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I have personally only seen 3 SSD's that actually "wore out". One was an Intel DC3x00 drive that was a cache drive (read AND write) in a Synology that was used for Veaam backups. The other two (Samsung) were in an industrial machine, not sure what it was doing (the vendor said backing up files) but it did the same thing, wore it out over 4 years.
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Sep 22, 2021 15:19
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DrDork posted:The only time you're going to be able to tell the difference between QLC and TLC is if your "big program" is 100+GB. It's really not important for normal-person use. DRAM-less isn't much of a problem for modern drives with fat SLC buffers and such, either. I understand that, but if I have one of my 'cheap drives' in a homelab machine and do a big 'yum upgrade' or whatever, you can definitely see a difference.
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Sep 22, 2021 15:20
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Bob Morales posted:I understand that, but if I have one of my 'cheap drives' in a homelab machine and do a big 'yum upgrade' or whatever, you can definitely see a difference. Right. I mean, if $30 isn't a big deal, then sure, get a TLC/DRAM drive and you'll be able to avoid such things. But most people also run Windows where the majority of update work is done in the background during more or less idle time, rather than forcing a yum update/upgrade. Basically QLC drives are fine if you're price sensitive--they're not gonna kill your dog or whatever. TLC are a bit nicer for smoothing out those high-use edge cases.
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Sep 22, 2021 16:49
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For most people the QLC slow write will never be an issue during OS updates or program installs, because even QLC writes are faster than their internet. The new SN550 apparently has 350 mb/s write even to the QLC. If you can download fast enough to exceed that, you're kinda in the 1st world problems zone. (There are occasions it'll show up, like steam preloads -- the files have to be decrypted so that's drive read/write. Don't preorder videogames.)
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Sep 22, 2021 19:15
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Don't most updates download and then install?
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Sep 23, 2021 00:05
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Also if I had a dollar for every time windows started updating when I was restarting for any other reason....
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Sep 23, 2021 00:06
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Bob Morales posted:Don't most updates download and then install? Almost all of them, yes. But most updates are still pretty small, and QLC read speeds are still pretty good. So unless your update is trying to write more than 12GB in a few seconds (which is not impossible, but unusual for anything outside of massive game patches or like a big Windows feature update every year or two), it shouldn't come up very often. Again, if the price difference isn't important, sure, get a TLC drive so you can save yourself that 15 seconds or whatever on a big patch or whatnot. But if the money is important, in day-to-day operation you're not going to notice the difference very often unless your "day-to-day" involves working with big, chunky files on a regular basis.
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Sep 23, 2021 17:15
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We finally ordered some SSD's for our crap server at work... Axiom 960GB Enterprise EV200. Anyone used them? Better than spinning drives I guess.
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Sep 23, 2021 18:02
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Bob Morales posted:We finally ordered some SSD's for our crap server at work... Axiom 960GB Enterprise EV200. Anyone used them? Looks like a pretty standard 2.5" SATA enterprise drive. MLC, silly-high endurance, with ~500MBps transfers and 18k IOPS write / 99k IOPS reads. Nothing terribly impressive, but for $300 for 960GB, it's not a bad deal, assuming you need that level of write endurance and don't have enough NVMe slots. Also if you really want to confuse your accounting department, you can buy them from Lowes for some reason.
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Sep 24, 2021 03:22
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DrDork posted:Looks like a pretty standard 2.5" SATA enterprise drive. MLC, silly-high endurance, with ~500MBps transfers and 18k IOPS write / 99k IOPS reads. Nothing terribly impressive, but for $300 for 960GB, it's not a bad deal, assuming you need that level of write endurance and don't have enough NVMe slots. They don't work in our stupid VRTX because they are SAS so I'm going through their RMA department right now... CDW quoted us Dell drives that were $2k each...
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Sep 24, 2021 13:44
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I'm gonna get a new NVMe drive for windows and games in the next few days so what's safe to buy if you want affordable 1tb with dram ? SN750 ?
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Sep 25, 2021 02:00
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lost my retainer posted:I'm gonna get a new NVMe drive for windows and games in the next few days so what's safe to buy if you want affordable 1tb with dram ? SN750 ? The 1TB P31 is currently $115 after coupon: https://www.amazon.com/SK-hynix-Gold-PCIe-Internal/dp/B08DKB5LWY/ I don't THINK they've hosed around with it yet like other drives have been. Also, do you have a PCIe 3.0 or 4.0-capable motherboard?
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Sep 25, 2021 02:13
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BIG HEADLINE posted:The 1TB P31 is currently $115 after coupon: https://www.amazon.com/SK-hynix-Gold-PCIe-Internal/dp/B08DKB5LWY/ PCIe 3.0 and I'm in Europe so not available here  What's comparable in the Samsung lineup ?
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Sep 25, 2021 02:18
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lost my retainer posted:PCIe 3.0 and I'm in Europe so not availalble here Unfortunately, the 970 Evo Plus HAS been altered since release - it actually attracted a lot of attention a few weeks back. As has the SX8200 Pro, which was the first well-reviewed drive to be altered post-release and start this ball rolling. So yeah, SN750 would be a solid choice if that's available to you. I haven't heard any news of WD having done anything to it.
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Sep 25, 2021 02:21
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Unfortunately, the 970 Evo Plus HAS been altered since release - it actually attracted a lot of attention a few weeks back. As has the SX8200 Pro, which was the first well-reviewed drive to be altered post-release and start this ball rolling. Yeah, the 1TB SN750 is 115€ on amazon right now I'm gonna order that.
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Sep 25, 2021 02:27
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Unfortunately, the 970 Evo Plus HAS been altered since release - it actually attracted a lot of attention a few weeks back. The 970 evo plus alteration was pretty minor -- it's still TLC, and now has a much larger SLC cache (good). But the TLC writes are a bit slower. IMO not a big deal, for most people it evaluates the same. Generally the thing about the 970 is that it's more expensive that the SN750, for little difference in performance. (The SN750 is unaltered.)
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Sep 25, 2021 18:17
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Just got a Samsung EVO. Big thanks for the recommendation here.
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Sep 28, 2021 14:19
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2TB SN550 for $170 at WD's store, w/ code 25OFF https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-blue-sn550-nvme-ssd#WDS200T2B0C
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Sep 29, 2021 03:19
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repiv posted:For the SN550 it's easy, use CrystalDiskInfo to check the firmware version Well if this is correct, the drive from my last post was an original. Btw, if there was a click when I was installing it into the socket, I missed it.
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Oct 6, 2021 11:28
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Rinkles posted:Btw, if there was a click when I was installing it into the socket, I missed it. There isn't a click to most m.2 sockets. The contacts are springy, the action of kinda folding the drive down makes a firm electrical connection. That's why they need screws.
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Oct 6, 2021 12:44
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Klyith posted:There isn't a click to most m.2 sockets. The contacts are springy, the action of kinda folding the drive down makes a firm electrical connection. That's why they need screws. Thought that might be the case. I mentioned it because the guide I followed said there'd be a click. Is there a good reason why it's designed around a screw holding it in place, unlike most other sockets nowadays? Rinkles fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 12:51
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Rinkles posted:Is there a good reason why it's designed around a screw holding it in place, unlike most other sockets nowadays? I expect that it's one part for cheapness, mostly because m.2 was designed originally for laptops. In a mobile use you have to account for bumps and a certain amount of flex, which can shake stuff out of a less-secure socket over time. Many things in laptops are screwed down. And while you could do a clip system like laptop memory, it would be hard to make one that would be equally secure across 42 through 110mm length sticks. I'm surprised that desktop mobos haven't started using non-screw mechanisms more often, but idk I've never been offended by the screws. I don't lose parts for things. Heck, earlier this year I cleaned out my pc parts & bits box, and finally threw out some completely useless poo poo like SLI bridge cables for GPUs I haven't used in years and never would have SLI'd in the first place.
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Oct 6, 2021 15:03
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It would cost slightly more. The problem isn't in losing them, it's when you drop it in the case trying to get it screwed it. Or it hiding in the manual so you think your mobo didn't come with one.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:08
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Any tests I can do to compare my new NVMe with my SATA SSD? Mostly just for fun. Though if I'm not mistaken, it'll be limited to two pcie lanes (limitation of the motherboard).
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Oct 6, 2021 18:20
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Rinkles posted:Any tests I can do to compare my new NVMe with my SATA SSD? Mostly just for fun. You can run synthetic benchmarks like crystal disk mark or whatever it’s called. Or fio if you are fancy. IOmeter if you’re old school. Pretty much every traffic profile the nvme drive will stomp the sata drive into the dirt even with just 2 lanes of pcie gen3.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:25
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High queue depth sequential writes+reads. Or if you want to just see some stupid, actually meaningless results (since the drive won't be doing anything, while it's still empty), just sequential reads.
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Oct 6, 2021 19:18
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SSD prices are really plummeting in the last 2 weeks, squarely in the Splurge Zone lately. TLC M2 drives with DRAM are hitting the magic $99/1TB line, and quality SATA SSDs are well under that mark. I've splurged on like 10TB worth of MX500s for family computer updates and data hording. Trying to purge spinning rust out of my life unless its in a NAS or in system backup. Thank god.
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Oct 6, 2021 19:23
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I just looked, wow. I'd like to finally move from my 256GB Samsung SM961 to a 1TB disk - am I going to be disappointed with the WD SN550? Talking NVMe here. I don't do anything that would count as intensive, just don't want to buy a dud.
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Oct 6, 2021 20:11
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Does anywhere here use an aftermarket heatsink with their NVME drive? My drive is hitting the mid 70s under load and I started looking at basic heatsinks on newegg. Needless to say for anyone that has looked into this, there are a lot of 'interesting' options... Is it worth it or pointless?
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Oct 6, 2021 20:18
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CerealKilla420 posted:Does anywhere here use an aftermarket heatsink with their NVME drive? Technically, the only chip on an NVMe SSD that would benefit from a heatsink is the controller chip. The NAND is designed to run hot. Some people contend that using a standalone passive sink on an NVMe drive can end up transferring the NAND heat to the controller chip and vice versa. I'd imagine with motherboards that use a big heat *plate* that's mitigated to the point where it doesn't matter as much. This explains it better than I can: https://www.ekwb.com/blog/ssd-cooling/ It effectively boils down to "buy our poo poo we're awesome" but up until that point it explains the issue. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 21:18
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Thanks Ants posted:I just looked, wow. I'd like to finally move from my 256GB Samsung SM961 to a 1TB disk - am I going to be disappointed with the WD SN550? Talking NVMe here. They just switched to QLC, so if you do frequent large (50+GB) writes or other anti-QLC stuff it's not great. And the max speed is so-so, which may (or may not) be important for gaming in like 3-5 years. But if all you want from a drive is to be way bigger and not slower than your SM961, it's fine. CerealKilla420 posted:Does anywhere here use an aftermarket heatsink with their NVME drive? Generally pointless. The controller is an ARM CPU and will do ~90C before it throttles. And nand flash likes to be warm when it's in use / writing. My only question would be what your "under load" actually is. If the load is disk benchmarks, you're fine and can ignore anything further. Sustained sequential read benches generate a ton of heat on the controller and will likely produce far hotter temps than real world loads. OTOH if that's just when using the PC normally or running real software, it's kinda hot. You might want a heatsink / heatspreader in that case. You don't need anything elaborate, the cheapest piece of metal on amazon will suffice.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:43
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Good case airflow is more important than adding a 3rd party heatsink imo. Even with the copper infused label most m.2 drives come with if the ambient case temperature isn’t too insane it will be fine. Also if the case is roasting a heatsink won’t do poo poo anyway.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:46
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Klyith posted:They just switched to QLC, so if you do frequent large (50+GB) writes or other anti-QLC stuff it's not great. And the max speed is so-so, which may (or may not) be important for gaming in like 3-5 years. Thanks, ordered. Not having any issues with the current drive and this is an HP desktop, games won't be going anywhere near it.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:51
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Klyith posted:They just switched to QLC, so if you do frequent large (50+GB) writes or other anti-QLC stuff it's not great. And the max speed is so-so, which may (or may not) be important for gaming in like 3-5 years. By 'under load' I mean downloading a large file or running a game. Pretty much any application that uses a lot of the processors or the GPUs resources gets the SSD temp to at least 72c even if it's not doing a lot of read/write. I'm guessing this is because the m.2 slot I'm using is right under the GPU so it's getting hot air blown on it ostensibly. I'm just gonna order the $8 amazon special metal fin deal - I'll report back if it helps. There are some pretty ridiculous contraptions worth looking into though lmao. There's this one that has this huge heatpipe with a fan on it you can plug into a fan header on the motherboard... Don't feel like anyone would actually need this lol. priznat posted:Good case airflow is more important than adding a 3rd party heatsink imo. Even with the copper infused label most m.2 drives come with if the ambient case temperature isn’t too insane it will be fine. The case isn't roasting per se but I have two case fans on the front of my case that are kind of redundant. I could move them to the back of the case and help out that area a bit. I'm sure that would help too now that you mention it...
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Oct 6, 2021 21:54
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I can't think of a single part 70° temps would damage. If you're not throttling it doesn't matter.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:55
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So is Sony being overly cautious with its heatsink requirements for PS5 drives? Or the console too hot in general or something?
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Oct 6, 2021 21:56
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Presumably the latter. It's in a spot that doesn't look like it gets any airflow and iirc the console runs hot to begin with.
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Oct 6, 2021 22:03
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Rinkles posted:So is Sony being overly cautious with its heatsink requirements for PS5 drives? Or the console too hot in general or something? The PS5 puts the expansion drive in a tiny compartment with zero airflow. I wrote about it before ITT, the drive bay has a metal lid and Sony's instructions say to put back after installing the drive. My supposition is that metal lid for FCC interference regulations, so they can't tell home users to leave it off. But if you did leave it off, the drive would be fine with no extra heatsink because it'd get enough air movement to passively cool. CerealKilla420 posted:By 'under load' I mean downloading a large file or running a game. Pretty much any application that uses a lot of the processors or the GPUs resources gets the SSD temp to at least 72c even if it's not doing a lot of read/write. I'm guessing this is because the m.2 slot I'm using is right under the GPU so it's getting hot air blown on it ostensibly. Yeah this is probably heat from the GPU & CPU hot zone and not the drive itself then. A super-cheap spreader will help, or improving case airflow, or just ignoring it. CerealKilla420 posted:There are some pretty ridiculous contraptions worth looking into though lmao. There's this one that has this huge heatpipe with a fan on it you can plug into a fan header on the motherboard... Don't feel like anyone would actually need this lol. PC review websites observe that drives can throttle under very high loads (primarily unrealistic artificial benchmarks). Ricer PC gamerz see that and say "I need a heatsink for my SSD!!!" The PC gaming ricer hardware industry responds quick to that sort of thing. A new thing to put RGB LEDs on and sell for 300% markup? Why certainly sir!
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Oct 6, 2021 22:16
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Klyith posted:PC review websites observe that drives can throttle under very high loads (primarily unrealistic artificial benchmarks). Ricer PC gamerz see that and say "I need a heatsink for my SSD!!!" The PC gaming ricer hardware industry responds quick to that sort of thing. A new thing to put RGB LEDs on and sell for 300% markup? Why certainly sir! Wait so you’re telling me this isn’t the one I should get??? 
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Oct 7, 2021 02:27
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Trying out a 22110 enterprise drive. drat near burned my finger touching the controller. Composite temperature of 96F my rear end. Also why is there no nvme-cli equivalent in windows drat it Do those heat sinks with the double sided tape work if the drive is in an m.2 to pcie adapter? Or does gravity end up pulling it off?
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Oct 7, 2021 03:18
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