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That's how I've always heard it. "I terror it." "Doesn't work."
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Oct 4, 2021 17:20
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goferchan posted:There used to be a great thread in this subforum for assorted old TCGs and some of the designs people posted there were fascinating. Has that wound up in the archives? I used to have it bookmarked but lost it and can't figure out what to search for, but if anyone has a link handy I'd appreciate it Man, I would love to read that if you can find it. I only just got back into MTG last year and it's sent me down memory lane when it comes to these old CCGs. I've even been hunting down scanned copies of Scrye and Inquest from back in the day to find articles about them.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:58
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reading the original version for illusionary mask.. when you're ready to flip it over you can just remove the counters? is that it? why even have counters on the mask? was it a reminder to show how much mana was used to cast it so when it flips over the player can't say he put down X mana when the creature cost X+5 mana? nobody at my school had these early weird magic cards.. they played like djinn and shivan dragons and what not but never any of the cards that required parsing text.. i think the most complicated one someone owned was like sengir vampire.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:58
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MeinPanzer posted:Man, I would love to read that if you can find it. I only just got back into MTG last year and it's sent me down memory lane when it comes to these old CCGs. I've even been hunting down scanned copies of Scrye and Inquest from back in the day to find articles about them. Still had it in my bookmarks https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3447461
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Oct 4, 2021 18:05
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MeinPanzer posted:Man, I would love to read that if you can find it. I only just got back into MTG last year and it's sent me down memory lane when it comes to these old CCGs. I've even been hunting down scanned copies of Scrye and Inquest from back in the day to find articles about them. When I went to find my Magic cards at my parents' house a couple weeks ago, there were a bunch of Scryes and Inquests in the attic along with my old gaming magazines. Next time I go over there I'll grab them
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Oct 4, 2021 18:16
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Also the box of cards had a few other random CCG cards I don’t remember ever getting. I didn’t even know there was a WWF CCG.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:21
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Spinnerooni is a great name for wheel effects.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:40
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Pablo Nergigante posted:I didn’t even know there was a WWF CCG. WWF/E Raw Deal is actually my favorite CCG of all time. The sideways cards are for a Pre-Match/Mid-Match side deck, there was an elaborate pre-match setup phase where the players could dictate the rules of the match by playing Mangers/Venues/Stipulations/Feuds. It was incredibly interesting mechanically.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:50
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Oct 4, 2021 18:52
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Also the box of cards had a few other random CCG cards I don’t remember ever getting. I didn’t even know there was a WWF CCG.
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Oct 4, 2021 19:07
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God. I pretty much played all of these games in the late 90s/early 00s. Raw Deal was extremely cool and a group has been continuing the game with virtual sets so I still get some games in with pals. DBZ had a lot of cool mechanics back then too. You could play all one color with a pre-game style card for bonuses but there were different versions of styles if I remember right, so not every red style deck was exactly the same. I even think at one time in tournaments if you overkilled someone enough they were totally out of the tournament.
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Oct 4, 2021 19:11
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Lol is that the full name of the card. If so that kicks rear end
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Oct 4, 2021 19:11
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Qwertycoatl posted:Yeah I conflated bad templating and "oddly specific and verbose rules text"
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Oct 4, 2021 19:13
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Strong Sauce posted:reading the original version for illusionary mask.. when you're ready to flip it over you can just remove the counters? is that it? why even have counters on the mask? was it a reminder to show how much mana was used to cast it so when it flips over the player can't say he put down X mana when the creature cost X+5 mana? That's not how Mask works. Mask lets you cast creatures facedown for their amount + anything. So you can cast Phyrexian Dreadnought for 1, 1U or 100UUUUBBBBRRRR Mana. What you'll get is a 2/2 face down spell with no name. Then, that creature has a replacement effect that any time it would deal or receive damage, or become tapped you instead turn it face up and have it deal, recieve, or tap. The trick is mainly to cast creatures with bad ETB or Entry replacement effects skip those. That Phyrexian Dreadnought I mentioned before? Well now it attacks as a 2/2 to get under your ensnaring bridge, and the turns face-up and oh my god it was a 12/12 the whole time!
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Oct 4, 2021 19:18
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Toshimo posted:WWF/E Raw Deal is actually my favorite CCG of all time. The sideways cards are for a Pre-Match/Mid-Match side deck, there was an elaborate pre-match setup phase where the players could dictate the rules of the match by playing Mangers/Venues/Stipulations/Feuds. It was incredibly interesting mechanically. There are other fans of raw deal that exist? Holy poo poo.
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Oct 4, 2021 19:32
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Strong Sauce posted:reading the original version for illusionary mask.. when you're ready to flip it over you can just remove the counters? is that it? why even have counters on the mask? was it a reminder to show how much mana was used to cast it so when it flips over the player can't say he put down X mana when the creature cost X+5 mana? You aren't talking about the original version. You are talking about the weird mid-2000s version they used for Masters Edition. The original version didn't use counters and didn't alter a creature's power/toughness. It was very much a "trust the other player not to lie" card which is why it got cut from Revised.
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Oct 4, 2021 19:46
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Fond memories of the LotR TCG, dumping my entire fellowship deck into play on turn one and then drawing full shadow hands for the entire rest of the game. A Wizard is Never Late.
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Oct 4, 2021 19:58
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The best bad dead tcg is .hack//ENEMY
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Oct 4, 2021 20:03
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Toshimo posted:You aren't talking about the original version. You are talking about the weird mid-2000s version they used for Masters Edition. The original version didn't use counters and didn't alter a creature's power/toughness. It was very much a "trust the other player not to lie" card which is why it got cut from Revised. ah thanks.. that clears what version i was looking at.. then my complaint is about the masters card since it makes it a bit confusing why you need more than 1 counter to signify that the card was summoned via the mask effect. looking at the rulings from gatherer, it's looks like its to make sure your opponent used enough mana to cast the card once the effect ends but it also says that the caster must properly use the right mana types/colors to cast the card.. so why isn't that being tracked by "colored mana counters" or what not... not a big deal but just weird wording to me. it could have just said all face down cards get a "mask counter" and any card cast this way must have the right mana cost and type and you would just keep track of it outside the game.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:08
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Strong Sauce posted:ah thanks.. that clears what version i was looking at.. then my complaint is about the masters card since it makes it a bit confusing why you need more than 1 counter to signify that the card was summoned via the mask effect. It was their poor attempt to get it functional on Magic Online. It was never sensible.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:13
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Strong Sauce posted:ah thanks.. that clears what version i was looking at.. then my complaint is about the masters card since it makes it a bit confusing why you need more than 1 counter to signify that the card was summoned via the mask effect. one of the rules of thumb generally in magic is that any card having more than one counter on it is very bad, specifically because it's hard to distinguish what a particular counter means (ikoria broke this, but this is why ikoria's ability counters came in-pack and were specifically identifiable explicitly as what they were supposed to be). this is why there's the cancels out rule for +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters having a mess of counters equal to mana cost on a creature just to "note" mana cost would be bad, basically that's never really stopped wizards though
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Oct 4, 2021 20:15
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They just printed a guy who gets +1/+1 counters, but for your whole team, and he goes in decks that put out a lot of regular +1/+1 counters.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:18
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Lone Goat posted:Still had it in my bookmarks Makes you wonder if these games would have done any better if magic hadn't already claimed the most straightforward terms.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:27
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Fantastic Foreskin posted:Makes you wonder if these games would have done any better if magic hadn't already claimed the most straightforward terms. Almost none of magic's iconic terms (tap, summon, upkeep, sorcery, instant, artifact, enchantment) are that universal or useful. Plenty of things used Ready, Activate, Expend, Fast, Monster, Treasure, etc. just fine. The glut of lovely CCGs killed itself with lovely designers and editors, and latching onto pop culture fads, not because magic squatted on the terms.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:35
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resistentialism posted:They just printed a guy who gets +1/+1 counters, but for your whole team, and he goes in decks that put out a lot of regular +1/+1 counters. It sounds like you're stating this as a rebuttal against the idea that WotC doesn't mix counters. +1/+1 counters are just +1/+1 counters. It doesn't matter what source they came from.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:42
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Oct 4, 2021 20:53
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That's not multiple counters on one permanent though. That guy is just an anthem effect on a body. Anthem effects don't hit memory issues the same way. Toshimo posted:Almost none of magic's iconic terms (tap, summon, upkeep, sorcery, instant, artifact, enchantment) are that universal or useful. I have to disagree, I played Lost Ruins of Arnak last weekend and it was a pain trying to translate tapping to people who had never played MtG.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:55
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People itt talking poo poo on 90s tcgs having silver bullets like Golgothian Sylex and City in a Jar aren't a thing (I know they're different don't @ me)
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Oct 4, 2021 20:58
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They've done cards like that before 
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Oct 4, 2021 20:59
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Yes, but the point is that the creature gets valor counters on it, but goes in a deck that will likely also put +1/+1 counters on it. The enchantment and the artifact posted above won't typically have a mix of counters.
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Oct 4, 2021 21:00
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TacoNight posted:Yes, but the point is that the creature gets valor counters on it, but goes in a deck that will likely also put +1/+1 counters on it. The enchantment and the artifact posted above won't typically have a mix of counters.
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Oct 4, 2021 21:03
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Yawgmoth posted:Oh man, I (partially) remember that DBZ game. It had five different colors of fighting styles and there was no cost to just running anything you wanted, but iirc you got some kind of bonus for sticking to one color? And all the orange cards were waaaaaayyyyyyyy better than anything else. A friend and I each bought a starter deck and like $10 of discount boosters at walgreens and I opened the super-mega-ultra rare Goku that was allegedly like $120. I traded it to the LGS for a box of Odyssey and saw it sit there in the case until they went out of business because the owner flat out refused to have any space for people to play at all ever and treated anyone who wanted to browse/buy anything that wasn't baseball cards like poo poo. The DBZ game was great but had some massive flaws. The funniest one was when the Cell Saga set came out and they printed Android 18 with a static ability that let you scry 6 before entering combat. (You drew three cards before combat each turn you had the initiative.) So everyone literally had to play Android 18 if you wanted to win purely through card selection. Tack on that Orange was more-or-less DBZ’s blue with all the best generic counters, Orange 18 became The Deck. Near the end of the game’s life (right before it extended to DBGT), they gave up and just hard coded the scry 6 into the rules. 
AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Oct 4, 2021 |
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Oct 4, 2021 21:06
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For the latest set full art lands - where the art is black and white and there is a colored border… about half of the basics I have have this colored border as matte, the other half is shiny… are there two versions or is it just inconsistent printing?
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Oct 4, 2021 23:22
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Dehtraen posted:For the latest set full art lands - where the art is black and white and there is a colored border… about half of the basics I have have this colored border as matte, the other half is shiny… are there two versions or is it just inconsistent printing? two versions i think
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Oct 4, 2021 23:32
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Dehtraen posted:For the latest set full art lands - where the art is black and white and there is a colored border… about half of the basics I have have this colored border as matte, the other half is shiny… are there two versions or is it just inconsistent printing? That's the spotglosss treatment and the regular. It's intentional
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Oct 5, 2021 00:56
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TacoNight posted:Yes, but the point is that the creature gets valor counters on it, but goes in a deck that will likely also put +1/+1 counters on it. The enchantment and the artifact posted above won't typically have a mix of counters. Just to be clear, you're arguing against creatures being able to create any kind of counter at all except +1/+1 because other cards might put +1/+1 counters on it. I think wotc is correct not to cut off a big chunk of design space for that reason. I don't think multiple counters is that hard to keep track of.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:39
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Magic has actually been pretty good about not mixing counter types on creatures because it is in fact easy to mix up when players are using dice for all types of counters. That said we're in the world of WotC only giving a poo poo about digital play which is why they didn't actually give a poo poo about logistics issues with Mutate or multiple types of ability counters on a creature in Ikoria or how in paper people might have a werewolf die and still tracking day/night after that just in case another werewolf ever gets drawn is easy to forget/annoying, or the fact that you can have +1/+1 counters and valor counters on the same guy and confuse which counter is which.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:47
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If wotc is comfortable printing Crystalline Giant and its ten separate counters, I think a card with one kind of counter that can, potentially, obtain a second kind is not a problem.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:52
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:If wotc is comfortable printing Crystalline Giant and its ten separate counters, I think a card with one kind of counter that can, potentially, obtain a second kind is not a problem. This was the single most commonly called out card for "lol WotC clearly doesn't give a poo poo about paper logistics any more cause Arena will handle it" in the first set where it really started being a large-scale trend in the game.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:56
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Incidentally, ability counters haven't been seen since Ikoria. I guess it didn't work out. Three other creatures use non-+1/+1counters in MID, one counts them to transforming, one uses them after transforming, and the third is Sludge Monster.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:04
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