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so how about that Fantasia default huh the PRC seems to be in a relatively historically unprecedented situation of 1) having a lot of problematic dollar-denominated debt, but 2) it's not a foreign exchange crisis, and 3) it's not foreign debt either but overwhelmingly domestic holders of dollar-denominated debt. So whatever Blinken says, the prospect of selective default on foreign bondholders is not really on the table either
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Oct 7, 2021 06:34
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ronya posted:so how about that Fantasia default huh I don't see any reason not to assume that domestic investors don't also eat a default. I don't think the US cares about them except for some class solidarity among the ultra wealthy. More to the point, the dollar is having a bad time after all that money printing they promised wouldn't cause any trouble. All this "transitionary" inflation is taking a lot longer to clear up than assumed.
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Oct 7, 2021 06:58
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USDCNY has remained basically stable since the start of 2021, I don't know if you have something else in mind anyway PRC domestic investors are mostly domestic state governments and state banks so certainly the PRC government has to care! insofar as the tide of real estate investment was predicated on growth that is now acknowledged to not materialize in the future, someone is going to have to eat losses; the only question is who https://twitter.com/EliDFriedman/status/1444038030449332226?s=20 ronya fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 07:13
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ronya posted:USDCNY has remained basically stable since the start of 2021, Yes, that is the problem. First they told us that printing all that money wouldn't cause any inflation because only a tiny fraction of it went to workers. Then the inflation hit and they said that it was only temporary. Now the inflation has remained "stable", as you put it, and the new line is that it will go away with Covid because *waves arms around* which is ridiculous because the Covid shutdowns are basically over already in the US. So the idea that these same people who were wrong about everything every step of the way have some sort of authority to tell anyone how to run an economy is kinda silly.
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Oct 7, 2021 15:15
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Yes, that is the problem. Yeah you ain’t wrong about that.
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Oct 7, 2021 16:03
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I don't think they where wrong. They just lie to people. I think sometimes is their job to lie to people to do things like avoid poping a bubble.
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Oct 7, 2021 17:36
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Tei posted:I don't think they where wrong. They just lie to people.
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Oct 7, 2021 18:11
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Rent-A-Cop posted:A distinction without a difference. You don't want a idiot or a evil person driving the car. But given the choice the evil person is better, probably is not going to crash the car with him inside, is evil not stupid.
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Oct 7, 2021 18:31
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Tei posted:You don't want a idiot or a evil person driving the car. But given the choice the evil person is better, probably is not going to crash the car with him inside, is evil not stupid. They might if they know their seatbelt and airbag work but your safety equipment doesn’t!
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Oct 7, 2021 18:33
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MarcusSA posted:They might if they know their seatbelt and airbag work but your safety equipment doesn’t! You have a point here, but they may still need a reason to want to crash, and generally is not a smart move, you don't know how the crash can end, maybe you end stabbed by a vehicle part.
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Oct 7, 2021 19:22
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Bathtub Cheese posted:For the good of humanity, Taiwan should surrender immediately if China invades. Any escalation would be catastrophic for the entire world - the already fragile supply chains would completely break down and financial markets would be upended within days. Breathtaking. The highlight of all this insanity. An argument, in all sincerity (?), to prefer that others surrender their sovereignty and self-rule immediately to an invader, at convenience ... to protect line go up
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Oct 7, 2021 21:07
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Kavros posted:Breathtaking. The highlight of all this insanity. It's China's land and Taiwan's continued existence is an abrogation of China's sovereignty and self-rule. Taiwan exists only because the oppressor nations that had robbed China for the preceding century needed an unsinkable aircraft carrier off the shore of China in case the Cold War went hot. Capitalist crises hit the working class disproportionately hard. You don't want to see what "line go down" means for everyone else in the world when trans-pacific shipping gets even more hosed up than it is now.
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Oct 7, 2021 21:42
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Clarste posted:If your argument is that the CCP is the legitimate government of China because they won a war, then by that exact same logic Taiwan does not belong to them because they never managed to conquer it during that same war. CCP is the legitimate government of China because they refused to compromise their sovereignty to appease the colonial looters that destroyed the Qing dynasty after the CCP took power in 1949.
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Oct 7, 2021 21:47
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Capitalist crises hit the working class disproportionately hard. You don't want to see what "line go down" means for everyone else in the world when trans-pacific shipping gets even more hosed up than it is now. As you helpfully demonstrate, "Anti-imperialist" arguments have this tendency to pull out the slide rules and obscurantist rulebooks and run on the pitch to argue that imperialism is, of course, allowed for this autocracy and is correct and good. But the innovation I like is that you have merged standard "anti-imperialism" with that you have to protect the markets, because if capitalist trade is negatively impacted by a belligerent hot war that hurts the workers, the solution is to defend capitalist markets from a capitalist crisis Shall we follow the trend and call that "anti-capitalist"
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Oct 7, 2021 22:06
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Bathtub Cheese posted:It's China's land and Taiwan's continued existence is an abrogation of China's sovereignty and self-rule. Taiwan exists only because the oppressor nations that had robbed China for the preceding century needed an unsinkable aircraft carrier off the shore of China in case the Cold War went hot. what about the people who actually live in Taiwan, who demonstrably want no part of the CCP's nonsense
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Oct 7, 2021 22:11
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:what about the people who actually live in Taiwan, who demonstrably want no part of the CCP's nonsense This is the bit where you get told that democracy is not a real expression of popular will (because it never produces results the OP wants) and that the Taiwanese people will rapidly come to accept the new order once all independent media gets banned and foreign agents and dissenters are sent to re-education camps.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:15
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Yo don't restart a convo with that 🤡 Bathtub Cheese, we don't want him coming back
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Oct 7, 2021 22:18
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:what about the people who actually live in Taiwan, who demonstrably want no part of the CCP's nonsense The rulebook clearly stipulates that how they came to desire it is invalid and thus they are subject to immediate military annexation regardless of the desire! If they had desired autonomy, they should have thought to structure the historical founding of their existing political entity in a way that allows them come to that desire through the appropriate means! Bloody taiwanese, I've no sympathy at all
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Oct 7, 2021 22:34
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Kavros posted:The rulebook clearly stipulates that how they came to desire it is invalid and thus they are subject to immediate military annexation regardless of the desire! I'm reminded of one of my favorite quotes, "Marxism does not acknowledge the importance of the individual in history." You can still hear the slap of that rake echoing a hundred years later and it is the funniest loving thing.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:57
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Kavros posted:As you helpfully demonstrate, "Anti-imperialist" arguments have this tendency to pull out the slide rules and obscurantist rulebooks and run on the pitch to argue that imperialism is, of course, allowed for this autocracy and is correct and good. It's simple pragmatism. I don't uphold "anti-capitalism" as an abstract principle over and above what's actually happening in the world. To put it in terms familiar to liberals such as you, it is the "lesser evil". Plastic_Gargoyle posted:what about the people who actually live in Taiwan, who demonstrably want no part of the CCP's nonsense The rest of the people living on Chinese land seem to think otherwise, unless you think secessionist movements are legitimate on the sheer basis of popular support. That would put you in the pro-neo-Confederate camp. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Bathtub Cheese fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 22:58
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Bathtub Cheese posted:That would put you in the pro-Confederate camp. Oh come on now.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:58
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MarcusSA posted:Oh come on now. Surely you wouldn't deny Texans the right to secede after decades of Russian propaganda and material support.
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Oct 7, 2021 23:03
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Kavros posted:The rulebook clearly stipulates that how they came to desire it is invalid and thus they are subject to immediate military annexation regardless of the desire! Yeah, Zionism is also "cool and good" by your reckoning. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Bathtub Cheese fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 23:06
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Yeah, Zionism is also "cool and good" by your reckoning. Who are the Palestinians being oppressed in this case? The Qing empire dispossessed the native peoples of their land when they settled the area, shouldn't we just kick all the Han out and not let any of them back in and let the native people make their own country? E: grammar America Inc. fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 23:27
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no hay camino posted:Who are the Palestinians being oppressed in this case? The Chinese, who had their land stolen by Western imperialists. no hay camino posted:The Qing empire dispossessed the native peoples of their land when they settled the area, shouldn't we just kick all the Han out and not let any of them back in and let the native people make their own country? Irrelevant. That's not a "problem" America or pro-US clique in charge of Taiwan has any right to address regardless. The KMT was only able to take over the island because White imperialism enabled them. China's record on ethnic minorities is better than Europe and the US's (the people who make Taiwan a reality) anyway and that's saying something.
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Oct 7, 2021 23:52
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Holy loving poo poo, I know the thread is about China but comparing Taiwan to a Slaver traitor state is pretty loving awful. Gonna be clear, that's not gonna fly.
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Oct 7, 2021 23:56
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Like comparing Taiwan to Palestine makes about as much sense as saying that Turkey actually has the right to Israel and Palestine because the European powers took their rightful territory as the Ottoman Empire. I'm sure there's a lot of Turkish people who want the Ottoman Empire back but their opinion is worth jack and poo poo in regard to Israel-Palestine. Would a new Ottoman Empire help against American imperialism? It's the "lesser of two evils" imperialism right?
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Oct 7, 2021 23:56
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Yeah I don't know how you go "You imperialist dogs!" and then argue that taking a country that's been independant for 70+ years and shoving it under China's control isn't also Imperialism/Colonialism. Its a pretty hosed up take. This isn't like the collapse of South Vietnam or anything, its not just another puppet state.
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 00:03
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CommieGIR posted:Holy loving poo poo, I know the thread is about China but comparing Taiwan to a Slaver traitor state is pretty loving awful. Gonna be clear, that's not gonna fly. If the comparison made any sense it would be ok in my book, but it doesn't, it's just inflammatory for the sake of it. There is no oppressed underclass of people that need saving by the oh-so benevolent Chinese government. I mean who the gently caress looks at Xinjiang and then thinks China would leave the Taiwanese better off than they were before? BTW, invading Tibet was cool because the native people are better off but the KMT having popular support from native people now means nothing. Just say "I want China to rule the world and kill all the capitalist western pig dogs" and leave it at, you don't need to make up all this other stupid horseshit.
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Oct 8, 2021 00:18
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah I don't know how you go "You imperialist dogs!" and then argue that taking a country that's been independant for 70+ years and shoving it under China's control isn't also Imperialism/Colonialism. Its a pretty hosed up take. This isn't like the collapse of South Vietnam or anything, its not just another puppet state. Sir, I think you misunderstand. The US has done bad things, don't you know? Therefore every individual of every state that has anything but overtly hostile relations with the US literally deserves subjugation or death. You're sounding an awful lot like a neo-confederate by saying people have a right to self determination...
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Oct 8, 2021 00:19
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Arguing that secession is automatically bad in all cases because the person who has established the most recent actionable military claim deserves the land more is a take so brain-wormed that it's almost impossible to follow to its premises. If you're at all ideologically consistent it forces you to condemn any state that successfully revolts against an imperial master, and nod approvingly at Reagan sending marines to Grenada, etc.
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Oct 8, 2021 00:20
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lol-ing at bathtub cheese being the same guy who got a month+ban for making that thread in QCS alleging that the mods were conspiring on discord to target and ban chinese posters and just completely making GBS threads the bed when asked to provide evidence and also how the posters he cited as examples were FURIOUSLY MASTURBATING TO ANIME TIDDIES redtext guy and peven stan
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Oct 8, 2021 00:35
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Everyone keep your pants on, ain't nobody invading Taiwan. This whole bullshit is just the contracting American empire and the rising Chinese flexing at each other. Also, calling the PRC "imperialist" doesn't really make sense even if it might be technically correct. "Empire" is usually used to describe a violently expanding power utilizing a perpetual state of warfare, puppet states, military bases on foreign soil, espionage, etc. to seize foreign resources for their own gain. For the most part, the PRC doesn't really do this stuff, at least not with the same regular pattern of expansion that empires normally take. For example, they didn't spend decades colonizing India or trafficking slaves across the ocean or installing dictators all across the globe. That's not to say they haven't done a few of those things, but that's not the pattern and it's largely not how China spreads its influence. The PRC's expanding power has been mostly a result of commodity production not violence. The reason that no EU nation joined the little Boaters for Trump parade that the US and pals held in the South China sea isn't because they feared Chinese military power or that the Chinese launched a coup within the French government, but rather that they didn't want to risk being cut off of cheap Chinese goods. And sure, you can claim that economic influence can itself be violent, but China ain't starving anyone abroad. They make iphones and car parts. That's not to say they don't do lovely stuff, but that's a whole different classification. For example, locking up the Uighur people isn't imperialism, it's oppressing a domestic ethnic minority and it's a very bad thing to do and they should stop it. And that's a pretty important distinction to make because of how the classification of empire is used to analyze capitalist powers. Capitalism necessarily evolves towards imperialism, and the fact that China has not yet done so speaks to how their economic system fundamentally differs from capitalism. For example, their Belt and Road initiative is completely different from the American Shock and Awe tactic, yet both are meant to accomplish the same goal of expanding their access to foreign resources. However, the way in which they accomplish that goal is the difference between war and prosperity for the people who are subjected to it. But who knows? Maybe tomorrow it will try to invade Vietnam (again), or install a puppet regime in Taiwan. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 03:41
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He was comparing them to the Confederacy. And yeah I don't think China is invading Taiwan anytime soon, but I don't think its fair to pretend they also don't seek to be a world power including some Imperial style programs like expansion of territory and influence.
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Oct 8, 2021 03:43
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Edit: whoops, nvm.
Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 03:49
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Cpt_Obvious posted:it's oppressing a domestic ethnic minority and it's a very bad thing to do and they should stop it. The holocaust: a very bad thing
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Oct 8, 2021 05:29
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CommieGIR posted:He was comparing them to the Confederacy. And yeah I don't think China is invading Taiwan anytime soon, but I don't think its fair to pretend they also don't seek to be a world power including some Imperial style programs like expansion of territory and influence. I was saying that if all it takes to legitimize secession is that a simple majority of the population agrees that it is now independent, regardless of any other circumstances, then what would prevent a hypothetical Texas from seceding from the rest of the United States under the influence of foreign powers to undermine the US’s sovereignty. I’m sure you could find more than a few deep red counties in the United States already that would take you up on an offer of secession, especially if you packaged it as a revival of the confederacy. I apologize if I was unclear but that does not merit giving me a six hour probation over a simple disagreement. You are accusing me of something I never said as are several other posters because I do not agree with the thread consensus. It seems everyone else can express their distaste for my point of view but if I engage in the same rhetorical tactics my posts face exceptional levels of scrutiny. For people who fetishize so-called an “open societies” you sure are quick to engage in intellectual dishonesty when it serves your own desire to police the discourse. That said, Taiwan does have an exceptionally (for a “democracy”) serious problem with politically-connected organized crime engaging in human trafficking so if I were to HYPOTHETICALLY make an analogy between Taiwan and the antebellum American south that would be the place to start. Bathtub Cheese fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 06:14
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Taiwan is not the only rickety democracy in the world, but I don't see what that fact adds to the conversation even a tiny bit. EDIT: Bathtub Cheese posted:For the good of humanity, Taiwan should surrender immediately if China invades. Any escalation would be catastrophic for the entire world - the already fragile supply chains would completely break down and financial markets would be upended within days. It would be morally monstrous to try to encourage the rest of the world to get dragged down with Taiwan into a war over some god drat islands in the SCS. Taiwan is China's land anyway. What 40 million people want is immaterial when the remaining 7 billion would face a global depression on an unprecedented scale. Yes, letting imperial powers wantonly annex smaller nation-states out of a fear of conflict has never had any dire consequences for the world. What could go wrong, appeasement all the way. 
MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 06:22
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Bathtub Cheese posted:I was saying that if all it takes to legitimize secession is that a simple majority of the population agrees that it is now independent, regardless of any other circumstances, Nobody was proposing this. Don't engage in strawmanning. quote:You are accusing me of something I never said as are several other posters because I do not agree with the thread consensus. It seems everyone else can express their distaste for my point of view but if I engage in the same rhetorical tactics my posts face exceptional levels of scrutiny. For people who fetishize so-called an “open societies” you sure are quick to engage in intellectual dishonesty when it serves your own desire to police the discourse. The reason for your probation is listed on your rapsheet. There's no need to fabricate a conspiracy to justify yourself.
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Oct 8, 2021 06:31
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Bathtub Cheese posted:That said, Taiwan does have an exceptionally (for a “democracy”) serious problem with politically-connected organized crime engaging in human trafficking so if I were to HYPOTHETICALLY make an analogy between Taiwan and the antebellum American south that would be the place to start. If only there were a closer comparison for this analogy, like somewhere with large-scale, state-imposed forced labor of an ethnic minority, perhaps many engaged in cotton picking... 
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