[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

https://twitter.com/nise_yoshimi/status/1443777124825927682

wtf did nobody tell the editor you're suppose to make the background a hellscape

# ? Oct 1, 2021 21:40

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# ? May 15, 2024 22:12

FrancisFukyomama: Feb 4, 2019

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

https://twitter.com/nise_yoshimi/status/1443777124825927682

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlPr2KHSFo

# ? Oct 1, 2021 23:36

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

Shear Modulus posted:

military planners wanted to be able to launch ICBMs off of trains for the same reason they wanted to be able to launch them from submarines: so they could have a launch platform that moved and that the enemy wouldn't be able to have a constant target on like they can with a bunker

yup. the main point of a solid fuel rocket is that it's already fueled and ready to go when a launch decision is made, whereas liquid fueled rockets aren't actually fueled until just before launch so the process takes longer

# ? Oct 2, 2021 00:49

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

dead gay comedy forums posted:

the first thing I thought about Havana Syndrome is how it must have been one hell of a yarn from a spy who hosed up but was a dulles level bumbling arrogant thinks-knows-it-all reporting

get ready for some loving lols

quote:

Noises linked to mysterious injuries among US diplomats in Cuba were most likely caused by crickets � not microwave weapons � according to a declassified scientific review commissioned by the US State Department and obtained by BuzzFeed News.

The State Department report was written by the JASON advisory group, an elite scientific board that has reviewed US national security concerns since the Cold War. It was completed in November of 2018, two years after dozens of US diplomats in Cuba and their families reported hearing buzzing noises and then experiencing puzzling neurological injuries, including pain, vertigo, and difficulty concentrating.

The report, obtained by BuzzFeed News via a Freedom of Information Act request, was originally classified as �secret.� It concluded that the sounds accompanying at least eight of the original 21 Havana syndrome incidents were �most likely� caused by insects. That same scientific review also judged it �highly unlikely� that microwaves or ultrasound beams � now widely proposed by US government officials to explain the injuries � were involved in the incidents. And though the report didn�t definitively conclude what caused the injuries themselves, it found that �psychogenic� mass psychology effects may have played a role.

�No plausible single source of energy (neither radio/microwaves nor sonic) can produce both the recorded audio/video signals and the reported medical effects,� the JASON report concluded. �We believe the recorded sounds are mechanical or biological in origin, rather than electronic. The most likely source is the Indies short-tailed cricket.�

The report�s findings fly in the face of a medical report commissioned by the State Department and published by a National Academies of Sciences panel last year, which found that microwaves were the �most plausible� cause of the symptoms. That panel was not provided with the JASON report as part of its assessment, the NAS told BuzzFeed News.

�We are grateful to the JASON Group for their insight, which while coming to no firm conclusions, has assisted us in our ongoing investigation of these incidents,� a State Department spokesperson told BuzzFeed News in an emailed statement. The spokesperson declined to answer questions about why the panel�s findings were never made public or provided to the NAS.

"The 2018 JASON report, which was commissioned during the last administration, is not aligned with the Biden-Harris administration�s understanding of AHI [anomalous health incidents] and it has not informed our response," said a senior administration official, in a statement sent to BuzzFeed News.

"Because of the acknowledged shortcomings of previous studies, this administration has purposefully established a new panel of experts from across the Intelligence Community, academia, and the private sector with access to the full range of information available to the government to help us determine the cause of these incidents and generate new insights that can help protect our personnel.�

From China to Washington, DC, around 200 possible Havana syndrome incidents have been reported worldwide since the initial cases described in the JASON report. More cases have surfaced since US intelligence agencies began conducting a review of what are now called �anomalous health incidents� and after the Defense Department asked its personnel worldwide to report suspected cases in September. In recent weeks, cases have reportedly struck an intelligence officer traveling with CIA director William Burns in India, led Vice President Kamala Harris to delay a trip to Vietnam, and triggered the recall of a CIA station chief in Vienna.

On Tuesday, the US House of Representatives voted 427�0 to pass a �Havana Act� bill compensating CIA and State Department personnel affected by such incidents. News reports have widely blamed Russian spies randomly targeting CIA and State Department personnel with microwave weapons � and attributed this view to senior US officials.

The JASON report provided a far less elaborate explanation. The team was given eight recordings of incidents linked to injuries and performed an extensive analysis of two cellphone video recordings from one patient. After extensive comparison with recordings of various insect species, they concluded with �high confidence� that the sounds in that case came from a particularly loud species of cricket, Anurogryllis celerinictus. (Two academic researchers who ran a similar analysis in 2019 using a recording provided by the Associated Press also concluded that the sound was caused by crickets.) The JASON scientists offered another �low confidence� theory that the sounds could have been caused by a nearby concrete vibrating machine with worn bearings.

The review ruled out pulsed microwaves and ultrasound as culprits, in part because the Wi-Fi and other electronics in the house where the noises were first recorded worked fine during the incident. And by calculating the power required for such attacks, they concluded that the noises didn�t correspond to ones generated by microwave or ultrasound frequencies.

But the JASON scientists left open the possibility of some other nefarious attack. �It cannot be ruled out that while the perceived sounds, while not harmful, are introduced by an adversary as deception so as to mask an entirely unrelated mode of causing illness,� the report concludes in its executive summary.

�JASON puts to rest the �microwave attack� theory,� University of Pennsylvania biomedical engineer Kenneth Foster told BuzzFeed News. �While we can�t rule out the idea that somebody might have been trying to harass the US officers, the idea that these were attacks intended to cause injury is supported neither by a smoking gun nor by clearly identified victims.�

The NAS report from last year argued that since microwaves can trigger a painless inner ear noise called the Frey effect, they were the �most plausible� explanation for the illnesses. The JASON report analyzed the same phenomenon, but dismissed microwaves as an option. �We judge as highly unlikely the notion that pulsed RF [radiofrequency] mimics acoustic signals in both the brain (via the Frey effect) and in electronics,� the report concludes.

NAS panel report chairman David Relman of the Stanford University School of Medicine did not respond to an emailed request for comment on the JASON report from BuzzFeed News.

James Lin, a University of Illinois biomedical engineer who has argued that the microwave explanation for the injuries is very likely, told BuzzFeed News that the recordings of incidents analyzed in the JASON report provided by at least eight victims could not have come from real cases of Havana Syndrome. �A typical sound recorder would not be able to record the �microwave sound�, period,� he said by email, after reviewing the JASON report�s findings.

A mainstay of the national security arena for decades, JASON contains the nation�s brightest technical minds. �This is a high powered group of expert scientists examining this question,� said former Los Alamos National Laboratory chemist Cheryl Rofer. �This appears to be a very thorough scientific analysis, the kind which wasn�t done in the National Academies of Sciences report.�

Similar to a previously undisclosed 2019 CDC report on Havana syndrome, which was first reported this year by BuzzFeed News, the JASON report notes that without baseline medical data on the diplomats prior to the injuries, determining their actual cause is unlikely.

The scientists also noted that, while �the suffering reported by the affected individuals is real,� mass psychology can also trigger neurological injuries in people. �JASON believes such psychogenic effects may serve to explain important components of the reported injuries.�

Stigma and international politics play a role in why the mass psychology theory hasn�t been taken more seriously in the US. Meanwhile, just this month, the Cuban Academy of Sciences published a report concluding that mass psychology is the best explanation for the incidents.

While much of the released report is redacted, perhaps due to the reported involvement of CIA agents in some cases, the conclusions are clear, Rofer said.

�What is available in the report is pretty dubious about directed energy weapons,� she said, �and pretty positive about crickets.� ●

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/havana-syndrome-jason-crickets

# ? Oct 2, 2021 04:59

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010

*crickets*

# ? Oct 2, 2021 05:01

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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I wonder how many American teapots are in the vicinity of Pluto by now

# ? Oct 2, 2021 05:14

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/javihagen/status/1442669236099239940

quote:

In a few days I will leave journalism, at least temporarily, after more than 30 years of profession. The embarrassing information war against #China has taken a good dose of my illusion for this job, which until now had survived not a few conflicts and other niceties.

I came to #China, like any other destination, trying to keep an open mind and free of prejudices and preconceptions. I have always believed that curiosity and the capacity for wonder, together with rigor and loyalty to the truth, are the basic elements of journalism.

What I found surprised me. On the one hand, a huge, diverse and constantly transforming country, full of stories to tell. An innovative, modern and traditional place at the same time, in which the future is glimpsed and the destiny of humanity is at stake in some way.

On the other, a story from the foreign press - the vast majority - deeply biased, which constantly follows in the wake of what the US media and the US State Department want to tell us, no matter what happens.

In this information, full of common places, there is almost no room for surprise, nor for a minimum truthful analysis of what happens here. There is no place to delve into the historical, social or cultural keys. Everything China does must by definition be negative.

Informational manipulation is flagrant, with dozens of examples on a daily basis. Anyone who dares to confront her or try to maintain moderately objective and impartial positions will be accused of being in the pay of the Chinese government or worse. The slightest discrepancy is not tolerated.

The powers that be promoting the very dangerous drift of confrontation with China leave nothing to chance. Its apparently invisible threads reach the most unsuspected places. Anyone who strays from the marked path will be pushed aside or marginalized.

The much proclaimed Western totem of "free press" thus receives, paradoxically reflected, its most stark image in China: free press to say exactly the same thing, not to go out of the pre-established script, to emphasize again and again how bad the " communism".

Even policies that should serve as an example, such as reforestation, unparalleled, or the exit from poverty of 800 million people, always carry the everlasting tagline of "but at what cost", which the Anglo-Saxon media use ad nauseam when reporting about #China.

There is talk endlessly about Chinese propaganda, which is self-evident because it is so obvious. But nothing from the US, much more subtle, less detectable and, therefore, more effective: the reader believes that an opinion is being formed based on his own criteria, without anyone pushing him to do so.

Arrogance and a hidden superiority complex are the daily bread when approaching an unknown civilization, with a radically different evolution, which cannot be judged with the usual American or European parameters without trying to open the focus.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 06:55

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

https://twitter.com/javihagen/status/1442669236099239940

he�s right

# ? Oct 2, 2021 07:00

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

dead gay comedy forums posted:

get ready for some loving lols

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/havana-syndrome-jason-crickets

lmao

# ? Oct 2, 2021 07:56

THS2: Oct 2, 2021

China

# ? Oct 2, 2021 09:44

wynott dunn: Aug 9, 2006; What is to be done?

Who or what can challenge, and stand a chance at beating, the corporate juggernauts dominating the world?

Havana club syndrome at dusk, listening to the crickets

# ? Oct 2, 2021 10:12

THS2: Oct 2, 2021

it owns that there's an instance of mass hysteria at the state dept, and even the FBI when asked to look at it said it was mass hysteria, but if you go on the ArsTechnica boards or Reddit, everyone is absolutely eating up that spooks are getting secret communist mind-rays from Enemies. There's absolutely no ability to even posit for a moment that State Dept people are having headaches and diarrhea for any other reason than the microwave gun.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 10:17

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

https://twitter.com/lunch_enjoyer/status/1430358066210525185?s=20

# ? Oct 2, 2021 10:45

brugroffil: Nov 30, 2015

I thought the intercept or somebody reported on that crickets thing years ago

# ? Oct 2, 2021 11:55

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

yeah it was always the initial explanation

# ? Oct 2, 2021 11:59

Goast: Jul 23, 2011; by VideoGames

that honestly makes less sense than microwave beams

im surrounded by crickets every night how is that supposed to make anyone feel the symptoms they claim to have

# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:07

IAMKOREA: Apr 21, 2007

Maybe it was microwave mind beams after, just what we didn't realize is that they were used on the crickets to make them extra powerful chirpers.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:18

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

Goast posted:

that honestly makes less sense than microwave beams

im surrounded by crickets every night how is that supposed to make anyone feel the symptoms they claim to have

One of the symptoms of Havana Syndrome is not knowing you have Havana Syndrome.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:20

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

Goast posted:

that honestly makes less sense than microwave beams

im surrounded by crickets every night how is that supposed to make anyone feel the symptoms they claim to have

big city people hearing actual nature for the first time and falling into a coma

# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:40

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Goast posted:

that honestly makes less sense than microwave beams

im surrounded by crickets every night how is that supposed to make anyone feel the symptoms they claim to have

incredibly loud cicadas making noise to people who're not used to it so they get a headache and sleep like poo poo. everything else just got added on because they're probably all hungover from drinking through it

# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:43

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

brugroffil posted:

I thought the intercept or somebody reported on that crickets thing years ago

yeah there was more than one study and everyone said "this recording of this weapon you claim, this is just loving crickets". and yet, they persist

here's one from almost 3 years ago lol https://phys.org/news/2019-01-cuban-crickets-weapon-heard-ill.html

# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:43

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

THS2 posted:

it owns that there's an instance of mass hysteria at the state dept, and even the FBI when asked to look at it said it was mass hysteria, but if you go on the ArsTechnica boards or Reddit, everyone is absolutely eating up that spooks are getting secret communist mind-rays from Enemies. There's absolutely no ability to even posit for a moment that State Dept people are having headaches and diarrhea for any other reason than the microwave gun.

"We techbros don't hate the Chinese, only the CCP"

# ? Oct 2, 2021 12:47

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1444096713099137024?s=21

# ? Oct 2, 2021 13:04

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011; Can't post for 6 hours!

https://mobile.twitter.com/koryodynasty/status/1443744218329993219

# ? Oct 2, 2021 13:16

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

THS2 posted:

it owns that there's an instance of mass hysteria at the state dept, and even the FBI when asked to look at it said it was mass hysteria, but if you go on the ArsTechnica boards or Reddit, everyone is absolutely eating up that spooks are getting secret communist mind-rays from Enemies. There's absolutely no ability to even posit for a moment that State Dept people are having headaches and diarrhea for any other reason than the microwave gun.

i think its a public service to encourage the CIA to have weird delusions

# ? Oct 2, 2021 13:26

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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Some Guy TT posted:

Captain Obvious poo poo

What do you mean by customers don't want to be ripped off by tourist traps and sellers by exorbitant rents from landlords?

How is this bad communism allowed to happen

# ? Oct 2, 2021 13:34

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

Philippine President Duterte announces �retirement from politics�

Huh.

Didn't see that coming.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 14:53

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

OhFunny posted:

Philippine President Duterte announces �retirement from politics�

Huh.

Didn't see that coming.

paging Gradenko, Gradenko report asap

# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:02

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Palladium posted:

"We techbros don't hate the Chinese, only the CCP"

genocide bad
also, we should murder the ccp which has 100 million members

:thunkher:

# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:16

wynott dunn: Aug 9, 2006; What is to be done?

Who or what can challenge, and stand a chance at beating, the corporate juggernauts dominating the world?

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1444096713099137024?s=21

# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:17

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

Biden’s top trade advisor will say China isn’t complying with phase 1 deal reached under Trump, according to sources

quote:

U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai will announce Monday that China is not complying with the so-called phase one trade deal reached under former President Donald Trump’s administration, sources familiar with the matter told CNBC’s Kayla Tausche.

quote:

It is unclear how the USTR will respond. Sources told CNBC that the USTR is evaluating potential actions against China for its non-compliance, including possible additional tariffs

lol tumrp

# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:23

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

dead gay comedy forums posted:

paging Gradenko, Gradenko report asap

okay, I may have mentioned this before, but Duterte was threatening (my word) for months and months that he was going to run for Vice President, and then his daughter, Sara Duterte, would run for President, and that would do a full-court press on the Executive branch

Sara has repeatedly claimed that she does NOT want to run for President, and indeed today filed a candidacy for a third term as Mayor of Davao City

also, Bong Go, Duterte's right-hand man, who was also rumored to be running for President (with Rodrigo Duterte as VP, since Sara denied wanting to run for President) did file a candidacy today, for Vice President, but without an identified running mate

so to reiterate, a bunch of poo poo is up in the air:

* Rodrigo Duterte says he's retiring, when people expected him to run for VP
* Sara Duterte has filed a candidacy to run for Mayor of Davao city, when people expected her to run for President
* Bong Go has filed a candidacy to run for Vice President, when people expected him to run for President, but also he doesn't have a running mate, when it would presumably be Sara Duterte

what throws a spanner into all of this is the loophole in our candidacy-filing process: parties can file for a SUBSTITUTION of their candidate up to a month after the official deadline of filing for candidacies

https://www.rappler.com/nation/elections/explainer-rodrigo-duterte-president-substitution

during the 2016 campaign, this is exactly what happened: Martin Di�o (a low-level politico) filed as the presidential candidate for the PDP-Laban party (Duterte's party), and Rodrigo Duterte himself filed as a candidate to run for Mayor of Davao City. The official deadline of Oct 16, 2015 came and went... and the Duterte campaign used the intervening month to build hype for Duterte's campaign, with pundits pointing out that the substitution loophole existed, and then wondering if Duterte was going to take it

the substitution deadline was Dec 10, 2015, and on that very day, Duterte rode a private jet from Davao to Manila, and filed to replace Martin Di�o as PDP-Laban's candidate, in the final office hours before the government offices closed. It was part of the whole "the people demanded that Duterte be their president" mystique of his early campaign

this is why I wouldn't trust ANYTHING coming out from the official candidacy filings until, like, Christmas 2021. No Duterte for President, no Duterte for VP, Bong Go on his lonesome makes zero sense. I could kind of believe Rodrigo Duterte finally retiring, but only if Sara Duterte were to run for the top spot.

___

by the by, we're also still waiting on whether Bongbong Marcos is going to run for office, and whether Leni Robredo is going to run for office. The official period for filing of candidacies runs until October 8, 2021 (and then the aforementioned substitution loophole carries on for another month after that), so there's still more maneuvering and drama to come.

I might expand on this further once the dust settles

# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:33

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

THS2 posted:

China

Welcome back dude, I missed you.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:56

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

People only seem to be afflicted with Havana syndrome in countries that the US considers enemies, really makes you wonder. :thunk:

# ? Oct 2, 2021 15:57

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

THS2 posted:

China

Ayy wb

# ? Oct 2, 2021 16:12

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

gradenko_2000 posted:

okay, I may have mentioned this before, but Duterte was threatening (my word) for months and months that he was going to run for Vice President, and then his daughter, Sara Duterte, would run for President, and that would do a full-court press on the Executive branch

...

Ok, booking that private jet right now lol.

Also, can Duterte pinch hit for BONGO's VP spot? Do you guys understand baseball lingo over there?

# ? Oct 2, 2021 16:12

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

stephenthinkpad posted:

Ok, booking that private jet right now lol.

Also, can Duterte pinch hit for BONGO's VP spot? Do you guys understand baseball lingo over there?

I understand baseball lingo, but probably not everyone would lol

Duterte MIGHT be able to sub-in for Go, but when they did it in 2015 part of the "trick" was that Martin Dino was about to be disqualified for being a "nuisance candidate" on the basis that he couldn't possibly run a campaign since he was a nobody with no resources and no campaign machinery

That wouldn't apply here since Go is a sitting Senator

# ? Oct 2, 2021 16:56

Fleetwood: Mar 26, 2010; biggest hochul head in china

maybe the crickets are controlling the microwave beams, hasn't anyone seen Phase IV?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcs3_b3VXSU&t=97s

# ? Oct 2, 2021 18:11

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Fleetwood posted:

maybe the crickets are controlling the microwave beams, hasn't anyone seen Phase IV?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcs3_b3VXSU&t=97s

This reminded me of a MKULTRA documentary that said the whole thing was started to counter/emulate a working Soviet mind control program that actually never existed.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 18:28

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# ? May 15, 2024 22:12

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Palladium posted:

This reminded me of a MKULTRA documentary that said the whole thing was started to counter/emulate a working Soviet mind control program that actually never existed.

Yeah basically the US used chemical and biological warfare in Korea, then POWs testified to it, the US denied it and accused the Soviets of having brainwashed these troops into bearing false witness, and then convinced themselves that if the Soviets could brainwash people into lying about US activities in Korea, that they should be able to do that too, and MKULTRA was part of those programs to replicate this alleged Soviet brainwashing

Of course, the POWs were NOT lying because the US actually was doing what they said they were doing

# ? Oct 2, 2021 18:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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