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Imagined posted:It's Hobbit Day. Type >FRODO LIVES into your DOS prompt to not have your computer hang
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Sep 22, 2021 22:35
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I'm reading ROTK and it's extremely rude how they brand Snowmane "Theoden's Bane" on his grave. Give him a break, a Nazgul sat on him. Done dirty, smh.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:50
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Thats a pretty good gravestone brag tbh. How many other horses have “killed a king” on their grave
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Sep 28, 2021 01:06
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skasion posted:Thats a pretty good gravestone brag tbh. How many other horses have “killed a king” on their grave Probably this guy.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:47
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:I'm reading ROTK and it's extremely rude how they brand Snowmane "Theoden's Bane" on his grave. Give him a break, a Nazgul sat on him. Done dirty, smh. This is fake news.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:54
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So question regarding the One Ring and the rest of the Rings of Power. The Elves took off the three rings immediately when they felt Sauron. Did thr Dwarves suffer any from his influence or were they too stone-minded to be affected by the will of the One? Or did the One Ring only have true dominance over the nine rings of Men and the lesser rings of power?
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Sep 30, 2021 14:03
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Do you want an answer from just the LOTR perspective or using the whole Chris Tolkien universe ?
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Sep 30, 2021 14:07
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Exclude the lengthy dissertations on the Ring's effects on Fëa and Hroä if you can.
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Sep 30, 2021 14:10
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From the appendices Of this Ring something may be said here. It was believed by the Dwarves of Durin’s Folk to be the first of the Seven that was forged; and they say that it was given to the King of Khazad-dûm, Durin III, by the Elven-smiths themselves and not by Sauron, though doubtless his evil power was on it, since he had aided in the forging of all the Seven. But the possessors of the Ring did not display it or speak of it, and they seldom surrendered it until near death, so that others did not know for certain where it was bestowed. Some thought that it had remained in Khazad-dûm, in the secret tombs of the kings, if they had not been discovered and plundered; but among the kindred of Durin’s Heir it was believed (wrongly) that Thrór had worn it when he rashly returned there. What then had become of it they did not know. It was not found on the body of Azog.3 None the less it may well be, as the Dwarves now believe, that Sauron by his arts had discovered who had this Ring, the last to remain free, and that the singular misfortunes of the heirs of Durin were largely due to his malice. For the Dwarves had proved untameable by this means. The only power over them that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things, so that if they lacked them all other good things seemed profitless, and they were filled with wrath and desire for vengeance on all who deprived them. But they were made from their beginning of a kind to resist most steadfastly any domination. Though they could be slain or broken, they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring, to live either longer or shorter because of it. All the more did Sauron hate the possessors and desire to dispossess them.
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Sep 30, 2021 14:14
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Also the elves put those rings right Back on when Sauron “dies” and Isildur takes the ring
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Sep 30, 2021 14:20
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Well Elves aren't exactly known for finishing what they started, so naturally they'd feel defeating Sauron was a "close enough" win that they could wear their rings again and hope that they migrated west before things got too bad again. As for Dwarves, so it seems the Ring amplified their greed but the Dwarves were too stubborn and hostile to be corrupted so it just made them into grudge bearing assholes rather than thralls.
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Sep 30, 2021 15:44
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Gandalf wore his too
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Sep 30, 2021 23:40
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Pipe weed clouds your judgment okay? Besides that was just Cirdan chucking off responsibility so he could build more boats.
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Sep 30, 2021 23:52
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Arc Hammer posted:Pipe weed clouds your judgment okay? Besides that was just Cirdan chucking off responsibility so he could build more boats. Boats guard boats.
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Oct 1, 2021 15:42
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Arc Hammer posted:So question regarding the One Ring and the rest of the Rings of Power. The Elves took off the three rings immediately when they felt Sauron. Did thr Dwarves suffer any from his influence or were they too stone-minded to be affected by the will of the One? Or did the One Ring only have true dominance over the nine rings of Men and the lesser rings of power? It's worth noting that before Sauron seized the greater rings, they were the Sixteen Rings. Their division into the Nine and the Seven was an arbitrary one made by Sauron when he went gift-giving to the Men and the Dwarves, presumably because the Dwarves have seven houses.
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Oct 1, 2021 16:01
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The Dwarves having those rings probably drew Smaug and the other Dragons onto them as well because they'd use those rings to amass huge fortunes and then the Dragons would come to take them.
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Oct 1, 2021 18:18
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How exactly do the rings help you “amass great treasure”? Can they actually create gold? Do they make you “lucky” in your mining endeavors? Are they fancy dousing rods? The appendices just give a vague “each was used to found a great treasure hoard”.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:09
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Mine gold, mint coins, tax the poo poo out of it.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:12
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galagazombie posted:How exactly do the rings help you “amass great treasure”? Can they actually create gold? Do they make you “lucky” in your mining endeavors? Are they fancy dousing rods? The appendices just give a vague “each was used to found a great treasure hoard”. Tolkien’s absolutely thinking of the Eddaic Andvaranaut here, since this is its whole gimmick: the magic gold ring of a dwarf, which he would rather give up his whole hoard than lose, since with it he can get more gold magically. While the Edda does not explain how this works exactly, it also tells of another magic gold ring Draupnir, which drops eight identical rings every nine nights. This comes up right before the story of the otter’s ransom in which we hear about Andvaranaut, so probably we should assume it works the same way. Kind of weird to imagine one of Tolkien’s rings of power cloning itself though.
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Oct 1, 2021 22:25
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I think in addition to making it easier to accumulate wealth in some manner, it also clearly makes you want to accumulate more wealth. I can imagine Tolkien thinking of something like dwarves loving the creation of fine gems and craft for the love of the craft and art's sake being perverted into the creation and hoarding of wealth for health's sake as a major part of the, well, hoards.
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Oct 1, 2021 23:31
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Is there any source material on the inspiration for Tolkien's elves? Like usually elves were more like sprites or brownies being nature spirits that liked kidnapping and murder and I guess a lot of the time they were ugly little goblins. IDK where the idea of elves being tall and fair with noble brows etc came from so I guess it's original to him?
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Oct 2, 2021 02:39
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HIJK posted:Is there any source material on the inspiration for Tolkien's elves? Like usually elves were more like sprites or brownies being nature spirits that liked kidnapping and murder and I guess a lot of the time they were ugly little goblins. IDK where the idea of elves being tall and fair with noble brows etc came from so I guess it's original to him? Tolkien's elves, despite being called elves, are much more like how fairies and the fae are described in medieval fairy stories. Tolkien was an expert on fairy stories.
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Oct 2, 2021 02:47
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Imagined posted:Tolkien's elves, despite being called elves, are much more like how fairies and the fae are described in medieval fairy stories. Tolkien was an expert on fairy stories. It's hard to imagine a fairie killing a Balrog and crossing the frozen ice. My British acquaintences gave me the impression that fairies are hurt by silver and iron and that they're selfish little bastards. Tolkien's elves are also selfish little bastards but they also have a noble streak in them in addition to being ethereal and the first born children of God.
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Oct 2, 2021 03:00
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Tolkien’s elves are interesting mix. He comes at them from a couple angles. In Book of Lost Tales especially you have moments of extremely Victorian fairies poo poo like the cottage and everything to do with Tinuviel, mixed with these stories of heroic violence elves that have more to do with antique epics or sometimes saga heroes. Moreover, Tolkien himself was aware of this trend because the whole point of the Lost Tales is to explain why the elves of today are wimpy little Midsummer Nights Dream fairies, because they faded away into nothingness when the heroic age ended. They become a harmless “little folk” in a way. BOLT’s fairy elves are in a thematic sense the precursors of the hobbits. There’s lots of stuff in Tolkien’s elves that seems to be in direct response to historical elf traditions. Prose Edda has Christian influenced light-elves that are “fairer than the sun” who live in the heavenly paradise and shady dark-elves in the earth. Or for example the concept of the Noldor reflect this Norse mythic image of the elves as smiths and makers of cool poo poo. Beowulf compares elves to biblical patriarchs, they are descendants of the race of Cain. Anglo-Saxon names suggest elf warriors, elf kings. Actual, real people were at one time called “Elf-spear” “Elf-tall” “Elf-ward”. The most direct ancestor of Tolkien’s elves is absolutely Dunsany’s elves though. Read King of Elfland’s Daughter. Quick read and good
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Oct 2, 2021 04:37
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skasion posted:Actual, real people were at one time called “Elf-spear” “Elf-tall” “Elf-ward”. Some of them still are. Alfred is probably the most obvious to the average person, but Alvin, Elvis, Avery, and Aubrey all derive from similar roots as well.
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Oct 2, 2021 09:39
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Also my son’s name : Gandalf
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Oct 2, 2021 13:00
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galagazombie posted:How exactly do the rings help you “amass great treasure”? Can they actually create gold? Do they make you “lucky” in your mining endeavors? Are they fancy dousing rods? The appendices just give a vague “each was used to found a great treasure hoard”. they were an allegory for bitcoin rigs
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Oct 2, 2021 13:04
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euphronius posted:Also my son’s name : Gandalf I've known both a Gandalf and a Frodo IRL.
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Oct 2, 2021 13:20
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There was a Galadriel in the elementary school class ahead of me.
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Oct 2, 2021 14:33
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All.of the above is accurate but I'd also point to The Worm Ouroboros as a direct precursor to Tolkien's elves.
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Oct 2, 2021 15:38
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Data Graham posted:There was a Galadriel in the elementary school class ahead of me. Somehow that seems fine to me. It's just a pretty name. "Frodo" not so much
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Oct 2, 2021 15:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Somehow that seems fine to me. It's just a pretty name. "Frodo" not so much I had no idea it was an unusual name until years later when I read LotR and thought "wow, he just stuck a lady with a normal rear end name in he—waaaait a second"
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Oct 2, 2021 15:43
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Definitely have met a Galadriel, she was the right age for “my parents read LOTR in the 60s”.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:04
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skasion posted:Prose Edda has Christian influenced light-elves that are “fairer than the sun” who live in the heavenly paradise and shady dark-elves in the earth. Or for example the concept of the Noldor reflect this Norse mythic image of the elves as smiths and makers of cool poo poo. Beowulf compares elves to biblical patriarchs, they are descendants of the race of Cain. Anglo-Saxon names suggest elf warriors, elf kings. Actual, real people were at one time called “Elf-spear” “Elf-tall” “Elf-ward”. The Tuatha de Danann are another version of the knowledgeable guys with cool magic poo poo who don't mind getting into fights. In some versions they even burned their ships when they landed in Ireland...
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Oct 2, 2021 16:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:All.of the above is accurate but I'd also point to The Worm Ouroboros as a direct precursor to Tolkien's elves. Kind of. Eddison, despite also being very well-read in the same kind of medieval north Germanic stuff that filled Tolkien’s head with elves, almost never uses the term. (It is a stock epithet of Goldry’s sword that it was “forged by the elves”, but we never actually see or hear anything of these elves). It isn’t hard to draw a connection between the proud, willful, violent princes of Demonland and Witchland and the proud, willful, violent princes of the Noldor: but imo the important commonality there is the princeliness, not the elvishness per se. Both the elves of Tolkien and the demons/witches/Zimiamvians of Eddison are in part ways of looking at centuries-old ideas about military nobility, but they incorporate very different influences and go in very different directions, as you would expect since Tolkien hardly had the same read on things as Eddison.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:26
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I mean considering the Liverpool police recently destroyed the miraculous white stag that arrived to save us, the fae are probably grumpier than usual in Britain at the moment.
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Oct 2, 2021 16:47
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HopperUK posted:I mean considering the Liverpool police recently destroyed the miraculous white stag that arrived to save us, the fae are probably grumpier than usual in Britain at the moment. Has anybody checked on Bran the Blessed's head lately?
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Oct 2, 2021 16:52
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 An Elf
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Oct 2, 2021 17:08
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HopperUK posted:I mean considering the Liverpool police recently destroyed the miraculous white stag that arrived to save us, the fae are probably grumpier than usual in Britain at the moment. Yeah that was, just, goddammit, how on point an omen can you loving get
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Oct 2, 2021 18:55
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Runcible Cat posted:The Tuatha de Danann are another version of the knowledgeable guys with cool magic poo poo who don't mind getting into fights. In some versions they even burned their ships when they landed in Ireland... I think Tolkien was aware enough of the celtic twilight that he didn't like to invite comparisons.
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Oct 2, 2021 19:23
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