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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Illuminti posted:Here's a good example of what it takes to maintain zero covid What do you want here, you want the kids of sick parents to get covid too, I don't get the objection.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:18
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Pizza is non-essential as hell. Pizza and its entire supply and logistics shuts down until zero covid. There are a lot of jobs essential to normal consumer society that aren't essential at all when the goal becomes getting everyone their 1500 kcal per day, running water, electricity to essential business, and healthcare. poll plane variant fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 04:19
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poll plane variant posted:Pizza is non-essential as hell. Pizza and its entire supply and logistics shuts down until zero covid. Right? gently caress regular food. The US military should just airdrop MREs from helicopters for the entire populace everyday.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:24
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Right? gently caress regular food. The US military should just airdrop MREs from helicopters for the entire populace everyday. You're joking but the meat industry was the site of a ton of outbreaks and doesn't actually serve any purpose in terms of feeding the populace.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:25
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poll plane variant posted:You're joking but the meat industry was the site of a ton of outbreaks and doesn't actually serve any purpose in terms of feeding the populace. what
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Oct 6, 2021 04:27
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Pizza drivers don't actually need to go into the store at all, it's trivial the set up some app poo poo so they notify when they're back and just have a runner put the orders in the trunk. You can also bubble the staff into groups so exposures don't force the entire crew into quarantine. Yes this leads to reduced hours for some people and reduced staffing in general, which you can address through government subsidizing the "missing" hours for people. You can also let normal customers use that app poo poo to have the runner drops the pies in customer trunks. I know because we did all that poo poo at the pizza place in the country i was living when the pandemic popped off. Hell this made closing easier because literally no one paid with money anymore as everything was electronic.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:29
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poll plane variant posted:You're joking but the meat industry was the site of a ton of outbreaks and doesn't actually serve any purpose in terms of feeding the populace. Who says I'm joking? I mean think about it. Those same choppers that are dropping MREs can also be used to surveil their neighborhoods and hunt down and arrest anyone who dares leave their house. Two birds, one stone! We either achieve covid-zero or we die trying!!!
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Oct 6, 2021 04:30
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Animal products are less than 20% of the American diet, if you cut them out entirely you'd still be over 2k per day. Our society is so insanely rich our definition of essential worker is padded in ways we don't even think about.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:30
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He’s the guy walking around in the 80s convinced hiv is so simple, you just stop everyone from having sex or doing drugs globally and can not comprehend why the people trying to explain why that isn’t a solution.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:30
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Main Paineframe posted:Because if the pizza delivery guys work half the amount of time, then either the restaurants need twice as many pizza delivery guys (which means twice as many people leaving their homes to go stand around in a restaurant) yeah what's wrong with this, why would it be bad if we had more jobs and each worker only had to spend half the time working that they do now for the same pay. I don't get the objection here. Like you object that workers spend too much time working and are exposed for too long and thus lockdown is unfair, but you don't want them to spend less time working either? Why is 8 hours the magic number to you, if 8 hour shifts are better than 4 in your mind, are 12 hour shifts better still?
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Oct 6, 2021 04:31
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:He’s the guy walking around in the 80s convinced hiv is so simple, you just stop everyone from having sex or doing drugs globally and can not comprehend why the people trying to explain why that isn’t a solution. The difference now is China situation is the equivalent of the US essentially eliminating AIDS within two years of it being discovered. The reason AIDS went off the rails in the US is it was literally mismanaged by the same people who mismanaged covid here.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:32
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poll plane variant posted:Animal products are less than 20% of the American diet, if you cut them out entirely you'd still be over 2k per day. Our society is so insanely rich our definition of essential worker is padded in ways we don't even think about. Maybe in terms of calories but where are Americans going to source their protein? Diverting to plant-based protein can't happen overnight, there isn't the supply available. I'm not arguing for animal-based protein particularly, just the simple fact of supply, you can't flip a switch and shut down all meat production globally and not suffer massive malnutrition. Also this is entirely American-centric. Vast numbers of people globally depend on meat packing industries to source protein and do not have the luxury of readily available alternatives that many of us do.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:35
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Yeah seriously, the reason HIV/AIDS got as bad as it did was because nobody cared that it was spreading through marginalized groups and nothing was done to protect or support them (and then whoops it got into the blood supply and became everyone's problem)
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Oct 6, 2021 04:35
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VitalSigns posted:I'm sorry, you think it's bad that children aren't allowed near their parents who have covid? Err...yes. Jesus Christ. VitalSigns posted:What do you want here? Some perspective? Your entire view of the world seems like you're playing some sort of tabletop game though, so that might be a stretch.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:41
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according to the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization, livestock account for 16% of human energy consumption and 34% of protein worldwide. http://www.fao.org/3/y5019e/y5019e03.htm That does not include fisheries. If we're purely theorycrafting what could happen in an ideal lockdown situation sure yeah shut down meat packing. In the real world that is going to result in mass malnutrition and starvation because you can't switch the world food supply from livestock protein to plant protein overnight.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:42
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Americans eat something like 150% of the RECOMMENDED protein and 180% of recommended calories, we're so far above the minimum in both protein and calories that no retooling would even be necessary here.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:43
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Illuminti posted:Err...yes. Jesus Christ. Uh...ok I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on whether it's good to infect children with covid, good lord E: I think the problem is that a lot of people don't realize covid is a virus that does what it does regardless of our feelings. It's not some miserly scrooge we can guilt and shame into changing its ways, if you go "hey covid Timmy wants to hug his sick mom, you're being very mean by infecting people who hug his mom" covid isn't going to say "oh fine I will hold off you win", it will just infect Timmy and maybe kill him. It would be nice if we could say "hey this is too hard time out" but we can't, if you let kids around infected adults they will get infected and some of them will die. If you ignore the spread of covid because quarantine is too inconvenient, thousands of people will die and kids will be orphaned. That's just reality and you can't bluster a virus into backing down But it seems we will all have to keep learning this lesson the hard way VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 04:43
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poll plane variant posted:Close non-essential businesses, cut customer-facing staff and eliminate in-person retail and customer service entirely, etc. What do you think happened in Australia and New Zealand? It is hilarious to me that rather than actually read and learn about how and why lockdowns stopped working when Delta arose in real-world COVID jurisdictions, this thread is full of Americans wargaming the perfect pizza delivery scenario that Solves Covid.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:46
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freebooter posted:What do you think happened in Australia and New Zealand? Not enough business closings, attempted to operate too much of a normal consumer economy, imo
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Oct 6, 2021 04:47
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poll plane variant posted:Americans eat something like 150% of the RECOMMENDED protein and 180% of recommended calories, we're so far above the minimum in both protein and calories that no retooling would even be necessary here. From some googling, about 25 million animals are slaughtered daily in the United States. https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Todays_Reports/reports/lstk0619.pdf What happens to those animals in the scenario you describe? Where do they go? How are they cared for? Let's say we shut down all meatpacking tonight and enter a super strict two-week lockdown. That's more than 300 million animals that need to go... somewhere. tbh this feels like a bunch of navel-gazing, this is theorycrafting your min/max when it is utterly impracticable in the real world where poo poo actually matters
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Oct 6, 2021 04:49
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poll plane variant posted:Not enough business closings, attempted to operate too much of a normal consumer economy, imo As I've pointed out before, the contact sites for New Zealand and Australia are all publicly available online. https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work...ations-interest A lot of supermarkets, petrol stations, grocery stores and takeaway outlets. People who think we can just shut those down and replace them with home delivery are a) living a fantasy, and b) revealing that they consider the delivery/warehouse/transportation people themselves to just be Lego men in a game who will 100% comply with all COVID restrictions and safe work practices.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:50
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Do you literally huff paint? virtualboyCOLOR posted:This is wrong on a lot of levels it’s pretty insane. Could we not have personal attacks like this in the thread? I know I was on the receiving end of other attacks recently, and perhaps that makes me biased, but I wasn’t the target of these jabs, or of these particular posters. This thread is getting toxic, and it’s to the detriment of everyone.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:51
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Fritz the Horse posted:From some googling, about 25 million animals are slaughtered daily in the United States. https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Todays_Reports/reports/lstk0619.pdf I'm just saying that stricter lockdowns than Aus/NZ used against Delta are obviously possible materially (whole additional industries aren't really essential) and seem likely to succeed given the local strict lockdowns in China have both involved large scale industrial shutdowns and been shining successes.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:52
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poll plane variant posted:Not enough business closings, attempted to operate too much of a normal consumer economy, imo poll plane variant posted:Our society is so insanely rich our definition of essential worker is padded in ways we don't even think about.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:52
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freebooter posted:revealing that they consider the delivery/warehouse/transportation people themselves to just be Lego men in a game who will 100% comply with all COVID restrictions and safe work practices. But several people have mentioned that we would also pay them more and also cut their hours to 4 hours, so them getting covid would not count.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:But several people have mentioned that we would also pay them more and also cut their hours to 4 hours, so them getting covid would not count. Maybe we could make workplaces safer instead of not giving a poo poo?
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Oct 6, 2021 04:54
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Epinephrine posted:OK, I'll bite. Please provide a comprehensive list of essential businesses and/or essential workers so we can see who's non-essential in your view. 20th C style total war economy where healthcare is the war industry and the virus is the enemy. Extremely limited production and sale of consumer goods, no civilian construction, no new cars, strict rationing of a limited variety of foods, run up a maintenance backlog on infrastructure for the duration, no flashy packaging, etc. The flour-sack clothes and roofs patched with cooking oil containers economy.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:57
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VitalSigns posted:Maybe we could make workplaces safer instead of not giving a poo poo? If you can just make workplaces safe why even have essential workers and just make all the workplaces safe instead?
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Oct 6, 2021 04:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:If you can just make workplaces safe why even have essential workers and just make all the workplaces safe instead? Because that is impossible, the goal is R0 < 1, not "all workplaces perfectly safe" The reason you don't want non-essential workplaces running when you're trying to eliminate community spread is because every open workplace will contribute something to R0 and there's a magic threshold you need to stay under if you want cases to shrink and not grow
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Oct 6, 2021 05:01
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poll plane variant posted:20th C style total war economy where healthcare is the war industry and the virus is the enemy. Extremely limited production and sale of consumer goods, no civilian construction, no new cars, strict rationing of a limited variety of foods, run up a maintenance backlog on infrastructure for the duration, no flashy packaging, etc.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:03
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As long as we’re on this “let’s shuffle peoples’ jobs around” hypothetical, here is my proposal: Everyone should put in one week at a job site where hazardous atmospheres are present. Nearly all of these are essential industries anyway. Each person will be trained in the appropriate use of respiratory protection and, it is to be hoped, gain a healthy appreciation of such protection.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:03
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Epinephrine posted:That really isn't an answer. You claimed that what was "essential" was bloated, so be specific. Unless you're actually suggesting we roll back civilization to 1942? You want me to literally come up with a covid-resistant planned economy in full? I'm just pointing out that stuff like the Oreo factory has been open throughout with people dropping dead of covid left and right. Almost everything but like bars, indoor dining, and the most easily-wfhed offices was considered essential.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:09
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Seems weird to me that we're now insisting workplaces can't be safer than they were already when we had workers getting fired for organizing and demanding PPE and even some managers making a betting pool on how many of their unprotected chicken processors would drop dead on the job
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Oct 6, 2021 05:11
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poll plane variant posted:You want me to literally come up with a covid-resistant planned economy in full? I'm just pointing out that stuff like the Oreo factory has been open throughout with people dropping dead of covid left and right. Almost everything but like bars, indoor dining, and the most easily-wfhed offices was considered essential. you said meatpacking should be shut down. do you stand by that? edit: like could you point out, specifically, which nonessential industries should be shut down other than vague cheeky stuff like "toy factories and Oreo factories"
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Oct 6, 2021 05:13
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freebooter posted:As I've pointed out before, the contact sites for New Zealand and Australia are all publicly available online. "Logistics are easy!" --- half of this thread, and also Boris Johnson.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:14
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You could always look at some examples of essential worker lists from other countries to get some ideas Victoria, Australia https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/authorised-provider-and-authorised-worker-list New Zealand https://www.mpi.govt.nz/covid-19-in...s-and-services/
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Oct 6, 2021 05:15
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Everyone should put in a week manning the choppers that are used to distribute MREs.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:17
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Fritz the Horse posted:Let's say we shut down all meatpacking tonight and enter a super strict two-week lockdown. That's more than 300 million animals that need to go... somewhere. We did have negative effects from the disruption of the livestock and slaughter industries earlier in the pandemic that showed how an Iowa hog farm used hyperthermia to mass cull its entire herd https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-iowa-city-iowa-trials-subpoenas-50332a3905f4913d108865d27ee5d21d (updated article on the whistleblower getting off charges, woo) because slaughterhouse machinery is very purpose made. In the hog example, the issue is those suckers grow fast, so they get sent to slaughter at a particular weight which the machinery is made to deal with. If they start getting 20%+ more weight... the machinery simply can't handle it. There's not enough "small time" butchers who otherwise take entire carcasses of varying sizes to process all the ones that get done at the large plants. Then, because much of the industry runs on thin margins and strange processes, the money would run out really quick to keep feeding the hogs. Much of the livestock industry is run such that the farmer/rancher who "owns" the animals doesn't technically own them, the Big Corp "owns" the animal and has kinda leased them to the farmer who has taken on the responsibility of caring/maintaining the animals. Then there's not really a massed depopulation method that's been created for the United States that's widely available/widely utilized. Largely, people probably thought the times it'd be needed would mean there'd be time and ability to run the logistics to get these things dropped onto individual places that needed it. Oopsie. So those farms took the, "break in case of absolute emergency" option and opted to cull the entire herd by Ventilation Shutdown (VSD) which is.... turn off the air conditioning. They even did it more wrong by not pumping in inert gas. The Big Corp who owned the hogs wouldn't have seen much liability (monetary or otherwise) from the loss of that herd, it's the farmer (who may or may not also be some type of small to mid sized corp) who sees all the responsibility. Basically we'd see mass culling of just about every livestock animal and because the responsibility of care/ownership would fall more often to individuals than to Big Corp (i.e. Tyson, etc.), you'd see the heads of those operations suiciding (as we already see when something bad happens on a large animal farm). Not Tyson though, they just ensnare the next sucker. While we have more processes in place to mass depopulate birds (due to having previously known things of avian influenza, exotic Newcastle, etc.), those processes don't really exist well for pigs and cows to occur on a quick basis on a wide scale. Which, imo if we don't have those processes (and given how we treat many of those animals anyway) then you know maybe we shouldn't be raising them like that? Anyway... This also applies to the animal industries in which the animal's carcass is not necessarily the end result desired. The milk (and cheese for that pizza) industry, fiber industry, egg industry, heck even the, "goat herd for hillside clearing" industry would see huge shocks which they would not be able to absorb, because the animals in each of those industries get to the point where they are slaughtered for meat and would need to be cared for between end of use of their previous purpose and future of being eaten. There's also ignoring that there's a decent amount of animal proteins used in the production of animal food, so if you got yourself a Pandemic Pal (tm) shutting those things down could be rather detrimental. While dogs can mostly live on a vegetarian diet, cats cannot (or ferrets). Owlofcreamcheese posted:But several people have mentioned that we would also pay them more and also cut their hours to 4 hours, so them getting covid would not count. There was the other offer of shifting everyone to 10-12 hour shifts which, uh, I never ever want to work 12 hour shifts ever again because those loving suck and you start making mistakes towards the end, but I guess people who largely work in jobs where their mistakes don't really matter don't understand that. Not to mention having to have childcare for those hours.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:19
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HelloSailorSign posted:So those farms took the, "break in case of absolute emergency" option and opted to cull the entire herd by Ventilation Shutdown (VSD) which is.... turn off the air conditioning. They even did it more wrong by not pumping in inert gas. The Big Corp who owned the hogs wouldn't have seen much liability (monetary or otherwise) from the loss of that herd, it's the farmer (who may or may not also be some type of small to mid sized corp) who sees all the responsibility. jesus christ 
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Oct 6, 2021 05:24
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Fritz the Horse posted:you said meatpacking should be shut down. do you stand by that? Food industry in excess of supplying a reasonably suitable ~2000 kcal/person/day in staple form. All consumer goods not immediately necessary (clothes, furniture, appliances, automobiles, etc). Entertainment. All retail other than zero-contact pickup of food and healthcare. Anything that can even attempt to WFH most of all. We did most of this during WW2 and the USSR pared back even further during that period. You're running yourself into the ground betting that you'll win before it all collapses because you're sacrificing stuff like "civilian vehicle production" and "railroad and highway maintenance".
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Oct 6, 2021 05:27
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