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droll posted:"Better" Beating Backs Better
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Sep 30, 2021 20:25
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i liked the "allowing their badge to be permanently taken away" part. "i mean, i could fire the officer who just killed a Santa Ana councilmans cousin, but hey they has been put paid administrative leave and i think that's suffering enough!"
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Sep 30, 2021 21:18
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lmao, is there any enforcement to those bans? Even better yet, why is there still no ban on muting/loving with their body cams during an encounter?
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Sep 30, 2021 21:45
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quote:Police who engage in misconduct can receive lifetime bans from policing quote:Better training quote:Ban on police gangs quote:Restrictions on "crowd control" Spoiler: when the police ignore these and just do it anyway, they will be acquitted by grand jury and face no consequences. quote:Mandatory reporting of excessive force CHP has been proving for years that if a police agency doesn't want to report on something they can just refuse to do it: even if laws say they have to and/or they lose in court.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:45
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It's almost funny how nobody is considering having cops not be the people responsible for policing cops. It's a farce that "Internal Affairs" departments are drawn from the ranks of police officers and not an adversarial group without a conflict of interest.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:54
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And the cherry on top is this weak legislation will be described as 'defunding the police' and therefor when nothing changes or gets worse, proof that defund the police doesn't work.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:59
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droll posted:And the cherry on top is this weak legislation will be described as 'defunding the police' and therefor when nothing changes or gets worse, proof that defund the police doesn't work. Yep, "defund the police" by throwing a bunch of extra money at them with a vague mandate to use it to be "better", and when they invariably use instead to buy more tear gas and APC's throw your hands and say "welp we tried, guess the only way to fix this is to give them even more money. Gotta stop that crime!"
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Sep 30, 2021 22:04
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droll posted:And the cherry on top is this weak legislation will be described as 'defunding the police' and therefor when nothing changes or gets worse, proof that defund the police doesn't work. It’s “definitely a step in the right direction” though!
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Sep 30, 2021 22:10
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Infinite Karma posted:It's almost funny how nobody is considering having cops not be the people responsible for policing cops. It's a farce that "Internal Affairs" departments are drawn from the ranks of police officers and not an adversarial group without a conflict of interest. If Internal Affairs depts were not drawn from the ranks of cops then IA employees would be beaten, harassed, and threatened. Giving cops actual independent oversight would cause cop riots. They are violent gang members.
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Oct 1, 2021 00:00
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DoomTrainPhD posted:lmao, is there any enforcement to those bans? Most of these laws are just this in legal form: 
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Oct 1, 2021 00:01
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VikingofRock posted:
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Oct 1, 2021 00:33
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Muting and loving with your body cam isn't even banned yet lol. Police can literally mute their mics to conspire against you, and the courts go 
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Oct 1, 2021 00:35
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Has anyone else noticed we park on a drive way and drive on a park way Makes you think the Gavin mewsom recall was STOLEN
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Oct 1, 2021 01:22
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VikingofRock posted:[*] Police who engage in misconduct can receive lifetime bans from policing While everything on the list in unenforceable, this one strikes me as especially unenforceable.
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Oct 1, 2021 02:41
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What do you all think of Kevin de Leon? Looked into him a bit when he was trying to replace Feinstein and liked what I saw, but didn't dig deep enough to have a strong opinion. He's running for mayor of LA now.
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Oct 1, 2021 04:15
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confused posted:What do you all think of Kevin de Leon? I mean, he threw the election to Feinstein by doing literally zero campaigning after getting endorsed by the state level party.
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Oct 1, 2021 04:18
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confused posted:What do you all think of Kevin de Leon? He was center-leftish kinda guy while a state legislator, went hard left when he was trying to primary Feinstein, and then after it looked like he might actually be gaining some traction he just... completely stopped campaigning at all and then sort of fell of the map. Feinstein is one of the primary DNC power brokers so I can only assume he got knifed hard by backroom politics once he picked up the state party endorsement and looked vaguely like an actual threat to her power.
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Oct 1, 2021 04:31
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The Glumslinger posted:I mean, he threw the election to Feinstein by doing literally zero campaigning after getting endorsed by the state level party. What about his policies? Is he the right person to be mayor of LA? From what I've seen, he certainly seems smart and capable enough and I like the policies that I've seen him fight for. However, he doesn't have any experience in the executive branch.
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Oct 1, 2021 04:33
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confused posted:What about his policies? I hear Karen Bass is in the running.
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Oct 1, 2021 04:37
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confused posted:What about his policies? Is he the right person to be mayor of LA? From what I've seen, he certainly seems smart and capable enough and I like the policies that I've seen him fight for. However, he doesn't have any experience in the executive branch. Does he have a website listing his policies?
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Oct 1, 2021 04:41
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Clarste posted:While everything on the list in unenforceable, this one strikes me as especially unenforceable. it's likely to be largely unenforceable and also literally not enforced by the state, as the ban on working with ICE was. the departments interested in doing that either never stopped or set up little workarounds to give ICE the info they wanted indirectly, like that one sheriff who just straight up put that poo poo in the local paper. afaik, nothing was ever done to any departments or individual officers who violated the ban, including state cops. also I'm not even sure how much authority the state actually has to regulate sheriffs departments as it is, because again, the state police would have to investigate it... and they don't care
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Oct 1, 2021 04:42
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Ok I had some time to go through the bills, so here's a list of them and what they're supposed to do: ----------------------- AB 26: this is about use of force policies. The big changes are that it defines "excessive use of force," adds the word "immediately" to officer reporting requirements, bans retaliation against reporting officers (lol that this wasn't in the law somewhere already), and requires that any officer that fails to intercede when another officer is using excessive force be disciplined. The language there is still wishy-washy, it just says the officer that fails to intercede needs to be disciplined "up to and including" the same manner as the committing officer. AB 48: more use of force, but regarding reporting requirements and crowd control. Police agencies now have to report use of force to the state DOJ monthly. Before they only had to report annually. There are also new restrictions on using "kinetic energy projectiles" and "chemical agents," ie rubber bullets and tear gas. Use of these items are banned for the purpose of breaking up peaceful protests, but the words "objectively reasonable" show up a lot here regarding when they can be used. I suppose if nothing else officers will need to work a little harder instigating some objectively reasonable violence to shoot at. AB 89: training and education. You can no longer become a cop if you're under 21 (unless you're currently enrolled in a police training program, in which case you're grandfathered in) and a commission is being put together to update the police curriculum. The text says they want to further critical thinking in officers. Good luck, I guess. AB 481: military equipment acquisition. Requires all police agencies to submit to their local governing body a report detailing all their military equipment, and to seek approval from that body before seeking to acquire such equipment in the future. Further, by May 1, 2022, they'll have to submit a request to their local governing body if they want to continue using any such equipment acquired prior to Jan 1, 2022. If you're in a jurisdiction where your legislators worship at the feet of the police union (ie most of the state, lol) then this probably won't change much beyond giving people who like filing FOIA requests more records to dig through, but it seems like it gives more local power if you have a city council or board of supervisors you can pressure into blocking military equipment purchases. AB 490: updates the chokehold ban to ban any position that might lead to "positional asphyxia." Expect officers to ignore this like they already ignore the ban on chokeholds, generally to no consequence. AB 958: defines and bans "law enforcement gangs." Just legal stuff, useful if the AG's Office is going to start cracking down, meaningless otherwise. SB 2: permits for the decertification of police officers. Creates a new investigatory division within the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (aka POST) and a nine-member governor-appointed board. The new division is supposed to take and investigate public complaints towards officers, provide their reports to the POST Commission and the board, and then the board makes recommendations on decertification. There's also criteria for what warrants decertification, such as showing racial bias, physical assault, tampering with body cams, etc etc. Promising, but remains to be seen how much action is actually taken. SB 16: expands what police records are available to the public. Also permits courts to consider complaints against officers that are more than five years old. In theory, should make it easier to sue cops. ---------------------------- If anyone notices that I misread anything let me know, there's a lot of text to go through and it's possible I missed some important details. Out of all of them AB 481 is the most interesting to me. Probably worth harassing your city council member over. But a lot of it seems toothless, and definitely doesn't feel like it'll lead to any sort of major change. I guess if nothing else having these laws on the books should make it easier to get some money when your loved one is murdered by a cop. Small comfort, that.
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Oct 1, 2021 06:04
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958 sounds like the "gently caress the LASD" bill, considering they still have a massive cop gang problem and the current sheriff is more interested in harassing the people on the oversight committees than actually dealing with the sheriff gangs
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Oct 1, 2021 06:32
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Ok I had some time to go through the bills, so here's a list of them and what they're supposed to do: After reading the bill, it sounds exactly what cops already do. Yell at people on a loudspeaker for a while, then go nuts with whatever they feel like. Maybe they bother to make up some poo poo, maybe not. No one is going to call them on it, and riot cops are hard to identify anyways, so who knows which one actually did it? quote:(4) An objectively reasonable effort has been made to identify persons engaged in violent acts and those who are not, and kinetic energy projectiles or chemical agents are targeted toward those individuals engaged in violent acts. Projectiles shall not be aimed indiscriminately into a crowd or group of persons.
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Oct 1, 2021 08:19
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It doesn't define what a 'violent act' is, so it's kind of pointless to begin with. But it also just says they have to try to not hit journalists and other forms of rubberneckers. There's no mention of not being allowed to hit people in the face with riot flashbangs or whatever, just some vague wording about only hitting the correct people with excessive force. I've been to a couple protests gone bad and I can tell you that the Sac County Sheriff is never indiscriminate. They specifically love to hit people directly with the less than lethals. Dunno what this bill is supposed to do besides assuage liberals that cops are only accidentally ridiculously brutal.
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Oct 1, 2021 09:05
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The Glumslinger posted:958 sounds like the "gently caress the LASD" bill, considering they still have a massive cop gang problem and the current sheriff is more interested in harassing the people on the oversight committees than actually dealing with the sheriff gangs Actually, this one does nothing for the LASD as far as I can tell. The article I posted mentions that the LASD already has a ban on police gangs, and from another recent article on the subject: LATimes posted:Sheriff Alex Villanueva has denied that “gangs” exist within the department but has also taken credit for addressing the problem with a policy that prohibits deputies from joining any group that commits misconduct. Observers have criticized the policy, saying it lacks teeth and is not enforced. So I think that Wicked Them Beats's read of "useful if the AG's Office is going to start cracking down, meaningless otherwise" is exactly right here. IMO that applies to the rest of the bills as well — all of this stuff is only as good as its enforcement and there are clear reasons to be skeptical there.
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Oct 1, 2021 17:41
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Yeah it's worth noting that stuff like asphyxiation positions or police gangs or being a racist who assaults people over minor bruises to your ego, ie normal cop poo poo, is often already banned at the agency level. Cops just don't give a poo poo because there's no enforcement or consequences. That's why the military equipment bill is mildly interesting: losing access to their toys when they piss off the local community is a consequence police leadership might actually care about. But just like the decertification bill it still requires someone actually saying no to the police chief, police unions, and the DA. Very possible we get to three years from now and the police have had all of their murder weapon requests rubber stamped and we're averaging a dozen police decertified a year, with half of those getting their badges back as part of a legal settlement.
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Oct 1, 2021 17:48
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Must have been some interesting legal gymnastics to come up with a definition for police gangs that doesn't make the entire department illegal.
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Oct 1, 2021 18:01
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Here's the definition:quote:“Law enforcement gang” means a group of peace officers within a law enforcement agency who may identify themselves by a name and may be associated with an identifying symbol, including, but not limited to, matching tattoos, and who engage in a pattern of on-duty behavior that intentionally violates the law or fundamental principles of professional policing, including, but not limited to, excluding, harassing, or discriminating against any individual based on a protected category under federal or state antidiscrimination laws, engaging in or promoting conduct that violates the rights of other employees or members of the public, violating agency policy, the persistent practice of unlawful detention or use of excessive force in circumstances where it is known to be unjustified, falsifying police reports, fabricating or destroying evidence, targeting persons for enforcement based solely on protected characteristics of those persons, theft, unauthorized use of alcohol or drugs on duty, unlawful or unauthorized protection of other members from disciplinary actions, and retaliation against other officers who threaten or interfere with the activities of the group. Now, if you have basic pattern recognition you'll read that and go "ah, so every police department, then," but if you're a liberal you are very comfortable with the fiction that it's just a few bad apples and the cops doing this stuff are rare. And gotta love that it specifies "on-duty behavior." Keep your gang activity off the clock, fellas!
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Oct 1, 2021 18:25
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Lol, this is the Dunningest-Krugerest state to have ever existed. Don't forget to vote though!
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Oct 1, 2021 19:01
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Covid vaccine is getting added to mandatory school vaccinations  So that is one concrete good thing from Gavin not being recalled. (Only starting after non-EUA approval though)
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Oct 1, 2021 19:29
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California's eviction moritorium expired today. 725,000 Californian households are now eligible for eviction due to being behind on rent from the pandemic.
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Oct 1, 2021 20:18
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The Glumslinger posted:958 sounds like the "gently caress the LASD" bill, considering they still have a massive cop gang problem and the current sheriff is more interested in harassing the people on the oversight committees than actually dealing with the sheriff gangs The current sheriff is literally in a sheriff gang. Is there a bill about blowing up neighborhoods?
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Oct 1, 2021 21:05
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Foxfire_ posted:Covid vaccine is getting added to mandatory school vaccinations This is great news and should go over really well in Placer.
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Oct 1, 2021 21:11
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Wicked Them Beats posted:That's why the military equipment bill is mildly interesting: losing access to their toys when they piss off the local community is a consequence police leadership might actually care about. But just like the decertification bill it still requires someone actually saying no to the police chief, police unions, and the DA. Very possible we get to three years from now and the police have had all of their murder weapon requests rubber stamped and we're averaging a dozen police decertified a year, with half of those getting their badges back as part of a legal settlement. Six cops losing their badges is pretty optimistic. As with every other law regulating the police, what is the enforcement? Cops aren't going to do it, they're gonna be loyal to other cops. Local governments aren't going to do anything against the heavily armed gang with APCs. The NYPD kidnapped the mayor's daughter at the start of the George Floyd protests and publicly used that against the mayor. Or look at what happened when SFPD wanted more money in 1975. quote:When enraged civilians confronted SFPD officers at the picket lines, the officers arrested them.[7] Heavy drinking on the picket line became common and after striking SFPD officers started shooting out streetlights, the ACLU obtained a court order prohibiting strikers from carrying their service revolvers. Again, the SFPD ignored the court order.[7] On August 20, a bomb detonated at the Mayor's Presidio Terrace home with a sign reading "Don't Threaten Us" left on his lawn.[10] On August 21 Mayor Alioto advised the San Francisco Board of Supervisors that they should concede to the strikers' demands.[10] The Supervisors unanimously refused. Mayor Alioto immediately then declared a state of emergency, assumed legislative powers, and granted the strikers' demands.[11] City Supervisors and residents sued but the court found that a contract obtained through an illegal strike is still legally enforceable.[11] That's not even taking into account that most city councils and mayors have interests that 100% align with the police. The cops are there to protect property, and keep the growing disgruntled underclass in check. The random murders, intimidation, and parading around with military gear is all part of that. While the corruption, random murders, rape, and illicit trades are job perks. Unless the local government has a plan to deal with or survive 30-50 feral hogs getting pissed off over the loss of some toys, that government isn't going to do poo poo once cops start running sirens through their neighborhood all night, and some dogs get shot.
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Oct 1, 2021 21:46
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fermun posted:California's eviction moritorium expired today. 725,000 Californian households are now eligible for eviction due to being behind on rent from the pandemic. I'm currently couch surfing and completely unable to find a place. Every listing that goes up gets 10 responses in the first hour. I really hope things don't spike harder and I get turbo hosed.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:19
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eSporks posted:This really sucks, but any idea what it's going to do to rental prices and vacancies? rent will rise, if anything. especially because most rentals in the state are just sat on as an investment vehicle, so the purpose isn't to make money from rent, it's to tie up loose capital. the companies managing these things tend to charge exactly 'market rate' which has been like 3x any normal person's likely income. as far as actual landlords who need rental income, far more likely that they just charge more than normal to recoup lost profit faster. these people almost always have business owner brain where lost profit = stealing from them, regardless of whether they needed that profit for anything, and thoughts like 'you can't make money if nobody can actually pay you the rent' are secondary st best. Larry Parrish fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 22:38
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Thats what I was afraid of. I've got 10k in the bank, and a car. Trying to think of what other place to move to start over, but nothing looks good.
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Oct 2, 2021 00:16
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fermun posted:California's eviction moritorium expired today. 725,000 Californian households are now eligible for eviction due to being behind on rent from the pandemic. fyi la county goons, several cities, including la, still have enhanced renter protections in place. city of la extended a citywide eviction moratorium for non-payment through october 2022 unincorporated la county doesn't have the same level of protection, but is still blocking evictions for things like unauthorized pets or long term guests if it's pandemic related considering how many renters didn't know their rights when their was a blanket national ban more it's important than ever to spread information about existing protections when all the headlines might make people think that all protections are over everywhere throughout the state
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Oct 2, 2021 01:01
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jetz0r posted:Six cops losing their badges is pretty optimistic. I remember getting into it with a cop friend of mine who did internal affairs and who didn’t see a conflict of interest in investigating officers who you’d then be back on the beat with in six months. Didn’t even register. At a bare minimum internal affairs needs to shuffle cases in areas where there are multiple law enforcement bodies. Have SFPD handle Oakland. Even better, make a board of multiple bodies together with blind cases and civilian oversight. And actual civilians, not retirees.
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Oct 2, 2021 01:31
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