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in case some of you don't recognize that rear end in a top hat by name, he's the second guy to run "ycombinator", which is the *the* central cultural institution in the silicon-valley/tech-startup world. his job is to hand a couple dozen pairs of 26 year old white guys six figure checks every six months based on their "innovative and disruptive" ideas. oh and he's also a close personal friend of peter thiel. you cannot invent a more perfect caricature of the silicon valley technosolutionist "libertarian" (right wing psycho) than him, because he is very literally the blueprint they all model themselves after to try and get funding.
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Oct 5, 2021 12:15
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That makes sense. Yeah I had never heard of him.
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Oct 5, 2021 14:07
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So you're saying he's Elrich Bachman.
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Oct 5, 2021 15:37
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DOOM-ISM is an effective strategy by the fossil fuel industries to prevent any action that could effect their profits. I'd love to follow the $$$ for some of these folks. I think things will suck, but the amount of suck can be effected by serious actions.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:27
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Do you have a source for this photo, or a specific location?
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Oct 5, 2021 16:58
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VideoGameVet posted:I think things will suck, but the amount of suck can be effected by serious actions. Shh.. you know where this kind of talk goes.... lol
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Oct 5, 2021 17:16
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VideoGameVet posted:DOOM-ISM is an effective strategy by the fossil fuel industries to prevent any action that could effect their profits. Yeah, whatever evidence you have for this would be pretty useful in discussions with people, so please post it.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:16
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VideoGameVet posted:DOOM-ISM is an effective strategy by the fossil fuel industries to prevent any action that could effect their profits. Doomism absolutely 100% plays right into the hands of the O&G industry and the billionaire class. It's why I find the whole "we're hosed we're doomed lmao" attitude to be poisonous and dangerous. There are millions of people giving everything they have to try and change the world, right now. Join them, don't blackpill yourself on the future.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:44
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Hope and act for the best. Prepare for the worst.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:46
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Yeah the Oil and Gas industry thrive off people believing there's no way out and that we should just continue doing business as usual.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:47
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RIP Syndrome posted:Hope and act for the best. Prepare for the worst. Indeed. We can be clear-eyed about the realities of the future without descending into blackpilled nihilism that only serves to guarantee nothing better can happen. Things are bad, they could always become even worse. We're fighting for the best future we can possibly achieve.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:49
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How are u posted:Indeed. We can be clear-eyed about the realities of the future without descending into blackpilled nihilism that only serves to guarantee nothing better can happen. Things are bad, they could always become even worse. We're fighting for the best future we can possibly achieve. I agree, but it's not just the realities of the future anymore. It's the realities of right now. I mentioned hope, but it means a lot less than it used to.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:12
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How are u posted:Doomism absolutely 100% plays right into the hands of the O&G industry and the billionaire class. It's why I find the whole "we're hosed we're doomed lmao" attitude to be poisonous and dangerous. See point twelve of this comic: https://www.celinekeller.com/discourses-of-climate-delay Based on an intelligence briefing from Cambridge University Press' Global Sustainability Vol. 3. Cambridge University Press Global Sustainability Vol. 3 posted:5. Surrender
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Oct 5, 2021 18:15
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Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, whatever evidence you have for this would be pretty useful in discussions with people, so please post it. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/ quote:Another case involves Michael Moore’s recent documentary Planet of the Humans, which contains a laundry list of deceptive facts and bad arguments against renewable energy. An industry advocacy group known as the American Energy Alliance spent thousands of dollars promoting this film. Conservative foundations and media outlets all came out of the woodwork to support the film. quote:Conservative media are promoting people such as Guy McPherson, who says that we have 10 years left before exponential climate change literally extinguishes life on Earth and that we should somehow find a way to cope with our imminent demise. I call it “climate doom porn.” It’s very popular, it really sells magazines, but it’s incredibly disabling. If you believe that we have no agency, then why take any action? I’m not saying that fossil fuel companies are funding people like McPherson; I have no evidence of that. But when you look at who is actually pushing this message, it’s the conservative media networks that air his interviews.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:15
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road potato posted:Do you have a source for this photo, or a specific location? Pretty sure that photo's making the rounds as being an example of the flooding in Oman.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:18
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VideoGameVet posted:https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/ Sorry, I meant specifically evidence that it's a "strategy by the fossil fuel industries," not just that it benefits them, which seems obvious. So this bit of the article makes that link not particularly useful: quote:I’m not saying that fossil fuel companies are funding people like McPherson; I have no evidence of that. But thanks anyways, and if you find evidence in the future I'd still love to see it.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:26
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Sir Kodiak posted:Sorry, I meant specifically evidence that it's a "strategy by the fossil fuel industries," not just that it benefits them, which seems obvious. So this bit of the article makes that link not particularly useful: I think the case for Moore's film getting promo funds from the fossil-folks is sound. It will take some more digging to find out the connect to doomism ... but the media sharing it is often aligned with the fossil stuff. I didn't mean to make http://theclimatetrail.com doom-ist, which is why I added an eBook that discusses the science and offers some suggestions. But I did want to scare people.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:30
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Correct messaging on climate change seems really difficult, since on one hand there's the complacency from false hope and on the other there's complete paralysis. And in between there are all the other forms of messaging including "just the facts" realism and the "kinda the facts but with a positive spin" that have been out there for decades without much to show for it either.
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Oct 5, 2021 19:18
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RIP Syndrome posted:Correct messaging on climate change seems really difficult, since on one hand there's the complacency from false hope and on the other there's complete paralysis. And in between there are all the other forms of messaging including "just the facts" realism and the "kinda the facts but with a positive spin" that have been out there for decades without much to show for it either. Right, that's part of why I was curious about the literal financial ties. Because it seems unavoidable to notice that doomerism can be useful to the the fossil fuel industry. But, as the link VideoGameVet posted points out, they also take advantage of the distinctly non-doomer notion that individual consumer action can fix climate change. This fits with the fact that, in general, capitalism has been very successful at incorporating opposition to it as simply another opportunity for profit. That's why I was curious about doomerism being an affirmative strategy rather than merely one more thing that capitalism has subsumed into itself.
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Oct 5, 2021 19:38
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I just posted this in the US News thread, but Patrick Boyle had (what I thought) was a good general summary about the problems that come with "greenflation." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH8dkkrGIm8 I do feel like unless policymakers really tackle the full gamut of effects that going green will have on our society, we're going to be in for massive pushback before we even get far enough to make a dent in the problem.
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Oct 5, 2021 20:04
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VideoGameVet posted:https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/ This sounds to me just like the predicted tack of climate denialism, going from "it's not real" to "we're not the ones causing it" to "nothing can be done about it". All of which reinforces status quo thinking, that it's easier not to do anything about it than to enact the large scale social changes necessary to mitigate it in the best-case scenario and survive it in the worst-case scenario. It's the same as the supposed debate over whether voting matters or not - we can be for expanding voting rights while also pushing the narrative that voting alone is insufficient to create a just society. Similarly, we can be for climate change mitigation and CO2 reduction while also accepting that large-scale disruptions and collapses from climate change are already locked in, and that existential risk reduction is on the immediate agenda. 
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Oct 5, 2021 20:25
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Like no poo poo things will be more expensive if we accurately reflect climate damage in their monetary price, we've been externalizing this cost for a loving century to allow for massive economic expansion. The hard reality that no one wants to face is that to make a dent in the climate apocalypse the western world is going to have to take a massive hit to quality of life as we currently define it, no more plastic poo poo, international vacation, or driving thousands of miles a month. The technology isn't there and won't be there to hit our emissions targets without massively cutting consumption and production, which will necessarily drive the costs of those goods higher. That's why it's not 'what if we accidentally make the world better for no reason', it's what if we completely blow up our way of life and lose our comforts and the world still burns. There's no magical technical solution to emissions, carbon capture and sequestration won't save us, we can't scale green energy fast enough, we have to address underlying patterns of consumption and how society is structured if we want to change anything in a meaningful way and lmao if you think that is happening in the next five years. You really can't address it piecemeal and expect individual corporations and consumers to make a difference because it's structural problems we face, not problems with how we live in the current framework of society.
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Oct 5, 2021 20:44
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:Like no poo poo things will be more expensive if we accurately reflect climate damage in their monetary price, we've been externalizing this cost for a loving century to allow for massive economic expansion. The hard reality that no one wants to face is that to make a dent in the climate apocalypse the western world is going to have to take a massive hit to quality of life as we currently define it, no more plastic poo poo, international vacation, or driving thousands of miles a month. The technology isn't there and won't be there to hit our emissions targets without massively cutting consumption and production, which will necessarily drive the costs of those goods higher. That's why it's not 'what if we accidentally make the world better for no reason', it's what if we completely blow up our way of life and lose our comforts and the world still burns. Ya, this is just about the size of it. It's going to take structural change that will fundamentally alter the way we're used to society operating. I'm focused on work related to the building trades and real estate. There's absolutely no way to achieve carbon emission reduction targets with the developer led model of building we currently follow, and even groups like the US Green Building Council are captured by profit based industry. We need to decouple development from the real estate market. They'll keep building houses in Arizona and New Orleans as long as people will buy them. We can't solve this piecemeal, like you say. We need people buckled down on every sector pushing for structural change.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:39
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To reiterate, "Don't have children" is an extremely rational reaction to the coming climate apocalypse, and accusing college kids of doomerism for making the rational observation that no one in power is gonna do poo poo to stop climate change is toxic optimism
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Oct 5, 2021 23:18
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A big flaming stink posted:To reiterate, "Don't have children" is an extremely rational reaction to the coming climate apocalypse, and accusing college kids of doomerism for making the rational observation that no one in power is gonna do poo poo to stop climate change is toxic optimism I don't think the "don't have kids" part was what they took issue with, that is a very rational belief. Its the idea that we should just accept our fate and do nothing to fight it.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:23
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I mean why even go to college then.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:28
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CommieGIR posted:I don't think the "don't have kids" part was what they took issue with, that is a very rational belief. Its the idea that we should just accept our fate and do nothing to fight it. It's not "we", it's kids coming out of college, seeing that no one has ever done poo poo to push back on climate change, and believing that no one is ever gonna do poo poo I say that's a rational assessment
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Oct 5, 2021 23:29
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A big flaming stink posted:It's not "we", it's kids coming out of college, seeing that no one has ever done poo poo to push back on climate change, and believing that no one is ever gonna do poo poo The important thing isn't being rational or realistic about what the climate looks like and is going to look like. The important thing is being optimistic. For example, there's a ton of money flowing into green vc businesses right now. Those investments will pay off. If you personally allow yourself to become depressed or despairing about what's happening to the world, then you're just doing exactly what big oil wants you to do, and you're part of the problem. Look towards the people out there starting green businesses if you want a model of how you should be reacting.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:39
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Sharkie posted:The important thing isn't being rational or realistic about what the climate looks like and is going to look like. The important thing is being optimistic. For example, there's a ton of money flowing into green vc businesses right now.  you're....doing a bit, right?
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Oct 5, 2021 23:43
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Naturally the most important issue at hand is "what happens to the AARP when there aren't any more 'Retired Persons?'" This and more, tonight on "MIssing the Forest for the Trees." 
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Oct 6, 2021 00:06
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A big flaming stink posted:It's not "we", it's kids coming out of college, seeing that no one has ever done poo poo to push back on climate change, and believing that no one is ever gonna do poo poo It's not rational. The rational thing is to organize and take control of political systems to enact the changes we need. Depression is a natural response, but that doesn't make it a rational response. The media forces that stoke and promote a depressive response are extremely dangerous. Don't give in to that poo poo. Have some fight in you.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:11
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Yeah just vote! Maybe it's your fault the world is burning for noting vote!ing harder? If you had just vote!d things would be better. Meanwhile, the us government shows nothing is gonna get done here unless you burn it all down and start over. I'm gonna catch a 6er for this but the 'rational' thing to do when you look at the scale of what's coming is to get a gun and start shooting politicians and CEOs and the rich until things change, but that's not realistic or natural, even if it's rational. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 6, 2021 00:16
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How are u posted:It's not rational. False. The situation is untenable and there is little reason to bet on change happening anymore than there is reason to bet they'll cure death in our lifetime. Acknowledging this reality is not depression. You can absolutely hope for the best and make the completely rational decision that because of the odds of that hope happening are low you probably shouldn't subject a kid to whats coming or chain a pretty big no take backs responsibility to your shoulders as the biosphere starts to fail. Your mentality isn't even hope it's just willfully blinding people so they continue on as business as usual. Right now you are looking at a cancer patient given six months to live and chastising them for not believing in a miracle. Sedisp fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 00:17
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Sedisp posted:False. The situation is untenable and there is little reason to bet on change happening anymore than there is reason to bet they'll cure death in our lifetime. Acknowledging this reality is not depression. You can absolutely hope for the best and make the completely rational decision that because of the odds of that hope happening are low you probably shouldn't subject a kid to whats coming or chain a pretty big no take backs responsibility to your shoulders as the biosphere starts to fail. What are you even saying? A)Do nothing and Preserve the status quo. Because B) do literally anything at all. Only crazy doomers and other fossil industry shills argue for option a.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:37
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Speaking as a fairly doomer person I would not say that we're against hard work to fight climate change, we're just waiting for a path forward that doesn't amount to funneling money into some politician's warchest and nothing else. Organize! Vote! Ignore an unbroken trend of organized capital clawing every leash and fetter from its neck for decades regardless of what party is king of the hill. You enforced optimists are the ones doing nothing, plodding away at a treadmill labeled "Change" trying to compete with smoke belching engines of industry and privilege rachetting the wheel in the opposite direction. Don't project your blissful nonimpact on us. At least we'll sometimes snap and toss a monkey wrench into the whole mess. But hey can't talk about that.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:40
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How are u posted:It's not rational. The rational thing is to organize and take control of political systems to enact the changes we need. Why do you assume people haven't been trying to do this already for years with little or nothing to show for it? How do you propose we take control of the political system to ensure the changes we need are made? The problem with addressing global climate change is specifically that the political will does not exist that is required to make the changes that we need to in order to avoid the worst of it. Politicians know that it'd be political suicide to even take the most basic of steps to address climate change. Want to unite the left and right in tne US? Start talking about banning cars and stopping flights, and shutting down major oil and gas industries in areas that are highly dependant on them for their economy. Any sort of re election after that would be an uphill battle to say the least. How do you combat that? How do you stop voters from punishing politicians who take steps against global warming that directly impact the voters quality of life in such a negitive way? If we can't clear that hurdle, I don't see how we can effectively address this short of an unexpected last minute miracle technological breakthrough
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Oct 6, 2021 00:41
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VictualSquid posted:What are you even saying? Exactly. As long as literally anything at all is being done, then you should have hope. Better things may be a few years away, but as long as you believe they're just over the horizon, and literally anything will make them manifest, then you can have hope. Because otherwise you fall into despair or violence. And being weak enough to despair makes you an oil industry shill. Better things are possible. They're happening right now. For example, just think of how much worse we'd be if Trump was still in office. As long as people are doing something, anything, then it means we can hold out hope just a little longer.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:41
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Sharkie posted:Better things are possible. They're happening right now. For example, just think of how much worse we'd be if Trump was still in office.  https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-administration-takes-steps-resume-oil-gas-drilling-auctions-2021-08-31/ gently caress off lmfao e: seriously, biden is the biggest accelerationist in this goddamn room what the gently caress
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Oct 6, 2021 00:48
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If you read somebody say "organize" and you interpret that as "just vote!" then you've already made an error. Find your local Sunrise kids, find your local enviro orgs. Get plugged in with your local groups and start there. If you think that one day a climate champion is going to just appear on your ballot, well, you may be waiting forever. Organizing is about finding those people first, then getting them elected, then holding them accountable. It's active, it requires work, it requires effort, it requires you to put yourself out there and engage with your community.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:50
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VictualSquid posted:What are you even saying? Personally, I've been going after option C): Realize the future will not be like the past and take steps to maximize my happiness in the here and now instead of justifying XYZ miserable poo poo in favor of a future payoff. I'm not saving every cent I can for retirement, I'm not basing my decisions on where they'll put me in 10 years, and I'm not planning on having a happy, calm retirement to go do all the stuff I wanted to do while I was working. Sure it's not gonna fix the whole problem but because I can't do that I'm focusing on my happiness and the happiness of my friends in the moment.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:55
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