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fart simpson)
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je1 healthcare posted:GB detainees at least get to talk to lawyers and international journalists. wut
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Oct 8, 2021 22:19
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| # ? May 25, 2024 20:33 |
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staticman posted:Not only are there dozens of other US black sites in the world as others have pointed out, there's quite a few black sites domestically, doing all kinds of "fun, thrilling" tortures upon American citizens. *cough* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square-chicago-police-disappeared-thousands quote:Police “disappeared” more than 7,000 people at an off-the-books interrogation warehouse in Chicago, nearly twice as many detentions as previously disclosed, the Guardian can now reveal. And still operating https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/7/24/21337773/chicago-police-defind-homan-square-rally-community-social-services quote:Mark Clements was tortured at a Chicago police station as a teenager and forced to admit to a quadruple murder. And it's only 1 part of 1 city within 1 small part of the historical record. The USA prison industrial complex has always been its own mass torture program.
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Oct 8, 2021 22:23
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Everything in GB is done in a closed military court. Lawyers have complained many many times that they can't even contact their clients and abuses done to their clients. On top of all this anyone watching has to watch the proceedings in a room with a feed that has a delay. The delay is so the government can senor anything they deem sensitive so who knows what they are even getting.
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Oct 8, 2021 22:23
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je1 healthcare posted:, GB detainees at least get to talk to lawyers and international journalists. Xinjiang detainees do not, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKue4WuagL8&t=18s indigi posted:it sucks cause I’m concerned about any sort of mass incarceration even supposing good intentions and am sure there are abuses going on but everyone who complains about it sounds like he healthcare and that’s terrible while it is understandable and laudable to be against mass incarceration, and while im sure not everything that goes on in the education and training facilities is on the up and up, remember that until the program was instituted there were regular, deadly attacks on civilians, which immediately stopped once deradicalization efforts were put into place. the whole mess is because the CIA has been funding the East Turkmenistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) to inspire those attacks in the first place in an attempt to destabilize the region and gently caress with an important trading hub for China, and oh-so-weirdly it became a """"genocide"""" soon after massive oil fields were discovered in xinjiang. good thing the USA does not have a clear pattern of behavior and track record on this kind of thing. this is also why facebook is banned in china, btw, was because ETIM was coordinating terrorist attacks that killed people using facebook and facebook FOR SOME MYSTERIOUS REASON refused to do anything about it. in other words its a mess the US caused and that the CPC is trying to clean up as humanely as possible. they identified that the things that make people susceptible to radicalization are a lack of economic opportunity, alienation from their local community, and often just straight up ignorance of the law. the training centers are there to solve those problems, many or most of which are really only M-F 9-5 affairs where people in them go home to their family at least for the weekend if not every night, and again, there have been no deadly attacks in the region since the program has been underway. it sucks that you do have to have mandatory attendance, and for some people, detainment, to deradicalize them against the US' bullshit, but the PRC very clearly is doing everything they or anyone knows how to do to make it as humane and focused on helping their own citizens thrive as possible
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Oct 8, 2021 22:29
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^^e: oh I know it’s largely the fault of the US/allies and in response to continual terror attacks. I just worry cause in a situation where tens of thousands of people are getting brought in there’s gonna be a lot of innocents who get scooped up as well (even if it’s a tiny percentage proportionally) and while they may have recourse I haven’t heard about it (possibly due to awful English language media) any time a pig dies for any reason it’s good indigi has issued a correction as of 22:35 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 22:31
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indigi posted:^^e: oh I know it’s largely the fault of the US/allies and in response to continual terror attacks. I just worry cause in a situation where tens of thousands of people are getting brought in there’s gonna be a lot of innocents who get scooped up as well (even if it’s a tiny percentage proportionally) and while they may have recourse I haven’t heard about it (possibly due to awful English language media) yeah like i mean, one of the reasons i would argue its not a human rights violation is that even though im sure plenty of marginal people who probably would never do an attack have gone through or otherwise been swept up in the program, it's vocational training and education on the law and chinese language and things that improve the lives of people who go through it. the prc's courts are arguably the best on the planet, and actually will hear people out, and rule in their favor, if they are mistreated in any way, especially at a government facility. so keep in mind that even i am working on western assumptions here i.e. that when you make people guards they can mistreat people with no consequence as the judiciary and fellow pigs will cover for them, but that's like... not really how things work there. if you're mistreated, you have recourse, you don't need to be a millionaire to get a lawyer to represent you well like in the US, and there are multiple layers of judicial review to appeal to if despite all this the proceedings are shady anyway. also they're teaching people in these centers about chinese law so they are probably telling them this!
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Oct 8, 2021 22:44
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hot witch divorcee posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKue4WuagL8&t=18s Oh hey, did the Chinese government ever present evidence of the attacks in Xinjiang having any ties to the CIA? Seems like something they would have done, at least in their state media reports about the attacks. It also seems counter-productive for the US government to be funding the ETIM while at the same time sending ETIM members to Guantanamo and bombing their training camps as of just a few years ago. Did the CIA not tell them? Wouldn't be first time It's probably worth pointing out that China continues to experience regular mass-stabbings attacks against civilians in every other region outside of Xinjiang. Of course none of the Han attackers ever get designated as terrorists that require re-educating the population. Those mass-killings were due to mental illness, which I swear I've heard that excuse before. And Facebook doesn't do anything about domestic US terrorists coordinating on their network either, it's not so mysterious why they failed to moderate a decade ago. hot witch divorcee posted:in other words its a mess the US caused and that the CPC is trying to clean up as humanely as possible. they identified that the things that make people susceptible to radicalization are a lack of economic opportunity, alienation from their local community, and often just straight up ignorance of the law. Which explains why a number Uyghur business owners, politicians, academics, and other gainfully employed members of the community have been detained without charge. Maybe their friends and families are all lying, who knows. What's their legal resource? Because they can't seem to get proof of life, let alone an appeal hearing or a court date.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:10
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hoopleheaded drivel
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Oct 8, 2021 23:16
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get back in your locker, nerd https://twitter.com/NEDemocracy/status/1337063301113581568
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Oct 8, 2021 23:21
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p.s. facebook should be banned in the us, too. also altogether.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:22
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je1 healthcare posted:It's probably worth pointing out that China continues to experience regular mass-stabbings attacks against civilians the source the poster gave here lists 7 stabbing attacks in the last 3 years. For a total of 17 fatalities and 151 injured. For a nation of 1.4 billion people.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:22
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je1 healthcare posted:Oh hey, did the Chinese government ever present evidence of the attacks in Xinjiang having any ties to the CIA? Seems like something they would have done, at least in their state media reports about the attacks. It also seems counter-productive for the US government to be funding the ETIM while at the same time sending ETIM members to Guantanamo and bombing their training camps as of just a few years ago. Did the CIA not tell them? Wouldn't be first time a lot of etim funding comes from al qaeda who have been getting US money for forever with a short interruption around the turn of the century that was resumed within a decade in Afghanistan Syria and Yemen
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Oct 8, 2021 23:24
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je1 healthcare posted:Oh hey, did the Chinese government ever present evidence of the attacks in Xinjiang having any ties to the CIA? Seems like something they would have done, at least in their state media reports about the attacks. It also seems counter-productive for the US government to be funding the ETIM while at the same time sending ETIM members to Guantanamo and bombing their training camps as of just a few years ago. Did the CIA not tell them? Wouldn't be first time the ETIM was extremely open about why the stabbings happened and it was not mental illness (nice scare quotes though) Like, these are objective historical events, both sides agree they happened, coming in all 'do you have any proof this happened' is some true desperation poo poo. Like, is the plan here really to go 'the ETIM doesn't exist'?
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Oct 8, 2021 23:25
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listen to the uyghur people!! https://www.qiaocollective.com/xinjiang-responds uhh no not those ones.. i mean the ones in washington and virginia....
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Oct 8, 2021 23:30
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hot witch divorcee posted:get back in your locker, nerd Nice tweet, but have any of the groups listed here been connected to a single attack? Or are we just assuming everything with "Uyghur" in the title is a terrorist organization? sexpig by night posted:
Obviously not, because like I just said the US was bombing them just two years ago, with the CCP's encouragement.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:32
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je1 healthcare posted:Nice tweet, but have any of the groups listed here been connected to a single attack? Or are we just assuming everything with "Uyghur" in the title is a terrorist organization? you're a loving idiot. you'd think some of the semen you're sucking out of uncle sam's dick would bestow upon you some basic knowledge of what its own agencies are and what they do.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:35
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je1 healthcare posted:Nice tweet, but have any of the groups listed here been connected to a single attack? Or are we just assuming everything with "Uyghur" in the title is a terrorist organization?. Oh my god you're so stupid.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:37
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You, a CIA developed brain in a jar - gapes for USA and Obama cronies while trying to manifest a reality where Muslim minorities are getting genocided in China Me, a verdant and spry young student of Xi Jinping - upholds Marxism-Leninism-Mao-Xi Jinping thought through posting and rejoices in being able to breathe air outside of a soy vat made for CIA brains
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Oct 8, 2021 23:51
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This man is clearly suffering from Havana Syndrome. I will make a donation in his name.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:53
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je1 healthcare posted:Nice tweet, but have any of the groups listed here been connected to a single attack? Or are we just assuming everything with "Uyghur" in the title is a terrorist organization?  OhFunny posted:Afghanistan: Dozens killed in suicide bombing at Kunduz mosque lol
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Oct 9, 2021 00:18
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hot witch divorcee posted:you're a loving idiot. you'd think some of the semen you're sucking out of uncle sam's dick would bestow upon you some basic knowledge of what its own agencies are and what they do. I take it that's a "no"
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Oct 9, 2021 00:39
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je1 healthcare posted:I´d love to raise heck about Abu Gharaib, but the officers and leaders responsible were arrested and prosecuted years before I had an account. so we can't question the official US empire narrative on china without being labeled as a "genocide denier" or whatever but this bowlheaded moron can just spit this psycho garbage out freely
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Oct 9, 2021 00:40
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je1 healthcare posted:I take it that's a "no" how do you expect us to stop china from doing the things you claim they are doing what is the logical next step in your little fantasy freak world?
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Oct 9, 2021 00:50
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Goast posted:how do you expect us to stop china from doing the things you claim they are doing Maybe tolerating a free press, in addition to establishing an independent and transparent legal system? Fantasy freakworld stuff. I'm sorry if someone called you a "genocide denier" at some point, but there's no lack of vitriol being sent my way either. It's not a big deal.
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Oct 9, 2021 00:55
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While we're on the topic, thanks for all the xinjiang resources from a few months ago. Took a while to get through, but it helped contextualize things. Arguing over 'who does it worse' is besides the point, imo. To me the heart of it is a question about how society handles assimilation. Its clear the vocational programs are there to reeducate, as the entire point is to eradicate poverty, retrain, and assimilate a colossal amount of people. These programs have been running for over a decade, have been largely successful (sometimes indirectly supported by the west) and aren't unique to the Uyghur population. How should societies handle mass assimilation? To what extent should a dominant society change the way smaller groups act or think? How should the actions of minority groups that go against societal interests be restricted or changed (reproductive rights, women's rights, rights to education, etc)? This is where the conversation is imo. Certainly it's good to be critical about how exactly China approaches them, but even in a world where it did things perfectly, there would still be debate as these questions are moral ones with as many answers as people.
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Oct 9, 2021 00:55
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je1 healthcare posted:Maybe tolerating a free press, in addition to establishing an independent and transparent legal system? how do you expect this to happen in china currently as in, how do you think anyone outside of china is going to coerce the chinese government and people to adopt your liberal ideals and sanctify them as rights
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Oct 9, 2021 00:56
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je1 healthcare posted:Maybe tolerating a free press, in addition to establishing an independent and transparent legal system? Fantasy freakworld stuff. Are you using the US as a model for those things here
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Oct 9, 2021 00:57
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china should establish a legal system independent of itself?
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Oct 9, 2021 00:58
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BULBASAUR posted:While we're on the topic, thanks for all the xinjiang resources from a few months ago. Took a while to get through, but it helped contextualize things. It's really hard for some people especially Americans to believe that not every country in the world as as evil as us.
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Oct 9, 2021 01:00
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genocide is just what every country does when it gets big enough. i know this because i'm actually super smart politic person.
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Oct 9, 2021 01:15
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:genocide is just what every country does when it gets big enough. i know this because i'm actually super smart politic person. To be fair this is most of western history lol
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Oct 9, 2021 01:19
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lol a free press has never existed in human history
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Oct 9, 2021 01:23
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are serbia/croatia big countries now 
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Oct 9, 2021 01:23
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serbia was one of the prime movers of european history for like 100 years, yeah
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Oct 9, 2021 01:25
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lol a free press has never existed in human history Ah yes, the "ideal" of doing anything you want as long as you can't materially challenge the yoke of the capitalist oligarchy. Wonder why the Chinese isn't so hot about it lmao shitlibs are the dumbest holier-than-thou smug motherfuckers on the planet
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Oct 9, 2021 01:48
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the freest and most independent press would simply descend from heaven on a winged chariot each morning to deliver the News
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Oct 9, 2021 01:50
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remember when fox new's geraldo got expelled from iraq for drawing the shittiest map ever in the sand
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Oct 9, 2021 01:55
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Lol we are like 2 years away some CIA linked document about how we back ISIL and ETIM, then some people being completely ok with it for “reasons”
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Oct 9, 2021 02:08
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Free press that publishes monthly Adrian Zenz reports? Free press that only reports missing white women?
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Oct 9, 2021 02:22
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Press so free that they just make poo poo up. Journalists might be the only people in society worse than cops.
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Oct 9, 2021 02:23
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