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Vavrek posted:Does he? His post on Usenet has a far more "whoops" tone to it than "I've never read that book." I dunno about Usenet but he denies any and all influences on B5 if you ask him about it on twitter. I remember him getting especially mad about that one. Maybe he was more willing to talk about it back then.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 20:27 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:32 |
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At some point he got pretty frustrated with people trying to make everything a reference to something else. Regarding "Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?":quote:"In WHTMG, Marcus is talking to G'Kar about his friends and says he's had "drat few of them, and most of them are dead." My instant reaction was "That can't be an allusion to Return to Zork." Can it?"
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 20:33 |
Edit: never mind
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 20:38 |
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He has a point that people do get crazy with assuming everything is a reference to something else, but then he goes a little nutty and acts like nothing has ever influenced him and B5 is entirely original.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 20:40 |
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Grand Fromage posted:I dunno about Usenet but he denies any and all influences on B5 if you ask him about it on twitter. I remember him getting especially mad about that one. Maybe he was more willing to talk about it back then. I could see being pissed off about people saying either "Oh, he made a Canticle for Leibowitz reference" or "JMS totally just ripped off A Canticle for Leibowitz" when the truth was he was just thinking along similar lines, and drawing similar conclusions, without recognizing the parallel work until he'd established his own.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 20:44 |
I honestly think that Jordan Peele's "gently caress it, Being John Malkovich is a prequel to Get Out" response is a lot easier to respect. Why would you care if people theorize about what references you're making in your work.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 20:52 |
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Grand Fromage posted:I dunno about Usenet but he denies any and all influences on B5 if you ask him about it on twitter. I remember him getting especially mad about that one. Maybe he was more willing to talk about it back then. I mean, both statements can be true. He can have read, or at least had Canticle explained to him, and then come up with the story without referencing it, only later noticing the similarities.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 21:09 |
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Alhazred posted:
I mean, this level of absolutely moronic, baseless fan wank drives me insane as a fan. I can only imagine how annoying it must be to 1) have it constantly applied to your own work, but then, 2) to be endlessly asked about it by people, so I can see how you get there.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 21:10 |
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Grateful thanks to the Rangers Propaganda Corps for funding and supporting this series
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 21:12 |
I once spent about two months trying to come up with a name for a cowboy character that hadn’t been used before in a movie or whatever Finally I settled on “Shane” and published Lmao
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 21:13 |
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I'm on Season 5 Episode 6 Strange Relations. I really don't like Byron. This whole telepath sheltering thing is going to go loving sideways badly.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 22:30 |
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Alhazred posted:I honestly think that Jordan Peele's "gently caress it, Being John Malkovich is a prequel to Get Out" response is a lot easier to respect. You don't have to field questions about the references ALL THE TIME. I would get sick of it in days. Especially since a lot of the sorts of fans likely to Tweet JMS directly are the sort to say something like "Twilight was an influence on the Ivanova-Marcus relationship, right?" JMS ruined his health and at one point was forced to double-mortgage his house because WB accounting screwed up on S4 and the production had no money for a month, bringing his world to the screen as close to his vision as he could manage, and then spends decades fielding questions that amount to "you pretty much just did Lord of the Rings, didn't you?" I'm willing to cut him a little slack in being tetchy. Nobody comes to our places of business and complains that we're changing a tire or hitting a baseball or filling out a form or writing an e-mail in an "unoriginal" way. I have also never read anything from him implying or stating that he wasn't influenced by other writers. He just seems awfully disinterested in having long conversations about his work being someone else's idea first. If Grand Fromage can point to a tweet or statement JMS made to the contrary, I'm ready to stand corrected.
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 22:55 |
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Hollismason posted:I'm on Season 5 Episode 6 Strange Relations. I really don't like Byron. This whole telepath sheltering thing is going to go loving sideways badly. You just hate him for his hair. His beautiful, gorgeous hair. A minimum of 30% of the entire telepath colony budget was going to Byron's hair care products. I'm certain of it. (30 is probably way too low an estimate.) Why would that raise any red flags at all?
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 23:28 |
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ultrafilter posted:At some point he got pretty frustrated with people trying to make everything a reference to something else. Regarding "Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?": Heh - it is a reference, but not to Zork. There's an old Scottish poem that accompanies a toast - and thus appropriate for Garibaldi to know - which runs thus: Here's tae us! Wha's like us? drat few, and most o 'em deid!
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# ? Oct 3, 2021 23:39 |
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Got to episode 7 Season 5 Secrets of Soul. Franklin is pretty high and might about helping the Hiyaak. Still don't like the Telepath storyline.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 01:30 |
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I mean, say what you will about GRRM, but he had my favorite author's response I've ever witnessed. Someone had asked him about ASOIAF and the changing lengths of seasons and had all of these questions about orbital periods and stellar bodies and held up, what I assume was, a stack of papers with the math explaining all of this and basically asked "is this mathematical proof I came up with to explain the long summers and winters what you made up for Game of Thrones?" GRRM just looked at this guy and said "No: I just made it all up."
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 02:19 |
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:GRRM just looked at this guy and said "No: I just made it all up."
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 02:44 |
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I got to the Penn and Teller episode. Also apparently it was also written by Neil Gaiman so that was a big surprise. Pretty good episode so far. edit: Oh hey big loving surprise that the telepath colony turned into a total poo poo show because their leader had a martyr complex. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Oct 4, 2021 |
# ? Oct 4, 2021 02:51 |
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Hollismason posted:Got to episode 7 Season 5 Secrets of Soul. Franklin is pretty high and might about helping the Hiyaak. Still don't like the Telepath storyline. Franklin is pretty arrogant throughout the series. It’s an interesting writing choice, but certainly consistent with some brilliant doctors I’ve known. And it drives the worst in him (stim abuse, because of course lives will be lost if he trusts anyone else to do the work) as well as the best (his refusal to hand over his medical research on the Minbari, his work running the underground railroad). After meeting his father, it’s clear it runs in the family, too.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 04:08 |
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Just got to the "Grail" episode on rewatch. For some reason I thought that was the dude who'd opened fire on the Minbari kicking off the war but I guess that's a later episode.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 08:05 |
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Grand Fromage posted:I dunno about Usenet but he denies any and all influences on B5 if you ask him about it on twitter. I remember him getting especially mad about that one. Maybe he was more willing to talk about it back then. There's a huge huge difference between not writing in references intentionally and not being influenced by other works. I've never seen him deny influence.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 08:28 |
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Small White Dragon posted:Just got to the "Grail" episode on rewatch. For some reason I thought that was the dude who'd opened fire on the Minbari kicking off the war but I guess that's a later episode. Same.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 12:10 |
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Grand Fromage posted:He has a point that people do get crazy with assuming everything is a reference to something else, but then he goes a little nutty and acts like nothing has ever influenced him and B5 is entirely original. I don't know where you may have seen that, but he absolutely does not. He goes on an on about how LotR influenced him, how the Prisoner influenced an episode etc. etc.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 13:34 |
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Doctor Zero posted:I don't know where you may have seen that, but he absolutely does not. He goes on an on about how LotR influenced him, how the Prisoner influenced an episode etc. etc. The Prisoner didn't just influence And The Sky Full of Stars. JMS nearly got Patrick McGoohan to play Knight Two after Walter Koenig was forced to pull out following a heart attack. McGoohan reportedly loved the script but was busy - making Braveheart, IIRC.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 14:02 |
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i love that thread title so so much
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 14:10 |
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Jedit posted:The Prisoner didn't just influence And The Sky Full of Stars. JMS nearly got Patrick McGoohan to play Knight Two after Walter Koenig was forced to pull out following a heart attack. McGoohan reportedly loved the script but was busy - making Braveheart, IIRC. Correct. That's exactly what I mean - he is incredibly transparent, and quite honestly won't shut up about, his influences and references. That's why that statement makes me go . E: The one thing that drives him nuts as stated earlier, is people who toss out ideas. I have to imagine that there have been times he's taught of something that someone happened to guess and post on twitter, and then he has to change it. That's got to be annoying. Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Oct 4, 2021 |
# ? Oct 4, 2021 14:51 |
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sebmojo posted:i love that thread title so so much hey Reboot....
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 15:17 |
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Doctor Zero posted:E: The one thing that drives him nuts as stated earlier, is people who toss out ideas. I have to imagine that there have been times he's taught of something that someone happened to guess and post on twitter, and then he has to change it. That's got to be annoying. There’s the whole Passing Through Gethsemane thing, where the episode was originally planned for Season 2, but a fan messaged him on a BBS saying what a great idea a story about a mind wiped criminal would be. This led to JMS having to put the episode on hold until he was able to get legal documentation confirming that the episode was written/plotted prior to being contact by the fan and any similarities were coincidental.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 18:42 |
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Zaroff posted:There’s the whole Passing Through Gethsemane thing, where the episode was originally planned for Season 2, but a fan messaged him on a BBS saying what a great idea a story about a mind wiped criminal would be. This led to JMS having to put the episode on hold until he was able to get legal documentation confirming that the episode was written/plotted prior to being contact by the fan and any similarities were coincidental. I have seen fans try to sue people for less, so that was probably a safe call.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 18:50 |
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Grand Fromage posted:If you want to make JMS extremely mad tell him that. He insists he never read Canticle and that bit of the episode is all original and in no way inspired/a tribute. He gets similarly mad when people point out the style of editing during, I think, The Exercise of Vital Powers (Garibaldi's interrogation), is directly aped from Homicide: Life on the Street and that he'd never heard of the show. Doug Netter later said that JMS specifically asked for "the Homicide look."
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:06 |
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I just really enjoy everyone posting a bunch of stuff that JMS, one of the OG Terminally Online people, supposedly said or do and no one is linking to poo poo.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:07 |
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I once saw JMS and another piece of media in the closet and they were making references and one of the references looked at me.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:15 |
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CainFortea posted:I just really enjoy everyone posting a bunch of stuff that JMS, one of the OG Terminally Online people, supposedly said or do and no one is linking to poo poo. Forget it, Cain, it's folklore.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:28 |
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I don’t think you need rigorious sourcing for this really.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:31 |
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Any source at all would be nice. Even then, its been decades. I am willing to believe a man could forget certain things.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:41 |
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https://www3.cs.stonybrook.edu/~ezk/b5jms/jms-says.txt
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:44 |
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I mean it’s more likely JMS is just like that from what I remember from his time as a comics writer
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:46 |
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The day I spend hours going through JMS' twitter feed to make a point on a forum is the day I need to log off forever. He's one of the few people I read there, he gets mad if you ask about B5 referencing stuff. I like B5, I think he's an interesting dude but he also can be super defensive. If you don't believe me, that is okay. I grant you that right.
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 21:49 |
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It's okay, I already had that right. I'm just going to start quoting people and going "nuh uh"
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 22:19 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:32 |
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Why are you acting like a child
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# ? Oct 4, 2021 22:26 |