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Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay? This poll is closed. |
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Seph posted:Did you really have a months-old post lined up waiting to quote as soon as September passed? Even for this thread that's pretty sad. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 2, 2021 14:48
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It seems really weird to me that now that the 7 trillion dollar most progressive deal in history has been whittled down to a pittance, we all need to accept it because any table scraps are better then nothing, right? But there was never any reason to whittle down the deal because the only people that want to whittle it down are in your party. It seems like the party should have some kind of better apparatus for this kind of thing so they could pass good legislature, if that's what they intended, instead of hamstringing themselves for no real reason. Anyway I'm really excited to vote for the Democrats next time around so they can keep passing good bills in a timely and efficient manner.
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Oct 2, 2021 14:50
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selec posted:There are better ways of getting money, but if she’s taking a payoff to protect capital she didn’t pick a dumb one. I am really curious about this insistence that she must be stupid rather than venal. Why is this falling along the usual lines of leftists vs liberals in the thread? What is the insistence that it must be stupidity say, or is it just a deflection from the implications that come from the possibility of corruption? If it’s corruption, it reifies the sense of political powerlessness that is characteristic in our country right now. And that’s a huge downer! So instead maybe we just call her stupid, somebody who doesn’t understand the defensible system we all live under, a problem that will correct itself if we can just get this stupid woman out of the way. Sinema's current schtick is stupid =/= Sinema is stupid. I don't know Sinema. Maybe she's really clever. Sometimes someone can be an absolute pro at something and still make a bone headed play. I think this thing she's doing vis a vis the reconciliation bill would have played a lot better 20 years ago when there were still ticket splitters and people who go back and forth from D to R based on the candidate. She can be misreading what made McCain popular and misreading the political environment without being an actual stupid person or whatever. My read is that 1) she is more conservative than the median D Senator and wants a smaller bill AND 2) her grandstanding about this was misguided and she didn't leave herself a convenient offramp. Is Sinema serving capital? Of course. She's a senator. The vast majority of the Democratic caucus also serves capital. And yet, about 48 of them at least want this bill to pass. selec posted:It’s wild to me that folks believe this is about personalities and not trillions of dollars of economic options that the ruling class want to see steered to their benefit. If 48 Democratic senators want the bill to pass and Manchin and Sinema are the ones that are corrupt enough to derail this by taking a pay off - isn't that also an analysis based on personalities? If every person was just a class interest robot with a 'beep boop does this maximize return for capital beep boop' program running we wouldn't even be this far into the dialog about the reconciliation bill. selec posted:But I suspect she’ll have a golden parachute no matter what happens. This is true of anyone currently serving in the Senate. selec posted:It’s really a Rorschach test for what you think of the system we have to live under; is it essentially ok if people would just play by the rules, or is it just a beard on a brutal class system? This is an enormous stretch with absolutely no evidence or basis in reality. Here, let me prove you wrong: I'm one of the people saying Sinema's actions on this are (at least in part) based on a clumsy and stupid political miscalculation and that the Democrats will eventually pass a reconciliation bill. I also do not believe that the system we have to live under is "essentially OK" and that we do in fact have a brutal class system.
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Oct 2, 2021 14:51
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Been ignoring politics for a while as part of a much needed mental health break so I just want to ask a quick question, has anything meaningful and good happened on the federal level since, say, beginning of summer? Dont care about bad stuff or stuff that hasnt happened or might happen, just hoping for a spot of good news before I disappear again.
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Oct 2, 2021 14:54
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GlyphGryph posted:Been ignoring politics for a while as part of a much needed mental health break so I just want to ask a quick question, has anything meaningful and good happened on the federal level since, say, beginning of summer? Dont care about bad stuff or stuff that hasnt happened or might happen, just hoping for a spot of good news before I disappear again. we left Afghanistan
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Oct 2, 2021 14:57
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Sinema's approval rating in AZ is in the 20s so yes, she is a terrible politician by the most basic metric. Spiking a lifelong career as a US senator in less than a year is not the action of an intelligent or capable person. Whatever golden parachute she's been promised is far lesser than the influence and money she could have amassed over decades of gladhanding by simply keeping her head down.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:01
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rscott posted:Y'all have the memory of a gold fish so it's a pretty good idea to bring up all the confident projections made in the spring and summer about how much Democrats are going to get done so we can see how far the goalposts have been moved We are barely two days into October and the bills still have a decent chance of passing in the next couple of days, despite all the doomposting going on in this thread. It just comes across as desperate for an own to pull up a months-old post and go "well technically it's October heh" when negotiations are actively happening and the bills could still very easily be passed (despite being a few days after EW's predictions).
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Oct 2, 2021 15:09
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https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1444272829759959042?s=19 So in the end we're going to get an infrastructure bill that's a net negative for the environment and maybe some scraps thrown to seniors and the poor, if they aren't means tested into uselessness
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Oct 2, 2021 15:10
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rscott posted:https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1444272829759959042?s=19 Maybe! But also maybe not. Manchin hasn't been anywhere near consistent on this supposed 1.5t topline. Doomerizing about the tiny bill we're going to get doesn't make the bill any larger or influence the outcome in any way. I don't think there's a ton of value in getting all that invested in speculation from the media here.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:21
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Seph posted:the bills still have a decent chance of passing in the next couple of days in a massively cut form that fucks over the most vulnerable people and pisses away even the vaguest attempt at any sort of climate action, sure, i totally believe it could pass in the next couple of days in terms of them passing in a way that will meaningfully improve the lives of regular-rear end people and take climate change even remotely seriously? lmfao sure yeah ok i totally believe that'll happen after the democrats have spent my entire adult life actively fighting against both of those things. i totally buy that this time will be different and we totally won't see them pull another 'whoopsie doodle we tried but a particularly stubborn member of congress sunk it all, guess you all get to eat a poo poo sandwich again, nothing we could do! v  v'
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Oct 2, 2021 15:29
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rscott posted:https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1444272829759959042?s=19 Faced with the threat of climate change and the catastrophes that have been happening just this year, the democrats are coming up really, really short. Hell, isn’t Biden still authorizing drilling permits?
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Oct 2, 2021 15:29
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I'm a little alarmed at the glee in this thread that Krysten Sinema will be unseated in 2024. Her approval numbers are in the toilet, sure. But we do realize that if she were to be replaced, it would likely be by a fascist. Sinema can be difficult to work with, but at least she takes meetings with Biden instead of saying that he's drinking the blood of children or some poo poo. I think people's energy would be better focused toward "elect more Democrats and make Sinema unimportant" rather than "acceleration machine go brrrr" by fantasizing about her losing her seat. Someone earlier in the thread (I don't want to call them out) said they were thinking of not voting for her. Don't do this. When it really comes down to it, I hope Arizona Dems will do the right thing and not the accelerationist thing that "feels good."
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Oct 2, 2021 15:31
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My Government just signed off on a €165bn infrastructure package. If you per-capita adjusted that to the population of the US it would be the equivalent of about $13tn, and yet it passed with only minor backroom debates about the balance of public transport vs road investment, and its not even on the frontpage of the main news websites. And still, we are a loving joke for public transport and infrastructure delivery compared to most of Europe... The US then, is hosed to an extent it's truly hard to fully conceptualize. The imperial decline is hitting hard now
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Oct 2, 2021 15:32
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I'm a little alarmed at the glee in this thread that Krysten Sinema will be unseated in 2024. Her approval numbers are in the toilet, sure. But we do realize that if she were to be replaced, it would likely be by a fascist. Sinema can be difficult to work with, but at least she takes meetings with Biden instead of saying that he's drinking the blood of children or some poo poo. I think people's energy would be better focused toward "elect more Democrats and make Sinema unimportant" rather than "acceleration machine go brrrr" by fantasizing about her losing her seat. Someone earlier in the thread (I don't want to call them out) said they were thinking of not voting for her. Don't do this. Electing more Democrats is a prerequisite for ditching Sinema, they aren't mutually exclusive quote:When it really comes down to it, I hope Arizona Dems will do the right thing and not the accelerationist thing that "feels good." The "right thing" here would be to eliminate her in the primary and then win the general, not just unseat her and then everyone relaxes and goes home
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Oct 2, 2021 15:36
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I'm a little alarmed at the glee in this thread that Krysten Sinema will be unseated in 2024. Her approval numbers are in the toilet, sure. But we do realize that if she were to be replaced, it would likely be by a fascist. Sinema can be difficult to work with, but at least she takes meetings with Biden instead of saying that he's drinking the blood of children or some poo poo. I think people's energy would be better focused toward "elect more Democrats and make Sinema unimportant" rather than "acceleration machine go brrrr" by fantasizing about her losing her seat. Someone earlier in the thread (I don't want to call them out) said they were thinking of not voting for her. Don't do this. pretty sure most people more expect her to lose her primary challenge, not lose her seat in a general election to a republican however that's still optimistic as hell since the dnc will absolutely back her and throw shitloads of money at her to help her win her primary
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Oct 2, 2021 15:36
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Sinema is just securing her future in the corporate world. It’s not that hard to figure out. She knows she either wins re-election and remains a senator for a while longer or even better gets removed and makes millions giving speeches to the pharma industry. There is no down side for her.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:40
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I understand that much of the Sinema theorizing is about a mythical electable progressive primary candidate emerging in barely-light-blue Arizona, and that's fine. But a contentious primary might hurt the candidates in the general, and in a state with as narrow of margins as Arizona (Biden only won by a little over 10,000 votes) that could very easily lead to another fascist in the Senate. I just hope that in the primary process we remember not to savage other Democrats and, if in fact Sinema does end up the Democratic nominee, that everyone leaves the past in the past so that we don't end up with another chud fascist in the Senate.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:43
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theCalamity posted:Faced with the threat of climate change and the catastrophes that have been happening just this year, the democrats are coming up really, really short. Hell, isn’t Biden still authorizing drilling permits? The Biden Admin is fighting them in court because a bunch of red states sued over the permit freeze. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/oil-industry-groups-sue-biden-administration-over-leasing-pause-2021-08-16/
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Oct 2, 2021 15:46
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Fancy Pelosi posted:But a contentious primary might hurt the candidates in the general, is there evidence of this happening? people said this about 2016 but it didnt ever real come with evidence.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:46
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punishedkissinger posted:is there evidence of this happening? people said this about 2016 but it didnt ever real come with evidence. If anything Trump emerged from a far more contentious primary and won the general.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:47
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punishedkissinger posted:is there evidence of this happening? people said this about 2016 but it didnt ever real come with evidence. I don't want to relitigate 2016 but yes, Hillary Clinton did in fact lose to Trump after a contentious primary despite being obviously far more qualified for the job.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:48
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I understand that much of the Sinema theorizing is about a mythical electable progressive primary candidate emerging in barely-light-blue Arizona, and that's fine. But a contentious primary might hurt the candidates in the general, and in a state with as narrow of margins as Arizona (Biden only won by a little over 10,000 votes) that could very easily lead to another fascist in the Senate. I just hope that in the primary process we remember not to savage other Democrats and, if in fact Sinema does end up the Democratic nominee, that everyone leaves the past in the past so that we don't end up with another chud fascist in the Senate. I dont understand why people are gnashing their teeth about Sinema here. By her next election you're all going to say vote blue no matter who.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:50
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Raccooon posted:If anything Trump emerged from a far more contentious primary and won the general. great point! this sort or handwringing about primaries always comes across to me as an explicit demand to not publicly criticize democrats. obviously republicans are worse but if we followed this line of reasoning there would be nothing preventing democrats from drifting right even more. Fancy Pelosi posted:I don't want to relitigate 2016 but yes, Hillary Clinton did in fact lose to Trump after a contentious primary despite being obviously far more qualified for the job. right but is there evidence that the contentious primary caused this? i have not seen it if there is. i'm sure there are other examples that could be drawn from. punishedkissinger fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Oct 2, 2021 |
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Oct 2, 2021 15:50
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I understand that much of the Sinema theorizing is about a mythical electable progressive primary candidate emerging in barely-light-blue Arizona, and that's fine. But a contentious primary might hurt the candidates in the general, and in a state with as narrow of margins as Arizona (Biden only won by a little over 10,000 votes) that could very easily lead to another fascist in the Senate. I just hope that in the primary process we remember not to savage other Democrats and, if in fact Sinema does end up the Democratic nominee, that everyone leaves the past in the past so that we don't end up with another chud fascist in the Senate. sinema and manchin are actively holding the democrats back from ensuring chud fascists don't literally steal elections in 2024, them being out on their asses and replaced by chuds will fundamentally change absolutely nothing about the trajectory of this country Fancy Pelosi posted:I don't want to relitigate 2016 but yes, Hillary Clinton did in fact lose to Trump after a contentious primary despite being obviously far more qualified for the job. hillary's campaign also boosted trump during the republican primary because she was sure he'd be the easiest candidate to beat, so perhaps her and her campaign team just had absolutely no loving idea what the poo poo they were doing on any level during that entire shitshow
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Oct 2, 2021 15:53
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Media harping on emails and comey dropping his letter about emails days before the election probably had way more of an impact on that election than a contentious primary. Race was so close that without that Comey letter she would probably have been President.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:58
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:sinema and manchin are actively holding the democrats back from ensuring chud fascists don't literally steal elections in 2024, them being out on their asses and replaced by chuds will fundamentally change absolutely nothing about the trajectory of this country I don't know, I think Manchin and Sinema doing their weird little dances before ultimately voting in favor of bills like the American Rescue Plan is a little better than two more fascists in the Senate. This is what we mean when we talk about accelerationism.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:01
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I'm a little alarmed at the glee in this thread that Krysten Sinema will be unseated in 2024. Her approval numbers are in the toilet, sure. But we do realize that if she were to be replaced, it would likely be by a fascist. Sinema can be difficult to work with, but at least she takes meetings with Biden instead of saying that he's drinking the blood of children or some poo poo. I think people's energy would be better focused toward "elect more Democrats and make Sinema unimportant" rather than "acceleration machine go brrrr" by fantasizing about her losing her seat. Someone earlier in the thread (I don't want to call them out) said they were thinking of not voting for her. Don't do this. Is this a gimmick account or are we meant to read this as serious talk made by serious posters? Like is there actually a line that anyone with a D by their name can cross? If the "moderate" republicans decided to swap parties would you celebrate them?
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Oct 2, 2021 16:03
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Raccooon posted:Race was so close that without that Comey letter she would probably have been President. Remember when Comey got Trump elected, then was suddenly the only one who could protect the US from trump, then when he got sacked he was suddenly the hero that would take down trump. Every time I lol like with W being re-written as a reasonable Republican. Skyl3lazer posted:Is this a gimmick account or are we meant to read this as serious talk made by serious posters? It would be nice if we can have a rule against “vote blue no matter who” talk. It is usually disingenuous and used as a means to dissuade people from talking about other available options. I’ve seen too many “oh you must be so privileged” as a means to shut down debate and attempt to guilt people for pointing out the flaws of a Democratic member that have real negative impacts on America and the world. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Oct 2, 2021 |
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Oct 2, 2021 16:03
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Personally, if we aren't going to get anything of note done with global warming, then ya, I hope Sinema is replaced by a lunatic. My future is already going to be a hellscape, I want the boomers to experience it too. I want every coastal city full of corporate headquarters to suffer immensely. I don't give a poo poo anymore. gently caress Sinema and Manchin, gently caress the Democrats.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:08
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I don't know, I think Manchin and Sinema doing their weird little dances before ultimately voting in favor of bills like the American Rescue Plan is a little better than two more fascists in the Senate. This is what we mean when we talk about accelerationism. sinema and manchin won't have a chance to do that poo poo when republicans throw out results in 2022 and 2024 and declare their candidates winners and take the senate, or just keep passing insane voter discrimination laws that prevent democratic voters from casting votes to begin with. this is what i mean when i say there is fundamentally no difference in the trajectory of the country between them. they are actively fighting against efforts to prevent that exact scenario from occurring and republicans have demonstrated very clearly that their intention is to do exactly that. if democrats do not take the opportunity they have right now and take serious action on voting rights, they will likely never control the senate again at any point in any of our lives, and sinema and manchin are making absolutely sure that is the case.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:08
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"Fancy Pelosi", the account registered less than 24 hours ago, is very clearly trolling and you should all be very disappointed in yourselves for wasting time in replying to them.DEEP STATE PLOT posted:however that's still optimistic as hell since the dnc will absolutely back her and throw shitloads of money at her to help her win her primary why Like seriously though, why would they help her? It's not even a question of centrism versus progressivism, it's a question of party loyalty. The party wants people who are going to vote for their agenda, whatever it is, and Sinema threatening to torpedo the Administration's signature agenda because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the opposite of a reliable vote. I can't imagine there's anyone in the administration or the DNC who wouldn't rather have another Mark Kelly instead of having to deal with Sinema's bullshit.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:10
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Acebuckeye13 posted:"Fancy Pelosi", the account registered less than 24 hours ago, is very clearly trolling and you should all be very disappointed in yourselves for wasting time in replying to them. Maybe, but it isn’t like that kind of talk isn’t prevalent in this thread. Here are just a few posts from when I recommend bad Dems be replaced by good Dems: nine-gear crow posted:The mythical "Let's let the lovely Dems be replaced by fascists now so we can get better Dems later" adage has thus far never managed to yield results on the "better Dems later" part. The "replaced by fascists" part on the other hand always goes gangbusters for some reason... Flopsy posted:Can we not do this Accelerationist poo poo please? Ravenfood posted:I'm very glad you are in a financial, emotional, and physical state to be safe during such an event! The “vote blue no matter who” rhetoric is incredibly toxic and it would be great if something was done about it.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:15
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I am a re-reg because people tend to get harassed for posting political opinions that 90% of normal people have. But I'm not trolling, and even bringing up Sinema's possible replacement has made people reveal their accelerationist streak, case in point:Pook Good Mook posted:Personally, if we aren't going to get anything of note done with global warming, then ya, I hope Sinema is replaced by a lunatic. I'll drop it, though, since people seem to think I'm trolling.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:20
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President Biden has a 'long and fruitful chat' with an Arizona rep that has a credible resume for a Senate run: "The DNC will clearly support Sinema to the hilt!" The argument that a better candidate than Manchin doesn't exist in West Virginia is well-proven at this point, because the other Democrat that seems like he can win is Jim Justice. The same argument for Arizona is pathetically weak. There are a dozen credible Democratic candidates, some of them who are centrist moderate succdems that won't piss off the White House and congressional leadership for seemingly no reason. And even if you do believe in the DNC has a conspiratorial group, not supporting a primary challenge to Sinems makes it more likely that a party outsider gets the nomination instead.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:22
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Acebuckeye13 posted:"Fancy Pelosi", the account registered less than 24 hours ago, is very clearly trolling and you should all be very disappointed in yourselves for wasting time in replying to them. There are ppl in this thread already urging ppl to vote for her in the next election. At the end Sinema will be responsible for eviscerated any real shot at stopping climate change, and that's gonna get her ALOT of happy and well heeled financial backers. The only effective thing the Dems are good at is squashing insurgent campaigns. They're absolutely going to go the mat to protect her seat and her specifically.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:24
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I am a re-reg because people tend to get harassed for posting political opinions that 90% of normal people have. But I'm not trolling, and even bringing up Sinema's possible replacement has made people reveal their accelerationist streak, case in point: Well. I don’t blame you for those reasons. I don’t blame people for not wanting to post here. It’s stupid place that has the same fights over the same ground over and over. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Oct 2, 2021 |
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Oct 2, 2021 16:25
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Fancy Pelosi posted:I am a re-reg because people tend to get harassed for posting political opinions that 90% of normal people have. But I'm not trolling, and even bringing up Sinema's possible replacement has made people reveal their accelerationist streak, case in point: If you are being sincere, then thank you for dropping it. It isn’t helpful to condemn people for wanting better representatives in the government and pointing out how incredibly flawed and destructive the moderates of the Democratic Party have been. “Vote blue no matter who” talk reminds me a lot of “if you don’t like it then GET OUT” talk that comes from conservatives. It stifles conversations on how to improve the party/country.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:29
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Sinema's approval rating in AZ is in the 20s so yes, she is a terrible politician by the most basic metric. Spiking a lifelong career as a US senator in less than a year is not the action of an intelligent or capable person. Whatever golden parachute she's been promised is far lesser than the influence and money she could have amassed over decades of gladhanding by simply keeping her head down. Source for the bolded?
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Oct 2, 2021 16:32
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Im sure that if massive cuts do end up happening then the climate stuff will be first on the block to go.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:36
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Tibalt posted:President Biden has a 'long and fruitful chat' with an Arizona rep that has a credible resume for a Senate run: "The DNC will clearly support Sinema to the hilt!" Yeah, the same argument doesn't hold in AZ because the other Senator who was just elected supports it. We're not asking for Bernie, we're asking her to match Mark Kelly
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Oct 2, 2021 16:43
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