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OP-1 trip report: I can see how the thing would be polarizing but I think I got lucky. Now that I’ve moved from learning the features to sampling and recording tracks I’m having a great time. I’m starting to get a bit of muscle memory for jumping around synth engines, tweaking them, laying them on tape, trimming it (deleting it 90% if the time) and just grooving on something while the beat loops. I’m really glad I got one. I’m getting lost in this thing like I would a good book.
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Oct 6, 2021 13:29
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Beaucoup Cuckoo posted:Behold my alter to fart noises. Thousands of dollars of eurorack modules on a $20 card table. Not a penny wasted 
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Oct 6, 2021 13:29
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Beaucoup Cuckoo posted:Behold my alter to fart noises. Please tell me you sample that Otamatone.
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Oct 6, 2021 13:33
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Pollyanna posted:These racks look so pretty yet so expensive. Flipperwaldt has the right of it, what you're hearing is why people like monophonic synths despite polyphonic ones being able to play more notes. A synth being restricted to one note at a time means it can do fun glides and slides to them if they overlap.
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Oct 6, 2021 14:43
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I'm thinking about getting another 303ish synth because I like the sound so more is better. A friend was going to sell me a TB-03 but I moved too slowly and it was sold already. Before just getting one on reverb are there any other neat 303 like synths that I should look into? Preferably in the same price range. The Volcas are a little too small for my taste for this scenario and if I go for a Behringer clone I'd rather wait for their new revision.
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Oct 6, 2021 14:54
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Might be an issue with RYM2612 then, cause I have POLY set to 1 and it still retriggers from attack when keying on before another key on the same instrument has not keyed off. The output on the VST doesn't show any blips in the note-on light, so it's not somehow keying off. ...But, some tinkering revealed that RYM2612 can in fact do legato when monophonic, so it's not the VST. I can also more-or-less replicate that behavior by setting polyphony to 1 and keying the same instrument on in a completely separate parallel track, which requires me to pepper key-offs everywhere. It looks like that's actually the intended way to do legato (which appears to be what this effect is called) in Renoise. In order for legato to happen, some notes have to overlap, and it looks like there's implicit key-off here:  Annoying, but good to know for the future.
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Oct 6, 2021 15:10
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In a tracker environment you'd probably explicitly trigger legato by adding something in the fx column next to the new note, I'm guessing. E: maybe this only applies to samples, I don't know how it would communicate that to vsts. E2: looking at the fx command list, you could insert instant glides for example as a substitute, but for samples only 
Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 15:15
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net work error posted:I'm thinking about getting another 303ish synth because I like the sound so more is better. Wait for the modded out behringers to drop, or just get a td3 and mod it yourself
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Oct 6, 2021 15:54
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Yeah, I suspect Renoise only provides a way to do that manually. Not a huge problem, but it does make me think about how to do this in other DAWs (though I don't know what other options I'd have - trackers are pretty easy to understand, and other DAWs...aren't).
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Oct 6, 2021 15:54
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net work error posted:I'm thinking about getting another 303ish synth because I like the sound so more is better. In terms of 303 options - if you want an authentic sounding 303, the Behringer TD-3 is by far the best price/performance. It basically sounds exactly like some particular 303 might (they all sound a bit different because lol tolerances). Other options for very faithful repros are the Cyclone Analogic TT-303 or the Avalon Bassline - both are WAY more expensive. In terms of 303-adjacent, you have things like the Behringer 101 clone (I think the MS-1 is what it's called?) which is a passable not but exact 101 clone. The Roland boutique (I think it's SH-01A?) is also reportedly very good. If you have a Eurorack setup, the Intellijel Atlantis is not a clone persay but very reminiscent of an SH-101 voice. Also in Eurorack you have the Roland/Malekko System 500 stuff which includes the 510 Synth voice - not a 101 clone but Roland and from the era so you'll get a lot of tones you hear in the more modern Acid stuff. Same with the Behringer 110 synth voice. The Malekko Manther is also inspired by the 101/202 sound and (sort of) workflow. An original Roland MC-202 is still somewhat affordable compared to an SH-101 or obviously a TB-303, although it has some obvious caveats being a 40 year old piece of poorly built plastic and electronics. toadee fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 16:19
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Just get a BassStation 2, it does everything the roland boxes do but better.
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Oct 6, 2021 16:48
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SpaceGoatFarts posted:Looks more like a Pico RND (which is a super useful module in only 3hp) haha you're right. I'm dum.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:46
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If you're looking at 101 type things, maybe consider an MS-20? It's not a 303 but neither is a 101. For pure transistor bass action it seems hard to beat the Behringer one these days
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Oct 6, 2021 17:50
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JamesKPolk posted:If you're looking at 101 type things, maybe consider an MS-20? It's not a 303 but neither is a 101. The reason I brought up the 101/202 type synths is it's in a ton of Acid tracks and is generally part of "the sound" people are looking for. Like even if you're a hardcore old Acid purist it's all over the place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSaanHyWXww
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Oct 6, 2021 17:55
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Hadn't considered a 101 clone, that's a good idea. I'll take a look at some of those and see if I like them.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:04
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I'm voting bass station 2. wanted one for years or shake it up and get the SH 01A
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Oct 6, 2021 18:18
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Can anyone help me with an OP-1 question? I have a guitar I'd like to get into it for sampling/noodling purposes and I have a few questions. 1. I have an iRig HD2, can I use this as a modeling/FX unit and run the guitar into the line in using a 1/4 inch to 3.5mm adapter from the amp output or do I want to go from the headphones out? 2. If I want to noodle around on top of what I've recorded to tape is it possible to just monitor the sound coming from the Guitar/iRig? Chaining I was thinking was: Guitar -> iRigHD2 (amplitube on iPhone for modelling/FX) -> OP-1 Line in, adjust gain as needed. Then Headphones coming from my OP-1 to hear everything.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:43
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Rod Hoofhearted posted:Thousands of dollars of eurorack modules on a $20 card table. It was 17 dollars, bub. Rolo posted:Please tell me you sample that Otamatone. Got it before the eurorack, the nicer model I don't have has an aux out. So not at the moment, but that's a good idea. Plan is to eventually drop the control units into a 3U skiff and then get 64HP back. Can't wait for the new SSF drum module and thinking about getting a metropolix - need to see how treating the deluge as the master sequencer goes. Had a Westlicht Per|former, but it just didn't jive with me. Want something a tad more performance oriented. Beaucoup Cuckoo fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 19:20
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Pollyanna posted:https://youtu.be/1lI7hvKEr7M That is a choice link.  I'm starting to have the same thoughts about my own music: Lots of simple things can combine into more interesting layers better than a bunch of things that are all as complicated as can be. I think learning how to sequence on Volcas and Circuit got me into a headspace where every single sixteenth note has to have something, but that was really just making clutter. Here's a song I wrote last week. I had to consciously slow down and make space in the arrangement multiple times. The original sketch had the drums in double time, and the sung verses stacked up on each other without any space for the Monotron. I'm still fighting the urge, but I'm pleased with the results. https://jocko-homomorphism.bandcamp.com/track/eigengrau
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Oct 6, 2021 21:32
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toadee posted:The reason I brought up the 101/202 type synths is it's in a ton of Acid tracks and is generally part of "the sound" people are looking for. Oh totally! And they're extremely dope synths. I mentioned the MS-20 because it shows up in those old school tracks almost as much as the other two, especially if you're not looking just at bouncing square/saw resonant basslines (like the track you linked is acid but like...), and it tends to get overlooked because not everyone knows about it in that context. It also does more of what I like about the 303 than the 101 does (it's versatile but a little sterile) but thats a very individual judgement. Lol just as a comment on the mercurial nature of genres I hear Computer Madness way more in old school Goa mixes these days than like purist acid/UK rave stuff. But I mean that probably has more to do with trying to extract novelty out of a scene thats 30 years old and counting (both of them) than any statement on the track itself
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Oct 6, 2021 23:14
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Nobody ACTUALLY knows how to program an FM synth patch. You just sit down thinking "hmm maybe I'll make a trumpet today" and five algorithms, 40 pages of scribbled notes, and a newly-developed headache later, you have another loving bell.So Math posted:That is a choice link. Yeah, it's fascinating when you break a song down into its individual components. It feels like a miracle that all these pieces actually make something at the end. Almost like a noneuclidean jigsaw puzzle. I think it makes your song really easy to listen to, too!
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Oct 7, 2021 00:35
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just keep at it. maybe start with a smaller set of operators. you can do a lot with just 2 operators. yamaha had great success selling 2 op keyboards in the 80s. start adding more operators when you're happy with your programming ability
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Oct 7, 2021 00:47
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I was going algorithm-by-algorithm, but ascending operator count is actually a lot smarter.  And yeah there's a stupid amount of sounds you can make with just two operators.edit: Like, uh, this! Whatever this is. Iunno, a steel drum? Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 00:48
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Many of the patches that use 8 operators use like 2-4 to do a quick transient sound one shot and then the rest to do a more slowly evolving sustain (or two), the DX7 is just as much about the envelopes as it is the oscillators themselvesPollyanna posted:edit: Like, uh, this! Whatever this is. Iunno, a steel drum? Dope
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Oct 7, 2021 01:18
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Yeah, I'm realizing that it really does kinda boil down to the same stuff in other synths. Break the sound down, characterize its harmonics, whip up an envelope to match. FM is just a different way of generating the waveform you want. I don't fully understand it, but there's some logic behind it.
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Oct 7, 2021 01:44
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I’ve found plenty of guides telling me all about FM but nothing really laying out any kind of groundwork and saying “use these principles for these kinds of sounds”. Or maybe there aren’t tried and true methods to get digital piano sounds in particular, you just guess a lot.
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Oct 7, 2021 01:45
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The reface has been brilliant for me understanding fm. I had a digit one in the past but it was more on rails if that makes sense. I think the envelope display on the reface has helped me figure out programming fm a lot Still don’t really get the feedback param tho
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Oct 7, 2021 01:52
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echinopsis posted:I’ve found plenty of guides telling me all about FM but nothing really laying out any kind of groundwork and saying “use these principles for these kinds of sounds”. This guy is great at explaining bass patches and only bass patches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XbrTC0NndM
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Oct 7, 2021 01:55
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Fm programming just lends itself to piano patches I feel like.
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Oct 7, 2021 01:58
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FM can make some loving phenomenal sounds. https://youtu.be/D97nGS1hi-4 https://youtu.be/WDrsxKsE7Ro https://youtu.be/zCUZ0vWQaZ8 https://youtu.be/1Gv1B3Byw5s https://youtu.be/dOvfINPELDg https://youtu.be/URWNqs7FEXA I just don’t know how to replicate them or use them, and the patches are either closely-guarded secrets or require decompiling a Genesis ROM. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 03:08
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Don’t worry about all that. Are you composing a song?
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Oct 7, 2021 03:19
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I would like to! Not that I expect to be any good at it. But I do want to at least try. That said, I won’t say no to generating some cool beeps and boops - but the most striking they’ve ever been have been when they play off of each other, and that requires experimentation, experience, and exposure. (Technically, I have composed something. It just wasn’t very good or even all that long. I should revisit it once I get better at mixing and production.)
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Oct 7, 2021 03:25
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What context are you playing music? Do you usually fill a certain role in a group?
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Oct 7, 2021 03:28
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Solo. I have ideas for music tracks now and then and I want to get good at putting them on paper, then in a tracker or DAW, then release when good-enough. I’m not in a band or anything, but making music is so accessible these days that I figured I’d try my hand. I understand that it’s highly unlikely I’ll make anything of note,but at least I might get this stuff out of my head.
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Oct 7, 2021 03:48
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Pollyanna posted:This guy is great at explaining bass patches and only bass patches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XbrTC0NndM Perfect. I’ll watch later but this is exactly what I am looking for.
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Oct 7, 2021 04:45
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I just recently got an Akemie's Castle, which is an FM oscillator for eurorack, and it very quickly became one of my favorite pieces of gear. I've accidentally gotten sounds resembling acoustic instruments, but I find it really fun to explore and see what comes out. I've never had the patience for typical FM synths, so the modular form is perfect for me, and I think gives me a better feel for what to do if I ever try dexed again.
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Oct 7, 2021 05:05
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The only problem with my MPC1000 so far is that I'm worried about longevity of a 15 year old device that I'm physically hitting all the time. I kind of want to pick up a second one like some kind of obsessive hoarder 
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Oct 7, 2021 14:07
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They made a trillion of them and parts are still available for the LinnDrum. Just saying.
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Oct 7, 2021 14:53
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Eh, good point. Incidentally, I just checked eBay and like -- nearly every unit is coming from Japan. What a weird data point.
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Oct 7, 2021 14:57
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echinopsis posted:Perfect. I’ll watch later but this is exactly what I am It's pretty good, actually. Video Guy's advice pretty much breaks down to the following: 1. Identify the different parts, which he calls "layers", of the sound you're trying to make. This benefits from becoming intimately familiar with the sound of whatever instrument you're trying to replicate. For example, for a bass guitar, knowing that there's a beginning percussive "chk" part when the bass is first struck, then a relatively quick decaying high-resonance part (what is resonance?), then a long-term sustaining resonant part that stays at roughly the same level, then finally an ending part that decays quickly from medium resonance to silence. (Interestingly enough, his assessment matches up with the ADSR of a bass guitar. hmmmm  )2. Come up with your own algorithm based off of the parts you identified. For example, for a bass guitar, you'd need to combine at least four oscillators:
Which results in this algorithm:  3. Pare your algorithm down to something reasonable. That algorithm above, for example, isn't available on a 6op let alone a 4op. So, you'll have to condense it somehow. I'm not sure how to do this, myself, but Video Guy does this:
Which results in Algorithm 5, which I'm sure you've seen before:  And indeed, if you load up Algorithm 5 and set all the operators to an initial state, it does sound bass-y right out of the box. It seems like a good fit! So now we have one percussive, highly resonant 2op, and one moderately resonant, quick-release 2op. Easy enough. 4. Determine the envelopes for your modulators and carriers. The envelopes for the carriers are straightforward, since they characterize the volume of the sound:
...but I'm less sure about the envelopes for the modulators, which characterize the evolution of the resonance of each part over time. At this point, we'd have to go back and think about the sound of a bass guitar again. If we listen to it, it starts from dull (for a split second), then quickly reaches spikiness, then mellows out over a period of time before completely going away once the sound fades out. I like to do something silly and actually try and replicate the sound with my own voice, and a bass guitar sounds something like "puh-ehhh-ahhhhhhhh-ooo". So it's kind of like the carrier waves' envelope, with a slightly longer attack rate, longer decay rate for sure, and what appears to be a similar release rate. Video Guy concurs, but extends the release rate a little in comparison.
Which leaves us with these envelopes:  5. Figure out your feedback (on op4 in our case). I have no idea what feedback even does or why we use it, so I'll just defer to Video Guy here. In the case of the bass patch, the feedback will provide a percussive element to stack 2. We want a decent amount of percussion for the "chk", but not so much that we lose out on all the resonance after it in stack 2. Video Guy splits the difference and sticks feedback at something like 50%. 6. Finetune. Now you can sit down at your synth and press buttons. This step differs from patch maker to patch maker, and it's where you get to be picky about envelopes and levels and such. You're basically improvising this step. The patch by this point is pretty good already, and just needs extra bells and whistles and personal touches. This is where having a clear mental picture of the sound you're looking for, as well as a clear understanding of FM synth basics, becomes particularly important. With your algorithms, envelopes, and feedback programmed, tweak:
--- And then, you'll have a decent-sounding patch! I think. Some questions I still have: - What exactly is "resonance" in this case? How do we characterize it? - What exactly does detuning do? IME it seems to even out the harmonic range from a few high peaks to a lot of moderately sized peaks, and is what provides "full" sound. - How do total levels matter on modulators, and what am I trying to achieve with them?
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Oct 7, 2021 16:14
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)