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There's also an issue with people who think that an expanded coal phase = a greatly expanded hand crafting phase, or making bread and butter machines like miners, inserters and assemblers exponentially more complicated so that bootstrapping to any kind of automation (or even automatically mining rather than hand mining) takes aaaages.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:50
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Yeah, you need to find a conversation mod/combo of mods which hit both the types and the levels of extra fuckery you’re looking for (you might be operating under a misapprehension of your own desired fuckery levels and types, to add to the fun), and which are conceived of and executed in a coherent enough fashion. That’s a hell of a specific target to hit as a mod creator, too. Creativity is actually pretty weird and unlikely, it’s sort of wild.
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Sep 30, 2021 03:01
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I would frankly be less annoyed if the burner phase was extended to take like 10 hours and multiple tiers of science. When it still only matters for the first half of red science, all that infrastructure is just going to be torn down as soon as I can mass produce inserters and miners. It doesn't take all that long, but it still feels like the first few hours are wasted.
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Sep 30, 2021 05:44
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I like the way pyanodons handles it. Coal has a ton more products and can be refined further to remain useful late game and you pretty much always need it, so setting up coal infrastructure doesn't feel like a waste.
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Sep 30, 2021 18:26
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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misguided rage posted:I like the way pyanodons handles it. Coal has a ton more products and can be refined further to remain useful late game and you pretty much always need it, so setting up coal infrastructure doesn't feel like a waste. I foolishly started up a Pyanodons game last night. I'm 4 hours in and still hand crafting everything because I haven't made my first 10 red science packs yet in order to research automation. I'm almost there, the last factory I need to put together is the seaweed farm, but in order to make it I need to first mine aluminum to get 10 aluminum plates. Of course the only aluminum patch is a fair trot away from everything else and I need to get coal gas to the miners there, which means I need more raw coal mining, and figuring out how to deal with all the by-products of turning a small bit of it into gas. Crazy mod.
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Oct 1, 2021 21:57
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The Locator posted:I foolishly started up a Pyanodons game last night. Py is maximum crazy so good luck. I've yet to stick with a game long enough to get to blue science (so like only 200 hours). Hope you turned off biters the pack is 100% intended to play with them disabled. Or at least turned the evolution settings down massively.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:11
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Py is maximum crazy so good luck. I've yet to stick with a game long enough to get to blue science (so like only 200 hours). Oh.. I absolutely disabled biters, I knew for a fact that I'd get slaughtered early on even with biters at the kindest possible (non-peaceful) settings.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:17
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What's the best way to share modlists nowadays? Like if someone wants to join me on my CnC-ized adventure in factorio. Getting AAI even if just for the chaingunner tanks is real fun btw, really gives you a way to project force back at the biters.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:34
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Nalesh posted:What's the best way to share modlists nowadays? Like if someone wants to join me on my CnC-ized adventure in factorio. There’s mod syncing in game already, shouldn’t need to manually install. I think it would work for MP, but if not can just send the save and they can hit the sync mods button while looking at the save (top right, one of those buttons).
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Oct 1, 2021 22:58
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I think that should work, but I'm not sure if it takes the mod version in consideration.
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Oct 2, 2021 01:56
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Mods can actually delete their old versions from the portal, as I've had happen to me a few times where a friend goes to join a multiplayer game and they had mod version X, the server is running X+1, and the portal only has X+3 as the oldest version for modder reasons. So even if it does (I don't remember) you might have issues there anyway.
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Oct 2, 2021 02:09
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Freaksaus posted:I think that should work, but I'm not sure if it takes the mod version in consideration. Hm, I would hope it does. But you could be right. If it doesn’t and versions matter there’s a Text file in the save zip with all of the mods and their versions you could share as the formal list.
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Oct 2, 2021 02:13
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Py is maximum crazy so good luck. I've yet to stick with a game long enough to get to blue science (so like only 200 hours). I finally got some red science packs, now have researched automation, logistics and electronics. 5.5 hours in. I can now look at trying to actually automate the red science now that I can make undergrounds and splitters as currently not only is it hand fed mostly (with some small pieces interconnected) but I don't have enough buildings to actually automate it as things like the glass foundry that makes the beakers, is the same glass foundry that made all the petri dishes, and some steps like getting the petri ready for the culturing, and making the red stuff that goes into the science packs is all hand crafted currently. Not sure how far into this I'll get, but it's certainly crazy.
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Oct 3, 2021 00:44
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So one of the hardest parts of early Py is getting enough fuel for the Glassworks. What I always end up doing is using a tailings pond to store molten glass and tar, then use coal gas to fuel them until the tar gets half full-ish. Then cut off the coal gas, let the pipes empty and switch to burning tar. It gets way better once you can make Syngas because it's twice as energy dense and you can convert tar to coal gas so all your DDT fluid products can unify.
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Oct 3, 2021 01:46
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[B]Factorio: All Your DDT Fluids[b]
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Oct 3, 2021 02:16
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So I hit a real wtf moment in Pyanodon as I started to set up some basic automation of building the 'building stuff'.. i.e. yellow belts, splitters, inserters, undergrounds and assembly machines. 3 of these things require simple circuit boards. I... do not understand this. Why can I not set up an assembly machine to make these and simply dump a bunch of wood in a chest to supply it until I get the alternative recipe up and running? The alternative recipe appears to be more involved and more buildings (and even more gases) than everything I've done already to this point in the game, just to get those simple circuit boards automated to make the basic building blocks for the base. Ughh..... Edit: Also beginning to think that using default railworld settings on the map might have been a huge mistake. The level of basic iron and copper requirements just to smelt enough to get a full yellow belt of plates is far too high for even the closest non-starter patches of ore to output even when covered in electric miners. The 1 plate per 8 ore and 10 second cycle means I eat up a full yellow belt of ore feeding only 20 stone furnaces, and those output 2 plates per second total? I think. So I would need 7.5 full yellow belts of ore feeding a total of 150 furnaces I think for a yellow belt of plates? I'm tired and working from memory so I may be off, but the full yellow belt of ore in is just a trickle of plates out. The Locator fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 07:50
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Yeah Py has simple recipes for handcrafting and more obnoxious ones for automation to make things more logistically tricky. I guess it's a slight improvement over making everything except the most primitive stuff require tier 2 boards with an obnoxious recipe, but it still sucks mightily as far as actually getting started goes. It almost makes you want to cheat past the initial steps but once you start doing that when do you stop?
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Oct 3, 2021 10:39
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Anyway, usually the first step for these things is to automate the manufacturing but not the actual logistics, you still ctrl-click stacks of ingredients around periodically. Just keep doing that until you've reached the point where you can automate end-to-end production of the necessities.
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Oct 3, 2021 10:42
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Whatever rounding error Py has that makes poo poo run out of materials at 99.9% needs to be fixed before I throw my computer out the window.
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Oct 3, 2021 22:49
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KillHour posted:Whatever rounding error Py has that makes poo poo run out of materials at 99.9% needs to be fixed before I throw my computer out the window. Noticed that in the glass factory. Making molten glass adds 10/cycle. Creating bottles for science needs 200. Machine always xx9 instead of xx0.
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Oct 3, 2021 23:06
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The Locator posted:Noticed that in the glass factory. Sitting there with glass at 199 and logistic research at 99% and no rubber left like 
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Oct 3, 2021 23:14
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So red science is almost fully automated now, as I decided to do that while thinking about how to progress more as I began looking at how complicated it was going to be to automate production of the supposedly 'simple' circuit boards (note: not simple if not hand crafted). In order to get that up and running I need a lot more research so yeah.. automate red science. The mess that is red science:  Only two pieces are not automated now. 1) I have to manually change the glassworks from producing bottles to occasionally make some petri dishes. 2) I have to fill 1 chest with wood and another chest with limestone (or some sort of rock) once in a while. I could easily automate the stone, but not the wood. ---------------------- My advice to anyone who has never looked at this mod and is considering it. 1) When selecting the map settings, make sure you don't start in a desert wasteland without trees. You are gonna need to cut down thousands upon thousands of trees before you get to a place where you can automate wood production (assuming you ever can, but I think you should be able to from digging a bit). 2) Related to above. Start with something like Tiny-Start, Companion/Construction Bots. I would have ditched this game hours ago if I had to manually cut down the number of trees needed to get to the point in the game I'm at now. Just say no to hand-chopping 10,000 trees and bring some robots to do the job. Edit: Looking at the screenshot I also haven't automated the plate delivery to the one machine making making some sort of gas from carbon-dioxide + copper & iron plates. I will have to do that next time I load this up, although I'll have to loop it up over the top it looks like. The Locator fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Oct 4, 2021 |
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Oct 4, 2021 05:55
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Am I just misremembering things or is research queueing not a thing? going through the stuff that needs basic science because the higher tier krastorio labs can't use those and would really like it if I could just queue em up
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Oct 4, 2021 06:48
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Nalesh posted:Am I just misremembering things or is research queueing not a thing? going through the stuff that needs basic science because the higher tier krastorio labs can't use those and would really like it if I could just queue em up There’s a setting on map start for research queuing, no research queuing, or allowing it only after you’ve launched a rocket with a satellite (this option always confused me). I can’t recall if you can turn it on in Options for a map already in progress but surely if not for some reason there’s a mod which will do it for you.
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Oct 4, 2021 06:50
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LonsomeSon posted:There’s a setting on map start for research queuing, no research queuing, or allowing it only after you’ve launched a rocket with a satellite (this option always confused me). You cannot change it mid-game with the vanilla game, so would have to do it via a mod. I always turn that on before starting up a new map. If I forget the first time I go into the research tree and realize I forgot, I just restart the game to turn it on the 'always on' setting.
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Oct 4, 2021 07:03
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I thought it might be something like that, but it’s such a mystifying exception to the game’s general approach that I had myself convinced I was wrong
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Oct 4, 2021 07:08
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~ to bring up the console, then /c game.player.force.research_queue_enabled = true it'll disable achievements since any console commands count as "cheating" I guess.
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Oct 4, 2021 07:13
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yeah the factorio console is extremely powerful, it can basically do anything. highly recommend everyone have this page bookmarked: https://wiki.factorio.com/Console
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Oct 4, 2021 07:20
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which mod is the next step up in complexity from krastorio - angelbob or Py? Haven't played modded factorio in a long while
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Oct 4, 2021 16:37
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Impermanent posted:which mod is the next step up in complexity from krastorio - angelbob or Py? Haven't played modded factorio in a long while Pyanodons seems to be the current Last Word in making Factorio more complex and lengthy, though Angel’s adds an incredible amount of extra poo poo to Bob’s, which is itself at least 2-3 times More than K2
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Oct 4, 2021 16:47
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I find Py just makes everything slow and annoying, where angel-bobs adds a whole lot of production chains/loops but some of those loops are extremely efficient and you can have single buildings with multiple input/output loaders worth of materials just belting right through them. The problem solving becomes balancing and recycling some of the waste products and looping it back into productive chains.
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Oct 4, 2021 16:54
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Krastorio adds complexity but not crazy levels of complexity. It's fun, I recommend it.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:02
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There's also Nullius, which I have been puttering away at for a few weeks. So far it seem pretty much seems like Byproducts: the Game.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:02
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I think I know what sort of early-game construction drone replacement I would like for the game, but while keeping unlocking the drones a really, really important milestone. Basically, I would like it if the player could press and hold a key to automatically place any blueprint ghosted buildings in a small circle around them, but only placing ~2-3 items per second (so slower than placing a line of belts, but faster than trying to put each power pole in exactly the right spot or something). The idea is it wouldn't be much faster than actually placing it by hand normally (maybe even slower!), but it would be much less click-intensive and with no "ah poo poo, accidentally put a power pole where the inserter goes" moments that take up a fair bit of time. This would, of course, require blueprints to be unlocked immediately or very early in order to be useful. This way, you can have a lot of the advantages of making early-game blueprints for stone furnaces or whatever without removing the carrot of researching and setting up the infrastructure for robots. It could also help new players learn how to make and use blueprints before they have to learn how they work with construction robots, splitting it up into easier to digest lessons. This is with Vanilla in mind, crazy overhaul mods obviously should still just use quick start or something. If anyone has already made a mod that implements something like this I would love to hear it.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:03
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Nanobots mod kinda does that if it's still being maintained
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Oct 4, 2021 17:06
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Yeah, there's no reason your character shouldn't be able to auto-place stuff if it's in range of them with a small cooldown. It doesn't save time, just clicks.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:10
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The Locator posted:2) Related to above. Start with something like Tiny-Start, Companion/Construction Bots. I would have ditched this game hours ago if I had to manually cut down the number of trees needed to get to the point in the game I'm at now. Just say no to hand-chopping 10,000 trees and bring some robots to do the job. Maybe I'm missing the coming tree-geddon, but I'm fully automated on red science and maybe halfway through getting through the sciences on the next one (the thing that looks like a silver rectangle doohickie) and I don't think the tree requirements have been anything beyond mildly annoying. And I started in a pretty bandlands-type area. If anything, the most annoying thing was how far the nearest lead is, given that I just reached and secured it and I'm already seeing medium biters.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:29
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KillHour posted:Maybe I'm missing the coming tree-geddon, but I'm fully automated on red science and maybe halfway through getting through the sciences on the next one (the thing that looks like a silver rectangle doohickie) and I don't think the tree requirements have been anything beyond mildly annoying. And I started in a pretty bandlands-type area. If anything, the most annoying thing was how far the nearest lead is, given that I just reached and secured it and I'm already seeing medium biters. Hopefully my math isn't too bad here. 1 tree = 4 wood. 1 Cellulose = 7 wood. 1 Cellulose required per 10 substrate, 20 substrate per cycle of red science, so 14 wood per 6 science. 1 wood per 3 simple circuit boards: 5 simple circuits per splitter 1 simple circuit per yellow inserter 3 simple circuits per electric miner 2 simple circuits per offshore pump 3 simple circuits per assembly machine 10 simple circuits per science lab In addition almost every single new Pyanodon building requires anywhere from 5 to 50 simple circuits. Some buildings like the pulp mill require wood directly. All the things above just really add up to a lot of wood over time. I dunno, maybe it's not as bad as I feel like it is, or I am just building in a terribly inefficient way using lots of splitters/inserters, whatever, but I just feel like I have used many thousands of wood at this point and with no real end in sight to needing more before I find some way to either automate trees or wood substitutes or something.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:10
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KillHour posted:Maybe I'm missing the coming tree-geddon, but I'm fully automated on red science and maybe halfway through getting through the sciences on the next one (the thing that looks like a silver rectangle doohickie) and I don't think the tree requirements have been anything beyond mildly annoying. And I started in a pretty bandlands-type area. If anything, the most annoying thing was how far the nearest lead is, given that I just reached and secured it and I'm already seeing medium biters. Also.. you are playing Py with Biters on? You are on the next level, I turned biters off for this experience.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:11
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jesus Factory christ, that’s like the definition of pixel masochism
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Oct 4, 2021 18:12
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