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I currently have a modest hi-fi setup in my office with a Yamaha RS-202 driving a pair of Elac B4s and/or Polk RTi6s. I have a budget Sony turntable but my laptop is the primary music source. I usually use Spotify, but I recently signed up for Qobuz and have a locally stored library including flac and dsd files. I'm leaning towards buying an external DAC in the sub $200 range. I'm tempted by the Loxjie D30; the headphone amp is a nice feature, as is MQA compatibility. But the version I'm able to find on Amazon is above $250 and I recognize the benefits of MQA are...contested. So more likely I'm looking at either the Schiit Modi 3+ or the Topping E30d. The Modi is the most affordable and Schiit seems to be an established brand with a good reputation. I like the Topping's design and features more, but maybe not enough to justify the price difference. Just curious if anyone has a clear preference or alternative recommendation. I know that investing in better speakers or amplifier would make a more noticeable difference but I'm pretty happy with my setup as is and a DAC is easier to sneak in the house without my girlfriend noticing.
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Oct 5, 2021 07:24
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JHomer722 posted:I currently have a modest hi-fi setup in my office with a Yamaha RS-202 driving a pair of Elac B4s and/or Polk RTi6s. I have a budget Sony turntable but my laptop is the primary music source. I usually use Spotify, but I recently signed up for Qobuz and have a locally stored library including flac and dsd files. in general better speakers will make a much bigger difference than a better dac, nevertheless.. what is your setup missing that you wish to fix?
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Oct 5, 2021 08:00
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JHomer722 posted:I currently have a modest hi-fi setup in my office with a Yamaha RS-202 driving a pair of Elac B4s and/or Polk RTi6s. I have a budget Sony turntable but my laptop is the primary music source. I usually use Spotify, but I recently signed up for Qobuz and have a locally stored library including flac and dsd files. I can't possibly imagine that you would hear the difference between a $50 DAC and a $200 DAC on those speakers.
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Oct 5, 2021 13:10
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I really like my first gen iFi Zen DAC , doubles as a headphone amp too. Highly recommend it
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Oct 5, 2021 13:12
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I like the Monoprice Monolith Liquid Spark I use in my office, but I'm pretty sure any of the $100ish DACs will make you very happy. I chose based on case design and LED color that matched some other stuff, for whatever that's worth. Upgrading from a laptop's noisy onboard sound should be a noticeable upgrade, but beyond that the differences are a lot more subtle.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:22
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Is noisy onboard sound even an issue anymore? I haven't heard interference on a laptop in probably 15 years
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Oct 5, 2021 16:31
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If it’s a USB source, you got Apple Dongle holding down the $9 end, and Behringer at $30 if you want something a bit more physically robust.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:39
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Thanks for the feedback! I’ve been using Bluetooth to transmit the audio, and the initial thinking for the DAC was to support hi-res audio. But generally I’m an entry level hobbyist and am just curious how different system components interact and affect the sound.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:11
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JHomer722 posted:Thanks for the feedback! I’ve been using Bluetooth to transmit the audio, and the initial thinking for the DAC was to support hi-res audio. But generally I’m an entry level hobbyist and am just curious how different system components interact and affect the sound. P much any DAC will let you output hi-res audio of the Qobuz/Tidal/FLAC variety to 2-ch stereo I think it’s worth getting one, but it’s not worth shelling out more than like $100 unless you have imminent plans to upgrade your receiver (and even then, definitely no more than like $250) Get the one from a reputable maker that has the price/looks/features/inputs/outputs you want.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:27
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I've got a topping d10s I'll sell you for $50 plus shipping if you want. I used it for a couple weeks but then I bought an amp with a comparable built in DAC so the topping sits in my cupboard.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:48
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JHomer722 posted:Thanks for the feedback! I’ve been using Bluetooth to transmit the audio, and the initial thinking for the DAC was to support hi-res audio. But generally I’m an entry level hobbyist and am just curious how different system components interact and affect the sound. Bluetooth is not considered a hi-fi standard, aptx HD being the only BT codec that sorta comes close and it's still a lossy format(4:1 compression). Totally fine for Spotify and party jams and the like, but once you're looking at CD qualit, TIDAL/Qobuz FLAC streaming, etc. The Bluetooth can't handle the lossless data stream. Better to use a USB from the laptop to a DAC, then into your amplifier. You'll get a noticeable bump up in clarity, presence/sound stage, balance, and maybe a quieter noise floor, from good audio gear, and depending on how the DAC is tuned it may be neutral sounding, or be bumped up a little in the bass/treble/mids according to the manufacturer's desired sound signature(a V-curve, ie. Bass and trebles accentuated is pretty common, and I believe flat with a bump in the upper midrange is pretty common in "audiophile" gear) I'm of the opinion that your front end (phono stage, DAC, CD player, etc.) Should be tuned to be neutral, transparent, and not colour the sound all that much, and leave it up to the Amp to get the sound signature you find pleasing. Any $75-$200 DAC that's been posted since you asked your question should do the job really nicely, as you'll be getting a nice improvement from going from lossy Bluetooth to lossless over USB, and getting a bump up from getting a nice DAC over whatever was processing the Bluetooth stream. E: That Topping D10s would be a great choice, for instance ^ Mederlock fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 17:59
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DACs are also a fantastic piece of gear to get used from audiophile snake oil addicts as their constant need to "upgrade" and complete disconnect from reality about the value of money means they'll sell them second hand fairly cheap.
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Oct 5, 2021 21:13
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DoesNotCompute posted:DACs are also a fantastic piece of gear to get used from audiophile snake oil addicts as their constant need to "upgrade" and complete disconnect from reality about the value of money means they'll sell them second hand fairly cheap. That's a little harsh, but in all honesty most people won't be able to hear the difference between any decent $100+ DACs produced within the last 20 years. The noise floor on your amp is going to be the limiting factor well before the noise floor on your DAC, and DAC people who talk about things like ultra high bitrates or impulse response as if they were something you could actually hear have drunk the kool-aid 100%.
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Oct 5, 2021 21:46
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If you must have balanced, something like a $180 Schiit Modius is like the bleeding edge of what you should get in a consumer DAC.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:20
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DoesNotCompute posted:DACs are also a fantastic piece of gear to get used from audiophile snake oil addicts as their constant need to "upgrade" and complete disconnect from reality about the value of money means they'll sell them second hand fairly cheap. Yeah I got my iFi Zen DAC for half what it's MSRP was up here in Canuckistan. Check out USaudiomart.com or It's regionally associated sister websites, that's where most of the audiophiles dump their gear, as well as The Usual suspects like eBay and craigslist/local classified sites.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:42
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strtj posted:That's a little harsh, but in all honesty most people won't be able to hear the difference between any decent $100+ DACs produced within the last 20 years. The noise floor on your amp is going to be the limiting factor well before the noise floor on your DAC, and DAC people who talk about things like ultra high bitrates or impulse response as if they were something you could actually hear have drunk the kool-aid 100%. True, but keep in mind there have been a number of lovely DACs produced. The modern era (last 5ish years) are where the price/performance has really gotten awesome.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:43
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RIP Paul Walker posted:True, but keep in mind there have been a number of lovely DACs produced. The modern era (last 5ish years) are where the price/performance has really gotten awesome. No timeline confirmation whatsoever. There have been people out there looking to make a quick buck for as long as there have been DAC chips with better SNR than amps.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:06
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Spent some more time cleaning out my aunt's place. Found this sweet cassette deck:  The Sansui looks pretty clean:  The Kenwood Tuner and Integrated are an attractive pair. I'd keep these if I had the space:   I will NOT be using my grandmother's original 78 player...  The ESS speakers need some serious love:  But the real highlight is this here -- my aunt's Juliette 300 tape recorder. Gonna definitely clean this one and get it up and running:  I found some reels for it. Mostly Monkees radio broadcasts, with some Beatles broadcasts mixed in. Very excited to get it working.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:59
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that sansui is sick as hell
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Oct 6, 2021 06:02
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wanna hear those reels that cassette deck is not as nice as you think it is. the rest of it is 100% as nice as you think it is.
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Oct 6, 2021 08:24
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After a nearly 5 year hunt, I finally got a reasonably priced pair of Beolab 8000s yesterday, with a bonus Beosound 2300 CD player. Haven't had much time to test them out today, but I will hook up my streaming solution consisting of a Chromecast Audio connected via optical to a Sony MDS-JB920 later today and let all the neighbors know that I have new speakers.
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Oct 6, 2021 14:32
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strtj posted:wanna hear those reels I know it’s not great from a technical standpoint. But it has two meters and mechanical switches. It’s fun to play with.
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Oct 6, 2021 15:20
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TheMadMilkman posted:I know it’s not great from a technical standpoint. But it has two meters and mechanical switches. It’s fun to play with. I have a weird affinity towards BIC because i have one of their automatic turntables from the 70s that i love, so i said “oh nice” when i saw the logo. It’s a very nice looking device even if it’s not technically great!
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Oct 6, 2021 16:07
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I feel like reel-to-reel is similar to vinyl in that part of the enjoyment is the whole experience and inconvenience. There's something to be said about how deliberate you have to be about listening to an album when there's a whole process to setting it up. It's like renting a video at blockbuster instead of going on netflix, it's objectively lower quality and less efficient but I can tell you I watched a lot more interesting movies and enjoyed them more when I rented tapes.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:14
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I have a bit of a quandry and I'm curious about this thread's suggestions. I have an optical out from my computer's motherboard feeding my MOTU Traveler, which for reasons that aren't worth getting into is much easier than feeding audio directly to the Traveler from the computer. The Traveler then feeds a digital out (optical or coax, whichever strikes me on any given day) to my receiver. The problem is that the clocks on the motherboard and the MOTU are ever so slightly off. If I'm using the MOTU as the clock source I get a little click every now and then. If I use the optical input as the clock source on the MOTU I don't have this problem, but then I'm locked to the clock rate that's coming off of the computer, which is often inconvenient. What are my options here? Is there such a thing as a digtal mixer/re-clocker that I could feed both the computer and the MOTU into, and that wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg? I'm fully willing to buy older used gear, I don't need to have the latest and greatest, it just needs to work. If it's important I pretty much never use any sampling rate over 96kHz.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:34
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DoesNotCompute posted:I feel like reel-to-reel is similar to vinyl in that part of the enjoyment is the whole experience and inconvenience. There's something to be said about how deliberate you have to be about listening to an album when there's a whole process to setting it up. It's like renting a video at blockbuster instead of going on netflix, it's objectively lower quality and less efficient but I can tell you I watched a lot more interesting movies and enjoyed them more when I rented tapes. Reel-to-reel generally is as high quality audio as you can get. I would say vinyl is akin to projecting a film print instead of watching something on streaming. Reel-to-reel would be like getting a 70mm print of something to project. Average people aren't going to want to go through the expense or cost of trying to put together something to do either but the experience is much better than nearly any other option.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:26
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My dad used to have a reel-to-reel so he didn't have to get up to switch records. Wouldn't most people's source for the music on the tape have been a record, anyway? I know a lot of people would buy a new record, record it onto tape and then put the record away, listen to the tape and you'll never get any pops or skips.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:33
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Djarum posted:Reel-to-reel generally is as high quality audio as you can get. I would say vinyl is akin to projecting a film print instead of watching something on streaming. Reel-to-reel would be like getting a 70mm print of something to project. Average people aren't going to want to go through the expense or cost of trying to put together something to do either but the experience is much better than nearly any other option. That's just straight up not true. 30ips 2" tape masters? Of course, yes, that's super high quality. 3 3/4ips home recordings? Anywhere from "acceptable" to "ugh" depending on the source, tape, etc. Obviously there's a whole spectrum in between there. Or to use your analogy, the best studio reel to reels are like 70mm prints and the average home use reels are like super 8, or maybe 16mm if you're lucky.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:34
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The price of reel to reels has jumped way up lately; I was just talking with a professional musician about this a few days ago. He's borrowing my TEAC A-2340 to use as part of a John Cage tribute concert later this month. I bet the perception that Djarum espouses, which seems to be more and more common these days, has contributed to that cost increase. The 2340 is great, and it was among the higher quality home R2Rs you could get in the mid '70s, but the best possible recording I could make on that is nowhere near the quality I could get out of a modern $100 4 channel digital home recorder. I also own some pre-recorded tapes from the '60s and '70s, and a fair number of those are 7 1/2ips. The frequency response generally drops off pretty sharply above 15 kHz, well below what a well recorded record from the same time period would give you. Now, there is no worry about clicks and pops, and there is nowhere near the harmonic distortion on your average record, but you do have to worry about tape hiss even on the highest quality tape. Virtually nothing out there came with Dolby (or dbx) of any nature, and even if you had an outboard Dolby box you'd still be dealing with a certain amount of dynamic range compression.
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Oct 6, 2021 22:00
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strtj posted:That's just straight up not true. 30ips 2" tape masters? Of course, yes, that's super high quality. 3 3/4ips home recordings? Anywhere from "acceptable" to "ugh" depending on the source, tape, etc. Obviously there's a whole spectrum in between there. Or to use your analogy, the best studio reel to reels are like 70mm prints and the average home use reels are like super 8, or maybe 16mm if you're lucky. Most audiophiles are on the 7-1/2 or 15 IPS reel to reel tapes, not the 3-3/4 IPS ones.
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Oct 6, 2021 23:44
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Mederlock posted:Most audiophiles are on the 7-1/2 or 15 IPS reel to reel tapes, not the 3-3/4 IPS ones. Yeah, this isn't the 60s or early 70s. One the Compact Cassette came out that spelled the end of crappy 3-3/4 IPS for home recordings and whatnot. I know plenty of bands that actually take 7-1/2 IPS systems on the road to record shows still. Which I think there is a valid argument about how digital is cheaper and easier but some prefer analog sources to each their own.
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Oct 7, 2021 17:51
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Djarum posted:Yeah, this isn't the 60s or early 70s. One the Compact Cassette came out that spelled the end of crappy 3-3/4 IPS for home recordings and whatnot. I know plenty of bands that actually take 7-1/2 IPS systems on the road to record shows still. Which I think there is a valid argument about how digital is cheaper and easier but some prefer analog sources to each their own. I find that recording to cassette has a nice “gluing” effect to music, like a bus compressor.
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Oct 7, 2021 20:09
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Ok Comboomer posted:I find that recording to cassette has a nice “gluing” effect to music, like a bus compressor. Maybe this would be a good time to ask this then. Would my new antique TEAC I posted a page or two back have any accidentally redeeming features for recording applications, like applying Dolby in real time as an audio sweetener or something? I've heard certain old tape decks have become popular for that lately. 
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Oct 7, 2021 21:06
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petit choux posted:Maybe this would be a good time to ask this then. Would my new antique TEAC I posted a page or two back have any accidentally redeeming features for recording applications, like applying Dolby in real time as an audio sweetener or something? I've heard certain old tape decks have become popular for that lately. at the very minimum I like the “finality” of tape. For people who suffer from endless second-guessing and tinkering like myself, there’s something somewhat relaxing about committing a jam session to tape and knowing that it’s final and there’s no going back.
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Oct 7, 2021 21:12
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Mederlock posted:noticeable bump up in clarity, presence/sound stage, balance lmao
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Oct 12, 2021 16:11
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tell us about what it does to the speed, Mederlock 
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Oct 12, 2021 16:24
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I think it sounds better when I play FLAC etc through my DAC than streaming Bluetooth but I'm not sure how I'd describe the difference. e: don't say psychosomatic
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Oct 12, 2021 16:36
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Imo audio quality was perfected in 2002 when i downloaded The Legend of Zelda by System of a Down.mp3 and anyone disagreeing is a mentally ill audiophile.
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Oct 12, 2021 16:41
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large hands posted:I think it sounds better when I play FLAC etc through my DAC than streaming Bluetooth but I'm not sure how I'd describe the difference. Psycho. Somatic Addict, Insane.
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Oct 12, 2021 16:42
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Breath the sound stage
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Oct 12, 2021 16:44
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