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Vinz Clortho posted:I'm a SWE-SRE, so the formal process should be smooth, in theory. I'm more concerned with skills and expectations. I've been working almost exclusively on monitoring and defining and implementing SLOs since I started, so not much substantive programming. I haven't really touched C++ since my internship ended in early 2020. With promo I'd only be coming in as an L4, but still… I worked in corpeng where most of my technical contributions were not much more complicated than simple CRUD apps with batch jobs attached, and now I'm talking to hiring managers in a bunch of different product areas with huge numbers of users who don't mind. The few times I asked a team their stack and they answered C++, they just told me my lack of C++ knowledge was fine because they assume that any Google SWE should be able to quickly pick up the necessary language skills for any generalist SWE position. Don't forget a lot of your competition comes from outside Google. You're someone familiar with Google tools in general, production tools in particular, and a known perf history. You're being compared to someone who knows how to leetcode but not how to get things done at Google. It's at least a slight mark in your favor. EDIT: and there are plenty of SWE teams without dedicated SRE teams where knowing enough about monitoring to come up with a monitoring plan would be useful, even if you're not the one implementing the monitoring. On my old team for example, we set up monitoring and dashboards and then never really used them because we ended up not needing to measure what we chose to measure. So work was wasted and it would have been nice to have someone more familiar around who could have told us what we should have measured instead. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Oct 2, 2021 |
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Oct 2, 2021 00:16
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apseudonym posted:This is a manager who doesn't want to actually hire people. Also, I guess this means they had an internal candidate in mind already?
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Oct 2, 2021 01:11
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oliveoil posted:Also, I guess this means they had an internal candidate in mind already? Or someone else in the pipe they already really want or just having a poo poo day. Either way, bullet probably dodged.
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Oct 2, 2021 03:52
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Vinz Clortho posted:Anybody done a role transfer from SRE to dev at Google? Or familiar with someone who's done it? I've been working in SRE for a bit over a year, but contemplating a switch if/when I manage to get promo. I know a few people who have made the transition, but I don't know the details. I believe they at least had coding projects and CLs done as SREs that they could point to as artifacts regardless of whether it was python or go or whatever. If your duties have been more about production concerns like managing capacity, quota, alerting, etc. then you might want to pick up a side project where you can do a little coding against internal APIs for pubsub, spanner, etc. and demonstrate that you can be effective using the libraries that most SWEs will be interacting with.
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Oct 2, 2021 04:47
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oliveoil posted:Has anyone done or studied any project management stuff btw? How do you plan to run a marketing agency, manage the creation of a game, and also perform your full time job duties? All while asking the internet how to organize and run projects. Why do all of your posts sound like you're chasing angles or looking for shortcuts? Yes, properly managing projects will make them go smoother, and facilitating clear channels of communication will lead to better set expectations and generally more desirable outcomes. The project management institute has some freely available material https://www.pmi.org
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Oct 2, 2021 07:30
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if you intone the word "game" then you should know that you should just throw away any realistic hopes you have of making money
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Oct 2, 2021 08:08
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Man, we had to hire a The market is unbelievably tight right now
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Oct 2, 2021 09:56
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leper khan posted:How do you plan to run a marketing agency, manage the creation of a game, and also perform your full time job duties? All while asking the internet how to organize and run projects. By hiring people to do much of it. Return to office isn't mandatory till January so that gives me three months to get started. quote:Why do all of your posts sound like you're chasing angles or looking for shortcuts? Because that's what I have to do. You don't go from -1000 in your bank account to a rapid luxury retirement without a shortcut. Even though I made millions the first time through trading options, the majority of self-made millionaires do it through business. It's the only reliable shortcut. That link looks helpful BTW, thank you! bob dobbs is dead posted:if you intone the word "game" then you should know that you should just throw away any realistic hopes you have of making money I know but I found a couple ways to promote a game that most wouldn't have thought of. Hadlock posted:Man, we had to hire a I wonder how long this will last. Seemed like google was always the main driver of salaries but their moves indicate a supply/demand shift in companies' favor as they have: 1. Cancelled first-year stock refreshers for new hires 2. Stopped sharing future stock upside via front-loaded grants 3. Tried to encourage managers to accept remote indian employees instead of remote American employees On the other side, there are more leetcoders than ever.
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Oct 2, 2021 17:48
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oliveoil posted:I know but I found a couple ways to promote a game that most wouldn't have thought of. I think you’re my favorite poster in this thread. Please never stop. 
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Oct 2, 2021 17:54
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Just an absolutely masterful troll, I cannot believe so many people still thing this is real.
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Oct 2, 2021 17:56
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oliveoil posted:Because that's what I have to do. You don't go from -1000 in your bank account to a rapid luxury retirement without a shortcut. The key to having a lot of money in retirement is not losing your money either through bad luck or doing stupid poo poo. You should plan on working for a long time.
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Oct 2, 2021 18:16
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Just an absolutely masterful troll, I cannot believe so many people still thing this is real. just post dont need to be postin on good faith on our side either
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Oct 2, 2021 19:59
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oliveoil posted:I wonder how long this will last. Seemed like google was always the main driver of salaries but their moves indicate a supply/demand shift in companies' favor as they have: this hasn’t been true for years now.
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Oct 3, 2021 01:42
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bob dobbs is dead posted:just post People find value in this thread because it is a place to get honest advice without alot of noise or snark.
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Oct 3, 2021 02:51
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FamDav posted:this hasn’t been true for years now. Was it ever true? My sense is that Facebook has been the main driver of Bay Area SWE salary increases, going back to when they refused to go along with the "no poaching" agreements that led to the tech wage-fixing lawsuit. I know several people who've hopped from Google to Facebook for the comp increase, but no comparable stories going the other direction.
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Oct 3, 2021 03:07
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Paolomania posted:People find value in this thread because it is a place to get honest advice without alot of noise or snark. 
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Oct 3, 2021 03:22
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I have my annual review coming up soon and want to check how my salary compares in my city. Some short Googling lead to a number of sites, like Glassdoor, et al. I found that PayScale and BuiltIn asked me to provide much more context about my job, and I'd hope that would lead to more relevant salary data for me. Are there any other resources I should look at?
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Oct 3, 2021 04:04
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venutolo posted:I have my annual review coming up soon and want to check how my salary compares in my city. Some short Googling lead to a number of sites, like Glassdoor, et al. I found that PayScale and BuiltIn asked me to provide much more context about my job, and I'd hope that would lead to more relevant salary data for me. Are there any other resources I should look at? levels.fyi is the best I know of.
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Oct 3, 2021 04:07
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venutolo posted:I have my annual review coming up soon and want to check how my salary compares in my city. Some short Googling lead to a number of sites, like Glassdoor, et al. I found that PayScale and BuiltIn asked me to provide much more context about my job, and I'd hope that would lead to more relevant salary data for me. Are there any other resources I should look at? The market has moved a ton lately, so there isn't a lot of solid data out there right now. We're hiring anywhere in the US for 25% above what we paid in Boston at the start of the year.
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Oct 3, 2021 05:44
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wins32767 posted:The market has moved a ton lately, so there isn't a lot of solid data out there right now. We're hiring anywhere in the US for 25% above what we paid in Boston at the start of the year. Out here (non-faang) Senior used to pay $160-200 in 2016, now it's more like $190-235 in 2021. I am still seeing recruiters trolling for desperate people looking for senior roles @ 150k and I'm just like, maaaan, where are you getting your numbers from. And yeah, I did a horizontal move to another company pretty recently and picked up a 25% pay raise right off the top. venutolo posted:I have my annual review coming up soon and want to check how my salary compares in my city. Some short Googling lead to a number of sites, like Glassdoor, et al. I found that PayScale and BuiltIn asked me to provide much more context about my job, and I'd hope that would lead to more relevant salary data for me. Are there any other resources I should look at? I mean, figure out (honestly) where you sit in the pecking order in your payband. Are you better than half of your coworkers? You're probably in the middle of the payband. Or top two thirds if you're a good sales person. Levels.fyi is pretty dang accurate in 2021, for the bay area; glassdoor data is years old and is gamed so hard by employers at this point it's not to be trusted.
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Oct 3, 2021 09:36
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greatZebu posted:Was it ever true? My sense is that Facebook has been the main driver of Bay Area SWE salary increases, going back to when they refused to go along with the "no poaching" agreements that led to the tech wage-fixing lawsuit. I know several people who've hopped from Google to Facebook for the comp increase, but no comparable stories going the other direction. facebook has been a driver, but so have smaller private/public companies in the bay especially wrt salary. google is also pretty notorious for low balling unless you have competing offers, whereas other places seem to be much more aggressive out the gate (especially these days). it’s all very obnoxious. FamDav fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 11:55
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Google historically paid better than they intended because they leaned so hard on stock-based comp and their stock went up so consistently. Their reputation for paying very well seems to have come from what people actually got rather than the up-front offer.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:25
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Anyone seen a good talk on a system where user privacy was a major design consideration? Was just watching a video on the design of Netflix's Zuul system for push notifications and was thinking it would be nice to see an example of a real system where privacy came into focus. In my experience, handling PII meant not storing it if you could avoid it, automatically deleting it after some time if not needed forever, and then also encrypting it at rest and requiring a business justification (typically with a second person to review + approve) for all access. And we also set up a system to permanently record those accesses so they could be reviewed or audited later. Wondering if I'm missing any important privacy practices. Maybe SPII deserves a stricter approach than PII? oliveoil fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 23:00
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oliveoil posted:In my experience, handling PII meant not storing it if you could avoid it, automatically deleting it after some time if not needed forever, and then also encrypting it at rest and requiring a business justification (typically with a second person to review + approve) for all access. And we also set up a system to permanently record those accesses so they could be reviewed or audited later. That's generally the jist. I'd recommend digesting the PCI DSS (credit card data) requirements. They have a whole internal audit document, and many of the requirements apply to any kind of PII (as well as being general industry best-practices for security.) Just replace 'cardholder data' with the PII you're collecting.
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Oct 4, 2021 00:34
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Never write or store PII unless you have it in writing from your VP or CTO the lifecycle of that data, and the budget to manage and audit that data. And yeah, encrypt at rest, which is mostly the default at AWS and others now, which is nice. Also, do a full audit of your S3 buckets at least once a year, usually some person in product or marketing with way more privileges than they ought to have, ends up making something world read/writable, almost inevitably. AWS has a bunch of "danger! you're about to do something that at any larger company, would get you fired" and "are you sure? type the s3 bucket name to make world read/writable", and finally "press ok to confirm you make poor life decisions both at home and at work" but they just keep clicking until customer data is published for the world to see Hadlock fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Oct 4, 2021 |
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Oct 4, 2021 05:06
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Hadlock posted:Out here (non-faang) Senior used to pay $160-200 in 2016, now it's more like $190-235 in 2021. I am still seeing recruiters trolling for desperate people looking for senior roles @ 150k and I'm just like, maaaan, where are you getting your numbers from. And yeah, I did a horizontal move to another company pretty recently and picked up a 25% pay raise right off the top. computer programming pay is bimodal. 150k is probably great for one half of the distribution
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Oct 4, 2021 05:25
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redleader posted:computer programming pay is bimodal. 150k is probably great for one half of the distribution What makes you think the hiring process can detect the distribution you're in? It's all based on CS trivia these days, and I know a lot of people that passed algorithms that couldn't really work through a significant (or any) project. I've even seen a few people who try to pattern match to memorized solutions because usually there's only like 6 fundamental problems that are asked. (For whatever reason I have a problem that tests recursion that a lot of these people match to graphs which they then flail on, often unable to take advice to rethink the problem) E: thought you said ability to program was bimodal. Companies who can't afford the rates are free to pick up the people who don't realize they can get more I guess? leper khan fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Oct 4, 2021 |
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Oct 4, 2021 13:04
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redleader posted:computer programming pay is bimodal. 150k is probably great for one half of the distribution This so commonly said, but the data on levels.fyi and elsewhere doesnt show this when I looked at it. It has a long tail to the right, but doesn't seem to increase again.
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Oct 4, 2021 15:07
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B-Nasty posted:That's generally the jist. Hadlock posted:Never write or store PII unless you have it in writing from your VP or CTO the lifecycle of that data, and the budget to manage and audit that data. And yeah, encrypt at rest, which is mostly the default at AWS and others now, which is nice. This all makes sense. I'll check out the PCI DSS requirements too. Thanks, guys!
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Oct 4, 2021 16:48
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Any good way to ask about remote work? I've talked to 8 google teams so far. 7 seemed to go positive and there are 2 I'm particularly interested in. My #2 choice told me they'd be open to remote work. I'm still considering going for the #1 team even if they aren't open to remote work, so I'd like to ask if they're open to it without turning them off. Is there any tactful way to do that? Otherwise, I'd be taking the remote-friendly position or relocating from NYC to mountain view. NYC lets you live alone within a 10-15 minute walk from the office for under $3000/mo. My understanding is that's basically unheard of in MTV and you're looking at minimum $3500/mo to live alone within 45 minutes of the office... So I'd strongly prefer to avoid relocating. Team #1 is pretty tempting though. Team #1 is working toward major, critical changes on one of the most important products at the company. On the other hand, it apparently has a lot of senior people and I'm only L4 so a little worried I might not get the chance to do much beyond follow orders and spend all my time heads-down coding. Team #2 allows remote and is completely rewriting a decade-old system that glues other systems together. Sounds like there's lots of fun work to be done because they're only halfway through requirements gathering. My only concern is it's a SWE team expecting to run an oncall rotation for the system they're building and I don't have SRE experience, but I've always wanted some so this might be a good opportunity there. Working remote with team #2 would make it easier to start a business on the side because I could do my coding pretty much any time of day, but working on a product for team #1 that everyone would recognize sounds cool, and I'd be able to work in some capacity on a major feature I'm personally interested. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 01:50
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Mountain View is not nearly that expensive. There are plenty of large one bedroom apartments in the low $2k range. Not sure where your info is coming from but spend some time on Zillow. Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions about the area.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:43
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oliveoil posted:or relocating from NYC to mountain view. Lol no The peak of the rental market in northern California was October 2015 and I almost closed on a 1200 sq ft top floor 2 bedroom with skylights and a view of a nice pool for like $2700 in Sunnyvale (borders MTV) and ended up in a 650 sq ft one bedroom on short notice for $3000 in nob hill (downtown SF). Prices have come down about 10% pre pandemic since then There's a redonkulus amount of 1 bedroom housing under $3000 within a 20 minute walk of Castro Street in MTV, you're getting a pretty nice pad for $3000 in MTV South Bay is boring as gently caress though, and you'll pay 25% more for the same space in SF, if not more If you're single (kind of sounds like it if you're making cross country moves) SF has a significantly better dating scene, unless you like endless first dates eating at cookie cutter sleepy suburban restaurants. It's my experience that people in SF won't date people down peninsula because it's like an hour by train from SF to MTV (I used to take caltrain every day)
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Oct 5, 2021 03:02
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"I am interested in things either way, but I am wondering what your WFH policy is both for people who are local or potentially living elsewhere in the country" That shouldn't turn any team off, should make it clear your options are open, and will give you lots of info so you don't need to keep coming back to it.
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Oct 5, 2021 03:27
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oliveoil posted:Should I let hiring managers know I'm talking to others during team matching? does anyone else get the sense like it’s a totally fine thing to defer the decision but our superstar is managing to phrase it in such an obnoxious way as to botch the whole prospect
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Oct 5, 2021 06:24
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leper khan posted:E: thought you said ability to program was bimodal. Companies who can't afford the rates are free to pick up the people who don't realize they can get more I guess? asur posted:This so commonly said, but the data on levels.fyi and elsewhere doesnt show this when I looked at it. It has a long tail to the right, but doesn't seem to increase again. yep. there are a lot of jobs out there that quietly do in-house crud apps and special snowflake software or whatever for non-tech companies. they're not glamorous and don't pay big tech company money, but they're out there, they pay the bills, and they're always going to be around. i've never really looked at levels.fyi (it is geographically irrelevant to me), but ib strongly suspect it would be biased towards tech industry jobs
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Oct 5, 2021 11:11
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Levels has plenty of non-tech-company jobs there just isn't much data. You can view all the companies for which they have at least one data point: https://www.levels.fyi/company/
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Oct 5, 2021 13:15
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Thanks for the responses everyone! I'll look at prices near the MTV and SVL offices then. Dating is important to me but I don't care if we have a bunch of restaurants to go to. More important to me is the quantity and quality of the female side of the dating pool. I imagine there won't be an endless stream of super cute women on tinder in MTV like in NYC. Lockback posted:"I am interested in things either way, but I am wondering what your WFH policy is both for people who are local or potentially living elsewhere in the country" That makes sense. Am I gonna gently caress it up if I try to hint that in-person wouldn't be an immediate deal-breaker but remote would be an immediate deal-maker? JawnV6 posted:does anyone else get the sense like it’s a totally fine thing to defer the decision but our superstar is managing to phrase it in such an obnoxious way as to botch the whole prospect Yeah, that's why I asked. I was worried that might be the case. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 15:42
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oliveoil posted:I imagine there won't be an endless stream of super cute women on tinder in MTV like in NYC. As someone who has dated extensively in NYC I can tell by your posts that you aren't going to have much success, not because you aren't attractive or successful or anything but either because you'll be crippled by the inability to make a decision or your personality will be so abrasive that it'll be a huge turnoff. Or you're a troll in which case you'll probably meet someone great because this is a good gimmick, and I'd date you.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:15
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Good Will Hrunting posted:As someone who has dated extensively in NYC I can tell by your posts that you aren't going to have much success, not because you aren't attractive or successful or anything but either because you'll be crippled by the inability to make a decision or your personality will be so abrasive that it'll be a huge turnoff.  Oliveoil is honestly the best troll this thread has seen, possibly ever. I don't know if it's purposeful.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:23
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Didn't have trouble dating in NYC after a lot of trial and error but I'm pretty picky re: appearances and I suspect I'd have more competition in MTV.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:52
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