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I love the conspiracy theories in the goofiest anti-wolf circles in Finland, where green researchers from Natural Resources Institute Finland go around in their vans in the rural areas, planting wolves from elsewhere. Because, you know, their vans are often seen around and clearly there is no other explaination.
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Oct 1, 2021 15:18
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Nenonen posted:Partly yes, but more so because wolves also kill hunting dogs as wolves see them as competition (which isn't incorrect in that they help humans hunt elks etc.). Good hunting dogs are expensive to buy, raise and train and there's an emotional connection between them. And it just turns so that many forms of hunting become very difficult or impractical if you can't have dogs running after the prey and barking at it or fetching the dead animal. That's why I mentioned the hogs before since they can really gently caress up hunting dogs and they're magnitudes more prevalent than wolves, but hunter friendly fire is another big one for sure. EDIT: HANIF BALI ISN'T CANDIDATING FOR ANOTHER TERM. HE'S OUT. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 15:22
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MiddleOne posted:EDIT: HANIF BALI ISN'T CANDIDATING FOR ANOTHER TERM. HE'S OUT. 
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Oct 1, 2021 15:49
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https://twitter.com/beatt_william/status/1443948928450322437?s=20
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Oct 1, 2021 15:54
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Lunsku posted:I love the conspiracy theories in the goofiest anti-wolf circles in Finland, where green researchers from Natural Resources Institute Finland go around in their vans in the rural areas, planting wolves from elsewhere. Because, you know, their vans are often seen around and clearly there is no other explaination. You got that too? A while back there was a conspiracy theory that wolves had been smuggled from a zoo in Paris and released in Norway: https://www.varden.no/nyheter/har-utfort-ny-dna-test-ulv-i-norge-stammer-ikke-fra-en-dyrepark-i-paris/
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Oct 1, 2021 16:43
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Am I reading that wrong or is he saying that he has already been cleared of all charges? Has he?
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Oct 1, 2021 17:12
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No the prosecutor has dropped the charges of sexual positioning of a minor (read: under 18) after looking at the pictures (proving that there were pictures). In Sweden grooming is kinda iffy above the age of 15 which means it ends there. Also legal doesn't mean ethical, that's why he's bowing out. It is now an undisputable fact that he tried (and failed) to groom a minor. His own testimony aligns perfectly with his accuser which makes this open and shut publicly.
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Oct 1, 2021 17:24
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I’ll believe Bali would bow out of his cushy taxpayer paid troll-assignment in Riksdagen he’s guaranteed to by the Twitter alt-right drecks who would follow him off a cliff to own pkfeminister when I see it. It’s also hilarious the lengths people are going to decry this whole debacle. I like to imagine Julholt sitting somewhere, reading all these screeds about how important it is to not let the media pass judgment on people before the law, and nods manically. BigglesSWE fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 17:30
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Feliday Melody posted:The last time a wild wolf Cardiac posted:Except the time a caretaker was killed by wolves at Kolmården in 2012. 
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Oct 1, 2021 17:55
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Nice piece of fish posted:It's exactly that. again, it's not about the actual wolf population, for the pro-wolf group it's about the principle of whether we're allowed to actually just exterminate inconvenient species whereas for the anti-wolf group it's about the principle of being allowed to run your local areas as you see fit without big gubmint breathing down your neck for no obvious reason
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Oct 1, 2021 20:38
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I don't really understand the feeling of majesty city dwellers supposedly get from knowing there's wolves out there in the great outdoors, but the people talking about their hunting dogs getting killed like it's a sure thing when there's like 50 wolves tops in all of Norway at any one time sound loving insane. The people involved swear it's a real issue, and not some sort of proxy culture war. Put them in a room and let them fight it out.
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Oct 2, 2021 01:04
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thotsky posted:I don't really understand the feeling of majesty city dwellers supposedly get from knowing there's wolves out there in the great outdoors, but the people talking about their hunting dogs getting killed like it's a sure thing when there's like 50 wolves tops in all of Norway at any one time sound loving insane. It's our version of the US's gridlock over abortion rights or gun rights. It has very little do to with the actual topic and you'd go crazy if you tried to actually answer the arguments using facts, statistics or reasoning. E: I think it's more about people in the countryside feeling hurt about not being listened to (which is a fair complaint) but also feeling like their human concerns are deemed less important than city dweller's concerns for animals and how hypocritical that is. While the city dwellers are frustrated about what they consider irrational opinions, which goes through so much other poo poo like xenophobia, anti-environmentalism etc, and just wanting them to stop dragging society's feet behind us. Both are wildly exaggerated views with a kernel of truth, and somewhere they have to boil down into a dumb fight over a token issue. So, yeah. Wolves it is. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Oct 2, 2021 |
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Oct 2, 2021 12:04
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There is also an obvious conflict of interest regarding the wolves and the reindeer herding rights of the Sami. If you would just look at a distribuition map of wolves in Sweden it looks odd. They all basically exist in middle Sweden, even though they are the descendants of migrated finnish and russian wolves. But there are basically no wolf pairs in Nothern Sweden, which covers more than half the country and stands between the Swedish and fennorussian wolves. Samis are typically granted skyddsjakt permissions as they threaten their reindeer herding. If they havent also been illegally shot any point wolves have crossed over. Right or wrong, it is a rather odd situation for the wolf populations. All of Swedens wolves are in middle sweden, closest relatives otherwise exist in norway, finland and russia. But the vast expanse of boreal forest and mountains in the large stretch of the country between finland and swedish wolf-territories are essentially wolf-free. Tricky situation with how things stand with the Sami especially with Swedens historical wrongdoings in mind. But i can imagine it can be a hard pill to swallow for e.g a rural Värmlänning having to tolerate wolves while insuring that vast tracts of suitable habitat are kept wolf-free. And yeah, this issue takes culture war dimensions, while personally im more concerned with the state of Swedens forests when it comes to national nature conservation, which is another huge can of worms regarding economical stakeholders. Falukorv fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 2, 2021 |
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Oct 2, 2021 21:56
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Speaking of Swedish forests…. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/unga-skogar-avverkas-olagligt
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Oct 3, 2021 07:18
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Falukorv posted:And yeah, this issue takes culture war dimensions, while personally im more concerned with the state of Swedens forests when it comes to national nature conservation, which is another huge can of worms regarding economical stakeholders. A hunter on a swedish forum said something to the tune of, "Sverige har inte skogar, dom har åkrar för träd"
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Oct 3, 2021 07:22
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His Divine Shadow posted:A hunter on a swedish forum said something to the tune of, "Sverige har inte skogar, dom har åkrar för träd" Is that why all the trees are nearly always the same height in Swedish forests?
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Oct 3, 2021 07:33
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Feliday Melody posted:Is that why all the trees are nearly always the same height in Swedish forests? They where probably all planted at the same time, then they tended the plants so they'd all grow as straight and fast as possible for the next logging. It's an investment so gotta maximize production. There is talk nowadays about reforming this system to take biodiversity into account more. Less clearing of underbrush, less ditch digging, no clear cutting swathes of forest to allow for older and younger trees together etc. edit: Other factors are also IMO, the centralization of ownership. In the past patches of forest where owned by more people, but now a lot of forest is owned by a few people. And as always with the centralization of resources into fewer hands, we get more corporate thinking and rationales. Another is that owners get less money per volume nowadays than say in the 80s (the real money is made by the middle hands, as always) which incentivies furter centralization of ownership and more corporate thinking. This is not the sole problem with swedish forest management, it just makes it worse than it'd be if loads of people owned smaller patches of forest. IMO. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 07:40
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Feliday Melody posted:Is that why all the trees are nearly always the same height in Swedish forests? Yes. His Divine Shadow posted:A hunter on a swedish forum said something to the tune of, "Sverige har inte skogar, dom har åkrar för träd" This is very true. The biodiversity goes down the drain as the productivity goes up. Mushrooms and berries grow well in these farms though, so most people don't really notice or care.
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Oct 3, 2021 08:13
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Here's a post by the same hunter I think, the last part describes the amount of land he has to use nowadays to get the same amount of hunting done.quote:Jag vet inte hur det ser ut i andra delar av landet, men i norrbotten är 99% av all mark som är naturreservat på bolagsmark sådan mark som helt saknar träd, myrar, våtmarker och stenhorst(ni som vet vad det är förstår värdet för skogsbolagen). Vi hade faktiskt en myrholme på en av mina jaktmarker (den enda plätt på 3500Ha som hade tallar äldre än 70 år) som var skyddad enligt natura 2000 det rör sig om ca 15Ha. Bolaget jobbade i flera år på att få bort skyddet och i höstas noterade jag att det inte längre var skyddat och att snitslarna vajade i vinden. Gissar att det försvinner under våren.... tl;dr went from needing 3700 hectares 40 years ago, now he needs 65,000 hectares to find the same amount of prey, and suspects in 10 years he'll need a whopping 100,000 hectares. A pretty striking example of the reduced ability of forests to sustain animal life.
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Oct 3, 2021 08:20
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MiddleOne posted:It is now an undisputable fact that he tried (and failed) to groom a minor. His own testimony aligns perfectly with his accuser which makes this open and shut publicly. That is not true. At All. There were pictures involved. Those pictures were not of an "illegal nature" or whatever you want to call it. The girl _claims_ she sent them after Bali asked. The prosecutor did not have any evidence except the girls own words for that. Bali claims they were unsolicited. Bali was not even questioned by the prosecutor. If there was even a _shred_ of ambiguity, don't you think the prosecutor would have at least asked Bali? So... yeah. But sure, "where there is smoke, there is fire...", that's the way justice works, right?
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Oct 3, 2021 08:49
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Seems also that "hyggesfritt" continous forestry is being discussed and implemented more in Finland but more opposed in Swedish forestry. And not as hot of a topic among the public as it should be imo. And the largest forest owner in Sweden is state-owned Sveaskog, and they should be able to set a far better standard than they do. Falukorv fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 17:03
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Scuttle_SE posted:That is not true. At All. Ok, groomer (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 3, 2021 17:58
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zokie posted:Ok, groomer Just go gently caress yourself.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:09
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Scuttle_SE posted:Just go gently caress yourself. Ok groomer (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 3, 2021 18:16
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Scuttle_SE posted:That is not true. At All. Eat poo poo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 3, 2021 18:18
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zokie posted:Ok, groomer
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Oct 3, 2021 18:20
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Scuttle_SE posted:That is not true. At All. sir 
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Oct 3, 2021 18:26
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I don't even know what that's supposed to mean...
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Oct 3, 2021 18:30
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Scuttle_SE posted:I don't even know what that's supposed to mean... That's fair, as references go that one is the type that you would have to be extremely online to get. But you don't have to be extremely online to know that your first post in a thread that's been active for several years probably shouldn't be a snarky attempt to defend a reviled public figure against credible accusations of grooming. I don't mean to get all regdate-snobbish here, but I'm surprised someone who's been on these forums for over 25 years doesn't know how to lurk before posting.
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Oct 3, 2021 19:05
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jeebus bob posted:That's fair, as references go that one is the type that you would have to be extremely online to get. But you don't have to be extremely online to know that your first post in a thread that's been active for several years probably shouldn't be a snarky attempt to defend a reviled public figure against credible accusations of grooming. That's fair, I didn't know that the thread was a place for just out and out vitriol and hatred. I made the mistake of thinking people would actually be rational.
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Oct 3, 2021 19:08
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jeebus bob posted:That's fair, as references go that one is the type that you would have to be extremely online to get. But you don't have to be extremely online to know that your first post in a thread that's been active for several years probably shouldn't be a snarky attempt to defend a reviled public figure against credible accusations of grooming.
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Oct 3, 2021 19:09
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Finally the time cops have infiltrated the thread.
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Oct 3, 2021 19:12
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zokie posted:Ok, groomer MiddleOne posted:Ok groomer This sucks real bad
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Oct 3, 2021 19:32
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Beeswax posted:This sucks real bad Thought you'd cornered the market, huh? 
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Oct 3, 2021 19:42
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Like any market, it should be regulated so only goverment-approved lovely takes are posted
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Oct 3, 2021 19:46
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I guess it’s lovely to find a weird out of the blue defense of a creep, uh, bizarre?
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Oct 3, 2021 19:51
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personally i try to avoid committing myself to whether people have done specific criminal acts until there's been a court process of it. i have found it a helpful habit. in some cases, like the søviknes case, i can accept that the evidence wasn't there to really convict him but what we know happened counts as rape by my book (and probably would've been at least prosecuted as such today). older, male politicians grooming people from youth parties has been distressingly common for many years, and bali should at the very least have known how this would look.
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Oct 3, 2021 20:21
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I'm not even bothering with the legal aspects of it. Bali is a shithead and should have been shunned by his party ages ago just based on his terrible views and comments (edit: and I'm not at all surprised he's accused of being a groomer, it seems in line with his general awful personality). I just wish people would post less like they're straight outta CSPAM with severe internet poisoning
Beeswax fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 20:38
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It was a very long bad faith reply by someone who has never before posted in the thread (and this is a very old thread). I honestly don't feel it deserved any better. EDIT: Specifically, he ignored the part of my post where I clarified we've moved beyond the question of legality by harping about legality in his reply. The ethics of this is very clear, the parts that have been admitted to are bad enough and they eerily match with the story told by the accuser. If someone doesn't care about the ethics of grooming then w/e, there's no point having that argument. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 20:52
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Scuttle_SE posted:That's fair, I didn't know that the thread was a place for just out and out vitriol and hatred. I made the mistake of thinking people would actually be rational. lol, you suck Beeswax posted:I'm not even bothering with the legal aspects of it. Bali is a shithead and should have been shunned by his party ages ago just based on his terrible views and comments (edit: and I'm not at all surprised he's accused of being a groomer, it seems in line with his general awful personality). I just wish people would post less like they're straight outta CSPAM with severe internet poisoning Yeah, we definitely need more people that post like they're from a subreddit that dare tackle the difficult topics.
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Oct 3, 2021 20:56
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