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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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We just saw a huge propaganda operation funded by the 1% to convince Americans that covid is a fake disease and just the flu, and that even if it is real anyone asking you to put off buying your treats for the common good is stealing your freedom or whatever. The nice advertising men on the teevee and the computer made people believe that liberty is synonymous with fried egg rolls at the Cheesecake Factory. But this is not villainous or concerning because it was done by our richest, and therefore most trustworthy, citizens and for upright noble motives like profit, not for alien and suspicious motivations like saving other people's lives.
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Oct 5, 2021 21:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwqN3Ur-wP0
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Oct 5, 2021 21:58
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VitalSigns posted:Lol if you don't think advertising and propaganda is deployed to control Americans' minds. Other Americans though, right? Your thoughts are all pure and unclouded, right?
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Oct 5, 2021 21:59
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This is literally already being discussed in think tanks. The final stage of state development. You may think it seems villainous. But imagine each day you wake up, sure of your task, free from anxiety and angst, in complete control of your thoughts. That is a level of freedom higher than any brought by the capitalist spectacle.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:04
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Take it to the media analysis thread since that's what it has become about, let's keep things specific to COVID here and no more accusations of perfect mental armor or mind control or dancing around nerve stapling or whatever.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:08
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Epic High Five posted:Take it to the media analysis thread since that's what it has become about, let's keep things specific to COVID here and no more accusations of perfect mental armor or mind control or dancing around nerve stapling or whatever. Counterpoint: this doesn't belong in the media analysis thread because it's loving insane.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:10
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Discendo Vox posted:Counterpoint: this doesn't belong in the media analysis thread because it's loving insane. Seconding this. Seriously EHF, what the hell?
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Oct 5, 2021 22:11
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Discendo Vox posted:Counterpoint: this doesn't belong in the media analysis thread because it's loving insane. Fair enough, just the first that came to mind. Either make a new thread or drop it, I'm willing to give a lot of leeway toward distrust of the media or whatever but this isn't a space for conspiracy theories and posting but I don't really have a lot of patience to talk stuff through this evening
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Oct 5, 2021 22:13
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Fritz the Horse posted:I agree, internet mind control would be an easy way to enforce lockdowns, vaccination, and NPI usage to end the pandemic. Wonder why we didn't do that. The largest content creators on Facebook would rather hawk alternative medicine and rightwing activism fundraising. "Since September, posts from conservative media figures, news outlets and pages in support of Donald Trump made up for 68% of the top performing links on Facebook." https://www.businessofbusiness.com/articles/alt-right-media-thrives-on-facebook-dan-bongino-ben-shapiro/
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Oct 5, 2021 22:31
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Epic High Five posted:Fair enough, just the first that came to mind. Either make a new thread or drop it, I'm willing to give a lot of leeway toward distrust of the media or whatever but this isn't a space for conspiracy theories and posting but I don't really have a lot of patience to talk stuff through this evening I'm going to very strongly suggest to you that the right-wing presence on modern social media platforms is deliberately--not accidentally or by happenstantial emergence-- a mind control ecosystem, and if you'd entertain it we can begin dropping research on the moneyed intentionality behind viral rightwing conspiracies in here or in another thread. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 22:32
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Potato Salad posted:I'm going to very strongly suggest to you that the right-wing presence on modern social media platforms is deliberately--not accidentally or by happenstantial emergence-- a mind control ecosystem, and if you'd entertain it we can begin dropping research on this in here or in another thread. I don't disagree and would love to really dig into it, but it's only tangentially related to COVID itself and would drown everything else out since it's such a huge, contentious subject. If there's not a thread for it right now I'd definitely prefer it get its own space, but what that thread would look like and what the ground rules would be are something I'd need to think about (or someone else is free to make one instead)
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Oct 5, 2021 22:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Other Americans though, right? Your thoughts are all pure and unclouded, right? No one is immune to propaganda
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Oct 5, 2021 22:40
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Epic High Five posted:the ground rules Peer reviewed research, from respected researchers  the Tea Party movement is 11 years old this year; this isn't exactly unexplored territory. rightwing amplification of talking points through social media networks is measurable, engagement by engagement, and thoroughly researched by public policy and informatics labs that have grown into full-blown, publicly-funded institutes Edit: I have them on ignore, but from the quote: is OOCC really doing What About in a thread about the Covid pandemic and limited tangentially-related issues like "how did vaccine hesitancy and microchip/biowarfare conspiracies bloom from fringe movements into something that an enormous swath of Americans perceive as a great threat to American civil liberties?" Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 22:47
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"Yes the ship is sinking, but did you consider that glass of water you spilled 4 weeks ago during dinner? You're at fault too." Good faith discussion has to involve some kind of sense of proportion.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:55
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Potato Salad posted:"Yes the ship is sinking, but did you consider that glass of water you spilled 4 weeks ago during dinner? You're at fault too." Can you explain what you're trying to get at here in plain language, because right now you're so deep in intricate witticisms and sick burns that I have no loving idea what argument you're actually trying to make beneath all the pithy remarks
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Oct 5, 2021 23:00
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VitalSigns posted:Yes you can, if you devote enough resources you can make workplaces for the safe enough. Liberal democracies made much more radical changes to their workforce and economies to win world war 2. You seem to be under the strange impression that Delta is only spreading through a) low-income workplaces, and b) low-income workplaces. Capitalism has been a huge driver of a lot of the issues we've seen behind COVID spread, in Australia and New Zealand as much as anywhere else. It is not the sole driver. Fallible human behaviour is, both in workplaces and in the broader community, and no amount of fully automated gay luxury space communism is going to be enough to prevent the spread of a variant as infectious as Delta.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:41
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VitalSigns posted:Right, the part you got wrong is where you said that this can no longer happen if you have "too many" cases. That's not how it works, no matter where you start from, the function works there same way. If R0 is below 1, the virus dies out, if it's above 1 cases go up. There's no number of cases where it makes sense to go "oh ok that's too many cases, let's relax and let cases go up even faster" Well it is how it works in reality. Not a capitalist paradigm or whatever, objective reality. i.e if you have so many cases that the only way to get R0 < 1 is to cease food delivery, close hospitals, and ban all forms of transportation then yeah, there's to many cases. Your dogged insistence that this would all be easily solvable if everything was just completely different to how it actually is must be quite tiring. Vasukhani posted:This is literally already being discussed in think tanks. The final stage of state development. You may think it seems villainous. But imagine each day you wake up, sure of your task, free from anxiety and angst, in complete control of your thoughts. That is a level of freedom higher than any brought by the capitalist spectacle. Definite vibes of this being whispered in your ear while you're strapped into a dentists chair with your eyelids pinned open.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:45
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How are u posted:I mean one could kind of argue that the CCP has sort of done it, utilizing their intense media control and willingness to back up mandates with military force. VitalSigns posted:Thank god we killed 700,000+ people instead The funny(not actually funny) thing about this number is the implication that it is in any way final. China seems to be managing their occasional minor delta outbreaks well enough for the majority of their population to live normal lives. And with the new city-sized quarantine operation they just built in the time it took for some redshirt in a fly over state to go from posting anti-vax memes on facebook to grinning in a picture on a GoFundMe for their funeral bills to be paid by the wife and 4 kids they left behind, it doesn't seem like China is in all that untenable a position. I also looked it up and it appears that China doesn't even have a national vaccine mandate, some local governments were getting overly aggressive and harassing people about it over the summer and the CCP shut it down. Now a few of them are just talking about vaccine passports. Do we, on the other hand, have a Coronavirus pandemic exit strategy at all? Last fall we had a year to prepare for open schools and instead of gaming out the next 12-24 months people just hyper focused on the vaccines making everything 2019 again resulting in lax population NPI habits, getting completely blindsided by a very nasty surprise variant, and schools doing literally nothing to get ready for reopening this Fall. Given the lessons of the last year, has there been any spitballing on the plan after the mandates are completed and the boosters are out? Has there been any serious discussion about what things might look like a year from now, two years, or five years?
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Oct 5, 2021 23:50
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-Blackadder- posted:Given the lessons of the last year, has there been any spitballing on the plan after the mandates are completed and the boosters are out? Has there been any serious discussion about what things might look like a year from now, two years, or five years? I think it is pretty clear how it will go. We continue as we have for several more years as we claw our way up to full vaccination. We go through successive waves and variants, until the virus has basically infected everybody who hasn't been vaccinated. Eventually, some years down the line, covid becomes a nuisance disease and we live with it for the rest of our lives. That's basically the play for every nation on Earth.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:54
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VitalSigns posted:No one is immune to propaganda You only believe that because they told you to.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:13
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How are u posted:I think it is pretty clear how it will go. We continue as we have for several more years as we claw our way up to full vaccination. We go through successive waves and variants, until the virus has basically infected everybody who hasn't been vaccinated. Eventually, some years down the line, covid becomes a nuisance disease and we live with it for the rest of our lives. The nature of the immune response has Leonardi saying this is physically impossible unless you accept a drastically shortened lifespan as "living with it"
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Oct 6, 2021 00:25
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poll plane variant posted:The nature of the immune response has Leonardi saying this is physically impossible unless you accept a drastically shortened lifespan as "living with it" Why are you allowed to post here, you literally post fake bullshit and we're banned from every covid thread before this. Nothing you post is actual real science confirmed by anyone. And you just spout fake bullshit like this with no actual meaning or rational at any time. Also if anyone actually believes china's numbers for covid you are literally drinking propaganda, the numbers out of china have been faked since day one, and they have been suppressing if not actively faking their covid numbers for the entire pandemic.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:45
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poll plane variant posted:The nature of the immune response has Leonardi saying this is physically impossible unless you accept a drastically shortened lifespan as "living with it" Your links you provided yesterday were replied to if you want to resume discussion of those sources UCS Hellmaker posted:Why are you allowed to post here, you literally post fake bullshit and we're banned from every covid thread before this. Nothing you post is actual real science confirmed by anyone. And you just spout fake bullshit like this with no actual meaning or rational at any time. Is that actual real science confirmed by any reputable authorities? I think you know the first part isn't tolerated here, if you've got an issue with posters themselves take it up with a mod or report it
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Oct 6, 2021 00:49
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Illuminti posted:Well it is how it works in reality. Not a capitalist paradigm or whatever, objective reality. i.e if you have so many cases that the only way to get R0 < 1 is to cease food delivery, close hospitals, and ban all forms of transportation then yeah, there's to many cases. No that's not how exponentials work. the only thing that matters is how many people the average infected person goes on to infect. If it's more than one, cases grow exponentially, if it's less than one cases decay exponentially. The starting point doesn't matter. If you have 10 cases and they each infect less than one person, cases fall. If you have a million cases and they each infect less than one person cases still fall. E: freebooter posted:You seem to be under the strange impression that Delta is only spreading through a) low-income workplaces, and b) low-income workplaces. E2: citation https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/world/australia/new-zealand-covid-zero.html quote:Minimizing Auckland’s outbreak has been complicated by a surge of cases among vulnerable people, including those living in emergency or transitional housing, said Dr. Michael Baker, an epidemiologist at the University of Otago. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 00:54
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poll plane variant posted:The nature of the immune response has Leonardi saying this is physically impossible unless you accept a drastically shortened lifespan as "living with it" Who?
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Oct 6, 2021 00:56
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How are u posted:I think it is pretty clear how it will go. We continue as we have for several more years as we claw our way up to full vaccination. We go through successive waves and variants, until the virus has basically infected everybody who hasn't been vaccinated. Eventually, some years down the line, covid becomes a nuisance disease and we live with it for the rest of our lives. There's literally nothing except wishful thinking backing the assumption that COVID becomes a "nuisance disease" in any reasonable time frame all on it's own. Maybe if we're lucky, but in it's current state it'll probably be a good deal worse than seasonal influenza even with close to 100% vaccination/infection rates (I'm assuming you're not proposing yearly boosters for 90%+ of the population). It's also loving atrocious to label the huge morbidity/mortality toll of prior respiratory diseases as "nuisance" just because our society has decided that they're not worth the hassle of addressing.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:05
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VitalSigns posted:No that's not how exponentials work. OMG we're not talking about points on a graph! HOW...HOW do you get the R0 to less than 1??!?!?!
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Oct 6, 2021 01:05
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Maybe covid will disappear by Easter. Wouldn't that be a miracle folks. God bless! E: Illuminti posted:OMG we're not talking about points on a graph! HOW...HOW do you get the R0 to less than 1??!?!?! Prioritize lives over profits (in other words, do things nobody is willing to do) Most jobs are bullshit jobs, just don't make people do those for the duration of the lockdown. For the essential jobs (mostly done by the marginalized groups that are being devastated by the virus), actually provide them PPE, enough space and NPI in workplaces to keep spread down, enough testing to catch outbreaks, financial support so people aren't forced by necessity to come to work when they feel bad, UBI so people don't have to work. China shut down whole factories making nonessential goods in order to crush the pandemic, for example. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 01:06
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VitalSigns posted:Maybe covid will disappear by Easter. Wouldn't that be a miracle folks. God bless! I don't know why we don't just set the R0 to less than 1.....then it would just go away. So simple.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:09
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Stickman posted:There's literally nothing except wishful thinking backing the assumption that COVID becomes a "nuisance disease" in any reasonable time frame all on it's own. Maybe if we're lucky, but in it's current state it'll probably be a good deal worse than seasonal influenza even with close to 100% vaccination/infection rates (I'm assuming you're not proposing yearly boosters for 90%+ of the population). Maybe you should listen to the experts. This is the last wave of infection. https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1445385563901661185?s=21
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Oct 6, 2021 01:13
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Epic High Five posted:Your links you provided yesterday were replied to if you want to resume discussion of those sources They have been constantly, but the sheer inability for you to actually punish people for posting fake and absolutely ridiculous poo poo in this thread is why a number of actual experienced people don't post here anymore. The fact we have people posting pseudoscience bullshit constantly and repeating it endlessly even when it's been shown to be wrong is a serious issue and directly why several of them have been banned from every covid thread on the forums And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know china fakes their numbers, they have been faking everything related to covid for two years starting with the initial deaths and conditions at Wuhan, and the fact they say 0 new daily cases in a population of over a billion in a recent press release is the most abject level of fake news that no one with any brain cells would believe.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:16
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UCS Hellmaker posted:And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know china fakes their numbers, they have been faking everything related to covid for two years starting with the initial deaths and conditions at Wuhan, and the fact they say 0 new daily cases in a population of over a billion in a recent press release is the most abject level of fake news that no one with any brain cells would believe. What's China's actual number of cases, and where are they hiding all the bodies?
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Oct 6, 2021 01:17
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It's key to listen to expertS, plural the scientific opinion of any one researcher or findings of one publication are not sufficient to draw strong conclusions from Science is a collaborative process.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:18
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You can’t criticize people for posting unsourced claims while also making unsourced claims. Pick a side
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Oct 6, 2021 01:19
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VitalSigns posted:This would seem to be incorrect, since the reasoning given that elimination is impossible is that it's spreading through marginalized groups. In other words, it's not inherent human genetics at fault, but social conditions specific to those groups. This is a reasoning. It is not the sole reasoning. And your armchair CHO solution to that... VitalSigns posted:Prioritize lives over profits (in other words, do things nobody is willing to do) ...pretends the issues is solely about workplace conditions and ignores the fact the virus is also spreading through the community outside of workplaces. Because we are talking about real human beings, not cogs in a machine. Since we're also talking about a real country, on the topic of workplaces, feel free to scan through New Zealand's list of contact sites and tell me which of these supermarkets, petrol stations, bakeries, takeaway places and public transport routes are "bullshit jobs" that we could just shut down: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work...ations-interest
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Oct 6, 2021 01:21
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freebooter posted:...pretends the issues is solely about workplace conditions and ignores the fact the virus is also spreading through the community outside of workplaces. Because we are talking about real human beings, not cogs in a machine. Right which is why I said you needed support for marginalized workers in their workplaces and in their communities where the virus is spreading. Reading: it's fundamental! Just the fact that we have different R0 for different strata of society shows that inequality is responsible for the problem not human nature. If inherent unchangeable human nature were the problem, the virus would be spreading at identical rates through all social classes and it obviously isn't. But again since delta has made us run up against the wall where it's impossible to stop the spread without treating immigrants etc like human beings, then yes I agree with you, elimination will not happen and it's delusional to pretend like we're going to try. May as well just admit it like NZ has.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:27
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VitalSigns posted:Right which is why I said you needed support for marginalized workers in their workplaces and in their communities where the virus is spreading. Reading: it's fundamental! I can tell from the way you've been going on that by "support" you clearly mean financial support and are therefore still pretending that only workplace transmission is a factor. People in lower socio-economic groups are just as likely to flaunt the rules as affluent white communities, it just hits them harder because they tend to have larger households and broader and more closely intertwined social/family networks. No amount of UBI in the world is going to result in full compliance with lockdown restrictions in people's social lives. You continue to try to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:38
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How would you enforce full compliance with lockdowns? Massive expansion of police/security forces and of state surveillance? Is that something you'd honestly advocate for?
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Oct 6, 2021 01:42
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freebooter posted:I can tell from the way you've been going on that by "support" you clearly mean financial support and are therefore still pretending that only workplace transmission is a factor. People in lower socio-economic groups are just as likely to flaunt the rules as affluent white communities, it just hits them harder because they tend to have larger households and broader and more closely intertwined social/family networks. No amount of UBI in the world is going to result in full compliance with lockdown restrictions in people's social lives. You continue to try to hammer a square peg into a round hole. But you are right that zero transmission is impossible, but elimination isn't about getting transmission to absolute zero instantly, it's about the margins. If transmission is happening but each person on average infects less than one person, then cases fall even if lots of transmission is still happening. You don't know what the R0 would be in those lower socio-economic groups if all of the economic/workplace contributors were addressed. It could be that it would still be higher than 1.0 and then you're right elimination would be impossible without something on the level of a world war 2 effort where the government drafted a bunch of people into the army and actually enforced the law. But it could be that if you addressed the financial issues, then the transmission you assert would be left and would still be higher than affluent white people (due to the fiesta gene or whatever) would give you an R0 less than 1 and that is good enough. I'm very skeptical of pronunciations that it's impossible to stop the spread in marginalized communities when you've got epidemiologists admitting straight up that nobody really even tried, and nobody is willing to even address the financial issues that could be addressed without enforcement.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:48
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Fritz the Horse posted:How would you enforce full compliance with lockdowns? Massive expansion of police/security forces and of state surveillance? UBI, instacart credit, PS5s, Disney plus for everyone. Why would you need to leave home?
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Oct 6, 2021 01:52
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