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Cthulu Carl posted:Our company just sent out an email mandating vaccinations. Some evidence is pointing to reinfections being worse: https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1445187429250572291
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Oct 6, 2021 18:09
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Some evidence is pointing to reinfections being worse: Yeah, beyond his chud tendencies, this dude is very much one of those "I'm the smartest person in the room and I'm making sure everyone knows" types, so we're all certain he didn't get vaxxed because "I'm immune now!" Lol, good luck with that, you obese fucker.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:18
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QuarkJets posted:I need you to tell me whether that is a real thing because Britishisms are so bizarre and numerous that I honestly can't tell the difference between a joke and a funny sounding name from antiquity. "Sceptred Isle" is from Shakespeare, and the speech it's from[1] and turns up every once in a while from people who have gotten a bit overheated as a description of England/Britain/the UK. Septic Isle really isn't a big jump from there and frankly slightly less cringeworthy than the original which basically means "Our country is great because our king has a magic stick!". Now confusingly it would also make a pretty good description when America finally finishes the job and annexes us because "Septic" is also cockney for "American" - Septic = Septic Tank = Yank, but you can feel free to work that in to a description of Florida or wherever else is loving up their covid response in the US. [1] Richard II - full version is: This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall, Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands, This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England, This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings, Fear’d by their breed and famous by their birth, Renowned for their deeds as far from home, For Christian service and true chivalry, As is the sepulchre in stubborn Jewry, Of the world’s ransom, blessed Mary’s Son, This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land, Dear for her reputation through the world, Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it, Like to a tenement or pelting farm: England, bound in with the triumphant sea Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame, With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds: That England, that was wont to conquer others, Hath made a shameful conquest of itself. Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life, How happy then were my ensuing death! and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall, Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands, This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England, This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings, Fear’d by their breed and famous by their birth, Renowned for their deeds as far from home, For Christian service and true chivalry, As is the sepulchre in stubborn Jewry, Of the world’s ransom, blessed Mary’s Son, This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land, Dear for her reputation through the world, Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it, Like to a tenement or pelting farm: England, bound in with the triumphant sea Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame, With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds: That England, that was wont to conquer others, Hath made a shameful conquest of itself. Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life, How happy then were my ensuing death! Even *he* saw that we could have avoided all this poo poo
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Oct 6, 2021 18:35
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I thought Sceptered Isle was just referring to the lollipop ladies/men/other
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Oct 6, 2021 18:41
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Some evidence is pointing to reinfections being worse:
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Oct 6, 2021 19:08
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only chud "friend" still posting nonstop about commie FB censorship and fact-checking, not being able to post videos full of debunked nonsense, etc i commented on one of his posts if he has that money he owes me, which he then deleted. i have been censored for speaking the truth! also, covid was probably made in a lab, which is yet another reason why we shouldn't trust the vaccine?? i don't know. this guy's writing his own herman cain memorial in real time and i'm practically the only one pushing back on it at this point cuz everyone i assume is tired of his poo poo (same)
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Oct 6, 2021 20:21
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goddamnedtwisto posted:"Sceptred Isle" is from Shakespeare, and the speech it's from[1] and turns up every once in a while from people who have gotten a bit overheated as a description of England/Britain/the UK. Septic Isle really isn't a big jump from there and frankly slightly less cringeworthy than the original which basically means "Our country is great When I saw Septic Isle my brain went to Septic System so I wasn't sure if it was a complaint made up because of the lovely state of things or if it may be a real name with etymology, which it sounds like it is! So thank you that's pretty interesting
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Oct 6, 2021 20:40
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Scarodactyl posted:Whatever his (apparently real and relevant) qualifications this guy writes like a crank. The use of dumb catchphrases and selectively quoting whatever supports his narrative is just like the antivaxx shills I see in comments on news and blog sites. I didn't get that kind of reading at all, there's no wild speculation, random punctuation, or statements in all caps. And their narrative seems to be opposed to what the cranks are pushing (herd immunity!!!)
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Oct 6, 2021 20:46
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QuarkJets posted:I didn't get that kind of reading at all, there's no wild speculation, random punctuation, or statements in all caps. And their narrative seems to be opposed to what the cranks are pushing (herd immunity!!!) The UK has been tracking reinfections as they occur, which is something the CDC isn't doing at all, including a report yet again yesterday that continues to find reinfection rates low (albeit increasing either from variants or waning immunity) but still that a more severe reinfection is very rare. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ovid19/june2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...uk/6october2021 While this study that Twitter catchphrase T-cell man cites of people in Southern California recorded as reinfected through January 31, 2021 contains only mention of vaccines is that people should take protective measures and get vaccinated... doesn't even seem possible for more than a handful of hospital workers at the last possible date in this study to have been fully-vaccinated, which actually would have been crazy, you would have heard on the news if some of the very first healthcare workers vaccinated were immediately getting reinfected, don't you think? Because it literally was international news the first few times that happened. https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(21)00422-5/fulltext Doesn't feel that pertinent at this point, but if you want to hold it up because it's the opposite of what people you don't like say, okay.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:05
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Pinecone Sample posted:The UK has been tracking reinfections as they occur, which is something the CDC isn't doing at all, including a report yet again yesterday that continues to find reinfection rates low (albeit increasing either from variants or waning immunity) but still that a more severe reinfection is very rare. Wow that's quite the hot take when all I posted was "Crank? But he doesn't say that Fauci is a Satanist a single time"
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Oct 6, 2021 21:25
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QuarkJets posted:I didn't get that kind of reading at all, there's no wild speculation, random punctuation, or statements in all caps. And their narrative seems to be opposed to what the cranks are pushing (herd immunity!!!) That and it's tough to call it cherry-picking when this is pretty much all the data there is. There are very few analyses that look at severity of reinfection, and this is the only one I'm aware of that looks at suspected reinfection in a general population (restricting to sequence-confirmed reinfection introduces significant selection bias). That said, I don't think the quoted comparison of hospitalization rates in the paper is very useful or says what he (and the authors) are implying. The selected quote is comparing the rate of hospitalization among all initial infections to the rate of hospitalization among reinfections, which were a small proportion of those initial infections. The problem is that this doesn't compare the hospitalization rates on first and second infection for people who were reinfected, because it's including a lot of people who never had a second infection. Since immunocompromised status and hospitalization at initial infection were both independently associated with increased likelihood of reinfection, the people who were reinfected also tended to already be at higher risk for hospitalization. The authors do offer a direct comparison later in the text, but it's kind of buried and requires some tweaking to compare severity of reinfections. They say: quote:Hospitalization at suspected reinfection was also more common among those hospitalized at initial infection (7/29, 24.1% versus 29/257, 10.1%, p 0.024). [the 257 is a typo and should be 286 as indicated in Table 1] So that means that of the 315 people likely reinfections 7 (2.2%) were hospitalized during both infections, 257 (81.6%) were not hospitalized either time, 22 (7.0%) were hospitalized for the first infection but not the second, and 29 (9.2%) were not hospitalized for first infection but hospitalized for the second. That suggests that hospitalization is fairly highly correlated between first and second infections and the folks who were hospitalized the second time around but the not first (increased severity) roughly balanced those were hospitalized the first time but not the second (decreased severity). Hospitalization is a very coarse measure of severity, though, so it's to bad there's not more clinical information available. The numbers in the study seem to suggest that hospitalization rates are roughly equivalent on reinfection, which still isn't great! It's tough to fault the twitter dude for his misinterpretation, since the paper's discussion uses measures that don't directly address the implications the authors seem to be making, which is a bit disappointing given the phD biostatisticians and epidemiologists in the author line. E: Since this study is not using active surveillance, catching asymptomatic reinfections would likely push reinfection severity down a bit more. Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 21:28
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Pinecone Sample posted:The UK has been tracking reinfections as they occur, which is something the CDC isn't doing at all, including a report yet again yesterday that continues to find reinfection rates low (albeit increasing either from variants or waning immunity) but still that a more severe reinfection is very rare. I stand corrected, I didn't realize that this study had released severity (or at least symptom) data for reinfections! I suspect the major difference between the UK study and the Kaiser study is that the UK's active surveillance is catching asymptomatic cases that would not have sought testing. While they found that reinfections were "rare", the vaccine effectiveness analysis of the same data (still in preprint) found that prior infection was less protective against infection than double vax Pfizer, averaging 72% effectiveness against reinfection w/Delta over the follow-up period (table 1). That efficacy matches up pretty well with the 5 or so other studies of effectiveness of prior infection against future infection. Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 21:44
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Pinecone Sample posted:While this study that Twitter catchphrase T-cell man cites of people in Southern California recorded as reinfected through January 31, 2021 contains only mention of vaccines is that people should take protective measures and get vaccinated... doesn't even seem possible for more than a handful of hospital workers at the last possible date in this study to have been fully-vaccinated, which actually would have been crazy, you would have heard on the news if some of the very first healthcare workers vaccinated were immediately getting reinfected, don't you think? Because it literally was international news the first few times that happened. "Making the news" is not really a great yardstick for likelihood of reinfection. For a long time both the news and scientific community were hesitant to report reinfections unless they confirmed with pcr sequencing for both infections, which was extremely unlikely to be available. Reinfection of hcws remains rare in part because by the time they were several months out from their initial infection hospitals and clinics had instituted dramatically better PPE and protection protocols that meant that hcws infections dropped across the board.
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Oct 6, 2021 21:55
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Stickman posted:"Making the news" is not really a great yardstick for likelihood of reinfection. For a long time both the news and scientific community were hesitant to report reinfections unless they confirmed with pcr sequencing for both infections, which was extremely unlikely to be available. Reinfection of hcws remains rare in part because by the time they were several months out from their initial infection hospitals and clinics had instituted dramatically better PPE and protection protocols that meant that hcws infections dropped across the board. I'm not putting a certain import on those news stories, I'm saying that is the statistical significance to me today out of 75,000 people, with literally maybe a dozen, and that we all knew approximately how frequently it was happening because in a possible subset running through 1/31/2021 it had notoriety. California had fully vaccinated 1.4% of the population as of that date https://twitter.com/dougludlow/status/1356266272145633281 and just messing with eligibility for those 65+/essential https://www.kqed.org/coronavirusliveupdates So further any vaccinated reinfections in this study would have been outliers from the general population because they probably worked in healthcare. Sure, it is relevant to chuds who say "I got it, I can't get it again" which is also all thrown off by variants potentially driving up the frequency of reinfections. But not really of interest to me here now with the prospect of delta infections and with the general viral evolutionary principle that variants typically trend towards less fatal but where we don't know that to be true with all possibilities of SARS-CoV-2. What I'm saying is it was a different world in many regards. Your second post was an interesting question I keep returning to when I see large data sets here and abroad, though, it's a selection bias struggle because places like the UK and Israel and Singapore give us much more complete data, and our same-brand vaccines should work the same, etc. but it's also inherently apples-to-orange-y hard to verify whether we have the same trends going on.
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Oct 6, 2021 22:29
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Oct 6, 2021 22:30
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I picked up this test about a month ago just because I wanted to have one on me. Mine could have been affected. https://twitter.com/fox6now/status/1445852656799338503
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Oct 6, 2021 22:31
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One breakdown I'm looking forward to seeing, and Israel probably working on it What are the reinfections like as confirmed 2020 case - vaccinated - breakthrough vaccinated - breakthrough - breakthrough etc. Are people with one breakthrough more likely to get a second breakthrough because something about their doses just didn't take (and then should that be broken down by age groups)? Or how do natural antibodies hold up after breakthrough cases? When I've looked for this a few times I've only found "vaccinated people are half as likely to get reinfections as unvaccinated w/ natural immunity" which isn't really what I'm asking. Might need more time to find numbers to study, right now the sample size is just Bolsonaro
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Oct 6, 2021 22:38
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sure but wars kill young people with their whole lives ahead of them. 99.64375457% of COVID deaths were going to die in the next 3 weeks anyway, probably
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Oct 6, 2021 22:41
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Pinecone Sample posted:I'm not putting a certain import on those news stories, I'm saying that is the statistical significance to me today out of 75,000 people, with literally maybe a dozen, and that we all knew approximately how frequently it was happening because in a possible subset running through 1/31/2021 it had notoriety. I'm not really quite sure what you're trying to say here. That's a good point that it's possible some small portion of the the study participants may have gotten vaccinated prior to January 31st and the paper should acknowledge the possibility or explain how they adjusted for vaccination (ie censoring the follow-up period). The number of participants vaxxed is likely very small and probably skews towards eldery/high-risk folks, so if anything it should skew the reinfections slightly younger and less high-risk (and probably less severe). It's extremely unlikely that any of the reinfections were vaxxed, but if so it would have the same bias towards making reinfection seem less severe. Pinecone Sample posted:Sure, it is relevant to chuds who say "I got it, I can't get it again" which is also all thrown off by variants potentially driving up the frequency of reinfections. But not really of interest to me here now with the prospect of delta infections and with the general viral evolutionary principle that variants typically trend towards less fatal but where we don't know that to be true with all possibilities of SARS-CoV-2. What I'm saying is it was a different world in many regards. The UK study has a more complete sample in the sense that it's more likely to cover asymptomatic infections, but it's also a much smaller sample of size of reinfections, especially severe ones. There's no analysis of hospitalizations in either their reinfection or VE studies because they didn't have enough to get good estimates. Since vaccination or prior infection will have different protective abilities based on current disease progression, it's possible for prior infection to reduce severity on average by increasing the undetected asymptomatic/very mild case rate while also having a much less noticeable affect on severity of detected cases. Both are still important, we just need to be careful about how we interpret them (and more data, ideally). Stickman fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 23:02
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I feel like I have a breakthrough case but it doesn't seem terrible (but I'm not sure what else it could be). I woke up this morning and my body temp is slightly higher than normal. It reminds me of when I got the shot (Moderna) but on a much less worse scale. I've been kinda warm and tired all day, but my head and everything is fine. Woke up stuffy but I took an allergy pill and that cleared up Is it possible that I could have an extremely mild case?
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Oct 6, 2021 23:20
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Seth Pecksniff posted:Is it possible that I could have an extremely mild case? Of course that's possible. Or you could have something else. Or you could have nothing.
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Oct 6, 2021 23:27
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Failed Imagineer posted:Of course that's possible.  All things are possible through God
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Oct 6, 2021 23:50
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Seth Pecksniff posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9JgZ45ENl4
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Oct 6, 2021 23:54
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You could always take a test? Never hurts to know.
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Oct 7, 2021 00:08
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wilderthanmild posted:You could always take a test? Never hurts to know. Yeah I'm gonna soon, I was just curious as to what other people experienced for breakthrough cases to see if I'm like an outlier
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Oct 7, 2021 00:20
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All the americans protesting for Australia (huge lol) can breathe a little easier as NSW begins to let 'er rip.
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Oct 7, 2021 00:26
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Seth Pecksniff posted:I feel like I have a breakthrough case but it doesn't seem terrible (but I'm not sure what else it could be). I caught a breakthrough case two weeks ago that had those exact symptoms (I caught it from my 6 year old who had tested positive two days prior- almost certainly she caught it from school). I’d recommend getting tested, just so you can know for sure! (I treated my symptoms with Aleve and Sudafed, and it was mostly an annoying cold for about a week. My daughter (thankfully) got over it within a day and a half).
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Oct 7, 2021 00:29
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Seth Pecksniff posted:Yeah I'm gonna soon, I was just curious as to what other people experienced for breakthrough cases to see if I'm like an outlier Well you can get an at-home test to check it real quick but I wouldn't rely on it. Hence the post I just made. But it could give you a heads up to get a real test. They're pretty expensive though. I think I spent maybe $30+ dollars on one. Which has been recalled.
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Oct 7, 2021 00:55
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Aware posted:All the americans protesting for Australia (huge lol) can breathe a little easier as NSW begins to let 'er rip. First they protest for your rights Then they invade your country to liberate you and give you Freedom Then they drone strike your house/car/pet
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Oct 7, 2021 01:40
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Seth Pecksniff posted:I feel like I have a breakthrough case but it doesn't seem terrible (but I'm not sure what else it could be). I got swabbed at the hospital drive-thru test Tuesday and they estimated 48 hours for results, so I'm hoping they come in tomorrow and trying to WFH in the meanwhile. Mostly had fatigue and some headache starting around Friday, which I thought was just work burnout, but I heard Monday someone on site had covid and decided to get screened since I also have dental work next week. Pretty sure I have at least something since what I thought was abnormal heartburn during the weekend is starting to feel like some combo of mild lung congestion and deep sore throat, with some periodic fogginess and headache. WFH was fine yesterday, but I spent all but about an hour today in bed just because tired. Not sure I should go in tomorrow even if it comes back negative now. I found out more about the timeline with the covid positive person since then and it seems unlikely they infected me, so it might just be a normal-rear end normal-cold.
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Oct 7, 2021 01:56
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Nam Taf posted:First they protest for your rights Australia was a dry run for Florida. Will we call it Florida2, or Florida 0.1.0? Austra-bama maybe?
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Oct 7, 2021 02:17
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Auskansas. Good luck pronouncing that, rest of the world!
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Oct 7, 2021 02:20
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yook posted:My sister's a nurse, so I was talking to her about whether I should go in or not while I wait for results since I suspect I have something mild too. She basically said the vaccine neuters the symptoms so much it's not uncommon for people to show up with barely as much as a scratchy throat thinking they're ok only to bail mid-shift because their surveillance test came back positive. First few days I thought it was just the flu shot making me feel like poo poo, but there were a bunch of random things that I only now assign to it. Like bending over to pick something up made me dizzy, or my stomach felt torn up from one beer. I started taking my temperature and checking my sense of smell and I was fine. I really can't be sure what day counts, because maybe I just slept like poo poo one of those days, or maybe I'm forgetting that a few days before it sucked, also. Then it seemed like allergies around the fourth day and that night was the first time it was even slightly elevated, like 99.1 F. Fifth day I was sneezing while out running, only when I got home did I feel totally depleted of energy, I thought it might be COVID. It was 101 F before Tylenol and cold shower, slept for most of 24 hours. After I woke up, I had a hangover plus a cough, below 99 F without Tylenol. I was like, gently caress this poo poo, I think I just beat COVID. Everyone said it was allergies, my buddy insisted on coming over to pick up something I'd borrowed and thought I was rude for leaving it outside. I went for a test as soon as I could get one. Just a slight cough after that. The PCR results were taking so long I went for a rapid test a few days after. The rapid test nurse told me she could tell I didn't have it, and I was wasting a test. Rapid test was negative. PCR test came in positive less than 24 hours before I was supposed to fly. Felt great by now but still had to cancel per CDC's latest, which is really not that easy to find. It's been a few weeks, and I still feel like my throat is burnt, as though I've been vomiting, and talking is really exhausting, yet I can run up flights of stairs like I'm 100%. Pinecone Sample fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 03:02
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Now that it's fall we're getting to "I'm not sick its just my sinuses" season. "I'm not sick, just a bunch of, uh, *SNORT* sap or pollen or whatever from *SNEEZE* the trees and all this rain. My immune system is just *spits phlegm into garbage* acting up like it usually does."
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Oct 7, 2021 03:45
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Having an outpatient procedure done tomorrow, so the surgery center had me get my brain scraped on Tuesday. Didn't hear back from them at all today so guess I'm good?
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Oct 7, 2021 03:48
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Chief McHeath posted:Now that it's fall we're getting to "I'm not sick its just my sinuses" season. I have been like that for 18 months I don’t know wtf
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Oct 7, 2021 03:49
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Zil posted:Having an outpatient procedure done tomorrow, so the surgery center had me get my brain scraped on Tuesday. Didn't hear back from them at all today so guess I'm good? I mean you're posting on SA so
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Oct 7, 2021 04:15
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nexous posted:I have been like that for 18 months I don’t know wtf Same and I was very glad to learn sinus problems and runny noses aren’t a symptom of covid. Or at least not most variants.
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Oct 7, 2021 04:24
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Ccs posted:Same and I was very glad to learn sinus problems and runny noses aren’t a symptom of covid. Or at least not most variants. You haven’t heard? quote:Among vaccinated adults, “the symptoms we are seeing now are much more commonly identified with the common cold,” Dr. Chan said. “We are still seeing people presenting with a cough, but we are also seeing a higher prevalence of things like runny nose and sneezing.” Headaches and sore throat are other top complaints, he added. Fever and loss of taste and smell are being reported to a lesser degree. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/well/live/delta-variant-symptoms.html More specifically, “runny nose” rank at number two for symptoms of breakthrough cases, after headaches and ahead of sneezing, sore throat, and loss of smell. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 04:36
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Seth Pecksniff posted:I mean you're posting on SA so You raise an excellent point.
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Oct 7, 2021 05:41
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