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It really, really sucks that the people most vocal about how bad Star Trek has been recently are a bunch of bigoted right-wing reactionary shitheads, because the the whole brand is an unfunny joke now, just not for any of the reasons these idiots think it is. I wonder how many people are driven away from fan spaces regardless of what they think of the new material because of these loving assholes. I absolutely despise the fact that I have to quantify "but I'm not a loving Nazi" if I meet another trekkie and they ask me what I think of the new shows. I figure most people who are reasonable that have a problem with the franchise these days have just quietly moved on to greener pastures because there's so many other options for space-based entertainment these days. Only sick fucks like me and I guess those really unhealthy looking dudes from RLM continue to post about it like a close relative died or something. What a loving train wreck all around.
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Oct 4, 2021 22:28
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| # ? May 29, 2024 23:13 |
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Nah RLM moved on a while back and they have been pretty open that just because new trek is bad doesn’t make old trek go away. So no reason to be mad at it
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Oct 4, 2021 23:01
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In 30 years there is a new Trek coming out after a hiatus when the trek singularity got out of hand and it's somehow bad that tighclops inadvertently lumps Disco in with "classic trek" during a discussion about new new trek and nobody even disputes it.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:01
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Tighclops posted:It really, really sucks that the people most vocal about how bad Star Trek has been recently are a bunch of bigoted right-wing reactionary shitheads, because the the whole brand is an unfunny joke now, just not for any of the reasons these idiots think it is. I wonder how many people are driven away from fan spaces regardless of what they think of the new material because of these loving assholes. I absolutely despise the fact that I have to quantify "but I'm not a loving Nazi" if I meet another trekkie and they ask me what I think of the new shows. It's not just Trek, these fuckers have invaded basically every popular media sphere now and they succeed in making things actively hard to both enjoy and criticize anymore because they are media illiterate as a result of their political views and personality issues. The good news is, all the stuff that they poison the discourse over is flourishing despite them because the vast majority of people like it but are not vocal about it, so it's amusing to see them come up with even more insane and befuddled conspiracy theories as to why the world is working against them and their prognostications are always wrong. Like how Kathleen Kennedy and Alex Kurtzman are somehow fried from LucasFilm and CBS three times a day now and Disney is buying billions of dollars worth of empty theater tickets in order to... turn a profit on a movie they already sank $100M into?
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Oct 4, 2021 23:14
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I feel like after sampling all the pre-Discovery Treks I most enjoy DS9 and Enterprise. I watched Picard and I didn't hate it but I also mostly didn't feel very excited either. Just became a thing to watch over dinner.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:17
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Zurtilik posted:I feel like after sampling all the pre-Discovery Treks I most enjoy DS9 and Enterprise. I watched Picard and I didn't hate it but I also mostly didn't feel very excited either. Just became a thing to watch over dinner. Picard needed a strong second draft pass, a set of scripts completely written before the show went into production and to have been made 10 years ago. In time it'll be Overton Window'd into being "decent Trek" once the white hot ball of internet rage moves onto something else, like how Enterprise is now considered to be a "good" Trek series, and how the Prequels are now considered "good" Star Wars movies.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:23
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I will always hold the grudge against the prequel Star wars movies.
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Oct 5, 2021 00:28
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Enterprise was always good.
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Oct 5, 2021 00:32
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nine-gear crow posted:It's not just Trek, these fuckers have invaded basically every popular media sphere now and they succeed in making things actively hard to both enjoy and criticize anymore because they are media illiterate as a result of their political views and personality issues. The good news is, all the stuff that they poison the discourse over is flourishing despite them because the vast majority of people like it but are not vocal about it, so it's amusing to see them come up with even more insane and befuddled conspiracy theories as to why the world is working against them and their prognostications are always wrong. Like how Kathleen Kennedy and Alex Kurtzman are somehow fried from LucasFilm and CBS three times a day now and Disney is buying billions of dollars worth of empty theater tickets in order to... turn a profit on a movie they already sank $100M into?  Agreed on every point.
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Oct 5, 2021 00:34
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I don’t know who likes the prequels now. I know this forum used to have the option everyone liked the prequels until RLM poisoned their minds, but for the most part I don’t think many people care anymore
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Oct 5, 2021 00:40
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I have a funny feeling that the material that followed also contributed to why things like ENT and the Prequels are looked back upon more fondly now than when they were new. By the time the people that are growing up with the current crop of stuff (lmao, lol) are old enough to look back fondly on it we'll all be busy scrambling for guzzoline to run the war rigs in order to flee another calamity I don't think anybody really cares anymore but various groups of existing fans, and CBS/Paramount/Whoever knows it and is happy with what they're making off of that market. Everything's loving crazy now, movie theatres could be dying while billion dollar studios pay for astroturfing campaigns on reddit, anything worth watching is on streaming services that you're probably pirating poo poo from anyway, etc.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:04
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The redemption of the Prequels was mainly driven by The Clone Wars and stuff like that, the prequels are a few hours of live-action glimpses at characters you can fall in love with in the series.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:07
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I think there was always going to be a subset of people who liked the prequels well enough, especially among those who were young when they came out, so some amount of rehabilitation was kind of inevitable. But that still seems to be a pretty unpopular opinion. By and large, they are still The Ones That Sucked. If nothing else, Jar-Jar is guaranteed to never be cool. Enterprise I personally enjoyed because it felt a lot cooler than Voyager, but I can also see how it was an easy show to be frustrated at while it was airing. Because yeah, they were really blowing their last shot at saving the franchise in a lot of ways. But without that weight on its shoulders, it's easier to enjoy.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:17
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90% of the prequels were always good. They're marred a bit by the 10% that is embarrassingly bad, but they're B+ Star Wars movies.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:20
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At risk of opening a can of worms, what’s the problem with RLM? YouTube recommended them to me to go with my TNG watching and it’s been good? Half in the bag doesn’t do much for me, but Best of the Worst is fun and I’m enjoying the TNG reviews.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:21
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MikeJF posted:The redemption of the Prequels was mainly driven by The Clone Wars and stuff like that, the prequels are a few hours of live-action glimpses at characters you can fall in love with in the series. Redemption of the prequels was also helped by the sequel trilogy. Episode 9, yikes. Harder to call 1-3 that bad after seeing 9. I watched Enterprise well after it aired and enjoyed it more than a lot of this thread seems to. As long as you can enjoy the humans being space idiots, it is a fun series. It was the 3rd Star Trek series I watched. I can see being disappointed with the series if you went into it with story expectations that never happened. Voyager has higher quality individual episodes than Enterprise but Enterprise is way easier to watch as a series. Spacebump fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 01:22
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Arivia posted:At risk of opening a can of worms, what’s the problem with RLM? YouTube recommended them to me to go with my TNG watching and it’s been good? Half in the bag doesn’t do much for me, but Best of the Worst is fun and I’m enjoying the TNG reviews. Nothing really, I like them. Best of the Worst is good. They're a bit of a sausage fest, and when they did have a woman on the vibes were a little off. They have some grumpy old man opinions. They pushed the 'reviewer is a serial killer' schtick too far in their old famous Plinket star wars reviews. I think the issue some people have with them is that they've been pretty influential in a few spheres like Star Trek and Star Wars fandom, so by now their opinions are held up like cannon.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:28
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RLM is grumpy old men who were last relevant in like 2010 but they are good and noble because I share most of their opinions. Also they are from Milwaukee so please grade on a curve. They have not had easy lives. There was some backlash to their Mr. Plinkett character because he was too creepy which was fair I think. He was too creepy. To understand how RLM became popular you have to understand that when they got started your only options for movie reviews on Youtube was old media, CinemaSins, or Crazy Steve's Nazi Ravings. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 01:55
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The prequels aren't great movies, but they're okay. They don't always hang together, but a lot of the bits are good. I think that part of their legacy was that they were one of the first things the internet, in its infancy, bonded over being negative about, and that covers up a lot of their actual qualities as movies.MikeJF posted:The redemption of the Prequels was mainly driven by The Clone Wars and stuff like that, the prequels are a few hours of live-action glimpses at characters you can fall in love with in the series. Individual characters of the prequels is one of the bigger weaknesses, since a lot of characters kind of have confusing motivations or the plot relies on them being largely unaware. Obi-Wan is the main sympathetic character. I think Lucas might've been too much of an old man to formulate Anakin's teenage angst, but the argument Anakin has with Obi-Wan on Mustafar seems all too real now that I'm older. Arivia posted:At risk of opening a can of worms, what’s the problem with RLM? YouTube recommended them to me to go with my TNG watching and it’s been good? Half in the bag doesn’t do much for me, but Best of the Worst is fun and I’m enjoying the TNG reviews. I really hated the whole Plinkett gimmick, but underneath all that, I didn't think any of the criticism it was making was insightful or interesting, and it often involved being willfully ignorant of the actual movie, so I didn't want to watch any of the other stuff. I think a lot of people in the business of making fun of bad movies often get repetitive and have to exaggerate how bad the movies are in order to keep the content rolling, so it's more interesting if people are actually open to liking the movies they watch or even if people are just talking about something they actually like.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:55
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I mostly enjoyed Enterpise during its first run, and while it wasn't my favorite, I liked it a lot more than Voyager. It was mediocre during most of its run, but every so often it would stumble upon a moment, or story beat, or bit of character development that was really good. I like ENT.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:01
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Enterprise is helped a lot by the performances of Jeffrey Combs, John Billingsley, and Jolene Blalock. And even then Connor Trinneer and Scott Bakula, while not outstanding, still turn in very likable (after season 1, at least) performances. Voyager has Picardo, Mulgrew, Jeri Ryan, and uhhhh... hmm. And the latter is only in half the show.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:13
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In rewatching Voyager this year I do think that Tim Russ is underrated as Tuvok. He does a good amount with sub-par material.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:17
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he's my favourite to fill to ship-vulcan role. he gets a few good episodes and he's the main source of "good neelix moments."
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Oct 5, 2021 02:24
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ENT felt like Voyager spraypanted silver/bronze for like, 90% of it's runtime but the remaining 10% was them overcranking the camera because they saw it in Saving Private Ryan or whatever so it felt more like they were really trying to make it punchier Scott Bakula is a talented dude but after seeing him on that NCIS spinoff I think he's just got "leading man mode" that he does so he can just kinda chill and be home by 6 pm on weekdays that explains most of his performances on ENT e: why am I watching an NCIS spinoff you may ask? I don't know this may be a cry for help
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Oct 5, 2021 02:24
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Bit biased obviously due to my avatar. RLM became big for pointing out that the Star War Prequels were poo poo. I am sure they were ones before, but RLM did it in a funny way and from the point of film making, story narrative, and them being SW fans themselves. And most if the internet at the time went 'weird why didn't we notice that it was poo poo like this before?' Most critics were aping Angry Video Game Nerd or Channel Awesome at the time, just staring at the camera and being faux angry at it, so an old man with boomer thoughts and actions were new. I don't mind turning Plinkett into a serial killer, but it did get a bit too far with the olsen twins part I will agree. They are not a youngster aimed channel, its definitely for those like myself who were raised on renting C and D rate movies from the video store.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:29
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Plinkett owns, killing your wife and making it look like an accident is a funny bit
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Oct 5, 2021 02:35
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nine-gear crow posted:It's not just Trek, these fuckers have invaded basically every popular media sphere now and they succeed in making things actively hard to both enjoy and criticize anymore because they are media illiterate as a result of their political views and personality issues. The good news is, all the stuff that they poison the discourse over is flourishing despite them because the vast majority of people like it but are not vocal about it, so it's amusing to see them come up with even more insane and befuddled conspiracy theories as to why the world is working against them and their prognostications are always wrong. Like how Kathleen Kennedy and Alex Kurtzman are somehow fried from LucasFilm and CBS three times a day now and Disney is buying billions of dollars worth of empty theater tickets in order to... turn a profit on a movie they already sank $100M into? These fuckers are even invading power rangers spaces. A few months ago they announced the sixth ranger for the current season and said he's the first black sixth ranger, and a bunch of people started shouting "Forced diversity!!! They went woke!" when the franchise has been like the most diverse kids property since its inception. And the first gay power ranger is in the show now and you know a certain segment of the internet can't process that.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:01
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John Wick of Dogs posted:These fuckers are even invading power rangers spaces. Wow, fuckin' Power Rangers? The show where the first team was made up of 1/3 women, including a black guy, an Asian girl, and a gay man? The epitome is 90s multi-ethnic diverse casting? ...okay 
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Oct 5, 2021 04:13
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Just be thankful (or really worried) that it's in no way confined to nerd media. I'm seeing plenty of people raging that women's sport is getting coverage. Here women's gaelic football and hurling has had a good few years of support and money behind it and is getting decent live and TV audiences. Other sports and TV stations are trying to get that for themselves outside football and hurling (into soccer and rugby, hockey too.) And of course people are screaming about "woke-ism." Even when people make the case that it could just be a cynical business decision to grow audiences, because, y'know, fifty percent of the country is women, plus it's more sport to put on TV, they just don't take it in.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:21
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Enterprise has some okay bits, but definitely the amount that they're trying to cope with 9/11 isn't doing it any favors. On top of hijacking whatever plans they had for an overarching plot, the whole thing where every alien species is a hostile threat to fight rather than be understood really undermines the exploration of the setting. And if the show's gonna focus mainly on the central cast, there's not an interesting enough interplay between characters. They're all dedicated to the job with few hobbies or aspirations outside the job. Minimal social dynamics because most of them respect the chain of command. Dr. Phlox never seems to leave the sickbay.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:25
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It's Archer that wrecks it for me and it's a shame because I adore Scott Bakula and always have. But Archer is such a pissy little idiot. He leaps to hostility for no reason at all and whenever the writers try to write 'cocky and devil-may-care' they just land on 'moron'. Maybe he gets better later or in episodes I haven't seen.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:28
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I genuinely liked that Archer is kind of a moron since nobody should know what they're doing and he got his job through nepotism. I don't know if they were doing it intentionally, I suspect not, but it would've been a satisfying character arc through the series to start out as a dumbass over his head and gradually turn into one of the greats. Sisko gets a little of that, not by incompetence but growing past his disillusionment with Starfleet post-359, but Kirk/Picard/Janeway were all set up as being great from day one.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:46
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I’m hesitant to say it’s intentional given the writing team behind it, but Archer does have a decent arc where he starts off as a xenophobic failson prick and then gradually becomes more open-minded and eager to cooperate with alien races. It’s derailed somewhat by the Xindi poo poo (gently caress season 3, I don’t care what anyone says), but it’s present throughout the whole show if you squint a bit.
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Oct 5, 2021 05:07
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Kibayasu posted:It’s okay. It was real real good. Kinda funny Tasha got her best episode after leaving the main cast though.
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Oct 5, 2021 05:49
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I watched up to the weirdly homophobic and transphobic Risa episode and I feel like I watched too many episodes
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Oct 5, 2021 05:51
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this is definitely an unintentional aspect of the show imo, the writing wasnt skilled enough to be doing this on purpose, but an important way to remember to read enterprise is to keep in mind that archer and trip are both literally nepotism hires. archers dad was an a warp researcher that had also done flight/astronaut poo poo and was grooming archer for it because he made him to his first flight test before he was 12 years old, trip was also a nepotism hire (hes trip the third after all) because he was basically lifelong bros with archer and was part of the team that unfucked his dads lovely warp core and got them to go warp 2.5 and get the humans to let them resume testing. the vulcans explicitly wanted a different captain and were disappointed in the humans picking archer, feeling he wasnt mature enough and didnt have a grasp of command or what his mission really was, which they were definitely right about. but then, thats the entire point of the show, isnt it. we have the potential to learn and grow and adapt in ways that we can't fully understand until we're really in that situation, and that growth can be beneficial or it can be disastrous. its not just about self development, but learning how youre growing and pruning off the branches that feel like they could become negative.
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Oct 5, 2021 09:45
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Enterprise reads like an American going on a business trip around Europe and getting mad that they don't speak English, won't accept his money, and expect him to take off his shoes indoors. It has some okay stuff going on but it never gets weird like TOS or even TNG could be sometimes. Star Trek needs some strange poo poo to go down to keep it interesting.
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Oct 5, 2021 10:18
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Having Plinkett be a serial killer weirdo is self-deprecation. It's beating their critics to the punch of saying that only a monster shut-in would care about Star Wars this much. He served his purpose long ago, online media is different now, and Mike has clearly become comfortable wearing his heart on his sleeve in regards to, for instance, Star Trek. I am sure they only keep the character around because large parts of their fan base expects it, and it makes them a lot of money.
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Oct 5, 2021 11:14
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I like Trip. I feel like in another dimension where Brad Pitt didn't do very well he is playing Trip. (RIP).
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Oct 5, 2021 11:18
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Arivia posted:At risk of opening a can of worms, what’s the problem with RLM? YouTube recommended them to me to go with my TNG watching and it’s been good? Half in the bag doesn’t do much for me, but Best of the Worst is fun and I’m enjoying the TNG reviews. I don't think anyone on this page was calling RLM bad, but I could be wrong. I think it got confused with the concurrent discussion about alt-right fanbase drama.
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Oct 5, 2021 12:21
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