CAN STOP PRETENDING AND START HAVING FUN!  " and he just erupts with glee. There are a lot of similar moments in the revival with the Master, my favorite of them all is probably still the hungry look in Missy's eyes as she waits for realization to hit the Doctor on who she is, she's been waiting for that moment for sooooo long and she can barely contain herself now that it has finally arrived. 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 09:26
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World Enough And Time's Master reveal was also great
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Sep 30, 2021 09:35
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OldMemes posted:It's more the opposite problem, Whittaker is trying hard, but the scripts aren't. Do you know what, that could be what it is. I havnt see. As many pivotal and character defining moments as I did with Peter capaldi or Matt smith. The girl is popping with energy tho
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Sep 30, 2021 09:59
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Vinylshadow posted:World Enough And Time's Master reveal was also great I love that tiny little crash-zoom they put in like a relic from the RTD era.... little realizing that just that barest crack was all the Welsh Giant needed to find his way home again 
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Sep 30, 2021 10:01
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Whatever RTD's problems were, one thing he did do well was uncouple the series from tiresome continuity while still keeping the door open for all the familiar things to come back. It seems like he wants to turn the show into a franchise, so he's probably not as interested in a big "soft reset" like the Time War, but if the Timeless Child thing doesn't appeal to him, he'll definitely find a way to write it out. I still haven't seen the episode - it sounded so bad, I thought I'd wait until there were a few other episodes of Doctor Who to watch after it so I wouldn't be waiting around on a bad note.
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Sep 30, 2021 13:34
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BIgDevine posted:I’m not to keen on the female doctor I think she tries to hard. Big Devine more like Ian Levine
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Sep 30, 2021 13:40
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The_Doctor posted:Sacha Dhawan is a very decent actor, and I’ve followed him with interest over the years (teenage crush ahoy), and his work as the Master is definitely more interesting material than what Whittaker has to work with. However, playful with a very short fuse and sudden psychopathic anger is just the John Simm playbook again. I might be stepping in it here but I think John Simm is probably the second worst Master (Eric Roberts was probably the worst)? He's a little better when he returns in Capaldi's era, but it's a big, scenery-chewing kind of role and I never felt him commit the way that Michelle Gomez, Sacha Dhawan, Derek Jacobi, and CGI Snake did. Admittedly he didn't have the best material to work with, but it's not like Anthony Ainley did either, and he was still fun to watch.
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Sep 30, 2021 13:51
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Simm's Master came across like a murderous Daffy Duck, which could only make me imagine the magnitude of the disdainful sneer that Delgado's Master would have produced had they somehow ever appeared in a multi-Master story.
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Sep 30, 2021 16:20
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It would be the War Doctor meeting 10/11 all over again.
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Sep 30, 2021 16:46
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Watching Revolution of the Daleks and they really couldn't come up with a better containment vessel for the cloned Dalek than an ATX computer case with two RGB fans at the bottom?
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Sep 30, 2021 17:29
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Come on mate, it has a handle. It's clearly a Gamecube
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Sep 30, 2021 17:31
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Jerusalem posted:I think my absolute favorite moment of his Master is when the Doctor first notes that his bad cardio doesn't match his record as a runner. For just a second you see his eyes darting around and you know that in character the Master is scrambling for some kind of clever answer to explain it away and keep up the ruse.... and then there is the glorious moment where he obviously realizes,"Nope, I can't, she's rumbled me.... and NOW I CAN STOP PRETENDING AND START HAVING FUN! I haven't rewatched Spyfall, but isn't the premise that The Doctor has known this guy for some time? I adore the implication that The Master makes a point of befriending The Doctor secretly, and that there may be who knows how many other sleeper Masters out there among The Doctor's allies. Oh poo poo know what would make an amazing Multi Master story? If a companion, who over their story had been gormless, helpless, or often getting The Doctor into trouble had turned out to be The Master the whole time. If there hadn't been several family/history stories, Yaz would have been beyond perfect for this. And this would be a great mid series story because then for the rest of the series The Doctor could be dealing with deep distrust of everyone they know.
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Sep 30, 2021 17:38
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CommonShore posted:I haven't rewatched Spyfall, but isn't the premise that The Doctor has known this guy for some time? I adore the implication that The Master makes a point of befriending The Doctor secretly, and that there may be who knows how many other sleeper Masters out there among The Doctor's allies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg92hfbjyyA
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Sep 30, 2021 19:09
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Payndz posted:Simm's Master came across like a murderous Daffy Duck, which could only make me imagine the magnitude of the disdainful sneer that Delgado's Master would have produced had they somehow ever appeared in a multi-Master story. Granted, there are multiple literary and cinematic depictions of Satan which could accurately be described as “murderous Daffy Duck.” But yes, I’m pretty sure the “two Masters meet and kill each other” thing would pretty much apply with any two Masters. Delgado and Missy might have a shot at getting along for a while, assuming she isn’t furious with him for all his failed plots.
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Oct 1, 2021 00:55
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jisforjosh posted:Watching Revolution of the Daleks and they really couldn't come up with a better containment vessel for the cloned Dalek than an ATX computer case with two RGB fans at the bottom? Everything else was being used to mine Bitcoin.
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Oct 1, 2021 01:29
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As I've said before and repeat often, I don't think last season- or the Chibnall/Whittaker run as a whole- is terrible. The first year felt like a return to traditional "alien genius saves world, runs from monsters" stuff after Moffat's last few seasons got both very introspective and very hung up on time paradox tricks. Season Twelve does have Orphan 55, which is an inexcusable mess for the *entire year* it took to film this series, and the main problem with Timeless Children is fundamentally, the Doctor does nothing, and there aren't a lot of *good* standouts that year. (There's at least one episode I've forgotten entirely.) So it's a slump, definitely. I'm still inclined to think the decision to bring RTD back was more "let's pump up interest" more than "we need to do this or else cancel the show." Just as importantly, I've heard it said that a factor in RTD's decision to come back may not have been "Either you come back or the show dies" so much as "The BBC is very heavily embattled right now on all sides and a popular creator coming back to the show he helped put on the map is good publicity."
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Oct 1, 2021 01:29
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https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1443593659702730752
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Oct 1, 2021 01:50
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Narsham posted:Granted, there are multiple literary and cinematic depictions of Satan which could accurately be described as “murderous Daffy Duck.” Master: Well yes, but it was the Doctor you see, he kept foiling everything! Missy: He was literally brain damaged at the time and he still managed to foil all your plots! Master: Correction, all OUR plots  Master & Missy: 
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Oct 1, 2021 01:56
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Jerusalem posted:Master: Well yes, but it was the Doctor you see, he kept foiling everything! Delgado and Missy do meet in the Missy comic mini-series where they scheme to get the Key of Time for different reasons It's a good fun romp
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Oct 1, 2021 03:20
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There are 13 more Sundays left in 2021, so I'd hope the next season starts soon!
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Oct 1, 2021 09:40
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There are conflicting reports, one internal calendar says Autumn 2021, and another says December 2021.
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Oct 1, 2021 09:56
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Technically, both could be correct: the Winter solstice is December 21, so there are three Sundays in December that are in the Fall.
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Oct 1, 2021 09:59
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jisforjosh posted:Watching Revolution of the Daleks and they really couldn't come up with a better containment vessel for the cloned Dalek than an ATX computer case with two RGB fans at the bottom? Also why on earth did he open it, what did he think was going to happen. Did he think it would just walk into the fire. THROW THE CASE IN THE FLAMES!
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Oct 1, 2021 10:25
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Edward Mass posted:There are 13 more Sundays left in 2021, so I'd hope the next season starts soon! Oh nice, one for each episode of a regular season, I guess it must be starting this week!
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Oct 1, 2021 11:07
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The Two Masters didn't really do much for me at all, even though Beevers and McQueen are fun. The whole Master bodyswap doesn't feel like it has much of an impact, and the Doctor seems to spend most of the story being....there. And You Will Obey Me and Vampire of the Mind were better stories. I do find it interesting that the Master's 2nd to 12th incarnations are basically still a mystery, and the Master regenerated into a decayed 14th incarnation out of pure spite. McQueen's Master is a delight whenever he shows up, really.
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Oct 1, 2021 18:12
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OldMemes posted:
do we know that Delgado was the first? I always figured he was toward the end.
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Oct 1, 2021 19:08
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Bicyclops posted:do we know that Delgado was the first? I always figured he was toward the end. Delgado was the 13th Master, the first Master was that little kid we saw in Last of the Time Lords.
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Oct 1, 2021 19:35
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OldMemes posted:I do find it interesting that the Master's 2nd to 12th incarnations are basically still a mystery, and the Master regenerated into a decayed 14th incarnation out of pure spite. To be fair, once you've already done the story where the Master finds a way to cheat the regeneration limit and Big Finish's already done the first master stories (with a terrible person as their pick, btw), where do you go from there? Say that Chibnall revealed that Sacha Dwhan's version of the Master was the... Fourth in a future episode. What would that change about what we saw on screen?
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Oct 1, 2021 19:56
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Edward Mass posted:Delgado was the 13th Master, the first Master was that little kid we saw in Last of the Time Lords. Ah, yeah, fair enough. I guess he does count, even if we only sort of saw him for a couple of seconds.
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Oct 1, 2021 21:01
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Watched Demons of the Punjab and Kerblam! back to back. Wow, what a difference in quality. Demons was great, and TBH I expected it to be great because of all the talk I've heard of it. But Kerblam was... weird? Came off very pro-Amazon to me, with it turning out that the system/executives were all just well-meaning and love the people who worked under them, and by their benevolence gave these people the chance to earn a real living... while the REAL villain was a rogue worker, who desired selfish change "for the people". There's no problem with the system, just a few bad apples (at the worker level) keeping the company down!
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Oct 3, 2021 20:16
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The politics of Ker-blam are loving horrifying. Definitely right up there with "don't take your meds" from In the Forest of the Night, which was somehow seven loving years ago and I'm older than dirt.
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Oct 3, 2021 20:19
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Like, I get that they're trying to do this twist where it turns out the company/executives aren't evil, but the episode went way way way too far in portraying them in a good light. Just felt weird
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Oct 3, 2021 20:30
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LividLiquid posted:The politics of Ker-blam are loving horrifying.
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Oct 3, 2021 21:46
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Also, and I will never stop going on about this because it continues to blow my mind, the AI literally murders an innocent person in an extremely cruel way and the Doctor treats it as a desperate but failed attempt to teach the evil human empathy and then just completely forgets about it and continues to talk up how the AI is actually good and moral  Also the evil human terrorist literally fulfills his objective - to force more human employment on the company - and so essentially "wins". It's.... it's a loving bizarre episode. Made even worse because in the moment I was enjoying the setting and the various characters bouncing off the situation but then it concludes in about the WORST way possible. I kept waiting for the reveal that the AI had used a teleporter (you know, that thing it can do!) to fake the innocent woman's death but no, just straight up murdered her!
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Oct 3, 2021 21:46
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I don’t get the CyberBrig thing because Moffat had already written the best send-off for the Brigadier already, and it’s genuinely affecting.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAJ0kF50_wk
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Oct 3, 2021 21:54
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