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Silver2195 posted:Yes, it's unfortunate that the Chinese government keeps the number of people it executes a secret! Meanwhile, the number of Americans killed by the state without trial is very well documented, and you won't be surprised to find out who gets targeted (hint: it's ethnic minorities):  Edit: the source is the a PNAS study from 2019 https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793
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Sep 28, 2021 19:50
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Does anyone think it might be worth creating a USA vs China "Who is the shittiest 2021" thread?
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Sep 28, 2021 19:52
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Meanwhile, the number of Americans killed by the state without trial is very well documented, and you won't be surprised to find out who gets targeted (hint: it's ethnic minorities): Yes we know the USA is bad we have a whole subforum dedicated to it. That doesn't make what the Chinese are doing good. For once, I just want a socialist state that doesn't get coopted by right wing reactionaries that have "communism" in their charter tricking a bunch of people into thinking they are good. We should be able to freely criticize the CCP in this thread when they do dumb/evil poo poo without a bunch of posters tripping over themselves to post "BUT Amerikkka is W0rse" bothsidism. Who cares if the USA is worse in X category? That is outside the scope of this thread.
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Sep 28, 2021 20:00
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Daduzi posted:I have no idea. Not sure why that's relevant, though. My general assertion was that ~90% of western reporting about Asia sucks. Your presumptive counter to that was essentially "decent reporting exists", which I never said wasn't the case. It's relevant because it's literally what you were responding to.
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Sep 28, 2021 20:03
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LimburgLimbo posted:My general assertion was that ~90% of western reporting about Asia sucks. Your presumptive counter to that was essentially "decent reporting exists", which I never said wasn't the case. It's relevant because it's literally what you were responding to. Ah, right, my bad. I read "any western/English reporting, for real ANY REPORTING" and kind of glazed over and missed the 90% part. Fair enough, then, though I'd be more generous and say it's closer to 88%.
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Sep 28, 2021 20:11
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Meanwhile, the number of Americans killed by the state without trial is very well documented, and you won't be surprised to find out who gets targeted (hint: it's ethnic minorities): It's obnoxious to see "and you are lynching negros" in this thread over and over. You made a bad, unresearched claim about which country uses the death penalty more, you were proven wrong, don't try to move the goal posts. I also find your response about Xinjiang disingenuous, I don't believe anyone who defends china as much as you are here is ignorant of what's going on there. Let me just ask you straight up: do you believe that uyghurs are being sent to camps, their culture destroyed, slave labor, torture, sterilization, etc?
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Sep 28, 2021 20:23
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Meanwhile, the number of Americans killed by the state without trial is very well documented, and you won't be surprised to find out who gets targeted (hint: it's ethnic minorities): stop writting latinx, you idiots
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Sep 28, 2021 21:00
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Magic Underwear posted:I also find your response about Xinjiang disingenuous, I don't believe anyone who defends china as much as you are here is ignorant of what's going on there. Let me just ask you straight up: do you believe that uyghurs are being sent to camps, their culture destroyed, slave labor, torture, sterilization, etc? Kinda lovely to ask this sort of question when one of the answers will get them instantly banned.
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Sep 28, 2021 22:30
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Daduzi posted:Does anyone think it might be worth creating a USA vs China "Who is the shittiest 2021" thread? Seems like it'd be one big old thread of whataboutism and tankies trying to jack themselves off over how bad America is
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Sep 28, 2021 22:56
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gowb posted:Kinda lovely to ask this sort of question when one of the answers will get them instantly banned. lol
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Sep 28, 2021 22:59
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Magic Underwear posted:It's obnoxious to see "and you are lynching negros" in this thread over and over. You made a bad, unresearched claim about which country uses the death penalty more, you were proven wrong, don't try to move the goal posts. The thing is though "and you are lynching" was never incorrect. That was the ultimate problem with it, it was true and it hurt the conception of one side as "the good guys". And so it gets blamed as being unfair or unsporting or any other thing to try and distract from the fact that it was an accurate view point with some merit to it. It's the same nowadays. Everyone is pointing at the other side and screaming about how awful they are. There is no attempt to go "your right, this does suck and we should change it". It's just constant attack because to admit that our set ups are kind of hosed up would make us kind of hosed up to. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 23:20
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China has 56 ethnic groups (officially, of course the real count would be much higher). Do certain people in this thread think that these groups and their lands have always been, and always will be, part of China and that at no point did an imperialism occur?
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Sep 28, 2021 23:21
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gowb posted:Kinda lovely to ask this sort of question when one of the answers will get them instantly banned. It would be silly to respond to a question that itself breaks the rules, in any case.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:45
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gowb posted:Kinda lovely to ask this sort of question when one of the answers will get them instantly banned. What answer would that be?
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Sep 29, 2021 00:25
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Rabelais D posted:China has 56 ethnic groups (officially, of course the real count would be much higher). Do certain people in this thread think that these groups and their lands have always been, and always will be, part of China and that at no point did an imperialism occur? For additional context, 1 of those 56 ethnic groups makes up over 90% of modern China's population, and is somehow able to commit a mass-stabbing or car attack every 6 months without ever getting classified as a "terrorist" attack.
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Sep 29, 2021 04:27
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The Qin absolutely colonized their neighbours, Machiavelli's The Prince describes the process in which the Qin broadly went about it. Typically you're going to transplant a very large number of your own people into the new country to govern and occupy it; in addition to burning books, and rewriting history so there was never a previous dynasty in control of the land. For a western comparison the Norman conquest of England.
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Sep 29, 2021 04:50
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Xelkelvos posted:Seems like it'd be one big old thread of whataboutism and tankies trying to jack themselves off over how bad America is Yep, that'd be the point. Quarantine.
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Sep 29, 2021 04:55
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Cpt_Obvious posted:It makes me feel bad It is strange how the execution statistics that proved you wrong don't include irrelevant figures that would prove you right (but actually still wrong), yes. Cpt_Obvious posted:But I guess it's important to draw distinctions between civilians killed by a court and those killed without ever reaching trial. We should go to Xinjiang and see if there have been any extrajudicial killings there as well. Just to keep things fair.
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Sep 29, 2021 05:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:The Qin absolutely colonized their neighbours, Machiavelli's The Prince describes the process in which the Qin broadly went about it. Typically you're going to transplant a very large number of your own people into the new country to govern and occupy it; in addition to burning books, and rewriting history so there was never a previous dynasty in control of the land. For a western comparison the Norman conquest of England. *Gestures in the general direction of Tibet*
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Sep 29, 2021 06:24
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Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 16:07
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You're deliberately being this stupid as a gimmick, right?
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Sep 29, 2021 16:35
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/29/abortion-pledge-adds-to-scepticism-over-womens-rights-in-china Abortion pledge adds to scepticism over women’s rights in China quote:Far-reaching proposals from Beijing on “women’s development” have sparked concern over a pledge to reduce abortions, with feminists and academics pointing to the government’s history of control over women’s reproductive rights. The deletion of language that shoulders equal responsibility for contraception on men as on women is pretty wild. That's some real patriarchal revisionism.
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Sep 29, 2021 16:40
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I suppose we will know when documents from provincial health departments invariably leak. This news coverage seems consistent with that concern of a mood shifting against male contraception though speaking of leaks: this is making the internet rounds https://chinadigitaltimes.net/chinese/671510.html quote:Editor’s note: This document was widely circulated on the Internet today by screenshots. It is said to be from the Beijing game industry content management training course. Described). Among them, the main speech of Chen Zhenyu, a review expert of the General Administration (also said to be a senior industry insider), involved a large number of game review case studies, revealing many transparent/opaque operating standards for game review in China. Against the background that the official previously referred to online games/mobile games as "mental opium" and introduced the most stringent "anti-addiction regulations" in history, the document also revealed the prospects for China's increasingly stringent game review. ... the document does suggest a stridently anti-lgbt-content position as the foreseeable future still, rumours, take with salt ronya fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 20:09
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ronya posted:the document does suggest a stridently anti-lgbt-content position as the foreseeable future
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Oct 1, 2021 19:30
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Even with a garbled machine translation you can still get a sense of how absurdly broad the values espoused at that talk are. The below is about how fictional works shouldn't allow people to choose to be evil in any way. quote:The game is no longer pure entertainment, and assumes the function of new media art. More and more content is carried, involving history, anthropology, and sociology. (More and more fields) With too many private goods, values are prone to problems. Value review is the first point of scoring. Prohibited cases:
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Oct 1, 2021 21:53
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yall know its a guidance document, and not a checklist right of course in practice this guidance gives them authority to restrict any content listed if they so choose, but its not a loving guarantee
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Oct 2, 2021 01:09
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A big flaming stink posted:yall know its a guidance document, and not a checklist right It's pretty much a guarantee that game developers in China will be less safe to express themselves and this will create a further chilling effect on creative expression.
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Oct 2, 2021 01:24
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A big flaming stink posted:yall know its a guidance document, and not a checklist right Interesting point of view
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Oct 2, 2021 01:31
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The flip side of course is this will create more demand for non-Chinese media within China. It's one thing to try to censor a book on political liberties, only nerds are going to be reading that, but once your youth start looking abroad for basic entertainment they'll soon discover other things.
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Oct 2, 2021 01:33
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Morrow posted:The flip side of course is this will create more demand for non-Chinese media within China. It's one thing to try to censor a book on political liberties, only nerds are going to be reading that, but once your youth start looking abroad for basic entertainment they'll soon discover other things. Which will mean, given past behavior, stricter controls on non-Chinese media
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Oct 2, 2021 03:22
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Morrow posted:The flip side of course is this will create more demand for non-Chinese media within China. It's one thing to try to censor a book on political liberties, only nerds are going to be reading that, but once your youth start looking abroad for basic entertainment they'll soon discover other things. As Daduzi indicates, China wields considerable control over media that is allowed to be shown inside China; its partly why various corporations self-censor themselves to "appeal to the Chinese market".
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Oct 2, 2021 03:30
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https://uk.news.yahoo.com/china-ban-video-games-featuring-095000133.html More on the strident anti-LGBT portents quote:China to ban video games featuring same-sex relationships, ‘effeminate’ men and moral choices As noted, entirely in line with their homophobia and mandates for gender essentialism / heterosup in broadcast media so far.
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Oct 2, 2021 21:09
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Kavros posted:https://uk.news.yahoo.com/china-ban-video-games-featuring-095000133.html this description of banned TV content is straightup untrue, though; quite a bit of official state media has "effeminate" men performing, even as recently as the last couple weeks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSA7m_2xTgg
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Oct 2, 2021 21:11
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Do you expect such purges to be immediate and observably total? The most noteworthy effects of decrees like that involve graduating pressures and mandates impacting production approval and pipeline, and do not require a lack of any token presence or phase-out. You may have a presence of effeminate men, but is it likely that a producer in China is going to be allowed to feature things like, say, a homosexual couple kissing? Is this more or less likely going forward?
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Oct 2, 2021 21:26
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Kavros posted:is it likely that a producer in China is going to be allowed to feature things like, say, a homosexual couple kissing? Is this more or less likely going forward? I mean, the likelihood was 0 to begin with...
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Oct 2, 2021 21:29
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A big flaming stink posted:this description of banned TV content is straightup untrue, though; quite a bit of official state media has "effeminate" men performing, even as recently as the last couple weeks This isn't really that great of a counterargument though. The people who are in charge of trying to guide the direction of Chinese media aren't idiots, and things don't need to be black and white, and it was never likely they were going to overnight ban everything but macho-man depictions of dudes. The way you get pushback and anger from your populace is by overnight cutting off everything that could possibly be seen as effeminate. Some artist loved by millions? Overnight persona non-grata who can never be in public again!... is going to get people angry, and bring negative attention to policies. What is far more effective is selectively and gradually guiding the tone of media away from depictions they don't like, and having the market adjust and self-regulate. Let the popularity of existing artists mostly naturally wane in time, as they tend to do, place more subtle blocks or advisories about imagery about new artists, etc. Over the course of a few years effeminate men can be less common in media, companies will stop investing their time in artists with effeminate imagery (basically responding to the market and/or offsetting risk of investing resources in artists who might at some point meet disapproval, etc.), and you can guide the tone of media without going into the incredible resource-intensive work of literally banning every depiction that meets some vague guideline. Things become largely self-regulating. So all the people who are saying "hah there's a Chinese statement that says X about "effeminate men" so they're going to start banning gays everywhere!" Are missing the point. And all the people who say "hah here's an example of an "effeminate man" in media so clearly nothing will happen!!" Are also missing the point. What matters ultimately is the actual execution of their stated goals of reducing some of those depictions, how they'd deal with pushback, what it could mean functionally for communities like LGBT who might be impacted, whether it could be the beginning of a slide downward towards more open/legal/systemic oppression of minority groups, etc. But that's all a far more complicated discussion than trading "gotchas" so it's hard to have an actul productive conversation about that.
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Oct 2, 2021 21:31
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LimburgLimbo posted:This isn't really that great of a counterargument though. The people who are in charge of trying to guide the direction of Chinese media aren't idiots, and things don't need to be black and white, and it was never likely they were going to overnight ban everything but macho-man depictions of dudes. the line in the article was specifically quote:China recently banned ‘sissy’ effeminate men from TV so what I am saying is that I am extremely distrustful of an article that uses such language
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Oct 2, 2021 21:33
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That's nitpicking though, and doesn't have any bearing on the accuracy of the rest of the reporting.
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Oct 2, 2021 21:36
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A big flaming stink posted:this description of banned TV content is straightup untrue, though; quite a bit of official state media has "effeminate" men performing, even as recently as the last couple weeks drat you found a single counter example, I guess the widely reported crackdown (and from the chinese government itself) isn't happening??
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Oct 2, 2021 21:37
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A big flaming stink posted:the line in the article was specifically Why are you so desperate to defend the government that is being upfront about it's views on enforcing specific views of gender and sexuality.
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Oct 2, 2021 22:09
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